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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 27, 2022 14:44:20 GMT
Lots of rumors of a number of Tory defections to labour.
Starmer has positioned himself to take the vote in places like stoke basically by being an old fashioned Tory i.e not backing public sector workers, not really having any principles.
So looks like we might get a general election a lot sooner than we thought
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 27, 2022 15:08:41 GMT
Neither do you if you think the Ukraine war and the last 2 years of "Pandemic" have nothing to do with the current state what as the pandemic and the Ukraine war got to do with inflation It's basic supply and demand, when you shut down the world economy on and off for 2 years, killing demand in certain cases, those businesses affected adjust the supply, now demand is returning but guess what supply is more difficult to upscale so businesses increase the price to sell products to make the most profit. Add in 20 years of following insane green policies along with the impact of fuel and energy costs and its going to be bumpy for a good few months.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 27, 2022 15:32:20 GMT
How come inflation has shot up before any pay rises have been awarded then? Do yourself a favour, do some research. You have heard of the war in Ukraine and the fact that we have been in a "Pandemic"? I agree Ukraine and Pandemic are indeed obvious factors driving inflation but you conveniently ignore the other equally important factors Exchange rates are a measure of how Internationally a Countries Currency/Economy is viewed Since Brexit Sterling has devalued about 20% against US$ and Euro about 12% Ukraine War has pushed up Energy Prices which are mostly traded in US$ a weak Sterling has exacerbated the problem in UK pushing up prices Coronavirus has disrupted JIT supply chains from ROW pushing up Industries cost and product availability Brexit has disrupted JIT supply chains from EU as well as increasing non Tarrif Trade logistic export costs to UK A weaker £ have increased the cost of Imports also increasing prices to consumers
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 15:40:03 GMT
Or by hardworking people struggling to make ends meet... The majority of people currently are struggling, increasing everyone's wages will increase cost of goods and services which in turn causes people to struggle surely? Do you think a pay rise equal to inflation would help a struggling family less or more than a pay cut in real terms? City bonuses are extremely high at the moment. The government isn’t concerned by that impacting inflation. The government is increasing pensions by inflation, but the government aren’t concerned with that being inflationary. Why is paying a nurse, a train cleaner, a teacher a bit more when they have had massive pay cuts over the last 12 years so bad for inflation when the above examples aren’t? Clue: nurses, teachers and train cleaners don’t vote Tory. Fat cats in the city and pensioners tend to.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 15:40:37 GMT
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jun 27, 2022 15:43:06 GMT
what as the pandemic and the Ukraine war got to do with inflation It's basic supply and demand, when you shut down the world economy on and off for 2 years, killing demand in certain cases, those businesses affected adjust the supply, now demand is returning but guess what supply is more difficult to upscale so businesses increase the price to sell products to make the most profit. Add in 20 years of following insane green policies along with the impact of fuel and energy costs and its going to be bumpy for a good few months. Are green policies to blame for fuel prices? I think there's a case that the green sources have helped in some way against the sanctions. Also it looks like many countries outside of Europe are ignoring the calls for green energy and are resorting to coal, I'm sure the price of coal has quadrupled which could indicate an increase in demand.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 27, 2022 15:45:27 GMT
You know nothing about the root cause of inflation mate. Neither do you if you think the Ukraine war and the last 2 years of "Pandemic" have nothing to do with the current state The biggest 350 companies in the UK have seen a 70% rise in their profits since the Covid outbreak, don't fall for the narrative that wages are driving up inflation as it's quite frankly nonsense......
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 15:46:31 GMT
No, the article, in short, says it is, but the extent of the negative impact of brexit on inflation is hard to precisely judge. The one economist who doesn’t think brexit has a major impact still says the political turmoil and endless uncertainty caused by brexit has led to firms putting investment on hold, which has increased inflation. So even the brexiteer economist in the article says brexit has made inflation worse.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 15:48:20 GMT
It's basic supply and demand, when you shut down the world economy on and off for 2 years, killing demand in certain cases, those businesses affected adjust the supply, now demand is returning but guess what supply is more difficult to upscale so businesses increase the price to sell products to make the most profit. Add in 20 years of following insane green policies along with the impact of fuel and energy costs and its going to be bumpy for a good few months. Are green policies to blame for fuel prices? I think there's a case that the green sources have helped in some way against the sanctions. Also it looks like many countries outside of Europe are ignoring the calls for green energy and are resorting to coal, I'm sure the price of coal has quadrupled which could indicate an increase in demand. If we got 80 or 90% of our energy from wind, sun, nuclear and waves as we should be, we wouldn’t have nearly such high inflation.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 15:49:41 GMT
Neither do you if you think the Ukraine war and the last 2 years of "Pandemic" have nothing to do with the current state The biggest 350 companies in the UK have seen a 70% rise in their profits since the Covid outbreak, don't fall for the narrative that wages are driving up inflation as it's quite frankly nonsense...... If you actually stopped and thought about it, why on earth would it? As you say, makes no sense whatsoever.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 16:28:53 GMT
No, the article, in short, says it is, but the extent of the negative impact of brexit on inflation is hard to precisely judge. The one economist who doesn’t think brexit has a major impact still says the political turmoil and endless uncertainty caused by brexit has led to firms putting investment on hold, which has increased inflation. So even the brexiteer economist in the article says brexit has made inflation worse. No he doesn’t.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 27, 2022 16:33:30 GMT
Are green policies to blame for fuel prices? I think there's a case that the green sources have helped in some way against the sanctions. Also it looks like many countries outside of Europe are ignoring the calls for green energy and are resorting to coal, I'm sure the price of coal has quadrupled which could indicate an increase in demand. If we got 80 or 90% of our energy from wind, sun, nuclear and waves as we should be, we wouldn’t have nearly such high inflation. We agree oggy!!! France's inflation is much lower than the rest of Europe (except Malta). 70% of France's energy generation is nuclear, whereas Germany have only 3 nuclear plants left. So France has been largely protected from the massive rise in gas prices in terms of electricity generation. Macron* also instructed the government owned French power industry not to increase prices to French manufacturers last year, thereby keeping French manufacturing costs down. The link shows European inflation rates: www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/Note: The UK inflation rate is only marginally above the European mean, which would be higher but for France's low inflation. The UK inflation rose above many others in April due to raising the cap on UK energy prices. Many EU countries, including those using the Euro, have higher inflation that the UK. Many other governments have done more to temper inflation, such as greater reduced excise duty, than the UK government. Even without the gas price issue, other shortages due to the pandemic and war, and value of £ and € against $, it is clear that that the rising price of oil for the last 2 years is inflating the cost of everything. *https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/02/lower-inflation-better-jobs-in-france-la-vie-est-belle
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 16:38:42 GMT
No, the article, in short, says it is, but the extent of the negative impact of brexit on inflation is hard to precisely judge. The one economist who doesn’t think brexit has a major impact still says the political turmoil and endless uncertainty caused by brexit has led to firms putting investment on hold, which has increased inflation. So even the brexiteer economist in the article says brexit has made inflation worse. No he doesn’t. Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 17:08:53 GMT
Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article Read carefully what he says… It’s not Brexit it’s the handling of Brexit. There is a difference. A huge difference. But not a difference your pea sized brain can grasp it would appear.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:23:47 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 17:26:31 GMT
Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article Read carefully what he says… It’s not Brexit it’s the handling of Brexit. There is a difference. A huge difference. But not a difference your pea sized brain can grasp it would appear. Yes. And why are we handling brexit? Surely you understand that if we had remained in the EU we wouldn’t have had the chaos caused by brexit that the economist who is pro brexit says has added to our current economic problems! Even my pea sized brain knows that! All the other economists in the article rightly point to the devalued pound or increased costs for businesses as an example of how brexit has worsened inflation.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:29:12 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 17:29:57 GMT
Read carefully what he says… It’s not Brexit it’s the handling of Brexit. There is a difference. A huge difference. But not a difference your pea sized brain can grasp it would appear. Yes. And why are we handling brexit? Surely you understand that if we had remained in the EU we wouldn’t have had the chaos caused by brexit that the economist who is pro brexit says has added to our current economic problems! Even my pea sized brain knows that! All the other economists in the article rightly point to the devalued pound or increased costs for businesses as an example of how brexit has worsened inflation. It’s like blaming the car for a car crash. If you hadn’t got into the car you wouldn’t have had a crash. But, of course… It’s not the car’s fault, it’s how it was driven.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 27, 2022 17:31:39 GMT
Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article Once again oggy we agree!!! Lyons is correct. UK economic growth was in the toilet while we remained in the EU, particularly after Maastricht see link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyp/pn2The UK voted to leave which was then followed by Cameron resigning, government in-fighting for leadership, election of May who didn't believe in Brexit, procrastination over Article 50, establishment (peers, former PMs, Speaker, CBI, and most MPs) doing their best to undermine the will of the people, May called an election and lost her majority handing power to NI Unionists, more procrastination, Johnson elected leader, another GE - you couldn't make it all up! To cap all that, after 3 years time wasting while investors kept their hands in their pockets, waiting for the outcome. Johnson's resounding endorsement to "Get Brexit done" caused a rush of blood to his head and him rushing to a deal like a bull in a china shop. It is not Brexit per se that has caused problems, it is the incompetent British government and all those who have done everything they can to undermine Brexit.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:35:16 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 17:38:31 GMT
Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article Once again oggy we agree!!! Lyons is correct. UK economic growth was in the toilet while we remained in the EU, particularly after Maastricht see link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyp/pn2The UK voted to leave which was then followed by Cameron resigning, government in-fighting for leadership, election of May who didn't believe in Brexit, procrastination over Article 50, establishment (peers, former PMs, Speaker, CBI, and most MPs) doing their best to undermine the will of the people, May called an election and lost her majority handing power to NI Unionists, more procrastination, Johnson elected leader, another GE - you couldn't make it all up! To cap all that, after 3 years time wasting while investors kept their hands in their pockets, waiting for the outcome. Johnson's resounding endorsement to "Get Brexit done" caused a rush of blood to his head and him rushing to a deal like a bull in a china shop. It is not Brexit per se that has caused problems, it is the incompetent British government and all those who have done everything they can to undermine Brexit. Sorry, Coke, I don’t think we do agree. I was quoting the pro brexit economist from the article. I agree more with the other economists who point to increased costs to businesses because of added brexit red tape, a devalued pound because of brexit and the other inflationary impacts of brexit as some of the causes of our current inflation problems. Brexit has directly led to increased costs and higher inflation. The handling of it has made it even worse. Had we respected the will of the people and left the EU in the least disruptive way (which would have better respected the very slim majority in favour of leave) and joined the EEA, inflation would be much lower and our economy would have been far more robust in responding to the pandemic and the war compared with now. Instead, 6 years on, we are looking to rip up the deal we struck already!
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 17:42:43 GMT
Once again oggy we agree!!! Lyons is correct. UK economic growth was in the toilet while we remained in the EU, particularly after Maastricht see link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyp/pn2The UK voted to leave which was then followed by Cameron resigning, government in-fighting for leadership, election of May who didn't believe in Brexit, procrastination over Article 50, establishment (peers, former PMs, Speaker, CBI, and most MPs) doing their best to undermine the will of the people, May called an election and lost her majority handing power to NI Unionists, more procrastination, Johnson elected leader, another GE - you couldn't make it all up! To cap all that, after 3 years time wasting while investors kept their hands in their pockets, waiting for the outcome. Johnson's resounding endorsement to "Get Brexit done" caused a rush of blood to his head and him rushing to a deal like a bull in a china shop. It is not Brexit per se that has caused problems, it is the incompetent British government and all those who have done everything they can to undermine Brexit. Sorry, Coke, I don’t think we do agree. I was quoting the pro brexit economist from the article. I agree more with the other economists who point to increased costs to businesses because of added brexit red tape, a devalued pound because of brexit and the other inflationary impacts of brexit as some of the causes of our current inflation problems. Brexit has directly led to increased costs and higher inflation. The handling of it has made it even worse. Had we respected the will of the people and left the EU in the least disruptive way (which would have better respected the very slim majority in favour of leave) and joined the EEA, inflation would be much lower and our economy would have been far more robust in responding to the pandemic and the war compared with now. Instead, 6 years on, we are looking to rip up the deal we struck already! You were misrepresenting the pro Brexit economist. Get it right.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 27, 2022 17:45:20 GMT
I’m only looking on here to see if Johnathon Gullis has piped up again followed by Huddys new catchphrase “he’s my local MP, to my eternal shame”🤣
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:48:22 GMT
Jeez, don’t quote the article if you have not read it. It says: “Gerard Lyons, who was chief economic adviser to Boris Johnson as the mayor of London and one of the few economists to back Brexit, is much more sceptical of its role in inflation.” “Lyons does agree that the UK’s ability to cope with the factors driving inflation in Western economies is hampered by the policy decisions of the past: “The key year for the UK economy in recent decades is 2008.” Economic growth “plummeted in the aftermath of the 2008 global financial crisis and has remained low since – and that highlighted a whole host of issues, none of which would have been addressed or would likely be solved by staying in the EU.” “For Lyons, it is not Brexit that has held the UK back, but a failure to address the problems that dogged Britain’s economy – weak business investment and an over-reliance on loose monetary policy – while we were in the EU. The handling of Brexit has had an effect on confidence: “Whenever we’ve had a general election, or political turmoil, one of the key things is businesses quite naturally put things on hold… in 2016, we not only had a referendum, we then had a three-year political crisis… It’s hardly a surprise that many firms put their investment plans on hold.” So brexit caused uncertainty, which reduced investment, hampering economic growth, which reduces our ability to cope with the factors driving inflation. Without brexit uncertainty, our ability to deal woth inflation would be improved. And that’s from the most pro brexit economist from the article Once again oggy we agree!!! Lyons is correct. UK economic growth was in the toilet while we remained in the EU, particularly after Maastricht see link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/ihyp/pn2The UK voted to leave which was then followed by Cameron resigning, government in-fighting for leadership, election of May who didn't believe in Brexit, procrastination over Article 50, establishment (peers, former PMs, Speaker, CBI, and most MPs) doing their best to undermine the will of the people, May called an election and lost her majority handing power to NI Unionists, more procrastination, Johnson elected leader, another GE - you couldn't make it all up! To cap all that, after 3 years time wasting while investors kept their hands in their pockets, waiting for the outcome. Johnson's resounding endorsement to "Get Brexit done" caused a rush of blood to his head and him rushing to a deal like a bull in a china shop. It is not Brexit per se that has caused problems, it is the incompetent British government and all those who have done everything they can to undermine Brexit. There is so much wrong with this it's impossible to know where to start. 350 million a week for the NHS Cheaper Food To name but two...all lies. And now it's the fault of those "undermining brexit" according to you? It's your fucking mess mate. Own it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:48:49 GMT
I’m only looking on here to see if Johnathon Gullis has piped up again followed by Huddys new catchphrase “he’s my local MP, to my eternal shame”🤣 You got that right....
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:49:40 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 17:52:39 GMT
Sorry, Coke, I don’t think we do agree. I was quoting the pro brexit economist from the article. I agree more with the other economists who point to increased costs to businesses because of added brexit red tape, a devalued pound because of brexit and the other inflationary impacts of brexit as some of the causes of our current inflation problems. Brexit has directly led to increased costs and higher inflation. The handling of it has made it even worse. Had we respected the will of the people and left the EU in the least disruptive way (which would have better respected the very slim majority in favour of leave) and joined the EEA, inflation would be much lower and our economy would have been far more robust in responding to the pandemic and the war compared with now. Instead, 6 years on, we are looking to rip up the deal we struck already! You were misrepresenting the pro Brexit economist. Get it right. No I wasn’t. Why on earth would we have handled brexit the way we have over the last 6 years if we had voted to remain!? Without brexit, you don’t have to handle it the way we have. Brexit has damaged our economy. You were wrong. I was right. Get over it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 27, 2022 17:55:12 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 27, 2022 17:56:14 GMT
You were misrepresenting the pro Brexit economist. Get it right. No I wasn’t. Why on earth would we have handled brexit the way we have over the last 6 years if we had voted to remain!? Without brexit, you don’t have to handle it the way we have. Brexit has damaged our economy. You were wrong. I was right. Get over it. Without a car, you never have a car crash. Blame the car. Tell me, what colour is the sky on planet Stupid.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 27, 2022 17:58:45 GMT
No I wasn’t. Why on earth would we have handled brexit the way we have over the last 6 years if we had voted to remain!? Without brexit, you don’t have to handle it the way we have. Brexit has damaged our economy. You were wrong. I was right. Get over it. Without a car, you never have a car crash. Blame the car. Tell me, what colour is the sky on planet Stupid. You tell me. Without guns, we don’t have nearly the same amount of gun crime as the USA. Without cars, we would have no car crashes Without brexit, our economy would be far more able to deal with the inflationary problems it is facing
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