|
Post by yeokel on Jun 24, 2022 7:35:35 GMT
Starmer is a lame duck because he literally stands for nothing and the moment the Tories gain traction he’ll need to step his game up or move aside. Anyone with the ability to read data (see I can be a condescending bell end when I want to be as well) would understand Labour’s lead in the polls is built on Tory apathy. And for the 7th or 8th time I’m not sure how one faceless no mark commenting on an Internet forum is fucking up Labour’s chances you tedious tedious man….. Starmer needs to step up. But the Tories have an enormous jump up to make to avoid further humiliation and capitulation, let alone to win the next election. Fingers crossed Johnson clings to power and continues to destroy the worst thing about this country - the tory party. I don’t think Starmer is capable of stepping up. He has zero charisma and apparently no political message. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything. I wish it was different because I suspect the one thing you and I would agree on, Oggy, is we need to get rid of this PM and this government as soon as possible. But, sadly, Starmer is not the man to do it.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 7:37:16 GMT
On a related note, nice to see that appalling woman Jayda Fransen come a humiliating rock bottom in Wakefield with a pathetic 23 votes.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 7:38:02 GMT
A sensible and moderate candidate enables the Tories to climb up the polls. A sensible and moderate candidate leading the Labour party up the polls is a lame duck...go figure! I mean it may well happen anyway with the FPNs or at the next election but if Johnson stays you're going to have to work a lot harder to fuck up Labour's chances of getting elected, prestwich. You must be praying Johnson goes and they get someone more electable in to bugger it up for Starmer (and the country, but that's less important). Starmer is a lame duck because he literally stands for nothing and the moment the Tories gain traction he’ll need to step his game up or move aside. Anyone with the ability to read data (see I can be a condescending bell end when I want to be as well) would understand Labour’s lead in the polls is built on Tory apathy. And for the 7th or 8th time I’m not sure how one faceless no mark commenting on an Internet forum is fucking up Labour’s chances you tedious tedious man….. Labour will not win with Starmer in charge. End of.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 7:38:42 GMT
Blimey, last night's results really haven't gone down at all well. You should be pleased, it makes Bozo's departure and replacement by a sensible moderate candidate and Tory polling upturn much more likely. Alternatively, pray that Starmer gets his FPN and sticks to his promise to resign. Perhaps then Labour will elect a new leader you approve of to lead them to another glorious defeat. Last nights results were to be expected although I didn’t expect such a swing for the Lib Dems and I expected Labour to win more convincingly…..…. There we go, that's better, Labour under Starmer didn't do that well after all, you've got your mojo back!
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 7:38:57 GMT
Cold War Steve.....brilliant.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 7:39:34 GMT
Starmer needs to step up. But the Tories have an enormous jump up to make to avoid further humiliation and capitulation, let alone to win the next election. Fingers crossed Johnson clings to power and continues to destroy the worst thing about this country - the tory party. I don’t think Starmer is capable of stepping up. He has zero charisma and apparently no political message. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything. I wish it was different because I suspect the one thing you and I would agree on, Oggy, is we need to get rid of this PM and this government as soon as possible. But, sadly, Starmer is not the man to do it. Don't agree with you very often but I do here.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 24, 2022 7:40:06 GMT
Starmer is a lame duck because he literally stands for nothing and the moment the Tories gain traction he’ll need to step his game up or move aside. Anyone with the ability to read data (see I can be a condescending bell end when I want to be as well) would understand Labour’s lead in the polls is built on Tory apathy. And for the 7th or 8th time I’m not sure how one faceless no mark commenting on an Internet forum is fucking up Labour’s chances you tedious tedious man….. Starmer needs to step up. But the Tories have an enormous jump up to make to avoid further humiliation and capitulation, let alone to win the next election. Fingers crossed Johnson clings to power and continues to destroy the worst thing about this country - the tory party. There are three ways for Labour to get to power, one is for Johnson to overstay his welcome, the second is he goes but is replaced by Liz Truss/Dominic Raab or someone similar. The other is for all or some of the right wing billionaire press barons to declare their support for him. If it becomes a straight shoot out in terms of policy or personality Starmer will get trounced. He’s had a fairly easy ride so far other than a couple of weeks of pressure over the Durham beer “scandal” as well, God knows what he’ll do if they turn the heat up on him…….
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 7:41:38 GMT
Cold War Steve.....brilliant. Needs Carrie walking off with Zac Goldsmith in the background...!
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 7:41:51 GMT
Blimey, last night's results really haven't gone down at all well. You should be pleased, it makes Bozo's departure and replacement by a sensible moderate candidate and Tory polling upturn much more likely. Alternatively, pray that Starmer gets his FPN and sticks to his promise to resign. Perhaps then Labour will elect a new leader you approve of to lead them to another glorious defeat. Last nights results were to be expected although I didn’t expect such a swing for the Lib Dems and I expected Labour to win more convincingly…..….
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 24, 2022 7:52:03 GMT
Blimey, last night's results really haven't gone down at all well. You should be pleased, it makes Bozo's departure and replacement by a sensible moderate candidate and Tory polling upturn much more likely. Alternatively, pray that Starmer gets his FPN and sticks to his promise to resign. Perhaps then Labour will elect a new leader you approve of to lead them to another glorious defeat. Last nights results were to be expected although I didn’t expect such a swing for the Lib Dems and I expected Labour to win more convincingly…..…. The Wakefield victory was a guarantee - I was expecting the Tiverton one to be a lot closer. The promising thing is that Labour and the Lib Dems appeared to concentrate their forces efficiently on defeating the Tories, instead of taking votes from one another and allowing a Conservative victory through the backdoor. If that were to continue into a general election (a big 'if' at the moment I would say) then there is some hope of unseating this rancid version of the Tory party from power.
|
|
|
Post by 828492 on Jun 24, 2022 7:52:03 GMT
Cold War Steve.....brilliant. I hope that Mad Nad Dorries has her waterproof mascara on today, she will be shedding tears for Johnson. It is not all bad news for the Tory party. At least they have got rid of Dowden, an unpleasant blockage in the u-bend of politics.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 7:52:11 GMT
Starmer needs to step up. But the Tories have an enormous jump up to make to avoid further humiliation and capitulation, let alone to win the next election. Fingers crossed Johnson clings to power and continues to destroy the worst thing about this country - the tory party. There are three ways for Labour to get to power, one is for Johnson to overstay his welcome, the second is he goes but is replaced by Liz Truss/Dominic Raab or someone similar. The other is for all or some of the right wing billionaire press barons to declare their support for him. If it becomes a straight shoot out in terms of policy or personality Starmer will get trounced. He’s had a fairly easy ride so far other than a couple of weeks of pressure over the Durham beer “scandal” as well, God knows what he’ll do if they turn the heat up on him……. The only way the Labour Party will get elected in England, which is essentially a rightwing country these days, is by presenting a moderate, non-threatening, middle ground approach. The leader helps but only to a limited extent, primarily by not being too "left". If the Tory Press thinks the Labour Party and its leader are too "left" the full combined weight of the Tory Party, the supine press and business leaders will swing into action to destroy them. That's the nature of the political landscape in England in particular. I get that you hate Starmer and his version of the Labour Party, but what you want is never getting elected. You need to realise that. So you have to decide which is worse, the Conservative party remaining in power or Starmer's labour?
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 24, 2022 7:55:34 GMT
Last nights results were to be expected although I didn’t expect such a swing for the Lib Dems and I expected Labour to win more convincingly…..…. There we go, that's better, Labour under Starmer didn't do that well after all, you've got your mojo back! When there’s evidence to suggest that Tories are returning to vote for Labour rather than just choosing not to vote then I’ll think Labour have half a chance. That’s my analysis as I sit here now, that and the fact that Starmer as a leader is a waste of space (so far)…….
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jun 24, 2022 7:57:57 GMT
I agree. There are millions of knypes and followyoudowns around who appear to care only that their side are in power, not what happens to the country and its people when they are. I see the usual pattern has been followed: someone else resigns and Boris runs off to hide. My side? Who did I vote for?
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 7:59:31 GMT
There are three ways for Labour to get to power, one is for Johnson to overstay his welcome, the second is he goes but is replaced by Liz Truss/Dominic Raab or someone similar. The other is for all or some of the right wing billionaire press barons to declare their support for him. If it becomes a straight shoot out in terms of policy or personality Starmer will get trounced. He’s had a fairly easy ride so far other than a couple of weeks of pressure over the Durham beer “scandal” as well, God knows what he’ll do if they turn the heat up on him……. The only way the Labour Party will get elected in England, which is essentially a rightwing country these days, is by presenting a moderate, non-threatening, middle ground approach. The leader helps but only to a limited extent, primarily by not being too "left". If the Tory Press thinks the Labour Party and its leader are too "left" the full combined weight of the Tory Party, the supine press and business leaders will swing into action to destroy them. That's the nature of the political landscape in England in particular. I get that you hate Starmer and his version of the Labour Party, but what you want is never getting elected. You need to realise that. So you have to decide which is worse, the Conservative party remaining in power or Starmer's labour? Interesting. I think the tide is turning towards democratic socialism, Mick Lynch and Sharon Graham leading the charge. Starmer is missing the bus.
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jun 24, 2022 8:01:52 GMT
There are three ways for Labour to get to power, one is for Johnson to overstay his welcome, the second is he goes but is replaced by Liz Truss/Dominic Raab or someone similar. The other is for all or some of the right wing billionaire press barons to declare their support for him. If it becomes a straight shoot out in terms of policy or personality Starmer will get trounced. He’s had a fairly easy ride so far other than a couple of weeks of pressure over the Durham beer “scandal” as well, God knows what he’ll do if they turn the heat up on him……. The only way the Labour Party will get elected in England, which is essentially a rightwing country these days, is by presenting a moderate, non-threatening, middle ground approach. The leader helps but only to a limited extent, primarily by not being too "left". If the Tory Press thinks the Labour Party and its leader are too "left" the full combined weight of the Tory Party, the supine press and business leaders will swing into action to destroy them. That's the nature of the political landscape in England in particular. I get that you hate Starmer and his version of the Labour Party, but what you want is never getting elected. You need to realise that. So you have to decide which is worse, the Conservative party remaining in power or Starmer's labour? What absolute claptrap! essentially a right wing country?
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 8:01:59 GMT
There we go, that's better, Labour under Starmer didn't do that well after all, you've got your mojo back! When there’s evidence to suggest that Tories are returning to vote for Labour rather than just choosing not to vote then I’ll think Labour have half a chance. That’s my analysis as I sit here now, that and the fact that Starmer as a leader is a waste of space (so far)……. Amazes me that you spend so much time on Starmer's Labour and so little on the Conservative government. Almost like that matters more! For once, I find myself in agreement with FYD, one thing you can always rely on is Labour supporters often preferring to fight the real enemy: other Labour supporters they don't agree with! (Not saying you are a Labour supporter, btw, simply that the point he made was valid).
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Jun 24, 2022 8:02:41 GMT
Starmer needs to step up. But the Tories have an enormous jump up to make to avoid further humiliation and capitulation, let alone to win the next election. Fingers crossed Johnson clings to power and continues to destroy the worst thing about this country - the tory party. There are three ways for Labour to get to power, one is for Johnson to overstay his welcome, the second is he goes but is replaced by Liz Truss/Dominic Raab or someone similar. The other is for all or some of the right wing billionaire press barons to declare their support for him. If it becomes a straight shoot out in terms of policy or personality Starmer will get trounced. He’s had a fairly easy ride so far other than a couple of weeks of pressure over the Durham beer “scandal” as well, God knows what he’ll do if they turn the heat up on him……. There is another way for Labour to get to power… have a charismatic leader who resonates with the public. A Tony Blair if you will. I accept he was light on policy, but he was a belter on sound bites. And that’s really all you need.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 24, 2022 8:03:43 GMT
When there’s evidence to suggest that Tories are returning to vote for Labour rather than just choosing not to vote then I’ll think Labour have half a chance. That’s my analysis as I sit here now, that and the fact that Starmer as a leader is a waste of space (so far)……. Amazes me that you spend so much time on Starmer's Labour and so little on the Conservative government. Almost like that matters more! For once, I find myself in agreement with FYD, one thing you can always rely on is Labour supporters often preferring to fight the real enemy: other Labour supporters they don't agree with! (Not saying you are a Labour supporter, btw, simply that the point he made was valid). I comment on both regularly. You're just making shit up now..........
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Jun 24, 2022 8:04:03 GMT
The only way the Labour Party will get elected in England, which is essentially a rightwing country these days, is by presenting a moderate, non-threatening, middle ground approach. The leader helps but only to a limited extent, primarily by not being too "left". If the Tory Press thinks the Labour Party and its leader are too "left" the full combined weight of the Tory Party, the supine press and business leaders will swing into action to destroy them. That's the nature of the political landscape in England in particular. I get that you hate Starmer and his version of the Labour Party, but what you want is never getting elected. You need to realise that. So you have to decide which is worse, the Conservative party remaining in power or Starmer's labour? What absolute claptrap! essentially a right wing country? Redwhinenblue likes to whine about this nonsensical notion from time to time. OK, make that all the time. It’s what he does. I wouldn’t let it worry you.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 8:04:28 GMT
The only way the Labour Party will get elected in England, which is essentially a rightwing country these days, is by presenting a moderate, non-threatening, middle ground approach. The leader helps but only to a limited extent, primarily by not being too "left". If the Tory Press thinks the Labour Party and its leader are too "left" the full combined weight of the Tory Party, the supine press and business leaders will swing into action to destroy them. That's the nature of the political landscape in England in particular. I get that you hate Starmer and his version of the Labour Party, but what you want is never getting elected. You need to realise that. So you have to decide which is worse, the Conservative party remaining in power or Starmer's labour? What absolute claptrap! essentially a right wing country? Perhaps if you could present an argument to the contrary, I might agree with you?
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 8:05:30 GMT
What absolute claptrap! essentially a right wing country? Redwhinenblue likes to whine about this nonsensical notion from time to time. OK, make that all the time. It’s what he does. I wouldn’t let it worry you. Pernicious and predictable ad hominem as usual!
|
|
|
Post by knype on Jun 24, 2022 8:06:50 GMT
What absolute claptrap! essentially a right wing country? Perhaps if you could present an argument to the contrary, I might agree with you? So in your opinion we are a right wing country? My opinion is that we are not! You haven't presented any argument, you just spit out bile and use the "Racist" term to anything central of your far left views
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 8:08:51 GMT
Amazes me that you spend so much time on Starmer's Labour and so little on the Conservative government. Almost like that matters more! For once, I find myself in agreement with FYD, one thing you can always rely on is Labour supporters often preferring to fight the real enemy: other Labour supporters they don't agree with! (Not saying you are a Labour supporter, btw, simply that the point he made was valid). I comment on both regularly. You're just making shit up now.......... True, but so much more about Starmer's inadequacy, as I pointed out over your complete silence about the polls for months, then as soon as there was a tie up you popped with a critical post about Starmer, nothing since...that's about the nature of it. I get that you hate him, but surely even you must think Starmer's Labour in power is a better option than the current Tory govt? Perhaps you don't?
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 8:12:53 GMT
Perhaps if you could present an argument to the contrary, I might agree with you? So in your opinion we are a right wing country? My opinion is that we are not! You haven't presented any argument, you just spit out bile and use the "Racist" term to anything central of your far left views Well, the evidence of the last 43 years of government would tend to suggest I'm right. We haven't had a socialist government for best part of half a century, largely as a result of English voting patterns. The last bit is plain daft. Not only am I not far left, but also right-wing does not mean racist, although it's very telling that you instantly went there!
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jun 24, 2022 8:13:49 GMT
There are three ways for Labour to get to power, one is for Johnson to overstay his welcome, the second is he goes but is replaced by Liz Truss/Dominic Raab or someone similar. The other is for all or some of the right wing billionaire press barons to declare their support for him. If it becomes a straight shoot out in terms of policy or personality Starmer will get trounced. He’s had a fairly easy ride so far other than a couple of weeks of pressure over the Durham beer “scandal” as well, God knows what he’ll do if they turn the heat up on him……. There is another way for Labour to get to power… have a charismatic leader who resonates with the public. A Tony Blair if you will. I accept he was light on policy, but he was a belter on sound bites. And that’s really all you need. Blair definitely had charisma. I managed a works in his constituency and went to a number of functions he attended and when he walked in the room it was like a light went on and there was a buzz in the place. People would remark on it.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 24, 2022 8:24:32 GMT
I comment on both regularly. You're just making shit up now.......... True, but so much more about Starmer's inadequacy, as I pointed out over your complete silence about the polls for months, then as soon as there was a tie up you popped with a critical post about Starmer, nothing since...that's about the nature of it. I get that you hate him, but surely even you must think Starmer's Labour in power is a better option than the current Tory govt? Perhaps you don't? You think the polls are a ringing endorsement of Starmer's Labour with everything going on with Johnson, really? Labour should be head and shoulders ahead, and again for what feels like the 50th time look at the raw data the lead is built on a shift from Tory to Don't Know. I don't hate Starmer I just think he's shit. Spineless, unprincipled, untrustworthy and shit. I think the same about Johnson but then I expected nothing less from him. It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Your only response is "Starmer is a better option surely?" Based on what? And it won't wash with the electorate whether you keep getting pissy about it or not...........
|
|
|
Post by Gob Bluth on Jun 24, 2022 8:26:50 GMT
Starmer needs to step up. But the Tories have an enormous jump up to make to avoid further humiliation and capitulation, let alone to win the next election. Fingers crossed Johnson clings to power and continues to destroy the worst thing about this country - the tory party. I don’t think Starmer is capable of stepping up. He has zero charisma and apparently no political message. He doesn’t seem to stand for anything. I wish it was different because I suspect the one thing you and I would agree on, Oggy, is we need to get rid of this PM and this government as soon as possible. But, sadly, Starmer is not the man to do it. Just to counter that somewhat. He would say that he stands for decency and he would say that offering his resignation is an example of that. I think it's ok to not be excited by the alternatives but it's hard not to look at the current lot and think anyone, pretty much anyone else would be better. I think this is how the Tories will see it and they'll select someone outside the government and have a purge then the other parties will have a battle but getting Johnson out will probably take some changes to their rules which I will personally love to watch. I agree he lacks charisma but I've never really understood why that is such an important attribute for a politician to have. I look at it like an accountant, I don't want to bed them I just want him to be really good at numbers.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2022 8:27:56 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2022 8:34:58 GMT
True, but so much more about Starmer's inadequacy, as I pointed out over your complete silence about the polls for months, then as soon as there was a tie up you popped with a critical post about Starmer, nothing since...that's about the nature of it. I get that you hate him, but surely even you must think Starmer's Labour in power is a better option than the current Tory govt? Perhaps you don't? You think the polls are a ringing endorsement of Starmer's Labour with everything going on with Johnson, really? Labour should be head and shoulders ahead, and again for what feels like the 50th time look at the raw data the lead is built on a shift from Tory to Don't Know. I don't hate Starmer I just think he's shit. Spineless, unprincipled, untrustworthy and shit. I think the same about Johnson but then I expected nothing less from him. It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. Your only response is "Starmer is a better option surely?" Based on what? And it won't wash with the electorate whether you keep getting pissy about it or not........... Calm down, prestwich, you're the only one chucking names around and getting a bit wound up. I'm having a discussion with you about why you hate Starmer so much and concentrate so much invective on him, rather than the government. I find it a bit odd. Yes, I think Starmer's Labour is a better option than Johnson's government, in much the same way that I thought Blair's Labour would be a better option than a Tory government. I'd be interested to know what you thought of Blair at the time, much the same, I expect, but who knows. The fact is that, like all governments, Blair's was far from perfect, but it also improved things that matter like health and education. These are things that I hope any government improves - the current one is very much making things worse on those fronts, and I hope the next Labour government will reverse that trend. I wasn't wrong in hoping that Blair's government would do so (in amongst the many things that they got wrong, particularly in foreign policy) and I hope I'm not going to be wrong if Starmer's Labour gets elected. However, one thing's for sure, the Tory Party won't make those improvements, nor will they level up, reduce inequality, poverty etc. Perhaps Starmer's govt won't either but given the history of the two parties, they're much the safer bet, not least because they contain many MPs that align much more comfortably with your views.
|
|