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Post by OldStokie on May 21, 2022 12:26:16 GMT
Both Johnson and Trump have that certain je ne sais quoi that can create cultish behavior in some people despite being absolute bastards in real life. But they're not the entire problem. Take Johnson for instance. All Tories know what a despicable person he is but they stick with him because they know he has that Pied Piper of Hamlin 'talent' and that secures their own positions. I'd go as far as saying that they are even worse than Johnson. They'd sell all their principles down the river to retain their power. Republicans are doing exactly that in the US. For some, power means everything and morals mean nothing.
OS.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 21, 2022 13:19:36 GMT
Both Johnson and Trump have that certain je ne sais quoi that can create cultish behavior in some people despite being absolute bastards in real life. But they're not the entire problem. Take Johnson for instance. All Tories know what a despicable person he is but they stick with him because they know he has that Pied Piper of Hamlin 'talent' and that secures their own positions. I'd go as far as saying that they are even worse than Johnson. They'd sell all their principles down the river to retain their power. Republicans are doing exactly that in the US. For some, power means everything and morals mean nothing. OS. Certainly Trump and Johnson are both immoral liars who will do anything for themselves, and nothing for anybody else.
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Post by wannabee on May 21, 2022 13:24:44 GMT
While Deputy Assistant Commissioner Bas Javid can look forward a long and distinguished career in Her Majesty's Constabulary for his impeccable work in the Partygate Cover-up Investigation Well what of Sue Gray ? Is she soon to become a Dame of the Realm for her outstanding and professional work on her "Independent" Report into Partygate or will this become her Swansong in the Civil Service followed by her Character Assassination in the usual mouthpiece's and a quick exit stage left. Already the spin, counter spin and briefing's have begun Maybe this time there has been a miscalculation about who they have appointed to undertake the investigation unlike Lord Geidt who couldn't find his arse with both hands when he investigated Flatgate, twice. On news of a secret meeting between Sue Gray and PM the usual suspects Daily Mail etc were briefed/told to print that it was Sue Gray who had requested meeting and it was about photographs Quick as a flash Sue's spokesperson came back and said that she had not requested the meeting and it had fuck all to do with photographs Lickity split "A Downing Street Spokesman " confirmed "Of Course" Boris hadn't requested the meeting (well who the Fuck had) and Sue Gray's Report will be entirely Independent We shall know soon enough I guess and live in hope if not expectation www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/partygate-sue-grays-team-reject-claim-she-initiated-meeting-with-pm-over-report-12618116
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Post by partickpotter on May 21, 2022 13:30:59 GMT
While Deputy Assistant Commissioner Bas Javid can look forward a long and distinguished career in Her Majesty's Constabulary for his impeccable work in the Partygate Cover-up Investigation Well what of Sue Gray ? Is she soon to become a Dame of the Realm for her outstanding and professional work on her "Independent" Report into Partygate or will this become her Swansong in the Civil Service followed by her Character Assassination in the usual mouthpiece's and a quick exit stage left. Already the spin, counter spin and briefing's have begun Maybe this time there has been a miscalculation about who they have appointed to undertake the investigation unlike Lord Geidt who couldn't find his arse with both hands when he investigated Flatgate, twice. On news of a secret meeting between Sue Gray and PM the usual suspects Daily Mail etc were briefed/told to print that it was Sue Gray who had requested meeting and it was about photographs Quick as a flash Sue's spokesperson came back and said that she had not requested the meeting and it had fuck all to do with photographs Lickity split "A Downing Street Spokesman " confirmed "Of Course" Boris hadn't requested the meeting (well who the Fuck had) and Sue Gray's Report will be entirely Independent We shall know soon enough I guess and live in hope if not expectation www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/partygate-sue-grays-team-reject-claim-she-initiated-meeting-with-pm-over-report-12618116Don’t despair. Boris will trip over his own feet again. Soon. It’s what he does best.
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Post by elystokie on May 21, 2022 14:04:56 GMT
While Deputy Assistant Commissioner Bas Javid can look forward a long and distinguished career in Her Majesty's Constabulary for his impeccable work in the Partygate Cover-up Investigation Well what of Sue Gray ? Is she soon to become a Dame of the Realm for her outstanding and professional work on her "Independent" Report into Partygate or will this become her Swansong in the Civil Service followed by her Character Assassination in the usual mouthpiece's and a quick exit stage left. Already the spin, counter spin and briefing's have begun Maybe this time there has been a miscalculation about who they have appointed to undertake the investigation unlike Lord Geidt who couldn't find his arse with both hands when he investigated Flatgate, twice. On news of a secret meeting between Sue Gray and PM the usual suspects Daily Mail etc were briefed/told to print that it was Sue Gray who had requested meeting and it was about photographs Quick as a flash Sue's spokesperson came back and said that she had not requested the meeting and it had fuck all to do with photographs Lickity split "A Downing Street Spokesman " confirmed "Of Course" Boris hadn't requested the meeting (well who the Fuck had) and Sue Gray's Report will be entirely Independent We shall know soon enough I guess and live in hope if not expectation www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/partygate-sue-grays-team-reject-claim-she-initiated-meeting-with-pm-over-report-12618116Don’t despair. Boris will trip over his own feet again. Soon. It’s what he does best. He will but the despair probably comes from the knowledge that fuck all will change as a result
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 21, 2022 14:24:48 GMT
Both Johnson and Trump have that certain je ne sais quoi that can create cultish behavior in some people despite being absolute bastards in real life. But they're not the entire problem. Take Johnson for instance. All Tories know what a despicable person he is but they stick with him because they know he has that Pied Piper of Hamlin 'talent' and that secures their own positions. I'd go as far as saying that they are even worse than Johnson. They'd sell all their principles down the river to retain their power. Republicans are doing exactly that in the US. For some, power means everything and morals mean nothing. OS. What's weird is that everyone knows this now, surely, even people who don't give a monkeys about politics, which is most people. So, the continued popularity is odd. Presumably, it's just tribalism at that point. The 30% who don't really care, provided it's blue.
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Post by elystokie on May 21, 2022 14:59:28 GMT
Both Johnson and Trump have that certain je ne sais quoi that can create cultish behavior in some people despite being absolute bastards in real life. But they're not the entire problem. Take Johnson for instance. All Tories know what a despicable person he is but they stick with him because they know he has that Pied Piper of Hamlin 'talent' and that secures their own positions. I'd go as far as saying that they are even worse than Johnson. They'd sell all their principles down the river to retain their power. Republicans are doing exactly that in the US. For some, power means everything and morals mean nothing. OS. What's weird is that everyone knows this now, surely, even people who don't give a monkeys about politics, which is most people. So, the continued popularity is odd. Presumably, it's just tribalism at that point. The 30% who don't really care, provided it's blue. I read a quote recently about how good we humans are at suppressing our epiphanies, especially when they affect our salaries and friendships.
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Post by partickpotter on May 21, 2022 16:25:34 GMT
What's weird is that everyone knows this now, surely, even people who don't give a monkeys about politics, which is most people. So, the continued popularity is odd. Presumably, it's just tribalism at that point. The 30% who don't really care, provided it's blue. I read a quote recently about how good we humans are at suppressing our epiphanies, especially when they affect our salaries and friendships. I think that vacuous 30% figure posted by that vacuous previous poster reflects a vicious attitude towards his fellow citizens. It’s part of a well established shift by some on the left of politics that has nothing but contempt for the working class, something very well captured in Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class by the radical trade union activist and former fire fighter Paul Embrey. Well worth a read.
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Post by elystokie on May 21, 2022 17:02:41 GMT
I read a quote recently about how good we humans are at suppressing our epiphanies, especially when they affect our salaries and friendships. I think that vacuous 30% figure posted by that vacuous previous poster reflects a vicious attitude towards his fellow citizens. It’s part of a well established shift by some on the left of politics that has nothing but contempt for the working class, something very well captured in Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class by the radical trade union activist and former fire fighter Paul Embrey. Well worth a read. I might check it out later, spending a small fortune on books lately and struggling to get to read them all. The quote I gave was from Johann Hari's Chasing the Scream although it's not his quote.
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Post by partickpotter on May 21, 2022 17:18:59 GMT
I think that vacuous 30% figure posted by that vacuous previous poster reflects a vicious attitude towards his fellow citizens. It’s part of a well established shift by some on the left of politics that has nothing but contempt for the working class, something very well captured in Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class by the radical trade union activist and former fire fighter Paul Embrey. Well worth a read. I might check it out later, spending a small fortune on books lately and struggling to get to read them all. The quote I gave was from Johann Hari's Chasing the Scream although it's not his quote. I’m buying lots of books - but not spending much money. I buy loads of them from Kindle daily downloads for a quid. Currently reading Empire of Pain about the Sacklers, OxyContin and the opioid crisis in the US. It’s a study into the shitstorm laissez faire capitalism can cause when a company chases sales and profit to the exclusion of anything else and government allows them to. After that, I’m not sure. But I’ve got over a hundred to choose from. I quite fancy a Len Deighton book I think before diving into Days of Destruction Days of Revolt, a heavy graphic book that I did pay full whack for.
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Post by elystokie on May 21, 2022 18:31:37 GMT
I might check it out later, spending a small fortune on books lately and struggling to get to read them all. The quote I gave was from Johann Hari's Chasing the Scream although it's not his quote. I’m buying lots of books - but not spending much money. I buy loads of them from Kindle daily downloads for a quid. Currently reading Empire of Pain about the Sacklers, OxyContin and the opioid crisis in the US. It’s a study into the shitstorm laissez faire capitalism can cause when a company chases sales and profit to the exclusion of anything else and government allows them to. After that, I’m not sure. But I’ve got over a hundred to choose from. I quite fancy a Len Deighton book I think before diving into Days of Destruction Days of Revolt, a heavy graphic book that I did pay full whack for. Yeh, I've bought a fair few on the 99p things too, I think Kindle unlimited is an absolute bargain even though I'm not using it much atm, the books I want to read most just now aren't on there. Edit - that Sackler thing is covered to a degree in Chasing the Scream, fuckers should be in jail.
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Post by wannabee on May 21, 2022 19:01:29 GMT
I’m buying lots of books - but not spending much money. I buy loads of them from Kindle daily downloads for a quid. Currently reading Empire of Pain about the Sacklers, OxyContin and the opioid crisis in the US. It’s a study into the shitstorm laissez faire capitalism can cause when a company chases sales and profit to the exclusion of anything else and government allows them to. After that, I’m not sure. But I’ve got over a hundred to choose from. I quite fancy a Len Deighton book I think before diving into Days of Destruction Days of Revolt, a heavy graphic book that I did pay full whack for. Yeh, I've bought a fair few on the 99p things too, I think Kindle unlimited is an absolute bargain even though I'm not using it much atm, the books I want to read most just now aren't on there. Edit - that Sackler thing is covered to a degree in Chasing the Scream, fuckers should be in jail. As an ex avid reader I find as I get older my attention span for reading has diminished For a more immediate experience the Series Dopesick with Michael Keaton is worth a watch although it can never reach the level of detail
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Post by elystokie on May 21, 2022 19:28:18 GMT
Yeh, I've bought a fair few on the 99p things too, I think Kindle unlimited is an absolute bargain even though I'm not using it much atm, the books I want to read most just now aren't on there. Edit - that Sackler thing is covered to a degree in Chasing the Scream, fuckers should be in jail. As an ex avid reader I find as I get older my attention span for reading has diminished For a more immediate experience the Series Dopesick with Michael Keaton is worth a watch although it can never reach the level of detail I've been through phases of heavy reading and not reading for months at a time my whole life but if I get inquisitive about something that interests me I'll dig and dig. As I've got older I read much less fiction than I used to.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 19:47:53 GMT
Completely normal government and leader.
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Post by essexstokey on May 21, 2022 23:56:06 GMT
Completely normal government and leader. Next well notice Alexander and Serge as lords after we find out compare the meerkat has given money to the Tory party 😁😁😁
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 22, 2022 6:35:44 GMT
I read a quote recently about how good we humans are at suppressing our epiphanies, especially when they affect our salaries and friendships. I think that vacuous 30% figure posted by that vacuous previous poster reflects a vicious attitude towards his fellow citizens. It’s part of a well established shift by some on the left of politics that has nothing but contempt for the working class, something very well captured in Despised: Why the Modern Left Loathes the Working Class by the radical trade union activist and former fire fighter Paul Embrey. Well worth a read. It's more a reflection of the fact that there is a core support that rarely, if ever, drops below 30% of the electorate for the Tory Party. Might be the same for Labour too, I've not looked. But since we have a Tory government, led by a man with absolutely no convictions, other than the one he received recently, it seems pertinent to reflect on what might turn that 30% away from voting Conservative. Others have also made the accurate comparison between Trump and Johnson. It was Trump who said that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his followers would still support him. There's clearly a parallel there with our own lying law-breaker in power.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 22, 2022 8:21:27 GMT
Students who took out a student loan after 2012 will be paying either 9% interest on that loan if they earn under £49,130, and 12% interest if they earn over that figure!!
With tuition fees increases (another Tory policy), most students have around £50k of debt when they finish university, and most will be paying it back their whole life with those interest rates.
Meanwhile, almost every government minister would have had tuition fees paid for by the government at the time. Despite most of them being millionaires.
Absolute disgrace.
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Post by toppercorner on May 22, 2022 8:25:50 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on May 22, 2022 8:27:46 GMT
Students who took out a student loan after 2012 will be paying either 9% interest on that loan if they earn under £49,130, and 12% interest if they earn over that figure!! With tuition fees increases (another Tory policy), most students have around £50k of debt when they finish university, and most will be paying it back their whole life with those interest rates. Meanwhile, almost every government minister would have had tuition fees paid for by the government at the time. Despite most of them being millionaires. Absolute disgrace. Who introduced tuition fees? Why were they introduced?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 22, 2022 8:28:44 GMT
Car crash
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Post by oggyoggy on May 22, 2022 8:38:36 GMT
Students who took out a student loan after 2012 will be paying either 9% interest on that loan if they earn under £49,130, and 12% interest if they earn over that figure!! With tuition fees increases (another Tory policy), most students have around £50k of debt when they finish university, and most will be paying it back their whole life with those interest rates. Meanwhile, almost every government minister would have had tuition fees paid for by the government at the time. Despite most of them being millionaires. Absolute disgrace. Who introduced tuition fees? Why were they introduced? I think Blair, at £1000 a year and it was means tested, so the poorer students did not pay and the rich did. There were also maintenance grants at the time for those from the least affluent backgrounds. Now they are capped at £9,250 a year and there are no significant exceptions. I imagine Blair introduced them because it saved money. Starmer said he would abolish tuition fees a few years ago. Whether that is still his position, I do not know. The Tories massively hiked the tuition fees. And have allowed the student loans company to charge 12% interest, and that will increase further if inflation continues to increase. Appalling policy from the Tories. They need to act now and peg the interest rate to base rate. Otherwise the rich will pay their children’s university fees, and the poor majority simply won’t be able to justify going to university and as a country we will lose a huge amount as a result of the brightest not going to university. University isn’t for everyone. But it should be for the brightest in their fields, not those who are richest. Regardless of politics, the current system cannot get the best out of our brightest as it will prevent those bright kids without rich parents from going to university.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 22, 2022 8:45:06 GMT
Oops...again
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Post by toppercorner on May 22, 2022 8:48:31 GMT
Students who took out a student loan after 2012 will be paying either 9% interest on that loan if they earn under £49,130, and 12% interest if they earn over that figure!! With tuition fees increases (another Tory policy), most students have around £50k of debt when they finish university, and most will be paying it back their whole life with those interest rates. Meanwhile, almost every government minister would have had tuition fees paid for by the government at the time. Despite most of them being millionaires. Absolute disgrace. it's also worth noting that all MPs get free Uni education for their children currently. they won't lumber their own with debt.
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Post by partickpotter on May 22, 2022 8:51:23 GMT
Who introduced tuition fees? Why were they introduced? I think Blair, at £1000 a year and it was means tested, so the poorer students did not pay and the rich did. There were also maintenance grants at the time for those from the least affluent backgrounds. Now they are capped at £9,250 a year and there are no significant exceptions. I imagine Blair introduced them because it saved money. Starmer said he would abolish tuition fees a few years ago. Whether that is still his position, I do not know. The Tories massively hiked the tuition fees. And have allowed the student loans company to charge 12% interest, and that will increase further if inflation continues to increase. Appalling policy from the Tories. They need to act now and peg the interest rate to base rate. Otherwise the rich will pay their children’s university fees, and the poor majority simply won’t be able to justify going to university and as a country we will lose a huge amount as a result of the brightest not going to university. University isn’t for everyone. But it should be for the brightest in their fields, not those who are richest. Regardless of politics, the current system cannot get the best out of our brightest as it will prevent those bright kids without rich parents from going to university. I disagree. Because I don’t believe the poor should fund the rich. Which is what Universities are - a playground for the privileged.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 22, 2022 9:02:01 GMT
I think Blair, at £1000 a year and it was means tested, so the poorer students did not pay and the rich did. There were also maintenance grants at the time for those from the least affluent backgrounds. Now they are capped at £9,250 a year and there are no significant exceptions. I imagine Blair introduced them because it saved money. Starmer said he would abolish tuition fees a few years ago. Whether that is still his position, I do not know. The Tories massively hiked the tuition fees. And have allowed the student loans company to charge 12% interest, and that will increase further if inflation continues to increase. Appalling policy from the Tories. They need to act now and peg the interest rate to base rate. Otherwise the rich will pay their children’s university fees, and the poor majority simply won’t be able to justify going to university and as a country we will lose a huge amount as a result of the brightest not going to university. University isn’t for everyone. But it should be for the brightest in their fields, not those who are richest. Regardless of politics, the current system cannot get the best out of our brightest as it will prevent those bright kids without rich parents from going to university. I disagree. Because I don’t believe the poor should fund the rich. Which is what Universities are - a playground for the privileged. Says the guy who didn’t get into LSE They are also a playground for many key workers, enlightenment and the vast majority of major human achievements. Restricting the above only to the rich is going backwards 100 years.
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Post by thewonderstuff on May 22, 2022 9:04:02 GMT
He similarly just been dry roasted by Jo Coburn on the BBC. They are all appalling, feckless, useless and most worryingly without a shred of shame.
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Post by toppercorner on May 22, 2022 9:05:12 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on May 22, 2022 9:13:58 GMT
I disagree. Because I don’t believe the poor should fund the rich. Which is what Universities are - a playground for the privileged. Says the guy who didn’t get into LSE They are also a playground for many key workers, enlightenment and the vast majority of major human achievements. Restricting the above only to the rich is going backwards 100 years. People go to university to get better qualifications that allow them to earn highly paid jobs. Why should someone earning fuck all pay someone to earn loads more than them? That’s just weird.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 22, 2022 9:24:29 GMT
Says the guy who didn’t get into LSE They are also a playground for many key workers, enlightenment and the vast majority of major human achievements. Restricting the above only to the rich is going backwards 100 years. People go to university to get better qualifications that allow them to earn highly paid jobs. Why should someone earning fuck all pay someone to earn loads more than them? That’s just weird. That would be weird. But nobody is saying the poor should pay money to the rich. I’m saying tuition fee interest rates should be pegged to the BoE base rate. Tuition fees should be charged to those who can afford them (or whose rich parents can afford them) and they should be means tested on a sliding scale so those from the least affluent backgrounds pay the least, and those from the richest backgrounds pay the most. That way the brightest go to university and not just the rich. The current system perpetuates the ever increasing divide between the rich and the poor in this country, as the rich go to university and get the better qualifications and contacts and the better paid jobs, and a more intelligent and more talented poorer person cannot afford to do the same. Edit: and if you are going to come back saying “why should poor people who did not go to uni pay tax to subsidise others going to university” my response is: tax the rich a bit more to cover the subsidy. Add 5% to capital gains tax. That should cover it. Or tax wealth a small percentage and that will cover it. Second edit: i’d prefer tax payers money to be spent on getting poor but bright people through university than on this: www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/21/treasury-criticised-for-agreeing-500k-spend-on-focus-groups-and-polls
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 22, 2022 9:30:29 GMT
He similarly just been dry roasted by Jo Coburn on the BBC. They are all appalling, feckless, useless and most worryingly without a shred of shame. She should just have gone with saying that Johnson called the meeting and then asked why would you do that unless it was to interfere with the inquiry. Then let him obfuscate some more after which "yes, we know you can't or won't tell us, so we're saying it was Johnson and the reason for doing so is obvious". If he still refuses to say, then that's a fair enough assumption in the absence of any clarity from government.
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