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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 8, 2023 15:43:43 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 8, 2023 21:15:31 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 8, 2023 22:10:19 GMT
As poor as the current government have become the polls are predicting Labour will win the next election but without an overall majority....how poor are Labour if they can't get an overall majority at this point. ...get ready for another coalition with the lib dems or worse the snp, with labour's policies compromised to appease their coalition partners To be fair there were seasoned political commentators all over the media a little over just three years ago, suggesting (quite legitimately) that it would be virtually impossible for Labour to get anywhere near a sniff of overturning a Tory eighty seat majority for at least eight years, probably twelve.
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Post by adri2008 on May 9, 2023 6:35:51 GMT
Thats not factoring in the inevitable swing from SNP to Labour Should be around 20 seats won back for Labour that should push them over the line for a majority given the gains elsewhere Still has a feeling of relying on everyone else to be a worse choice rather than being strong enough to be worth voting for though. It feels like Labour need a good win in the next GE and a good campaign as well. I do wonder if they can last as a serious contender if they don’t. Starmers no leader is the issue - he inspires noone. He does however have the impossible task of trying to appeal to young people, socially conservative red wall voters and floating voters all of whom have opposing priorities. A decision has obviously been made to take a softly sofly approach and offer zero radical policies in the hope of getting in power by default.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 6:36:35 GMT
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Post by lordb on May 9, 2023 7:15:16 GMT
Still has a feeling of relying on everyone else to be a worse choice rather than being strong enough to be worth voting for though. It feels like Labour need a good win in the next GE and a good campaign as well. I do wonder if they can last as a serious contender if they don’t. Starmers no leader is the issue - he inspires noone. He does however have the impossible task of trying to appeal to young people, socially conservative red wall voters and floating voters all of whom have opposing priorities. A decision has obviously been made to take a softly sofly approach and offer zero radical policies in the hope of getting in power by default. Sensible no?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 9, 2023 7:17:10 GMT
Starmers no leader is the issue - he inspires noone. He does however have the impossible task of trying to appeal to young people, socially conservative red wall voters and floating voters all of whom have opposing priorities. A decision has obviously been made to take a softly sofly approach and offer zero radical policies in the hope of getting in power by default. Sensible no? Indeed. It's literally what Cameron did.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 7:27:42 GMT
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Post by adri2008 on May 9, 2023 8:35:22 GMT
Starmers no leader is the issue - he inspires noone. He does however have the impossible task of trying to appeal to young people, socially conservative red wall voters and floating voters all of whom have opposing priorities. A decision has obviously been made to take a softly sofly approach and offer zero radical policies in the hope of getting in power by default. Sensible no? I think it's a mistake as it creates apathy amongst supporters and risks voters thinking 'may as well stick with the devil we know' particularly up against Sunak who is a technocrat and a far more competent PM than the half arsed BoJo or deluded Truss.
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 9, 2023 10:14:07 GMT
Shame on our government for implementing this, and shame on Labour for not calling it out as morally repugnant.....
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 10:18:23 GMT
Don't say you weren't warned....
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 12:22:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 12:39:56 GMT
He didn’t want to answer questions immediately after going to the Doctors? Madness. He does seem to try his best to not be accountable but trying to badger someone after a medical visit also doesn’t seem right.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 12:42:22 GMT
He didn’t want to answer questions immediately after going to the Doctors? Madness. He does seem to try his best to not be accountable but trying to badger someone after a medical visit also doesn’t seem right. No mate, he was on a PR visit not a personal appointment.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2023 12:50:17 GMT
He didn’t want to answer questions immediately after going to the Doctors? Madness. He does seem to try his best to not be accountable but trying to badger someone after a medical visit also doesn’t seem right. No mate, he was on a PR visit not a personal appointment. Oh, that’s very different. Thanks. I couldn’t find the link to the article, so I assumed it was his own visit. I’ve read a number of times that he’s “steadying the ship” but to me it just seems like he’s doing his best to limit controversy by not bothering to address his policies in public.
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Post by gawa on May 9, 2023 13:00:40 GMT
No mate, he was on a PR visit not a personal appointment. Oh, that’s very different. Thanks. I couldn’t find the link to the article, so I assumed it was his own visit. I’ve read a number of times that he’s “steadying the ship” but to me it just seems like he’s doing his best to limit controversy by not bothering to address his policies in public. When the ship is a banana boat anyone can say they've steadied it 😂
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 9, 2023 13:30:42 GMT
I think it's a mistake as it creates apathy amongst supporters and risks voters thinking 'may as well stick with the devil we know' particularly up against Sunak who is a technocrat and a far more competent PM than the half arsed BoJo or deluded Truss. The problem is the electorate is way too diverse for a two party system - Labour and the Tories are fighting for the same right of centre/socially conservative vote they believe will swing the election and put out messages they think will appeal to that group of the electorate even if they don't really believe it. This will just create more disillusionment when the lies get shown up as lies and it leaves large swathes of the electorate feeling marginalised and unrepresented. In addition both Labour and the Tories struggle with warring factions with completely different political agendas causing them to lurch from one direction to another further alienating the electorate. Part of the problem is there isn't an authentic party of the socially conservative working class. It certainly isn't Labour and anyone who thinks the Tories give a flying fuck about the working class beyond their vote is an idiot. The nearest thing was UKIP but they just folded and handed power to the Tories at the last election. I'm not socially conservative working class - I'm from a working class background and my politics are liberal/progressive/radical but I do believe the socially conservative working class have as much right to a voice in government as anyone. At the moment they have the luxury of the two mainstream parties lying through their teeth to attract their vote but neither party really represents them or has any intention of following through on their lies. We need PR and genuinely representative government. The parties can then focus on what they really believe and give their supporters an authentic voice without trying to be all things to all people or lie to people they don't really represent.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 9, 2023 13:40:36 GMT
I think it's a mistake as it creates apathy amongst supporters and risks voters thinking 'may as well stick with the devil we know' particularly up against Sunak who is a technocrat and a far more competent PM than the half arsed BoJo or deluded Truss. The problem is the electorate is way too diverse for a two party system - Labour and the Tories are fighting for the same right of centre/socially conservative vote they believe will swing the election and put out messages they think will appeal to that group of the electorate even if they don't really believe it. This will just create more disillusionment when the lies get shown up as lies and it leaves large swathes of the electorate feeling marginalised and unrepresented. In addition both Labour and the Tories struggle with warring factions with completely different political agendas causing them to lurch from one direction to another further alienating the electorate. Part of the problem is there isn't an authentic party of the socially conservative working class. It certainly isn't Labour and anyone who thinks the Tories give a flying fuck about the working class beyond their vote is an idiot. The nearest thing was UKIP but they just folded and handed power to the Tories at the last election. I'm not socially conservative working class - I'm from a working class background and my politics are liberal/progressive/radical but I do believe the socially conservative working class have as much right to a voice in government as anyone. At the moment they have the luxury of the two mainstream parties lying through their teeth to attract their vote but neither party really represents them or has any intention of following through on their lies. We need PR and genuinely representative government. The parties can then focus on what they really believe and give their supporters an authentic voice without trying to be all things to all people or lie to people they don't really represent. Agree with every word of that and of course at the last Labour Party conference, they voted for introducing PR to be a pledge in the next Labour party manifesto. Now Starmer is clearly doing everything he can not to rock the boat prior to the next election but if once in power, conference were to repeatedly vote in favour of introducing PR, I think he would find it increasingly difficult to ignore those calls. I certainly hope so.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 9, 2023 14:43:07 GMT
The problem is the electorate is way too diverse for a two party system - Labour and the Tories are fighting for the same right of centre/socially conservative vote they believe will swing the election and put out messages they think will appeal to that group of the electorate even if they don't really believe it. This will just create more disillusionment when the lies get shown up as lies and it leaves large swathes of the electorate feeling marginalised and unrepresented. In addition both Labour and the Tories struggle with warring factions with completely different political agendas causing them to lurch from one direction to another further alienating the electorate. Part of the problem is there isn't an authentic party of the socially conservative working class. It certainly isn't Labour and anyone who thinks the Tories give a flying fuck about the working class beyond their vote is an idiot. The nearest thing was UKIP but they just folded and handed power to the Tories at the last election. I'm not socially conservative working class - I'm from a working class background and my politics are liberal/progressive/radical but I do believe the socially conservative working class have as much right to a voice in government as anyone. At the moment they have the luxury of the two mainstream parties lying through their teeth to attract their vote but neither party really represents them or has any intention of following through on their lies. We need PR and genuinely representative government. The parties can then focus on what they really believe and give their supporters an authentic voice without trying to be all things to all people or lie to people they don't really represent. Agree with every word of that and of course at the last Labour Party conference, they voted for introducing PR to be a pledge in the next Labour party manifesto. Now Starmer is clearly doing everything he can not to rock the boat prior to the next election but if once in power, conference were to repeatedly vote in favour of introducing PR, I think he would find it increasingly difficult to ignore those calls. I certainly hope so. I hope so as well and it's maddening that Starmer hasn't accepted the democratic decision of his own party conference. I'm not sure Starmer will adopt PR - I think it would require a change of leader. My hope is that there will be a hung Parliament at the next election and Labour will have to adopt it as a condition of forming a government. My biggest fear is that Labour get a majority, refuse to adopt PR and simply hand the keys of government back to the Tories for another 12-15 years after one or two terms in office - which will pretty much kill off any hope of PR and properly representative government in my lifetime. I know Labour are claiming an outright victory is on the cards after the local elections but it looked to me more like a hung Parliament - Labour did ok but the Lib Dems and the Greens did incredibly well in the southern Tory heartlands. It may all rest on how Labour do in Scotland.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 15:06:51 GMT
Shame on our government for implementing this, and shame on Labour for not calling it out as morally repugnant..... Actually, if it's going to be that fantastic, let's order another and put the MP's in it. That would save a few quid.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 9, 2023 15:08:30 GMT
Agree with every word of that and of course at the last Labour Party conference, they voted for introducing PR to be a pledge in the next Labour party manifesto. Now Starmer is clearly doing everything he can not to rock the boat prior to the next election but if once in power, conference were to repeatedly vote in favour of introducing PR, I think he would find it increasingly difficult to ignore those calls. I certainly hope so. I hope so as well and it's maddening that Starmer hasn't accepted the democratic decision of his own party conference. I'm not sure Starmer will adopt PR - I think it would require a change of leader. My hope is that there will be a hung Parliament at the next election and Labour will have to adopt it as a condition of forming a government. My biggest fear is that Labour get a majority, refuse to adopt PR and simply hand the keys of government back to the Tories for another 12-15 years after one or two terms in office - which will pretty much kill off any hope of PR and properly representative government in my lifetime. I know Labour are claiming an outright victory is on the cards after the local elections but it looked to me more like a hung Parliament - Labour did ok but the Lib Dems and the Greens did incredibly well in the southern Tory heartlands. It may all rest on how Labour do in Scotland. Starmer has lost Labour the next election. Hung parliament at best I'd say.
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Post by Veritas on May 9, 2023 15:23:24 GMT
Agree with every word of that and of course at the last Labour Party conference, they voted for introducing PR to be a pledge in the next Labour party manifesto. Now Starmer is clearly doing everything he can not to rock the boat prior to the next election but if once in power, conference were to repeatedly vote in favour of introducing PR, I think he would find it increasingly difficult to ignore those calls. I certainly hope so. I hope so as well and it's maddening that Starmer hasn't accepted the democratic decision of his own party conference. I'm not sure Starmer will adopt PR - I think it would require a change of leader. My hope is that there will be a hung Parliament at the next election and Labour will have to adopt it as a condition of forming a government. My biggest fear is that Labour get a majority, refuse to adopt PR and simply hand the keys of government back to the Tories for another 12-15 years after one or two terms in office - which will pretty much kill off any hope of PR and properly representative government in my lifetime. I know Labour are claiming an outright victory is on the cards after the local elections but it looked to me more like a hung Parliament - Labour did ok but the Lib Dems and the Greens did incredibly well in the southern Tory heartlands. It may all rest on how Labour do in Scotland. The Lib Dem's always tend to over achieve at local elections which may change the picture but I agree the most likely outcome is Labour as the biggest party in a hung parliament. The big unknown is if and how far the SNP vote collapses. Whatever happens I am fairly hopeful that at least the Tories will be out which is obviously the no 1 aim.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 9, 2023 18:04:08 GMT
Shame on our government for implementing this, and shame on Labour for not calling it out as morally repugnant..... That’s true, could do with at least another 10 of those things
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 9, 2023 18:31:54 GMT
Shame on our government for implementing this, and shame on Labour for not calling it out as morally repugnant..... That’s true, could do with at least another 10 of those things Why shame on the government for implementing this?? Why is it morally repugnant?? It's costing alot less than having to use hotels..and the costs to maintain and repair hotels after some have stayed there.. It's having a thorough refurbishment before anyone is housed there. There will be small shops, gyms, and many other facilities for people to use.. It will allow officials to check those staying there are who they claim and have genuine need to come to the UK.. It will help ease tensions in small South Coast towns where there is nothing for these people to do.. It's actually a good idea..buy two dozen more and keep those who shouldn't be here off the streets living illegally in far worse conditions than what they will have on these floatels.
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Post by roylandstoke on May 9, 2023 22:41:38 GMT
Starmers no leader is the issue - he inspires noone. He does however have the impossible task of trying to appeal to young people, socially conservative red wall voters and floating voters all of whom have opposing priorities. A decision has obviously been made to take a softly sofly approach and offer zero radical policies in the hope of getting in power by default. Sensible no? Sensible; if you only need to garner the votes of the 35% of the electorate, who are only interested in themselves and their own small minded selfish interests, that will vote Tory regardless of what the opposition stand for. 30% of the population don’t vote. 65% of those that do vote don’t vote Tory. The Labour Party shouldn’t be fighting for Tory votes. Fuck chasing the votes of people who will vote Tory despite being regularly shat on by elite wankers who wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire. Elite public school scum could shit on the carpets of some of the posters on this board, before shagging their wives or daughters, and still get their votes. Offer hope for a better future and you could win, if only the pseudo socialists in the media, that shot down the last socialist alternative could refrain from supporting the status quo out of fear of losing their own massive privilege. Their is an opportunity to create a fairer more equal society; Young people want that. An opposition that offers real change could win.
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Post by gawa on May 9, 2023 23:25:05 GMT
That’s true, could do with at least another 10 of those things Why shame on the government for implementing this?? Why is it morally repugnant?? It's costing alot less than having to use hotels..and the costs to maintain and repair hotels after some have stayed there.. It's having a thorough refurbishment before anyone is housed there. There will be small shops, gyms, and many other facilities for people to use.. It will allow officials to check those staying there are who they claim and have genuine need to come to the UK.. It will help ease tensions in small South Coast towns where there is nothing for these people to do.. It's actually a good idea..buy two dozen more and keep those who shouldn't be here off the streets living illegally in far worse conditions than what they will have on these floatels. I actually am inclined to agree. I think it's not a bad idea as a prototype and is more of a solution than their other idea. At the end of the day it's for asylum seekers, not those granted asylum as far as I know? At least not on a permenant basis. I'm sure the asylum seekers may actually prefer it as they will hopefully have on board facilities too and hopefully an environment which is safer than some of these hotels with protests outside them. Understandably some of the local residents may not be happy. But at least compared to some of the ideas spun out by this government, this one is a bit more sensible and potentially a cost saving too.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 10, 2023 6:25:36 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 10, 2023 6:45:40 GMT
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Post by gawa on May 10, 2023 11:26:12 GMT
Embarrassing display by Sunak on PMQs this week. The public sent him a message last week and he still pretends that everything is OK.
Literally living in a world of his own.
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Post by foster on May 10, 2023 13:13:44 GMT
Embarrassing display by Sunak on PMQs this week. The public sent him a message last week and he still pretends that everything is OK. Literally living in a world of his own. In a world of Tories you mean. The sooner they're out the better. Great system we've got that we have to endure all this corruption for years. They're raking it in, and we just have to sit back and wait while they make themselves millions.
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