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Post by gawa on May 5, 2023 21:10:30 GMT
For what it's worth I intend to vote for a councillor who is from a right wing party because he works tirelessly in the community. I'm sure there are some decent hard working tory councillors too.
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Post by Han Solo on May 5, 2023 21:29:51 GMT
For what it's worth I intend to vote for a councillor who is from a right wing party because he works tirelessly in the community. I'm sure there are some decent hard working tory councillors too. Good for you mate. People should be more open minded about who they vote for. As you say there’s good and bad in both parties and people shouldn’t be so set in there ways. Surely it’s a good thing to be flexible and willing to change if you see something not working. The voting public should vote for the person they feel most connected too and who they think is the best man or woman for the job and the best when in post to support their community. Change can be a good thing if a country or community has got stagnant. It’ll be interesting to see how the dynamics change on this thread when Labour get in as those attacking the government will now be defending them and visa versa. It’s certainly an easier job to criticise those in power than defend them. Could be an interesting few years. It really feels like the right time for change and hopefully Starmer can deliver what he says.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 5, 2023 21:35:03 GMT
What's he done around Kidsgrove and Talke that was a good job? If you lived local you'd know? Why don’t you tell us?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 5, 2023 21:37:27 GMT
For what it's worth I intend to vote for a councillor who is from a right wing party because he works tirelessly in the community. I'm sure there are some decent hard working tory councillors too. Good for you mate. People should be more open minded about who they vote for. As you say there’s good and bad in both parties and people shouldn’t be so set in there ways. Surely it’s a good thing to be flexible and willing to change if you see something not working. The voting public should vote for the person they feel most connected too and who they think is the best man or woman for the job and the best when in post to support their community. Change can be a good thing if a country or community has got stagnant. It’ll be interesting to see how the dynamics change on this thread when Labour get in as those attacking the government will now be defending them and visa versa. It’s certainly an easier job to criticise those in power than defend them. Could be an interesting few years. It really feels like the right time for change and hopefully Starmer can deliver what he says. It’s certainly easy to criticise those in power when they’ve been the worst government we’ve had in living memory.
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Post by gawa on May 5, 2023 21:49:53 GMT
For what it's worth I intend to vote for a councillor who is from a right wing party because he works tirelessly in the community. I'm sure there are some decent hard working tory councillors too. Good for you mate. People should be more open minded about who they vote for. As you say there’s good and bad in both parties and people shouldn’t be so set in there ways. Surely it’s a good thing to be flexible and willing to change if you see something not working. The voting public should vote for the person they feel most connected too and who they think is the best man or woman for the job and the best when in post to support their community. Change can be a good thing if a country or community has got stagnant. It’ll be interesting to see how the dynamics change on this thread when Labour get in as those attacking the government will now be defending them and visa versa. It’s certainly an easier job to criticise those in power than defend them. Could be an interesting few years. It really feels like the right time for change and hopefully Starmer can deliver what he says. Agree with everything you said there. It's a UUP councillor I'll be voting for who are right wing but not as far as DUP or TUV. Throughout covid he was brilliant and for the last number of years he's the only councillor who's been an ever present every day doing stuff. He deserves the vote rather than a councillor from a party I agree with but who doesn't visibly do anything. When it comes to MPs I think things change a bit as it is more tactical. People who voted green today for example are likely to vote a bigger party as they'll not have confidence of greens winning and will feel their vote is wasted.
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Post by Han Solo on May 5, 2023 23:55:52 GMT
Good for you mate. People should be more open minded about who they vote for. As you say there’s good and bad in both parties and people shouldn’t be so set in there ways. Surely it’s a good thing to be flexible and willing to change if you see something not working. The voting public should vote for the person they feel most connected too and who they think is the best man or woman for the job and the best when in post to support their community. Change can be a good thing if a country or community has got stagnant. It’ll be interesting to see how the dynamics change on this thread when Labour get in as those attacking the government will now be defending them and visa versa. It’s certainly an easier job to criticise those in power than defend them. Could be an interesting few years. It really feels like the right time for change and hopefully Starmer can deliver what he says. It’s certainly easy to criticise those in power when they’ve been the worst government we’ve had in living memory. Not doubting that but you never know what’s round the corner and I’m sure similar comments have been made many times before about other governments on their way out.
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Post by wannabee on May 6, 2023 0:21:41 GMT
It’s certainly easy to criticise those in power when they’ve been the worst government we’ve had in living memory. Not doubting that but you never know what’s round the corner and I’m sure similar comments have been made many times before about other governments on their way out. As you are an apolitical person, I'm interested, what are you actually basing this comment on?
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Post by gawa on May 6, 2023 2:04:36 GMT
Not doubting that but you never know what’s round the corner and I’m sure similar comments have been made many times before about other governments on their way out. As you are an apolitical person, I'm interested, what are you actually basing this comment on? I think he has a point in the sense that we still here about how labour crashed the economy due to the financial crisis around 08. Yet we know a lot of that was out of their control too. Now it's the tories in charge it's easy to snipe at their handling of the economy. The only difference for me between the two being the tories have mishandled the economy for much longer imo while allowing public services to get worse. But once labour take over or whoever else. They will be scrutinised a lot more than they are now because they'll become accountable.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 6, 2023 4:08:29 GMT
As you are an apolitical person, I'm interested, what are you actually basing this comment on? I think he has a point in the sense that we still here about how labour crashed the economy due to the financial crisis around 08. Yet we know a lot of that was out of their control too. Now it's the tories in charge it's easy to snipe at their handling of the economy. The only difference for me between the two being the tories have mishandled the economy for much longer imo while allowing public services to get worse. But once labour take over or whoever else. They will be scrutinised a lot more than they are now because they'll become accountable. I think the concept of financial waste and mismanagement regarding both parties is interesting. The Tories appear to have used COVID to line their own pockets and that of their donors and cronies. Whilst Labour squandered our money on Afghanistan and Iraq - www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/apr/23/how-much-britain-spent-military-interventionAgain the general public have no say in either of these things occurring, they're just 2 sides of the same coin. Democracy, the illusion of free will.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 6, 2023 6:12:31 GMT
As you are an apolitical person, I'm interested, what are you actually basing this comment on? I think he has a point in the sense that we still here about how labour crashed the economy due to the financial crisis around 08. Yet we know a lot of that was out of their control too. Now it's the tories in charge it's easy to snipe at their handling of the economy. The only difference for me between the two being the tories have mishandled the economy for much longer imo while allowing public services to get worse. But once labour take over or whoever else. They will be scrutinised a lot more than they are now because they'll become accountable. It’s not just the economy, we’ve had a succession of the dumbest, most self-interested, surface-level, damaging politicians, ones who’d never have been near a cabinet in normal times and whose only ‘quality’ was their loyalty to the useless knobber in no 10. I didn’t think we’d see a worse PM than May and then we had two in quick succession.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 6, 2023 6:22:18 GMT
I think he has a point in the sense that we still here about how labour crashed the economy due to the financial crisis around 08. Yet we know a lot of that was out of their control too. Now it's the tories in charge it's easy to snipe at their handling of the economy. The only difference for me between the two being the tories have mishandled the economy for much longer imo while allowing public services to get worse. But once labour take over or whoever else. They will be scrutinised a lot more than they are now because they'll become accountable. I think the concept of financial waste and mismanagement regarding both parties is interesting. The Tories appear to have used COVID to line their own pockets and that of their donors and cronies. Whilst Labour squandered our money on Afghanistan and Iraq - www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/apr/23/how-much-britain-spent-military-interventionAgain the general public have no say in either of these things occurring, they're just 2 sides of the same coin. Democracy, the illusion of free will. Brexit was, and crucially continues to be and will continue to be, much worse for the economy than both of your examples which at least were temporary. Brexit is completely tory made. They are entirely responsible for that disaster. The tories should never be trusted with power again.
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Post by Han Solo on May 6, 2023 6:49:47 GMT
I think the concept of financial waste and mismanagement regarding both parties is interesting. The Tories appear to have used COVID to line their own pockets and that of their donors and cronies. Whilst Labour squandered our money on Afghanistan and Iraq - www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/apr/23/how-much-britain-spent-military-interventionAgain the general public have no say in either of these things occurring, they're just 2 sides of the same coin. Democracy, the illusion of free will. Brexit was, and crucially continues to be and will continue to be, much worse for the economy than both of your examples which at least were temporary. Brexit is completely tory made. They are entirely responsible for that disaster. The tories should never be trusted with power again. No doubt that the Tories got Brexit very badly wrong but in the same breathe it shouldn’t be used as a free pass should Labour make mistakes when they’re in power. Is there a possibility that Labour might have a vote to get us back into Europe if they get in as seems likely?
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Post by str8outtahampton on May 6, 2023 6:58:55 GMT
Brexit was, and crucially continues to be and will continue to be, much worse for the economy than both of your examples which at least were temporary. Brexit is completely tory made. They are entirely responsible for that disaster. The tories should never be trusted with power again. No doubt that the Tories got Brexit very badly wrong but in the same breathe it shouldn’t be used as a free pass should Labour make mistakes when they’re in power. Is there a possibility that Labour might have a vote to get us back into Europe if they get in as seems likely? Zero chance I suspect for the time being. And zero chance in my lifetime. But give it time!
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Post by toppercorner on May 6, 2023 7:11:41 GMT
No doubt that the Tories got Brexit very badly wrong but in the same breathe it shouldn’t be used as a free pass should Labour make mistakes when they’re in power. Is there a possibility that Labour might have a vote to get us back into Europe if they get in as seems likely? Zero chance I suspect for the time being. And zero chance in my lifetime. But give it time! I genuinely think we'll be back in within the next 15 years. We're losing too much money, that is the bottom line. It's not sustainable to carry on with the country bleeding out £100bn a year, and all businesses going bust. And, the older generation which 'generally' voted for brexit - who had all the benefits of free movement and seamless business help from the EU - won't be around, whilst everyone who is 25 or under as of June, who had no say in their futures because of Brexit, will want them back.
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Post by oggyoggy on May 6, 2023 7:22:23 GMT
Brexit was, and crucially continues to be and will continue to be, much worse for the economy than both of your examples which at least were temporary. Brexit is completely tory made. They are entirely responsible for that disaster. The tories should never be trusted with power again. No doubt that the Tories got Brexit very badly wrong but in the same breathe it shouldn’t be used as a free pass should Labour make mistakes when they’re in power. Is there a possibility that Labour might have a vote to get us back into Europe if they get in as seems likely? Well that would be brilliant. But I don’t think they will return us to the EU. Labour will be judged if they get into power. Obviously. But the recent tory government have been the worst ever and they have led to 13 years of decimating the economy and public services with the fastest rate of redistributing wealth from the poor and middle to the rich that we have ever seen. They should all be banned from public office for vote suppression. Those involved in sleaze, in all sides of the house, should be banned from public office. We need MPs to be regulated by an independent body. We need a ban on second jobs, save for those in the public sector i.e people like labour MP Rosena Allin-Khan who is a part time doctor and MP. Above all, we need a democratic voting system.
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Post by toppercorner on May 6, 2023 8:36:43 GMT
made me laugh anyway
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Post by wannabee on May 6, 2023 9:15:13 GMT
As you are an apolitical person, I'm interested, what are you actually basing this comment on? I think he has a point in the sense that we still here about how labour crashed the economy due to the financial crisis around 08. Yet we know a lot of that was out of their control too. Now it's the tories in charge it's easy to snipe at their handling of the economy. The only difference for me between the two being the tories have mishandled the economy for much longer imo while allowing public services to get worse. But once labour take over or whoever else. They will be scrutinised a lot more than they are now because they'll become accountable. I'm sure he has which was why I was interested in hearing it from a person that has no interest in Politics and doesn't watch the news. I'm sure there are millions of people like that, quite possibly the majority, and I wondered how they formed Political opinions when it came to voting etc
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Post by Han Solo on May 6, 2023 9:25:18 GMT
As you are an apolitical person, I'm interested, what are you actually basing this comment on? I think he has a point in the sense that we still here about how labour crashed the economy due to the financial crisis around 08. Yet we know a lot of that was out of their control too. Now it's the tories in charge it's easy to snipe at their handling of the economy. The only difference for me between the two being the tories have mishandled the economy for much longer imo while allowing public services to get worse. But once labour take over or whoever else. They will be scrutinised a lot more than they are now because they'll become accountable. Excellent post mate. As the other poster said I don’t have the time or inclination to be an “expert” on politics so generally get my thoughts from snippets, first hand experience and from posters like yourself who are pretty rational. I guess we won’t know till it happens but it’ll be interesting to see how Keir Starmers received. If I’m honest I’ve only recently began to take more notice of him and he impresses me as he doesn’t come across as wanting to be the centre of attention like Boris. I’d much rather have someone who goes about their job quietly and efficiently after the last few years than someone who’s loud, incompetent or both like Johnson and Truss.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 6, 2023 10:37:42 GMT
No doubt that the Tories got Brexit very badly wrong but in the same breathe it shouldn’t be used as a free pass should Labour make mistakes when they’re in power. Is there a possibility that Labour might have a vote to get us back into Europe if they get in as seems likely? Well that would be brilliant. But I don’t think they will return us to the EU. Labour will be judged if they get into power. Obviously. But the recent tory government have been the worst ever and they have led to 13 years of decimating the economy and public services with the fastest rate of redistributing wealth from the poor and middle to the rich that we have ever seen. They should all be banned from public office for vote suppression. Those involved in sleaze, in all sides of the house, should be banned from public office. We need MPs to be regulated by an independent body. We need a ban on second jobs, save for those in the public sector i.e people like labour MP Rosena Allin-Khan who is a part time doctor and MP. Above all, we need a democratic voting system. Financially I'd agree. Socially I'd argue otherwise.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 6, 2023 10:46:21 GMT
For what it's worth I intend to vote for a councillor who is from a right wing party because he works tirelessly in the community. I'm sure there are some decent hard working tory councillors too. Good for you mate. People should be more open minded about who they vote for. As you say there’s good and bad in both parties and people shouldn’t be so set in there ways. Surely it’s a good thing to be flexible and willing to change if you see something not working. The voting public should vote for the person they feel most connected too and who they think is the best man or woman for the job and the best when in post to support their community. Change can be a good thing if a country or community has got stagnant. It’ll be interesting to see how the dynamics change on this thread when Labour get in as those attacking the government will now be defending them and visa versa. It’s certainly an easier job to criticise those in power than defend them. Could be an interesting few years. It really feels like the right time for change and hopefully Starmer can deliver what he says. I'm not sure that is necessarily the case. At least, I'd say your average Tory is much more inclined to adopt the kind of lickspittle, support their own side at all costs attitude than your average non-Tory voter does. Followyoudown being the classic example. For them, it's all about simply retaining power and fear of anyone else having any. In my experience, the non-Tory is much more likely to apply critical thinking regardless of whether it's "their side" or not, and much more bothered about delivery. Although, the irony is that, if and when Labour does get elected, your average Tory will suddenly become much more focussed on things that didn't bother them so much previously! You can see that difference on here readily enough. There are plenty of non-Tories who are very critical of Starmer's Labour. By contrast, the most damning criticism of their own government of the last 13 years that you get from the Tory voters (not that anyone admits to being one these days!) is "they're all the same anyway". Where I do agree with you is a shared desire to take politics back from 'charismatic', 'entertaining', 'funny', characters' to boring, dull, hopefully efficient and reliable leaders whose mo is simply about trying to do the right thing for as many people as possible, not just personal aggrandisement. I don't really care what colour is in Downing St if that is the approach, at least they'd be doing it for more of the right reasons. For the precise absence of that approach, the last five years in particular have been a real low point in British governance.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 6, 2023 10:49:33 GMT
Good for you mate. People should be more open minded about who they vote for. As you say there’s good and bad in both parties and people shouldn’t be so set in there ways. Surely it’s a good thing to be flexible and willing to change if you see something not working. The voting public should vote for the person they feel most connected too and who they think is the best man or woman for the job and the best when in post to support their community. Change can be a good thing if a country or community has got stagnant. It’ll be interesting to see how the dynamics change on this thread when Labour get in as those attacking the government will now be defending them and visa versa. It’s certainly an easier job to criticise those in power than defend them. Could be an interesting few years. It really feels like the right time for change and hopefully Starmer can deliver what he says. I'm not sure that is necessarily the case. At least, I'd say your average Tory is much more inclined to adopt the kind of lickspittle, support their own side at all costs attitude than your average non-Tory voter does. Followyoudown being the classic example. For them, it's all about simply retaining power and fear of anyone else having any. In my experience, the non-Tory is much more likely to apply critical thinking regardless of whether it's "their side" or not, and much more bothered about delivery. Although, the irony is that, if and when Labour does get elected, your average Tory will suddenly become much more focussed on things that didn't bother them so much previously! You can see that difference on here readily enough. There are plenty of non-Tories who are very critical of Starmer's Labour. By contrast, the most damning criticism of their own government of the last 13 years that you get from the Tory voters (not that anyone admits to being one these days!) is "they're all the same anyway". Where I do agree with you is a shared desire to take politics back from 'charismatic', 'entertaining', 'funny', characters' to boring, dull, hopefully efficient and reliable leaders whose mo is simply about trying to do the right thing for as many people as possible, not just personal aggrandisement. I don't really care what colour is in Downing St if that is the approach, at least they'd be doing it for more of the right reasons. For the precise absence of that approach, the last five years in particular have been a real low point in British governance. Good politicians are like good referees. You don't notice their involvement in the game.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 7, 2023 6:56:47 GMT
Back to reality. Shameless. Utterly shameless.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 7, 2023 11:43:03 GMT
I seem to remember a certain new PM claiming that his government would be one of integrity, that it would do things differently from the previous two calamitous efforts led by Truss and Bozo...yet, here we are again...who's she? Some no mark minister wheeled out to face the cameras and take the shit while Sunak and the rest of the Cabinet hide away...what's changed? Zip, so far, by the looks of it... www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65516974
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Post by gawa on May 7, 2023 12:38:04 GMT
Back to reality. Shameless. Utterly shameless. She'll always be my countdown queen. Fuck Rachel riely.
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Post by AlliG on May 7, 2023 19:54:28 GMT
Apologies for posting a link to this rag, but wtf? Penny Mordant is now a contender to replace Sunak because she remembered not to hold the sword by the pointy end! Even by our very low expectations of the current government that is scraping the bottom of a very, very deep barrel! What
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on May 7, 2023 20:36:41 GMT
As poor as the current government have become the polls are predicting Labour will win the next election but without an overall majority....how poor are Labour if they can't get an overall majority at this point.
...get ready for another coalition with the lib dems or worse the snp, with labour's policies compromised to appease their coalition partners
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Post by lordb on May 7, 2023 20:48:42 GMT
As poor as the current government have become the polls are predicting Labour will win the next election but without an overall majority....how poor are Labour if they can't get an overall majority at this point. ...get ready for another coalition with the lib dems or worse the snp, with labour's policies compromised to appease their coalition partners Thats not factoring in the inevitable swing from SNP to Labour Should be around 20 seats won back for Labour that should push them over the line for a majority given the gains elsewhere
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2023 21:14:33 GMT
As poor as the current government have become the polls are predicting Labour will win the next election but without an overall majority....how poor are Labour if they can't get an overall majority at this point. ...get ready for another coalition with the lib dems or worse the snp, with labour's policies compromised to appease their coalition partners Thats not factoring in the inevitable swing from SNP to Labour Should be around 20 seats won back for Labour that should push them over the line for a majority given the gains elsewhere Still has a feeling of relying on everyone else to be a worse choice rather than being strong enough to be worth voting for though. It feels like Labour need a good win in the next GE and a good campaign as well. I do wonder if they can last as a serious contender if they don’t.
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Post by gawa on May 7, 2023 22:05:11 GMT
As poor as the current government have become the polls are predicting Labour will win the next election but without an overall majority....how poor are Labour if they can't get an overall majority at this point. ...get ready for another coalition with the lib dems or worse the snp, with labour's policies compromised to appease their coalition partners Thats not factoring in the inevitable swing from SNP to Labour Should be around 20 seats won back for Labour that should push them over the line for a majority given the gains elsewhere Is it really that inevitable though? Independance has grown hugely in support in Scotland over the last decade and it's a top priority for alot of the SNP voters. Similar in a way to how alot of Sinn Fien voters also want Irish Unification. Both Conservative and Labour are ruling out another Independance vote. I'm not sure if the current SNP scandal is big enough to make voters switch to labour. Those SNP voters will have a bigger say if they keep their vote on SNP and then prop up a minority labour government. Whereas if they all go labour it won't be worth as much imo
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Post by wannabee on May 7, 2023 22:08:43 GMT
Apologies for posting a link to this rag, but wtf? Penny Mordant is now a contender to replace Sunak because she remembered not to hold the sword by the pointy end! Even by our very low expectations of the current government that is scraping the bottom of a very, very deep barrel! WhatJust The Fail stirring the loins of their readership While Penny may be popular in her Boudica like pose her "Breeding" and "Wokeness" disqualify her from holding the highest office If/when Rishi their unpopular but expediant choice of Leader, loses the GE he and they will mutually decide to part company to make way for a full bore and nakedly racist Kemi. Obviously this will come as a major disappointment to the equally ambitious but more stupid Cruella
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