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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jul 26, 2017 8:24:50 GMT
You're an absolute fucking idiot if you think we aren't going bring any players in this window It the quality of the players that come in that most are worried about. We now need some element of experience in key positions but at the same time these can't be 30 year old + signings who work as a stop gap. So how many right backs aged between say 22-25 with a minimum of 50+ top flight games are available, and secondly going to come here? ...and that's before we've even looked at what they will cost.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jul 26, 2017 8:29:07 GMT
Wonder if Burnley would be willing to take crouch off our hands? People wanted dads army gone. One by one they are going and still they moan. Only issue I have with Bardsley going......the wrong fookin right back has been sold. A new right back.....or Edwards as fost choice (looks a decent prospect)...with Bards as back up would be ok in my book. Johnson as our starting right back is stuff of nightmares. He is a busted flush. Another mind-boggling decision from hughes! Just need him to continue with headless chicken Allen at No10 and my head will explode!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 8:51:18 GMT
Stupid sale from us, he is hardly expensive to keep and offers important cover for Johnson (who is still our best RB), an excellent signing for Burnley.
The likes of Bardsley, Whelan and Walters will always put a shift in, maybe they are all past their best but I think we will miss their attitude.
I can only assume we have big transfer plans before August is out, or maybe Diouf is happy playing RB.
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Post by stokefanone on Jul 26, 2017 9:34:19 GMT
No pleasing football fans is there? We keep moaning about not giving the youngsters a chance, and now that Hughes has obviously decided to use them, he needs to let the older players leave. If he had kept hold of Whelan, Walters and Bardsley, there would be moans of not giving the kids a chance. I think that rightly or wrongly, time will tell, Hughes feels that he has youngsters ready to step up this season ( Verlinden, Ngoy, Edwards, Timis, Campbell Soutar and Sweeney). Lets hope he can now sign a couple of good internationals to give us a strong first eleven.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jul 26, 2017 10:06:46 GMT
Bardsley was OK and always gave 100%. He spent long periods of his time at Stoke on the treatment table and had not ripped up any trees in his final season at Sunderland, where they made no effort to keep him. In some of his games for us his positional sense was amateurish at best; his use of the ball was inaccurate and his tackling(whilst committed)often seemed likely to be leading towards dismissal.
Good, solid pro with a good attitude but far from irreplaceable and probably no better than 3rd/4th choice at RB for us last season behind Cameron, Diouf and, in my opinion, Glen Johnson.
Unlike our other departure to Burnley he didn't ask for a move and will therefore receive a brief, polite round of applause from me when I next see him play.
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Post by robstokie on Jul 26, 2017 11:10:13 GMT
Positives - this should allow Edwards a chance if Johnson fucks up, plus we have opened up a squad space.
Negatives - ridiculously low transfer fee, we have kept the wrong right-back, Sparky will probably persist with Johnson even if he is consistently shit, plump for GCam over Edwards if Johnson does get dropped and we will fill the squad space with a centre-half who is underwhelming to say the least (no doubt it will be Bartley or Jagielka).
Why didn't we just let Johnson's contract run out? What makes it even worse is that it looked like he was gone at one point, yet Sparky/Scholars/Cartwright (delete as applicable) bust a gut to keep him - no doubt giving him a pay rise to stop him going to Wet Sham.
Not only is Johnson a liability, as last night showed, but if we wanted to cut wages, Johnson is probably on a much higher wage than Bards was. Alright, Bards wasn't a top right-back, but he was solid and consistent for us. He will, like SJW, do well for Burnley.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 26, 2017 11:22:25 GMT
I don't want to unduly negative, but even with a following wind, Edwards seems at least a year off being a viable option. He should be on loan in League One this year.
None of the defenders in the World Cup-winning England U20s are anywhere near their first teams and they're all 2 years older. Kenny at Everton is on the fringes for the first time, with 2 loan spells in the tank.
And it's the same story with the Euro-winning U19s.
We're talking about playing against Hazard, Arnie, Coutinho etc. The step up from the U18s is massive.
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Post by DelapsWankingArm on Jul 26, 2017 11:24:02 GMT
You're an absolute fucking idiot if you think we aren't going bring any players in this window It the quality of the players that come in that most are worried about. We now need some element of experience in key positions but at the same time these can't be 30 year old + signings who work as a stop gap. So how many right backs aged between say 22-25 with a minimum of 50+ top flight games are available, and secondly going to come here? ...and that's before we've even looked at what they will cost. Can't be 30+ you say, well we've just got rid of 4 players over the age of 30. People wanted Hughes to give youth a chance, that's what he's doing.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Jul 26, 2017 11:25:12 GMT
I don't want to unduly negative, but even with a following wind, Edwards seems at least a year off being a viable option. He should be on loan in League One this year. None of the defenders in the World Cup-winning England U20s are anywhere near their first teams. Kenny at Everton is on the fringes for the first time, and he's 2 years older with 2 loan spells in the tank. And it's the same story with the Euro-winning U19s. We're talking about playing against Hazard, Arnie, Coutinho etc. The step up from the U18s is massive. Agree Hughes's statement re Edwards as a viable option, this letting Phil go just doesn't ring true. Johnson as number one choice makes no sense as he has started off his pre season as badly as he ended last season
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Post by DelapsWankingArm on Jul 26, 2017 11:25:15 GMT
I don't want to unduly negative, but even with a following wind, Edwards seems at least a year off being a viable option. He should be on loan in League One this year. None of the defenders in the World Cup-winning England U20s are anywhere near their first teams and they're all 2 years older. Kenny at Everton is on the fringes for the first time, with 2 loan spells in the tank. And it's the same story with the Euro-winning U19s. We're talking about playing against Hazard, Arnie, Coutinho etc. The step up from the U18s is massive. Don't ever put Arnie in the same sentence as Hazard & Coutinho
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 26, 2017 11:26:04 GMT
It the quality of the players that come in that most are worried about. We now need some element of experience in key positions but at the same time these can't be 30 year old + signings who work as a stop gap. So how many right backs aged between say 22-25 with a minimum of 50+ top flight games are available, and secondly going to come here? ...and that's before we've even looked at what they will cost. Can't be 30+ you say, well we've just got rid of 4 players over the age of 30. People wanted Hughes to give youth a chance, that's what he's doing. You do have to be extra-special and extra-mature to be up-to-it at 18 though. 20/21, after a couple of loans, is another matter.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 26, 2017 11:27:11 GMT
I don't want to unduly negative, but even with a following wind, Edwards seems at least a year off being a viable option. He should be on loan in League One this year. None of the defenders in the World Cup-winning England U20s are anywhere near their first teams and they're all 2 years older. Kenny at Everton is on the fringes for the first time, with 2 loan spells in the tank. And it's the same story with the Euro-winning U19s. We're talking about playing against Hazard, Arnie, Coutinho etc. The step up from the U18s is massive. Don't ever put Arnie in the same sentence as Hazard & Coutinho He's not in their league. Just making the point that even the mid-table teams have physically strong players who would destroy a raw 18-year-old - even one as promising as Edwards.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jul 26, 2017 11:28:59 GMT
If we start the season with Johnson as first choice right back it's going to be a long season.
He was worse than woeful last year.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jul 26, 2017 11:30:49 GMT
Don't ever put Arnie in the same sentence as Hazard & Coutinho He's not in their league. Just making the point that even the mid-table teams have physically strong players who would destroy a raw 18-year-old - even one as promising as Edwards. Remember Jon Walters destroying Aaron Creswell when he first stepped into the premier league. Sometimes players need destroying to grow.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 26, 2017 11:31:43 GMT
It the quality of the players that come in that most are worried about. We now need some element of experience in key positions but at the same time these can't be 30 year old + signings who work as a stop gap. So how many right backs aged between say 22-25 with a minimum of 50+ top flight games are available, and secondly going to come here? ...and that's before we've even looked at what they will cost. Can't be 30+ you say, well we've just got rid of 4 players over the age of 30. People wanted Hughes to give youth a chance, that's what he's doing. There is a distinct difference between giving youth a chance and selling assets and replacing them with youngsters whose only proven merit is they are cheaper . Not one of our young players Ramadan included has given any indication they are good enough , indeed the full backs v monaco and Sheffield united have demonstrated real regression from the current two many of whom think are woefully inadequate themselves , right now we remind me of Steve Keens Blackburn vastly reduced cost with a ideal that is based on no factual basis of performance and destined for a £100m reduction in revenues
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 26, 2017 11:34:13 GMT
He's not in their league. Just making the point that even the mid-table teams have physically strong players who would destroy a raw 18-year-old - even one as promising as Edwards. Remember Jon Walters destroying Aaron Creswell when he first stepped into the premier league. Sometimes players need destroying to grow. True - but better for us if that happened in League One. Then maybe the Championship next year if he passes that test? Cresswell was 24 with 200 lower-league games under his belt at that stage too! Hopefully the Championship is where Sweeney will end up this year? He seems to have passed the League 1 test with flying colours, but he's 20 and a lot more experienced
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Post by andylgr on Jul 26, 2017 11:44:40 GMT
Don't ever put Arnie in the same sentence as Hazard & Coutinho He's not in their league. Just making the point that even the mid-table teams have physically strong players who would destroy a raw 18-year-old - even one as promising as Edwards. Isn't it funny how football seems to have changed, it doesn't seem that long ago that we'd regularly see a 16 year old making his debut for us and he'd be homegrown at that. These days they're not ready til they're early 20's (or 28 if you're Pulis). Whilst Bardsley isn't a world beater I think he was still our best right back at the club, arguably even the best one we've had in the Premier league era maybe. But whats concerning is that British core to the team thats been sold over the last few weeks, players who will dig in for you when needed. One of the big criticisms of the last 2 seasons has been our perceived lack of desire and grit, so far only Fletcher has come in who could fit into that category. This is a massive transfer window for us.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jul 26, 2017 11:49:03 GMT
Remember Jon Walters destroying Aaron Creswell when he first stepped into the premier league. Sometimes players need destroying to grow. True - but better for us if that happened in League One. Then maybe the Championship next year if he passes that test? Cresswell was 24 with 200 lower-league games under his belt at that stage too! Hopefully the Championship is where Sweeney will end up this year? He seems to have passed the League 1 test with flying colours, but he's 20 and a lot more experienced Didn't realise he was that old to be fair. Anyway, we saw a 33 year old Johnson get destroyed enough times last season so throwing an 18 year old in can't be any worse can it? 😄
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Post by superheroantonius on Jul 26, 2017 11:58:41 GMT
We need some muscle And some attitude and we need it bad
Whelan walters and Bard's gone makes us ultra light weight
You might get the odd light weight player who is very fast very good and very effective but I am not sure I would Bera Bojan and imbula in that category. Shaq I would, on a good day.
We need some Antonio arnie type players before the season kicks off or we are going to get battered off the park
Either that, or hughes will have to change his mind about diouf and Ramadan and put them in his starting eleven.
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Post by metalhead on Jul 26, 2017 11:58:47 GMT
No pleasing football fans is there? We keep moaning about not giving the youngsters a chance, and now that Hughes has obviously decided to use them, he needs to let the older players leave. If he had kept hold of Whelan, Walters and Bardsley, there would be moans of not giving the kids a chance. I think that rightly or wrongly, time will tell, Hughes feels that he has youngsters ready to step up this season ( Verlinden, Ngoy, Edwards, Timis, Campbell Soutar and Sweeney). Lets hope he can now sign a couple of good internationals to give us a strong first eleven. I would have kept Bardsley and fucked off Johnson.
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Post by professorplump on Jul 26, 2017 12:13:26 GMT
A couple of months ago loads of people were complaining about the age of our squad. The label 'Dads Army' was trotted out many times. Now we have started to sell some of the older players and guess what, everyone's complaining. Reading some of the above posts, anyone would think we had just sold Roberto Carlos not Phil Bardsley. I like Bardsley but he is not the future and his time was up. I would like to see Johnson sold as well, and I think that will happen, either in this window or in January, but you can't sell a player until another club wants to buy him. Yes they could have let his contract run out but at a club where money is tight they clearly want to try and get a fee for him.
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Post by AlliG on Jul 26, 2017 12:39:16 GMT
He's not in their league. Just making the point that even the mid-table teams have physically strong players who would destroy a raw 18-year-old - even one as promising as Edwards. Isn't it funny how football seems to have changed, it doesn't seem that long ago that we'd regularly see a 16 year old making his debut for us and he'd be homegrown at that. These days they're not ready til they're early 20's (or 28 if you're Pulis). . Go on. I will take the bait. I can recall Steve Parkin (early 80s)and Gerry Bridgwood (early/mid 60s) but am struggling to recall any others (Ollie Shenton had 30 seconds at the end of a cup match). Either you are absolutely ancient or the you are using the astronomical definition of regularly.
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Post by lordb on Jul 26, 2017 12:42:02 GMT
Isn't it funny how football seems to have changed, it doesn't seem that long ago that we'd regularly see a 16 year old making his debut for us and he'd be homegrown at that. These days they're not ready til they're early 20's (or 28 if you're Pulis). . Go on. I will take the bait. I can recall Steve Parkin (early 80s)and Gerry Bridgwood (early/mid 60s) but am struggling to recall any others (Ollie Shenton had 30 seconds at the end of a cup match). Either you are absolutely ancient or the you are using the astronomical definition of regularly. 16 has probably always been exceptionally young however you did used to see teenagers given games. What helped with that was a 22 team 1st division which meant relegation was less likely so not every game was as win at all costs as it is now.
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Post by metalhead on Jul 26, 2017 12:47:40 GMT
A couple of months ago loads of people were complaining about the age of our squad. The label 'Dads Army' was trotted out many times. Now we have started to sell some of the older players and guess what, everyone's complaining. Reading some of the above posts, anyone would think we had just sold Roberto Carlos not Phil Bardsley. I like Bardsley but he is not the future and his time was up. I would like to see Johnson sold as well, and I think that will happen, either in this window or in January, but you can't sell a player until another club wants to buy him. Yes they could have let his contract run out but at a club where money is tight they clearly want to try and get a fee for him. I think the feeling across the board is, Johnson and Bardlsey.... neither of those are great right backs, but if you keep one, you keep Bardsley. Instead, we've sold Bardsley and kept the single biggest weak link in our team last season.... and by the looks of it, we've got a super talented youngster fucking shadowing him. Mind boggling. If Hughes is planning on playing Tom Edwards then I hold my hands up and admit I'm wrong, but from everything I've seen, his plan is to play Johnson. Fucking madness.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 26, 2017 12:52:39 GMT
This is quite an interesting list. And take away Rashford (1700 minutes) and Tom Davies (1100 minutes) and no teenager really had any impact in the league. Tymon, Holgate and Lookman all got about 250 minutes.
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Post by andylgr on Jul 27, 2017 11:27:06 GMT
Isn't it funny how football seems to have changed, it doesn't seem that long ago that we'd regularly see a 16 year old making his debut for us and he'd be homegrown at that. These days they're not ready til they're early 20's (or 28 if you're Pulis). . Go on. I will take the bait. I can recall Steve Parkin (early 80s)and Gerry Bridgwood (early/mid 60s) but am struggling to recall any others (Ollie Shenton had 30 seconds at the end of a cup match). Either you are absolutely ancient or the you are using the astronomical definition of regularly. Yep the last 30 years seems to have gone by in the blink of an eye. The 80's only seems like yesterday to me I think I was pushing it a bit using aged 16 as an example when I'm really talking about teenagers coming through the youth system with some degree of regularity to make their debuts like Steve Parkin, Graham Shaw, Phil Heath, Ian Painter, Chris Hemmings, Steve Bould. In later years off the top of my head I can think of Andy Griffin in the 90's and there was a crop of lads under Durban when we went down in the 90's that made a few appearances then disappeared, but I forget their names. Martin Paterson was an exception but didn't last long. Nowadays players aren't being considered ready until they're early 20's it seems.
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Post by Bojan Krkic on Jul 27, 2017 20:59:28 GMT
I hope that now Bardsley has gone..Johnson changes his shirt number to the number 2..it annoys me so much to see a full back wearing the number 8!
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Post by owdestokie on Aug 4, 2017 21:48:46 GMT
Isn't it funny how football seems to have changed, it doesn't seem that long ago that we'd regularly see a 16 year old making his debut for us and he'd be homegrown at that. These days they're not ready til they're early 20's (or 28 if you're Pulis).
"That long ago. 16 year year old". Not disputing your statement, would appreciate reminders
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Post by PotteringThrough on Aug 4, 2017 21:56:34 GMT
I think Edwards will step up and make it his position by the end of the season.
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Post by darksideofthemoon on Aug 4, 2017 22:10:22 GMT
I don't want to unduly negative, but even with a following wind, Edwards seems at least a year off being a viable option. He should be on loan in League One this year. None of the defenders in the World Cup-winning England U20s are anywhere near their first teams and they're all 2 years older. Kenny at Everton is on the fringes for the first time, with 2 loan spells in the tank. And it's the same story with the Euro-winning U19s. We're talking about playing against Hazard, Arnie, Coutinho etc. The step up from the U18s is massive. Don't ever put Arnie in the same sentence as Hazard & Coutinho
OMG.......that did make me laugh!!!!!!!!!
Mentioning Arnie in the same sentence as Hazard and Coutinho
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