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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 2, 2019 8:51:49 GMT
No , start reading at page 250 and you will be up to date. Basically , there's been a referendum , We voted out. The losers can't accept losing. Are they still blarting? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 8:52:08 GMT
This idea that the Conservatives aren't playing party politics is ridiculous. The only reason he is pushing for a no deal Brexit is because he hopes to regain enough votes from the Brexit Party for the Conservatives to regain power at the next election. If they were ahead in the polls with a majority, he would not be going for no deal Brexit. In fact the whole timing of May's departure was perfectly done to allow the least parliamentary scrutiny possible - with a summer recess and the opportunity to prorogue parliament. From a purely political point of view, it's a shrewd move if your main aim is self-preservation of the party. It's a dogshit situation for the country though. Of course this plays at odd with the idea that any Brexiteers are an honourable, upstanding bunch, as opposed to those lying, scheming Leaver politicians who are playing party politics - so it is unpalatable to some of the more extreme people on the Brexit side of the debate. As I said before - if/when the vote of no confidence comes then it will be a big decision to make for the Conservative politicians. Are they interested in power at whatever the cost, or are they interested in upholding the structure of democracy in the UK? Where would you personally like to go from here, Rip? |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 2, 2019 8:56:41 GMT
This idea that the Conservatives aren't playing party politics is ridiculous. The only reason he is pushing for a no deal Brexit is because he hopes to regain enough votes from the Brexit Party for the Conservatives to regain power at the next election. If they were ahead in the polls with a majority, he would not be going for no deal Brexit. In fact the whole timing of May's departure was perfectly done to allow the least parliamentary scrutiny possible - with a summer recess and the opportunity to prorogue parliament. From a purely political point of view, it's a shrewd move if your main aim is self-preservation of the party. It's a dogshit situation for the country though. Of course this plays at odd with the idea that any Brexiteers are an honourable, upstanding bunch, as opposed to those lying, scheming Leaver politicians who are playing party politics - so it is unpalatable to some of the more extreme people on the Brexit side of the debate. As I said before - if/when the vote of no confidence comes then it will be a big decision to make for the Conservative politicians. Are they interested in power at whatever the cost, or are they interested in upholding the structure of democracy in the UK? For once Rip C I agree with some of that. Some Tories are also indeed are playing party politics....I suppose that's another thing that Farage has in his favour. The thing is by trying to deliver BREXIT property and if Boris Indeed does do he would have cemented his party as the deliverers of BREXIT, honouring the referendum and enhancing the party as s whole....in other words giving the impression of a " good" party, a traditional party who at last can be trusted ( everything else that he does will be secondary and forgiven,)....the other parties are simply playing politics and nothing more....nit interested in delivering what the people voted for...."Bollox to brexit, Bollox to the people".... perhaps Labour ought to run with that to steal a march on the Lib Dems. I'm not sure the Conservatives are giving the impression they can be trusted. Look how many people (including Boris Johnson) ruled out proroguing parliament, and are now in favour of it. Don't get me wrong, pretty much all politicians are shithouse liars, and Johnson and the Conservatives fall into that as well of course. There's not a single party that isn't playing party politics - from the Brexit Party to the Greens. You don't succeed in politics (at least in a democracy) without tactically planning your party's strategy to gain the most seats/support possible. |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 2, 2019 8:58:52 GMT
Mo - stop bleating. This country is not living under a right wing dictatorship. It’s facile to say so. The most right wing cabinet in history closing down Parliament, threatening to disobey the law if they don't like it and threatening to sack people who disagree with them. I know what I'm looking at and it's vile and disgusting. Exaggeration does not add weight to an argument - it diminishes it. Oh - interesting to see you so concerned about sacking people who don’t follow the party line. I don’t recall you complaining about the use of the same tactics by Momentum. |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 2, 2019 9:00:27 GMT
There is no bigger question than stopping swivel eyed right wing loons seizing power, closing down debate and ignoring the law of rule. Rule of law, surely? 😜 Wasn't it law that we would leave on no deal terms under Article 50 if no deal was agreed? Genuine question, because my head is going with all this! 😁 I guess the question is whether or not, in some circumstances, it is lawful to break the law.  |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 9:04:32 GMT
The most right wing cabinet in history closing down Parliament, threatening to disobey the law if they don't like it and threatening to sack people who disagree with them. I know what I'm looking at and it's vile and disgusting. Exaggeration does not add weight to an argument - it diminishes it. Oh - interesting to see you so concerned about sacking people who don’t follow the party line. I don’t recall you complaining about the use of the same tactics by Momentum. 9 right wingers who defied a three line whip now threaten to sack people for defying a three line whip. It's an anti democratic right wing takeover. Ticks all the boxes. The media just looks on. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 9:04:41 GMT
For once Rip C I agree with some of that. Some Tories are also indeed are playing party politics....I suppose that's another thing that Farage has in his favour. The thing is by trying to deliver BREXIT property and if Boris Indeed does do he would have cemented his party as the deliverers of BREXIT, honouring the referendum and enhancing the party as s whole....in other words giving the impression of a " good" party, a traditional party who at last can be trusted ( everything else that he does will be secondary and forgiven,)....the other parties are simply playing politics and nothing more....nit interested in delivering what the people voted for...."Bollox to brexit, Bollox to the people".... perhaps Labour ought to run with that to steal a march on the Lib Dems. I'm not sure the Conservatives are giving the impression they can be trusted. Look how many people (including Boris Johnson) ruled out proroguing parliament, and are now in favour of it. Don't get me wrong, pretty much all politicians are shithouse liars, and Johnson and the Conservatives fall into that as well of course. There's not a single party that isn't playing party politics - from the Brexit Party to the Greens. You don't succeed in politics (at least in a democracy) without tactically planning your party's strategy to gain the most seats/support possible. I don't trust the Tories, it remains to be seen if they deliver true BREXIT. At least Farage wants to do himself out of a job in respect of the EU Parliament and he was quick to abandon UKIP when it went in a direction that he did not like. The success of the BREXIT party has surprised him..... depending upon what transpires he may be encouraged to give the BREXIT party a go in the UK elections irrespective of other issues....the prospective candidates are a breath of fresh air compared to the stale dull party career politicians |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 2, 2019 9:28:24 GMT
This idea that the Conservatives aren't playing party politics is ridiculous. The only reason he is pushing for a no deal Brexit is because he hopes to regain enough votes from the Brexit Party for the Conservatives to regain power at the next election. If they were ahead in the polls with a majority, he would not be going for no deal Brexit. In fact the whole timing of May's departure was perfectly done to allow the least parliamentary scrutiny possible - with a summer recess and the opportunity to prorogue parliament. From a purely political point of view, it's a shrewd move if your main aim is self-preservation of the party. It's a dogshit situation for the country though. Of course this plays at odd with the idea that any Brexiteers are an honourable, upstanding bunch, as opposed to those lying, scheming Leaver politicians who are playing party politics - so it is unpalatable to some of the more extreme people on the Brexit side of the debate. As I said before - if/when the vote of no confidence comes then it will be a big decision to make for the Conservative politicians. Are they interested in power at whatever the cost, or are they interested in upholding the structure of democracy in the UK? Where would you personally like to go from here, Rip? A general election. If parliament is the problem (and it is a problem, but not sure it's the only one) in delivering Brexit then change the parliament. Better that than by-passing it, in my opinion. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 9:36:16 GMT
Where would you personally like to go from here, Rip? A general election. If parliament is the problem (and it is a problem, but not sure it's the only one) in delivering Brexit then change the parliament. Better that than by-passing it, in my opinion. Thus killing Brexit, unless Farage teams up with Johnson. I think that's been the idea all along, for all the posturing. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 2, 2019 9:38:43 GMT
I'm not sure the Conservatives are giving the impression they can be trusted. Look how many people (including Boris Johnson) ruled out proroguing parliament, and are now in favour of it. Don't get me wrong, pretty much all politicians are shithouse liars, and Johnson and the Conservatives fall into that as well of course. There's not a single party that isn't playing party politics - from the Brexit Party to the Greens. You don't succeed in politics (at least in a democracy) without tactically planning your party's strategy to gain the most seats/support possible. I don't trust the Tories, it remains to be seen if they deliver true BREXIT. At least Farage wants to do himself out of a job in respect of the EU Parliament and he was quick to abandon UKIP when it went in a direction that he did not like. The success of the BREXIT party has surprised him..... depending upon what transpires he may be encouraged to give the BREXIT party a go in the UK elections irrespective of other issues....the prospective candidates are a breath of fresh air compared to the stale dull party career politicians Last I saw (and that was a long time ago) the Brexit Party candidates looked similar to the rest - Farage, Rees-Mogg and Widdecombe are all career politicians, people like Tice have been on the political scene (behind the scenes) for a while, and the guy they put up in Peterborough left a lot to be desired in terms of saying anything of anything note. Of course, none of that will matter to some. If they are pro-Brexit then they'll be classed as good, honest politicians who rally against the Establishment despite the fact by-and-large they are part of it. I briefly read something about the fact that they opened up the selection procedure to all their members, potentially offering them a chance to become a politician for about 50 quid (if I remember the figure correctly), but despite taking the money it appears very few "average Joes" have actually been selected. I'm sure there's a few in there like every party, but no more than any other party in my opinion. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 2, 2019 9:41:48 GMT
A general election. If parliament is the problem (and it is a problem, but not sure it's the only one) in delivering Brexit then change the parliament. Better that than by-passing it, in my opinion. Thus killing Brexit, unless Farage teams up with Johnson. I think that's been the idea all along, for all the posturing. Looking at the most recent polls I don't think it would kill Brexit, I actually think it would probably result in a stronger Conservative government (probably propped up by the Brexit Party) - which would result in either a very hard Brexit or a no deal Brexit. I wouldn't like that outcome, but I still think a general election is the best way forward. |
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Post by Miles Offside on Sept 2, 2019 9:58:34 GMT
Thus killing Brexit, unless Farage teams up with Johnson. I think that's been the idea all along, for all the posturing. Looking at the most recent polls I don't think it would kill Brexit, I actually think it would probably result in a stronger Conservative government (probably propped up by the Brexit Party) - which would result in either a very hard Brexit or a no deal Brexit. I wouldn't like that outcome, but I still think a general election is the best way forward. Or we could just park ourselves in the EEA/EFTA for a couple of years. That would allow us to keep trading with the EU as we do now while finalising FTAs with the EU and the Americans. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 10:01:46 GMT
Thus killing Brexit, unless Farage teams up with Johnson. I think that's been the idea all along, for all the posturing. Looking at the most recent polls I don't think it would kill Brexit, I actually think it would probably result in a stronger Conservative government (probably propped up by the Brexit Party) - which would result in either a very hard Brexit or a no deal Brexit. I wouldn't like that outcome, but I still think a general election is the best way forward. Doesn't it set a terrible precedent, though? Piss around for 3 years refusing to accept the referendum result at all(in some cases), or putting forward not Brexit Brexits(Labour)? Or not voting for May's Deal in a game of chicken(Sarah Champion and others)? I think calls for a second referendum have died down a bit, recently. Is it because they fear a greater victory for Brexit and would find it impossible to deny a 60-40 result? I think they see a general election resulting in a hung parliament? Who knows, though, you might be right, if Johnson and Farage join forces. Johnson has ruled it out already, but that means nowt when push comes to shove! |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 10:13:49 GMT
I don't trust the Tories, it remains to be seen if they deliver true BREXIT. At least Farage wants to do himself out of a job in respect of the EU Parliament and he was quick to abandon UKIP when it went in a direction that he did not like. The success of the BREXIT party has surprised him..... depending upon what transpires he may be encouraged to give the BREXIT party a go in the UK elections irrespective of other issues....the prospective candidates are a breath of fresh air compared to the stale dull party career politicians Last I saw (and that was a long time ago) the Brexit Party candidates looked similar to the rest - Farage, Rees-Mogg and Widdecombe are all career politicians, people like Tice have been on the political scene (behind the scenes) for a while, and the guy they put up in Peterborough left a lot to be desired in terms of saying anything of anything note. Of course, none of that will matter to some. If they are pro-Brexit then they'll be classed as good, honest politicians who rally against the Establishment despite the fact by-and-large they are part of it. I briefly read something about the fact that they opened up the selection procedure to all their members, potentially offering them a chance to become a politician for about 50 quid (if I remember the figure correctly), but despite taking the money it appears very few "average Joes" have actually been selected. I'm sure there's a few in there like every party, but no more than any other party in my opinion. C if you look at the list of candidates they sre largely ones who have not taken part in front line politics snd have not previously stood for parliament. there are more than the usual 650 who think that they are able to run the country....you know the Kinnocks, the Coopers, the Eton mob, the entitled.....a breath of fresh air. The thing they have in common is a belief in BREXIT and the sovereignty and independence of the UK, not a bad thing for a UK Politician. This man is interesting..." loaded" son of a miner. twitter.com/MartinDaubney?s=09 |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 2, 2019 10:14:33 GMT
BBC on full on Remainers platform shock! Blair earlier, now Corbyn!
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2019 10:19:33 GMT
Exaggeration does not add weight to an argument - it diminishes it. Oh - interesting to see you so concerned about sacking people who don’t follow the party line. I don’t recall you complaining about the use of the same tactics by Momentum. 9 right wingers who defied a three line whip now threaten to sack people for defying a three line whip. It's an anti democratic right wing takeover. Ticks all the boxes. The media just looks on. This should explain it for you momo |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 10:34:58 GMT
9 right wingers who defied a three line whip now threaten to sack people for defying a three line whip. It's an anti democratic right wing takeover. Ticks all the boxes. The media just looks on. This should explain it for you momo Utter bullshit that What a fucking hypocrite Baker is. An absolute shameless cunt. It's the same as top hat telling us that prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit. Its a hard right takeover, an anti democratic power grab. They're taking the piss in plain sight. Bastards. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 10:35:55 GMT
BBC on full on Remainers platform shock! Blair earlier, now Corbyn! I don't think showing a speech from the leader of the opposition constitutes bias! |
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 2, 2019 10:46:11 GMT
BBC on full on Remainers platform shock! Blair earlier, now Corbyn! This post takes some beating!!!....What a load of tosh. Shock horror, interview with the Leader of the Opposition. They must be taking over!!!!...I suppose they would prefer to interview our PM, if he wasn't so elusive when it comes to interviews and public scrutinisation. At least it gives us a break from the Jacob Rees-Mogg Show that we have to endure hourly. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 2, 2019 10:47:50 GMT
BBC on full on Remainers platform shock! Blair earlier, now Corbyn! I don't think showing a speech from the leader of the opposition constitutes bias! With all due respect, you wouldn't!  |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 2, 2019 10:48:41 GMT
BBC on full on Remainers platform shock! Blair earlier, now Corbyn! This post takes some beating!!!....What a load of tosh. Shock horror, interview with the Leader of the Opposition. They must be taking over!!!!...I suppose they would prefer to interview our PM, if he wasn't so elusive when it comes to interviews and public scrutinisation. At least it gives us a break from the Jacob Rees-Mogg Show that we have to endure hourly. Confirmation bias! |
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Post by salopstick on Sept 2, 2019 10:49:30 GMT
If MPs had done there job in the first place there would be no need for this.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 2, 2019 10:58:01 GMT
BBC on full on Remainers platform shock! Blair earlier, now Corbyn! I don't think showing a speech from the leader of the opposition constitutes bias! Indeed. And he ain't even a remainer - more like an Inbetweener. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 11:00:35 GMT
I put 5 Live on for a change, earlier. They were at Preston market, and they interviewed a florist, who was born before the Second World War. The interviewer pressed her on tariffs on flowers from the Netherlands, and she said we have been through worse, and we will cope. He tried again, but she wasn't moving, and said it might mean she would get English flowers for her stall. He seemed really put out at this. It's nonsense to say that there's no bias, it's fucking everywhere!
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 2, 2019 11:03:43 GMT
For those who are still happy to be led on this merry dance by the likes the Rees-Mogg's. From his very own publication. Attachment Deleted'The state will consequently become obsolete as a political entity. Out of this wreckage will emerge a new global dispensation in which a 'cognitive elite' will rise to power and influence as a class of sovereign individuals "commanding vastly greater resources" who will no longer be subject to the power of nation states and will redesign governments to suit their ends." Rees-Mogg 1997 In other words you plebs can forget your fancy ideas of regaining your sovereignty. It's not meant to be for the likes of you. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 11:04:04 GMT
I don't think showing a speech from the leader of the opposition constitutes bias! Indeed. And he ain't even a remainer - more like an Inbetweener. Shame, as I thought his speech was quite good. How much was practical, I don't know, but it was well delivered. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 11:13:12 GMT
For those who are still happy to be led on this merry dance by the likes the Rees-Mogg's. From his very own publication. View Attachment'The state will consequently become obsolete as a political entity. Out of this wreckage will emerge a new global dispensation in which a 'cognitive elite' will rise to power and influence as a class of sovereign individuals "commanding vastly greater resources" who will no longer be subject to the power of nation states and will redesign governments to suit their ends." Rees-Mogg 1997 In other words you plebs can forget your fancy ideas of regaining your sovereignty. It's not meant to be for the likes of you. He seems to me to be accurately predicting in 1997 what he thinks is going to happen. He doesn't seem to be saying that he agrees with it . It may be that it is a warning and that he favours the nation state. |
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Post by lommack on Sept 2, 2019 11:16:12 GMT
I put 5 Live on for a change, earlier. They were at Preston market, and they interviewed a florist, who was born before the Second World War. The interviewer pressed her on tariffs on flowers from the Netherlands, and she said we have been through worse, and we will cope. He tried again, but she wasn't moving, and said it might mean she would get English flowers for her stall. He seemed really put out at this. It's nonsense to say that there's no bias, it's fucking everywhere! Perhaps she's well off and an couldn't care less? No context to the conversation. A no deal Brexit will harm more people than it benefits. I can't see for the life of me why people would be happy to make themselves poorer. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 2, 2019 11:19:18 GMT
So MP's who are returning from an almost 6 week Summer holiday are moaning their bag off because a new administration wants to end the longest session of Parliament (400 days) since the Civil War.
A new administration who want a Queens Speech to set out their domestic agenda as have every other new Government.
Porogueing Government for the 9th time in 14 years.
Shaving 3 days of debate off over 3 years of debate.
Meh.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 11:23:55 GMT
So MP's who are returning from an almost 6 week Summer holiday are moaning their bag off because a new administration wants to end the longest session of Parliament (400 days) since the Civil War. A new administration who want a Queens Speech to set out their domestic agenda as have every other new Government. Porogueing Government for the 9th time in 14 years. Shaving 3 days of debate off over 3 years of debate. Meh. They weren't demanding to come back from their hols, were they? Piss taking twats. |
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