|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 7:54:19 GMT
I don't think it is though Momo. Labour seem to have become incapable of listening and the extreme side of Labour seem to just keep repeating what you are saying. Reminds me very much of Militant in he 80s. Many of us would have liked to have voted Labour but I'm afraid that this lot seem to have become irrelevant. It's not just about the Tories, Labour need to show that they are better. They just don't seem credible anymore, even a bit hysterical. I can't stand the Lib Dems but at least they are clear on BREXIT. Which bit aren't you getting John? The enforced closure of parliament and shutting down scrutiny and debate? The threat to ignore the law of the land should legislation be passed this week The threat to sack MP's who don't agree with a very narrow blinkered entitled view of Brexit The main bit is the reluctance to deliver BREXIT, the attempt to thwart the decision of the referendum. That's where the problems begin. Secondly Corbyn himself has said that BREXIT is the biggest issue since the second world war... and yet the party have failed abysmally to take the opportunity to offer a truly radical vision ( the NHS did not appear by magic, it had to be conceived) and to capture the attention of the electorate. Not very inspiring. It's not enough to knock the evil Tories...... because for one thing Boris , in contrast to May, is showing leadership and claims that he will deliver BREXIT on 31 October..... obviously that remains to be seen.....but if he doesn't he might be in a strong position to go to the country because he can blame others ( Labour) for the failure. Labour have backed the wrong horse...ask Skinner. |
|
|
|
Post by Mendicant on Sept 2, 2019 8:00:01 GMT
Funny, but I have heard a lot of that from former Labour voters, who wouldn't vote for them now. A massive reason for the Brexit result was the arrogance of Labour not listening to their genuine concerns about levels of immigration, for instance. Something which John Mann warned the Labour leadership about. It fell on deaf ears. So the people I know, support workers, care workers (real working class people) are completely disillusioned with Labour, a party they thought supported them. Not one I know has No Deal as their major concern. Are you Brexit at any cost? I voted Remain fearing the costs of leaving. Even with No Deal as a possible outcome, the fact the FTSE 100 is 10% above its January level is reassuring when it comes to Britain's economic prospects. Investors and City analysts must believe that overall we'll be orate. The costs won't be that great. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 8:01:39 GMT
Which bit aren't you getting John? The enforced closure of parliament and shutting down scrutiny and debate? The threat to ignore the law of the land should legislation be passed this week The threat to sack MP's who don't agree with a very narrow blinkered entitled view of Brexit The main bit is the reluctance to deliver BREXIT, the attempt to thwart the decision of the referendum. That's where the problems begin. Secondly Corbyn himself has said that BREXIT is the biggest issue since the second world war... and yet the party have failed abysmally to take the opportunity to offer a truly radical vision ( the NHS did not appear by magic, it had to be conceived) and to capture the attention of the electorate. Not very inspiring. It's not enough to knock the evil Tories...... because for one thing Boris , in contrast to May, is showing leadership and claims that he will deliver BREXIT on 31 October..... obviously that remains to be seen.....but if he doesn't he might be in a strong position to go to the country because he can blame others ( Labour) for the failure. Labour have backed the wrong horse...ask Skinner. Living in a right wing dictatorship which disobeys the law doesn't concern you then? |
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Sept 2, 2019 8:03:46 GMT
& the Torys have got it right!?! At the moment Johnson is the only one ( in parliament) that has got it right on BREXIT....it remains to be seen if he can/ will deliver BREXIT. But the main issue at the moment is BREXIT, which is not party political. Oh yes it is. It’s a Tory dream that has done for 4 of their PM’s. |
|
|
|
Post by claytonscrubs on Sept 2, 2019 8:04:27 GMT
This post is for my ‘commie’ friend, Mr Critic/Critique...I know he likes me to ‘cut and paste’ 😉
I’ve said it before, it’s not looking good for racist gramps...fourth behind Don T Know again!! 😀
|
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Sept 2, 2019 8:05:37 GMT
Which bit aren't you getting John? The enforced closure of parliament and shutting down scrutiny and debate? The threat to ignore the law of the land should legislation be passed this week The threat to sack MP's who don't agree with a very narrow blinkered entitled view of Brexit The main bit is the reluctance to deliver BREXIT, the attempt to thwart the decision of the referendum. That's where the problems begin. Secondly Corbyn himself has said that BREXIT is the biggest issue since the second world war... and yet the party have failed abysmally to take the opportunity to offer a truly radical vision ( the NHS did not appear by magic, it had to be conceived) and to capture the attention of the electorate. Not very inspiring. It's not enough to knock the evil Tories...... because for one thing Boris , in contrast to May, is showing leadership and claims that he will deliver BREXIT on 31 October..... obviously that remains to be seen.....but if he doesn't he might be in a strong position to go to the country because he can blame others ( Labour) for the failure. Labour have backed the wrong horse...ask Skinner. Mo’s rose tinted specs have misted up. He just cannot see what is happening while he can only see the world as “Tory Bad”, “Labour Good”. Johnson is behaving exactly as you say. He is delivering Brexit - by any means necessary that are within the law. The same way his opponents are trying to stop Brexit. He is also being very clever - in a political sense. He is clearly preparing the ground for an election that could happen before Brexit and looking to neutralise the Brexit Party which is what threatening his rebel mps with deselection is about. Corbyn on the other hand still seems to believe he can sit on the fence and play Brexit as a party political issue. He is deluded. |
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Sept 2, 2019 8:07:01 GMT
The main bit is the reluctance to deliver BREXIT, the attempt to thwart the decision of the referendum. That's where the problems begin. Secondly Corbyn himself has said that BREXIT is the biggest issue since the second world war... and yet the party have failed abysmally to take the opportunity to offer a truly radical vision ( the NHS did not appear by magic, it had to be conceived) and to capture the attention of the electorate. Not very inspiring. It's not enough to knock the evil Tories...... because for one thing Boris , in contrast to May, is showing leadership and claims that he will deliver BREXIT on 31 October..... obviously that remains to be seen.....but if he doesn't he might be in a strong position to go to the country because he can blame others ( Labour) for the failure. Labour have backed the wrong horse...ask Skinner. Living in an right wing dictatorship which disobeys the law doesn't concern you then? Mo - stop bleating. This country is not living under a right wing dictatorship. It’s facile to say so. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 8:09:05 GMT
Living in an right wing dictatorship which disobeys the law doesn't concern you then? Mo - stop bleating. This country is not living under a right wing dictatorship. It’s facile to say so. The most right wing cabinet in history closing down Parliament, threatening to disobey the law if they don't like it and threatening to sack people who disagree with them. I know what I'm looking at and it's vile and disgusting. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 8:12:48 GMT
The main bit is the reluctance to deliver BREXIT, the attempt to thwart the decision of the referendum. That's where the problems begin. Secondly Corbyn himself has said that BREXIT is the biggest issue since the second world war... and yet the party have failed abysmally to take the opportunity to offer a truly radical vision ( the NHS did not appear by magic, it had to be conceived) and to capture the attention of the electorate. Not very inspiring. It's not enough to knock the evil Tories...... because for one thing Boris , in contrast to May, is showing leadership and claims that he will deliver BREXIT on 31 October..... obviously that remains to be seen.....but if he doesn't he might be in a strong position to go to the country because he can blame others ( Labour) for the failure. Labour have backed the wrong horse...ask Skinner. Living in an right wing dictatorship which disobeys the law doesn't concern you then? I don't think we are in a right wing dictatorship. I don't think that the British public think that we are in a right wing dictatorship. And the more that the " left' hysterically scream that we are and should take to the streets , the more they weaken their case, are likely to be labelled " loony left" and are a gift to those right of centre. I think ( hope) that Boris is trying to deliver BREXIT. The tactics that he is having to use to get there have been caused by the reluctance of some parliamentarians to accept the result and now, it seems, Corbyn, Lucas, Sturgeon and Swinson are playing party politics.....(as is Barnier on a different level). Ideally I don't think that Boris would want to nor should have to, use such tactics. A bigger question for Labour is " How do they hope to gain power again, especially post Brexit"..... |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 8:13:35 GMT
At the moment Johnson is the only one ( in parliament) that has got it right on BREXIT....it remains to be seen if he can/ will deliver BREXIT. But the main issue at the moment is BREXIT, which is not party political. Oh yes it is. It’s a Tory dream that has done for 4 of their PM’s. It is not just Tory, it's cross party and non party |
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 2, 2019 8:13:49 GMT
Have I missed anything?
|
|
|
|
Post by lommack on Sept 2, 2019 8:14:56 GMT
Are you Brexit at any cost? I would prefer a free trade deal, but I think our parliament trying to take no deal off the table weakens our hand in negotiating with the EU for one. I said it at the time when Corbyn and others started shouting about it. Any concerns about a no deal are shouted down instantly as project fear and dismissed out of hand. In fact only last week you described the fear of a grandmother not being able to get essential cancer drugs for her grandson as BBC bias Another poster said they would be ok (financially) following a no deal and understood that some may struggle but balls to em Brexit is now to important. A no deal Brexit has now become party political, it may come down to those who can survive it and those who can't, which is probably a natural neo liberal/ Tory ideology. Perhaps true colours are coming to the fore |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 8:17:35 GMT
No , start reading at page 250 and you will be up to date. Basically , there's been a referendum , We voted out. The losers can't accept losing. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 8:18:55 GMT
Living in an right wing dictatorship which disobeys the law doesn't concern you then? I don't think we are in a right wing dictatorship. I don't think that the British public think that we are in a right wing dictatorship. And the more that the " left' hysterically scream that we are and should take to the streets , the more they weaken their case, are likely to be labelled " loony left" and are a gift to those right of centre. I think ( hope) that Boris is trying to deliver BREXIT. The tactics that he is having to use to get there have been caused by the reluctance of some parliamentarians to accept the result and now, it seems, Corbyn, Lucas, Sturgeon and Swinson are playing party politics.....(as is Barnier on a different level). Ideally I don't think that Boris would want to nor should have to, use such tactics. A bigger question for Labour is " How do they hope to gain power again, especially post Brexit"..... There is no bigger question than stopping swivel eyed right wing loons seizing power, closing down debate and ignoring the rule of law. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 8:20:17 GMT
The main bit is the reluctance to deliver BREXIT, the attempt to thwart the decision of the referendum. That's where the problems begin. Secondly Corbyn himself has said that BREXIT is the biggest issue since the second world war... and yet the party have failed abysmally to take the opportunity to offer a truly radical vision ( the NHS did not appear by magic, it had to be conceived) and to capture the attention of the electorate. Not very inspiring. It's not enough to knock the evil Tories...... because for one thing Boris , in contrast to May, is showing leadership and claims that he will deliver BREXIT on 31 October..... obviously that remains to be seen.....but if he doesn't he might be in a strong position to go to the country because he can blame others ( Labour) for the failure. Labour have backed the wrong horse...ask Skinner. Living in a right wing dictatorship which disobeys the law doesn't concern you then? And Mo I'm more concerned about the EU dictatorship. I might have to post that great speech by Galloway again ( and i don't agree with everything that he says on other matters than BREXIT) |
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Sept 2, 2019 8:20:56 GMT
Dominic Cummings(not an MP)threatens to sack Tory MP’s for not backing any deal & he’s not even a member of the Tory Party  |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 2, 2019 8:21:19 GMT
This idea that the Conservatives aren't playing party politics is ridiculous. The only reason he is pushing for a no deal Brexit is because he hopes to regain enough votes from the Brexit Party for the Conservatives to regain power at the next election. If they were ahead in the polls with a majority, he would not be going for no deal Brexit. In fact the whole timing of May's departure was perfectly done to allow the least parliamentary scrutiny possible - with a summer recess and the opportunity to prorogue parliament. From a purely political point of view, it's a shrewd move if your main aim is self-preservation of the party. It's a dogshit situation for the country though.
Of course this plays at odd with the idea that any Brexiteers are an honourable, upstanding bunch, as opposed to those lying, scheming Leaver politicians who are playing party politics - so it is unpalatable to some of the more extreme people on the Brexit side of the debate.
As I said before - if/when the vote of no confidence comes then it will be a big decision to make for the Conservative politicians. Are they interested in power at whatever the cost, or are they interested in upholding the structure of democracy in the UK?
|
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 8:22:45 GMT
Dominic Cummings(not an MP)threatens to sack Tory MP’s for not backing any deal & he’s not even a member of the Tory Party Democracy Taking back control |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 8:25:22 GMT
I would prefer a free trade deal, but I think our parliament trying to take no deal off the table weakens our hand in negotiating with the EU for one. I said it at the time when Corbyn and others started shouting about it. Any concerns about a no deal are shouted down instantly as project fear and dismissed out of hand. In fact only last week you described the fear of a grandmother not being able to get essential cancer drugs for her grandson as BBC bias Another poster said they would be ok (financially) following a no deal and understood that some may struggle but balls to em Brexit is now to important. A no deal Brexit has now become party political, it may come down to those who can survive it and those who can't, which is probably a natural neo liberal/ Tory ideology. Perhaps true colours are coming to the fore I don't remember the first example you gave, for a start! Maybe you have got me mixed up with another poster, unless you meant Leavers in general? I don't dismiss fears on no deal, and believe me, I am far from well off, so I don't belong to the "I'm alright Jack" category. I don't buy the "it's heartless Tories that want Brexit" stuff that's being touted, that's all, and when someone points out why it's a flawed argument, you dismiss it. We'll never agree, so let's agree to differ, and leave it at that. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 8:26:13 GMT
Hey up, Rog! Wondered where you had got to? |
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2019 8:26:14 GMT
Mo - stop bleating. This country is not living under a right wing dictatorship. It’s facile to say so. The most right wing cabinet in history closing down Parliament, threatening to disobey the law if they don't like it and threatening to sack people who disagree with them. I know what I'm looking at and it's vile and disgusting. I mean racist grandpa has already done one of those things, Mcdonnell has talked about brining in laws to jail political opponents. As for laws lets be clear there already is one which inself was bought in by an unprecedented procedure allowing the mps to order the executive to do something breaking with hundreds of years of practice facilitated by a speaker who should have been forced to resign due to bullying of female staff kept in place by the Labour party. Where was your concern for parliamentary process then ? It has always been the case parliament approves or votes down government plans and if doesnt like the governments plans it can vote down the government. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 8:29:49 GMT
9 extreme right wing Cabinet Ministers who defied a three line whip threaten to sack colleagues who defy three line whip.
Do as I say, not as I do.
It's a classic anti democratic right wing takeover and its fucking filthy.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 2, 2019 8:30:40 GMT
This idea that the Conservatives aren't playing party politics is ridiculous. The only reason he is pushing for a no deal Brexit is because he hopes to regain enough votes from the Brexit Party for the Conservatives to regain power at the next election. If they were ahead in the polls with a majority, he would not be going for no deal Brexit. In fact the whole timing of May's departure was perfectly done to allow the least parliamentary scrutiny possible - with a summer recess and the opportunity to prorogue parliament. From a purely political point of view, it's a shrewd move if your main aim is self-preservation of the party. It's a dogshit situation for the country though. Of course this plays at odd with the idea that any Brexiteers are an honourable, upstanding bunch, as opposed to those lying, scheming Leaver politicians who are playing party politics - so it is unpalatable to some of the more extreme people on the Brexit side of the debate. As I said before - if/when the vote of no confidence comes then it will be a big decision to make for the Conservative politicians. Are they interested in power at whatever the cost, or are they interested in upholding the structure of democracy in the UK? For once Rip C I agree with some of that. Some Tories are also indeed are playing party politics....I suppose that's another thing that Farage has in his favour. The thing is by trying to deliver BREXIT properly and if Boris Indeed does do he would have cemented his party as the deliverers of BREXIT, honouring the referendum and enhancing the party as a whole....in other words giving the impression of a " good" party, a traditional party who at last can be trusted ( everything else that he does will be secondary and forgiven,)....the other parties are simply playing politics and nothing more.... not interested in delivering what the people voted for...."Bollox to brexit, Bollox to the people".... perhaps Labour ought to run with that to steal a march on the Lib Dems. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 8:32:57 GMT
I don't think we are in a right wing dictatorship. I don't think that the British public think that we are in a right wing dictatorship. And the more that the " left' hysterically scream that we are and should take to the streets , the more they weaken their case, are likely to be labelled " loony left" and are a gift to those right of centre. I think ( hope) that Boris is trying to deliver BREXIT. The tactics that he is having to use to get there have been caused by the reluctance of some parliamentarians to accept the result and now, it seems, Corbyn, Lucas, Sturgeon and Swinson are playing party politics.....(as is Barnier on a different level). Ideally I don't think that Boris would want to nor should have to, use such tactics. A bigger question for Labour is " How do they hope to gain power again, especially post Brexit"..... There is no bigger question than stopping swivel eyed right wing loons seizing power, closing down debate and ignoring the law of rule. Rule of law, surely? 😜 Wasn't it law that we would leave on no deal terms under Article 50 if no deal was agreed? Genuine question, because my head is going with all this! 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 2, 2019 8:35:56 GMT
Dominic Cummings(not an MP)threatens to sack Tory MP’s for not backing any deal & he’s not even a member of the Tory Party In Party Political terms the Right Wing of the Conservative Party have outmanouvered everyone else and are now on the brink of a No Deal.. Which they've always wanted. Once the decision was made to get rid of May it was almost inevitable that Johnson would become PM and adopt a No Deal strategy. By sitting on the fence and trying to appeal to Leavers and Remainders and by refusing to back May's Deal, The Labour Party are also implicated in this. Their policy of 'constructive ambiguity' has allowed this to happen. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 8:36:17 GMT
This idea that the Conservatives aren't playing party politics is ridiculous. The only reason he is pushing for a no deal Brexit is because he hopes to regain enough votes from the Brexit Party for the Conservatives to regain power at the next election. If they were ahead in the polls with a majority, he would not be going for no deal Brexit. In fact the whole timing of May's departure was perfectly done to allow the least parliamentary scrutiny possible - with a summer recess and the opportunity to prorogue parliament. From a purely political point of view, it's a shrewd move if your main aim is self-preservation of the party. It's a dogshit situation for the country though. Of course this plays at odd with the idea that any Brexiteers are an honourable, upstanding bunch, as opposed to those lying, scheming Leaver politicians who are playing party politics - so it is unpalatable to some of the more extreme people on the Brexit side of the debate. As I said before - if/when the vote of no confidence comes then it will be a big decision to make for the Conservative politicians. Are they interested in power at whatever the cost, or are they interested in upholding the structure of democracy in the UK? For once Rip C I agree with some of that. Some Tories are also indeed are playing party politics....I suppose that's another thing that Farage has in his favour. The thing is by trying to deliver BREXIT property and if Boris Indeed does do he would have cemented his party as the deliverers of BREXIT, honouring the referendum and enhancing the party as s whole....in other words giving the impression of a " good" party, a traditional party who at last can be trusted ( everything else that he does will be secondary and forgiven,)....the other parties are simply playing politics and nothing more....nit interested in delivering what the people voted for...."Bollox to brexit, Bollox to the people".... perhaps Labour ought to run with that to steal a march on the Lib Dems. Maybe they are all just playing their part well? I will be amazed if No Deal happens, and I am not convinced that Brexit will happen at all. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 2, 2019 8:37:04 GMT
Dominic Cummings(not an MP)threatens to sack Tory MP’s for not backing any deal & he’s not even a member of the Tory Party In Party Political terms the Right Wing of the Conservative Party have outmanouvered everyone else and are now on the brink of a No Deal.. Which they've always wanted. Once the decision to get rid of May it was almost inevitable that Johnson would become PM and adopt a No Deal strategy. By sitting on the fence and trying to appeal to Leavers and Remainders and by refusing to back May's Deal, The Labour Party are also implicated in this. See Sarah Champion. |
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 2, 2019 8:39:48 GMT
There is no bigger question than stopping swivel eyed right wing loons seizing power, closing down debate and ignoring the rule of law. Rule of law, surely? 😜 😁 Don't know what you mean mate  |
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 2, 2019 8:40:06 GMT
In Party Political terms the Right Wing of the Conservative Party have outmanouvered everyone else and are now on the brink of a No Deal.. Which they've always wanted. Once the decision to get rid of May it was almost inevitable that Johnson would become PM and adopt a No Deal strategy. By sitting on the fence and trying to appeal to Leavers and Remainders and by refusing to back May's Deal, The Labour Party are also implicated in this. See Sarah Champion. And Caroline Flint. She said this yonks ago. |
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Sept 2, 2019 8:43:20 GMT
Dominic Cummings(not an MP)threatens to sack Tory MP’s for not backing any deal & he’s not even a member of the Tory Party In Party Political terms the Right Wing of the Conservative Party have outmanouvered everyone else and are now on the brink of a No Deal.. Which they've always wanted. Once the decision to get rid of May it was almost inevitable that Johnson would become PM and adopt a No Deal strategy. By sitting on the fence and trying to appeal to Leavers and Remainders and by refusing to back May's Deal, The Labour Party are also implicated in this. Oh yes, Just as the right have seized power in the Cons, The left have in Lab. lines are being drawn. As for the outmanoeuvring, Brexit is all they have to offer. They’re a one trick pony & everything & everyone else can go to hell. They’re a blinkered one trick pony |
|
