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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 1, 2019 8:51:58 GMT
The democratic process has been followed, parliament voted to instigate article 50, now they are trying to thwart it Not entirely accurate. You have overlooked that parliament voted in March to reject no deal Brexit. When did they? |
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Post by Davef on Sept 1, 2019 9:02:51 GMT
Not entirely accurate. You have overlooked that parliament voted in March to reject no deal Brexit. When did they? Parliament voting to reject a no deal Brexit is like the Stoke Fans Council voting to reject relegation. |
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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 1, 2019 9:23:30 GMT
Parliament voting to reject a no deal Brexit is like the Stoke Fans Council voting to reject relegation. Ah, here it is www.parliament.uk/business/news/2019/march/house-of-commons-to-vote-on-no-deal-brexit/ I was getting my indicative votes confused. In the second round, in April, they voted that if a deal wasn't agreed with the EU we shouldn't therefore revoke article 50 (i.e. we should leave with no deal as stipulated in article 50). |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 1, 2019 9:35:53 GMT
Just think about that.
GET
THE
FOOD
THEY
NEED
Could this bunch of Tory cunts be any more chilling?
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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 1, 2019 9:52:46 GMT
I expect The Health Secretary will be resigning shortly or is he like the abominable Nicky Morgan, once the snout is in the trough, principles can be left at the door?
Matt Hancock
✔
@matthancock
Proroguing Parliament undermines parliamentary democracy and risks a general election. I rule it out and call on all candidates to do the same
Just two short months ago. At the time he wrote this though, the debate was about proroguing parliament over the period that we left the EU. The suggestion was that this parliament might be dissolved so that it wasn't sitting at the time we actually left at the end of October. That isn't what is happening. |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 1, 2019 9:55:44 GMT
Just think about that. GET THE FOOD THEY NEED Could this bunch of Tory cunts be any more chilling? Wouldn't be surprised if they had already started printing the ration books. Still that can only be a good thing as (a) it shows there is at least some plan for what happens post no deal and (b) Leavers get that 'back to the 1950's' feel they voted for. |
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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 1, 2019 9:57:18 GMT
Don't tell me deep down that none of you don't find setting this precedent very worrying? Now the cat is out of the bag it can be used for anything at any time... be very careful what you cheer for especially with characters like Johnson and any characters that follow Like when John Major did it whilst waiting for the cash for questions scandal to blow over? |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 10:05:01 GMT
Just think about that. GET THE FOOD THEY NEED Could this bunch of Tory cunts be any more chilling? I'd have more faith in tesco, sainsbury etc supply chain planning / management than anything any government would do. If he came out and said there would be no shortages of anything good old beth would be tweeting about Gove making promises he couldnt keep, cant win whatever he says. Still at this time of supposed national crisis after 3 years non stop of Labour calling for a general election next week they will mumble, stare at their feet and say we dont want a general election this week, a whole new level of shithousery. |
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 1, 2019 10:09:42 GMT
 The similarities are uncanny 😉😊 For the UK, the choice is simple, as one between democracy and permanent second-class statehood; freedom to hire and fire the people who make the laws we have to obey and pay for, or be subservient to a German-run European super-state. I know which one I’d choose. Your post has another similarity to Nazism. It contains little truths, but massive lies. The EU is our biggest trading partner & accounts for 46% of our business. |
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 1, 2019 10:14:15 GMT
Just think about that. GET THE FOOD THEY NEED Could this bunch of Tory cunts be any more chilling? I'd have more faith in tesco, sainsbury etc supply chain planning / management than anything any government would do. What will Sainsbury’s te al do in this age of ‘Just in time’ supply chains, Wave their magic wand at the tinned spaghetti tree... |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 10:35:20 GMT
I'd have more faith in tesco, sainsbury etc supply chain planning / management than anything any government would do. What will Sainsbury’s te al do in this age of ‘Just in time’ supply chains, Wave their magic wand at the tinned spaghetti tree... As I said more faith in their supply chain planning / management next time you are in there look at which country the fresh food is coming from. |
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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 1, 2019 10:46:33 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is all a big con? Boris gets the backstop dropped & is painted as a hero who delivered Brexit. The EU get loads of praise for 'riding to the rescue' with a last minute 'new deal'(basically the WA minus the backstop.) Parliament panic 'cos there's no time left (They've only had 3 years!) And vote the deal through rather than leave with no deal. It all stinks of a massive stitch up. This is my fear about all of this. Johnson and Cummings aren't no-deal die hards by any stretch. Johnson just wants to be liked and to go down as a 'good' PM. They'll get cosmetic changes to the WA and our new associate membership will pass, as parliament has now painted itself into a corner. Not really sure what to think about any of it. |
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Post by Timmypotter on Sept 1, 2019 11:18:37 GMT
I saw A Nepalese metal band at the Sugarmill a few months back. I don't think they were particularly wealthy but they'd got here and were happily selling their merch. |
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Post by maxplonk on Sept 1, 2019 11:30:16 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 1, 2019 11:57:12 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 12:54:19 GMT
The irony of ducking the ballot box to demand direct action in the name of democracy is probably lost on you.... |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 13:25:33 GMT
Just highlighting a few things to show its not as Labour / Tory as you think momo
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 1, 2019 13:32:58 GMT
The irony of ducking the ballot box to demand direct action in the name of democracy is probably lost on you.... The irony, as I see it, is that part of the thrust of Leave was to 'take back control' where British law reigns supreme - apart from now - it seems - when it suits to ignore it. Doesn't matter who's law it is, UK, European or American - if you simply ignore it then what you have is anarchy. |
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Post by maxplonk on Sept 1, 2019 13:34:35 GMT
It's a power grab. Nothing less. Taking "away" control. |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 13:37:38 GMT
The irony of ducking the ballot box to demand direct action in the name of democracy is probably lost on you.... The irony, as I see it, is that part of the thrust of Leave was to 'take back control' where British law reigns supreme - apart from now - it seems - when it suits to ignore it. Doesn't matter who's law it is, UK, European or American - if you simply ignore it then what you have is anarchy. The commons does not tell the government what to do though it can vote for or against the plans the government comes back with and vote the government down if it does not like what it is doing however I am pretty sure the houses of parliament does not pass laws to directly force the government to do something. |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 1, 2019 13:57:34 GMT
The irony, as I see it, is that part of the thrust of Leave was to 'take back control' where British law reigns supreme - apart from now - it seems - when it suits to ignore it. Doesn't matter who's law it is, UK, European or American - if you simply ignore it then what you have is anarchy. The commons does not tell the government what to do though it can vote for or against the plans the government comes back with and vote the government down if it does not like what it is doing however I am pretty sure the houses of parliament does not pass laws to directly force the government to do something. If you look at what happened in March with Letwin and Cooper regarding an extension they suceeded in pasing an Act of Parliament which was passed into law to force May to ask for an extension. The whole point of proroguing parliament is to reduce the time available to MP's to attempt to do something similar. What Gove is saying is that even if they do the Government may ignore the law anyway. Which would be a Leave government ignoring the law the claim to be one of the fundamental strands of the Leave campaign. Asside from the rank hypocracy it puts this country on a dangerous path if we have a government wich considers itself not to be accountable to either parliament or the law. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 1, 2019 14:00:30 GMT
It's a power grab. Nothing less. Taking "away" control. Control for the few Dangerous tosspots |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 14:22:08 GMT
The commons does not tell the government what to do though it can vote for or against the plans the government comes back with and vote the government down if it does not like what it is doing however I am pretty sure the houses of parliament does not pass laws to directly force the government to do something. If you look at what happened in March with Letwin and Cooper regarding an extension they suceeded in pasing an Act of Parliament which was passed into law to force May to ask for an extension. The whole point of proroguing parliament is to reduce the time available to MP's to attempt to do something similar. What Gove is saying is that even if they do the Government may ignore the law anyway. Which would be a Leave government ignoring the law the claim to be one of the fundamental strands of the Leave campaign. Asside from the rank hypocracy it puts this country on a dangerous path if we have a government wich considers itself not to be accountable to either parliament or the law. Its amazing the way you just pass off parliamentary precedence as no big deal, my point already made that the cooper letwin bill is the first time ever parliament has passed a law to force the government to directly do something. This law was done in 1 day so to to claim the extra 4 days closing somehow affects this is just disingenuous. Parliament will not vote for the only deal the EU will offer but will vote to stop the UK leaving so just where does that leave us while parliament makes up its mind ? |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 14:46:27 GMT
Don't know if this is true but might explain new found mardarsery from remoaners  |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 1, 2019 14:52:55 GMT
If you look at what happened in March with Letwin and Cooper regarding an extension they suceeded in pasing an Act of Parliament which was passed into law to force May to ask for an extension. The whole point of proroguing parliament is to reduce the time available to MP's to attempt to do something similar. What Gove is saying is that even if they do the Government may ignore the law anyway. Which would be a Leave government ignoring the law the claim to be one of the fundamental strands of the Leave campaign. Asside from the rank hypocracy it puts this country on a dangerous path if we have a government wich considers itself not to be accountable to either parliament or the law. Its amazing the way you just pass off parliamentary precedence as no big deal, my point already made that the cooper letwin bill is the first time ever parliament has passed a law to force the government to directly do something. This law was done in 1 day so to to claim the extra 4 days closing somehow affects this is just disingenuous. Parliament will not vote for the only deal the EU will offer but will vote to stop the UK leaving so just where does that leave us while parliament makes up its mind ? It leaves us where we are now. Johnson and Cummings wouldn't need to do any of this if they had the Parliamentary arithmetic. They don't. So unless you're going to upend the whole principle of Parliamentary democracy then it needs to go back to the Country. Brexit is an issue no doubt but it's not the be all and its not worth sacrificing all principles to achieve it. |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 1, 2019 15:16:06 GMT
Its amazing the way you just pass off parliamentary precedence as no big deal, my point already made that the cooper letwin bill is the first time ever parliament has passed a law to force the government to directly do something. This law was done in 1 day so to to claim the extra 4 days closing somehow affects this is just disingenuous. Parliament will not vote for the only deal the EU will offer but will vote to stop the UK leaving so just where does that leave us while parliament makes up its mind ? It leaves us where we are now. Johnson and Cummings wouldn't need to do any of this if they had the Parliamentary arithmetic. They don't. So unless you're going to upend the whole principle of Parliamentary democracy then it needs to go back to the Country. Brexit is an issue no doubt but it's not the be all and its not worth sacrificing all principles to achieve it. I happen to think parliament stopping the government from doing what 17.4m told them too do is a pretty fucking big deal. Parliament could bring a VONC anytime but wont as they think they wont win but lets pretend we have a second referendum if its leave again the lib dems have already said they will still aim to stop brexit as will the SNP and Labour just want racist grandpa to be pm Leaving for me is the only way we actually move on. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 1, 2019 15:32:00 GMT
It leaves us where we are now. Johnson and Cummings wouldn't need to do any of this if they had the Parliamentary arithmetic. They don't. So unless you're going to upend the whole principle of Parliamentary democracy then it needs to go back to the Country. Brexit is an issue no doubt but it's not the be all and its not worth sacrificing all principles to achieve it. I happen to think parliament stopping the government from doing what 17.4m told them too do is a pretty fucking big deal. Parliament could bring a VONC anytime but wont as they think they wont win but lets pretend we have a second referendum if its leave again the lib dems have already said they will still aim to stop brexit as will the SNP and Labour just want racist grandpa to be pm Leaving for me is the only way we actually move on. Imagine if we stayed in now? Fuck me, any semblance of pride would be crushed. They would absolutely rinse us, as well. |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 1, 2019 15:45:13 GMT
It leaves us where we are now. Johnson and Cummings wouldn't need to do any of this if they had the Parliamentary arithmetic. They don't. So unless you're going to upend the whole principle of Parliamentary democracy then it needs to go back to the Country. Brexit is an issue no doubt but it's not the be all and its not worth sacrificing all principles to achieve it. I happen to think parliament stopping the government from doing what 17.4m told them too do is a pretty fucking big deal. Parliament could bring a VONC anytime but wont as they think they wont win but lets pretend we have a second referendum if its leave again the lib dems have already said they will still aim to stop brexit as will the SNP and Labour just want racist grandpa to be pm Leaving for me is the only way we actually move on. Well if a number of the current govt had voted for the WA instead of against it we would have left by now and would be moving on - however personal ambition got in the way. Although I voted remain I wouldn't put it as an option on the paper. Tell the EU to make their very best offer and we'll put it to the electorate. That or no deal.Both the main parties committed to leaving so both should be in favour. Be interesting to then see who would campaign for what. |
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Post by claytonscrubs on Sept 1, 2019 15:48:48 GMT
The similarities are uncanny 😉😊 For the UK, the choice is simple, as one between democracy and permanent second-class statehood; freedom to hire and fire the people who make the laws we have to obey and pay for, or be subservient to a German-run European super-state. I know which one I’d choose. Your post has another similarity to Nazism. It contains little truths, but massive lies. The EU is our biggest trading partner & accounts for 46% of our business. Would like to know what you mean by ‘little truths and massive lies’ from the above comparison? Please itemise from the list so that we can all be clear on this... True democracy is all I care about!! |
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Post by tuum on Sept 1, 2019 16:46:15 GMT
The similarities are uncanny 😉😊 For the UK, the choice is simple, as one between democracy and permanent second-class statehood; freedom to hire and fire the people who make the laws we have to obey and pay for, or be subservient to a German-run European super-state. I know which one I’d choose. Your post has another similarity to Nazism. It contains little truths, but massive lies. The EU is our biggest trading partner & accounts for 46% of our business. Really? Does that 46% include the goods that we send to Rotterdam for export to the rest of the world? |
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