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Post by maxplonk on Aug 29, 2019 10:40:29 GMT
The EU will probably try to get the best deal they can for the remaining member states - they have no more reason to be nice to us than the Americans do. Of course. But what im talking about is that they will go that extra mile especially for us, to make things difficult....if we are successful there project is at stake. They cannot accept that we just may be one country out of the 28 who thinks a bit differently and wants independence. As Rip has said , it is a German and French led EU who act in their own self interest. Yes I do appreciate your point of view, and I was going to say that they, the EU, might conduct future business with the UK with a large side-order of prejudice and/or Schadenfreude. An objective observer might see this as being a reasonable approach to keep the remaining members in line - punish the apostate (UK) but provide lots of support for the victims (financial support for the Irish Republic). I decided not to post this idea because, in my opinion, it would be nigh on impossible to prove, AND some on here (not necessarily you) would see it as punishment regardless.
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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 10:43:54 GMT
If we do leave properly there will be alot of our people hoping that the UK fails ( and the strategy of the EU will to try to get us to fail, not honest competition/ cooperation) You are right. Throughout this I still don’t understand why so many people in this country are desperate for the UK to fail....it’s just very,very weird. I get the rest of Europe will want us to fail as we become potential competitors and a dried up market as well being a threat to the cosy club if Brexit brings success, but what has the country done to those living here to make them to have this intense dislike and wish to see failure....is it just so they can say I told you so? It’s a bit like those who want Stoke to lose like we had in the Pulis and more recently Rowett eras. Who are these people who have said that they want us to fail just so they have bragging rights? People stating what we know will happen and people wanting it happen are two different things. I don't think you can liken Brexit to Pulis... Pulis was much more divisive.
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Post by yeokel on Aug 29, 2019 10:48:06 GMT
“ Liddington is a remainer at heart but probably worked harder than anyone in Government to get May's deal through” Well of course he did – It was remain in all but name. I’m sure you know that really. Interesting, so the only vision of Brexit is in fact the heinous ERG's. I think we know what the real conspiracy afoot has been all along with the Fat Dictator don't we. Is that what I said? I'm not sure it is. In fact, that seems a fairly ludicorus conclusion to have drawn from what I wrote.
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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 10:48:25 GMT
Why is sorting out immigration from outside the EU racist ? why should it not be controlled ? we already have the powers to do so just nobody with the backbone to implement them hopefully Bozzer and his team will have. Immigration from outside the EU is controlled.We will need more of them too if the Europeans stop coming. At least if we stop immigration it'll mean all the lazy benefit scroungers won't have an excuse for not taking the jobs that are currently beneath them.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 29, 2019 10:49:02 GMT
Why is sorting out immigration from outside the EU racist ? why should it not be controlled ? we already have the powers to do so just nobody with the backbone to implement them hopefully Bozzer and his team will have. Immigration from outside the EU is controlled.We will need more of them too if the Europeans stop coming. Farage has never suggested otherwise has he? He's encouraged immigration from the Commonwealth a number of times.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 10:50:42 GMT
“ Liddington is a remainer at heart but probably worked harder than anyone in Government to get May's deal through” Well of course he did – It was remain in all but name. I’m sure you know that really. Interesting, so the only vision of Brexit is in fact the heinous ERG's. I think we know what the real conspiracy afoot has been all along with the Fat Dictator don't we. But Boris voted for Mays brino, didn’t he ?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 29, 2019 10:52:33 GMT
Well said John lad
The battle has just started with these entitled cunts, comrade.
John McDonnell, Labour’s shadow chancellor, said the upcoming spending review was a “panic-driven stunt”. He said: “Nobody is fooled that this is a proper and normal spending review. It is a one-year only, panic-driven stunt budget.” McDonnell said Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Chancellor Sajid Javid were attempting to “shift enough votes to get them into power” with next Wednesday’s expected statement.
He added: “If nothing else, this has proved what we have said all along. Austerity was always a political choice, not an economic necessity.”
McDonnell said Johnson’s decision to suspend Parliament for more than a month shows his “deep-seated arrogant sense of entitlement”.
He added: “The last 24 hours have revealed the true character of Boris Johnson and, as importantly, the real nature of his politics. “It’s exposed in Johnson a deep-seated arrogant sense of entitlement. Johnson sees himself not as a modern-day Prime Minister, whose authority rests upon the support of a Parliamentary democracy.
“Instead, his actions betray that he’s reverted to a much older Tory tradition. He’s a ruler, ruling over the ruled.
“Democratic practices like parliamentary votes have become encumbrances to the freedom of the ruler. And how dare the broadcast media seek to pose questions and ask for an interview or anything more than a short clip of him grinning.”
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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 10:53:53 GMT
Immigration from outside the EU is controlled.We will need more of them too if the Europeans stop coming. Farage has never suggested otherwise has he? He's encouraged immigration from the Commonwealth a number of times. So Farage supports more immigrants from countries such as Pakistan, Cameroon, Botswana, India, Uganda, Kenya, etc. Yep, sounds like something he and his fanboys are in favour of. Unless of course by commonwealth you're referring to only the likes of Australia and Canada? In which case, good luck getting them to come here to take the lowest paid jobs.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 29, 2019 10:55:17 GMT
Interesting, so the only vision of Brexit is in fact the heinous ERG's. I think we know what the real conspiracy afoot has been all along with the Fat Dictator don't we. But Boris voted for Mays brino, didn’t he ? He knew it wouldn't get through that was part of his leadership campaign. The man is an utter fucking charlatan.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 29, 2019 11:00:12 GMT
If we do leave properly there will be alot of our people hoping that the UK fails ( and the strategy of the EU will to try to get us to fail, not honest competition/ cooperation) You are right. Throughout this I still don’t understand why so many people in this country are desperate for the UK to fail....it’s just very,very weird. I get the rest of Europe will want us to fail as we become potential competitors and a dried up market as well being a threat to the cosy club if Brexit brings success, but what has the country done to those living here to make them to have this intense dislike and wish to see failure....is it just so they can say I told you so? It’s a bit like those who want Stoke to lose like we had in the Pulis and more recently Rowett eras. I think some people would prefer the county to fail rather than admit that they were wrong. Others have more to lose than the average armchair analyst, be it in terms of livelihood (freedom of movement, import/export difficulties etc.) or life (availability of meds!) and the latter group tend to be more vociferous. Also, failure might seem attractive to some people if it leads to the ddownfall of the bastards who got us into this mess.
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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 11:03:27 GMT
But Boris voted for Mays brino, didn’t he ? He knew it wouldn't get through that was part of his leadership campaign. The man is an utter fucking charlatan. Deffo a resemblance but I can't confirm either way
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 29, 2019 11:10:04 GMT
Immigration from outside the EU is controlled.We will need more of them too if the Europeans stop coming. Farage has never suggested otherwise has he? He's encouraged immigration from the Commonwealth a number of times. Crapslinger said otherwise hence my reply.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 11:12:43 GMT
But Boris voted for Mays brino, didn’t he ? He knew it wouldn't get through that was part of his leadership campaign. The man is an utter fucking charlatan. But how would voting for a faux brexit help his leadership campaign ?
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 29, 2019 11:14:51 GMT
Immigration from outside the EU is controlled.We will need more of them too if the Europeans stop coming. At least if we stop immigration it'll mean all the lazy benefit scroungers won't have an excuse for not taking the jobs that are currently beneath them. I dont know whether to take that seriously or Im too stiff to see a joke.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 11:18:04 GMT
The referendum wasn’t about stopping immigration from Europe per-se, it was about taking back the power to set our own immigration laws (amongst other laws), that might not necessarily mean lowering immigration from Europe, it just means we decide and not Brussels.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 29, 2019 11:27:21 GMT
He knew it wouldn't get through that was part of his leadership campaign. The man is an utter fucking charlatan. But how would voting for a faux brexit help his leadership campaign ? He knew that it would get voted down again. This was to demonstrate to moderate Tories that he wasn't a swivel eyed ERG loon whilst all the time fellating Top Hat and Baker informing him of his decision to crash out with No Deal.
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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 11:34:05 GMT
At least if we stop immigration it'll mean all the lazy benefit scroungers won't have an excuse for not taking the jobs that are currently beneath them. I dont know whether to take that seriously or Im too stiff to see a joke. If you're stiff mate then maybe this will help you out... (could go either way) As for my post, it's half serious. I can't stand benefit cheats and I would love nothing more than to see the people who whinge and moan about foreigners taking our jobs to be forced into taking them when they become available. To be honest, there are jobs out there now and they don't take them, so maybe nothing will change.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 29, 2019 11:38:05 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is all a big con?
Boris gets the backstop dropped & is painted as a hero who delivered Brexit. The EU get loads of praise for 'riding to the rescue' with a last minute 'new deal'(basically the WA minus the backstop.) Parliament panic 'cos there's no time left (They've only had 3 years!) And vote the deal through rather than leave with no deal.
It all stinks of a massive stitch up.
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Post by Davef on Aug 29, 2019 11:38:15 GMT
Liddington is a remainer at heart but probably worked harder than anyone in Government to get May's deal through, fyd. He certainly has a cleaner record of trying to deliver 'a' Brext than Johnson or the ERG have up to this point. Arch Leavers have been moaning about Remain conspiracies all along, however it seems that the real conspiracy afoot is the one that sees us 'tumble out' with the hardest Brexit f all. Worked to get a deal through that was the softest of softest brexits and failed, the one the Yannis whatshisface called the type of agreement that a country signs after losing a war, the one that had pretty much everything Labour wanted but they still whipped against. Its already been said many times this tumbling out is just nonsense, they are already many mini deals already agreed after that anything else can be negotiated or not as the EU wishes. The EU have said the WA can not be renegotiated, parliament will not approve it, Boris is testing the EU and if they say no we leave simple. These mini deals you talk about are time limited though and eventually we will have to negotiate a longer term arrangement/relationship with the EU. And if we struggle badly after we leave with no deal, who do you think will then have the upper hand in negotiations?
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Post by 4372 on Aug 29, 2019 11:45:25 GMT
Will be a big day for some Conservatives if/when a vote of no confidence in the government comes - do they prefer guarenteed power or democracy?[/quote I am guessing it won't be a difficult situation for many Tories, but I have called this all wrong so far.
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Post by yeokel on Aug 29, 2019 11:49:28 GMT
Worked to get a deal through that was the softest of softest brexits and failed, the one the Yannis whatshisface called the type of agreement that a country signs after losing a war, the one that had pretty much everything Labour wanted but they still whipped against. Its already been said many times this tumbling out is just nonsense, they are already many mini deals already agreed after that anything else can be negotiated or not as the EU wishes. The EU have said the WA can not be renegotiated, parliament will not approve it, Boris is testing the EU and if they say no we leave simple. These mini deals you talk about are time limited though and eventually we will have to negotiate a longer term arrangement/relationship with the EU. And if we struggle badly after we leave with no deal, who do you think will then have the upper hand in negotiations? That we import £30 billion more than we export from/ to Germany That we import £13 billion more than we export from/ to Netherlands That we import £9 billion more than we export from/ to Belgium That we import £7 billion more than we export from/ to Italy That we import £6 billion more than we export from/ to France That we import £5 billion more than we export from/ to Spain That we import £4 billion more than we export from/ to Poland 2015 figures And the big one, of course that overall we import £86 billion more than we export from/ to EU countries Might give us a certain amount of weight when negotiating an equitable trade deal with the EU. UK/EU Trade Figures
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Post by franklin66 on Aug 29, 2019 12:04:43 GMT
These mini deals you talk about are time limited though and eventually we will have to negotiate a longer term arrangement/relationship with the EU. And if we struggle badly after we leave with no deal, who do you think will then have the upper hand in negotiations? That we import £30 billion more than we export from/ to Germany That we import £13 billion more than we export from/ to Netherlands That we import £9 billion more than we export from/ to Belgium That we import £7 billion more than we export from/ to Italy That we import £6 billion more than we export from/ to France That we import £5 billion more than we export from/ to Spain That we import £4 billion more than we export from/ to Poland 2015 figures And the big one, of course that overall we import £86 billion more than we export from/ to EU countries Might give us a certain amount of weight when negotiating an equitable trade deal with the EU. UK/EU Trade FiguresNow you know full well they won't want to sell us anything now we're leaving. I'm sure Germany won't bat an eyelid at losing £30 Billion in trade to spite us 😁
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 29, 2019 12:07:20 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is all a big con? Boris gets the backstop dropped & is painted as a hero who delivered Brexit. The EU get loads of praise for 'riding to the rescue' with a last minute 'new deal'(basically the WA minus the backstop.) Parliament panic 'cos there's no time left (They've only had 3 years!) And vote the deal through rather than leave with no deal. It all stinks of a massive stitch up. No you're not DC. I think a few of us think this. More importantly I think that is what Farage thinks. I think it still could go either way.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 29, 2019 12:09:01 GMT
The naivety of the opposition beggars belief They spend all day in discussions with each other and come up with a master plan And promptly announce they will do anything necessary to stop a no deal or Brexit at all
Then they expect boris to quietly sit and wait for there attempt When this doesn’t happen que the gnashing of teeth the faux outrage The howling of indignation
Remain MPs utterly pathetic
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 12:17:53 GMT
I dont know whether to take that seriously or Im too stiff to see a joke. If you're stiff mate then maybe this will help you out... (could go either way) As for my post, it's half serious. I can't stand benefit cheats and I would love nothing more than to see the people who whinge and moan about foreigners taking our jobs to be forced into taking them when they become available. To be honest, there are jobs out there now and they don't take them, so maybe nothing will change. Mays £30 k on Europe immigration it ridiculous, immigration should be based on need across the board . I ran my own catering business in the city of London for 21 years and couldn't have done it without the immigrants from Europe . You just need to control who and how many in all sectors of the economy
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 12:24:25 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is all a big con? Boris gets the backstop dropped & is painted as a hero who delivered Brexit. The EU get loads of praise for 'riding to the rescue' with a last minute 'new deal'(basically the WA minus the backstop.) Parliament panic 'cos there's no time left (They've only had 3 years!) And vote the deal through rather than leave with no deal. It all stinks of a massive stitch up. Will parliament vote for anything a Boris Johnson led government puts before them though ? I Can’t see Labour wanting to hand him anything that might seem like a victory, they won’t want him going into the next election claiming “I delivered brexit” will they ? but then again if they vote against any prospective WA Johnson gets to say “I tried to make a deal but parliament voted it down, don’t blame me if the shit hits the fan now” Really, Boris could spin any outcome in his favor from here. The only problem he has is irking brexiteers, if he is seen to be reheating Mays deal it will be seen as a betrayal by lots of brexiteers.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 12:32:35 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is all a big con? Boris gets the backstop dropped & is painted as a hero who delivered Brexit. The EU get loads of praise for 'riding to the rescue' with a last minute 'new deal'(basically the WA minus the backstop.) Parliament panic 'cos there's no time left (They've only had 3 years!) And vote the deal through rather than leave with no deal. It all stinks of a massive stitch up. Will parliament vote for anything a Boris Johnson led government puts before them though ? I Can’t see Labour wanting to hand him anything that might seem like a victory, they won’t want him going into the next election claiming “I delivered brexit” will they ? but then again if they vote against any prospective WA Johnson gets to say “I tried to make a deal but parliament voted it down, don’t blame me if the shit hits the fan now” Really, Boris could spin any outcome in his favor from here. The only problem he has is irking brexiteers, if he is seen to be reheating Mays deal it will be seen as a betrayal by lots of brexiteers. I think a lot of brexiers would like. A deal of some sort time limited T//A whilst we negotiate a free trade deal
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 29, 2019 12:38:47 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks this is all a big con? Boris gets the backstop dropped & is painted as a hero who delivered Brexit. The EU get loads of praise for 'riding to the rescue' with a last minute 'new deal'(basically the WA minus the backstop.) Parliament panic 'cos there's no time left (They've only had 3 years!) And vote the deal through rather than leave with no deal. It all stinks of a massive stitch up. No, you're not.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 12:43:01 GMT
Will parliament vote for anything a Boris Johnson led government puts before them though ? I Can’t see Labour wanting to hand him anything that might seem like a victory, they won’t want him going into the next election claiming “I delivered brexit” will they ? but then again if they vote against any prospective WA Johnson gets to say “I tried to make a deal but parliament voted it down, don’t blame me if the shit hits the fan now” Really, Boris could spin any outcome in his favor from here. The only problem he has is irking brexiteers, if he is seen to be reheating Mays deal it will be seen as a betrayal by lots of brexiteers. I think a lot of brexiers would like. A deal of some sort time limited T//A whilst we negotiate a free trade deal Indeed, but if the EU budge on the backstop they’re not going to budge on anything else, so essentially any deal will be along the lines of Mays deal with an alternative solution to the backstop, which will piss off brexiteers.
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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 12:44:22 GMT
These mini deals you talk about are time limited though and eventually we will have to negotiate a longer term arrangement/relationship with the EU. And if we struggle badly after we leave with no deal, who do you think will then have the upper hand in negotiations? That we import £30 billion more than we export from/ to Germany That we import £13 billion more than we export from/ to Netherlands That we import £9 billion more than we export from/ to Belgium That we import £7 billion more than we export from/ to Italy That we import £6 billion more than we export from/ to France That we import £5 billion more than we export from/ to Spain That we import £4 billion more than we export from/ to Poland 2015 figures And the big one, of course that overall we import £86 billion more than we export from/ to EU countries Might give us a certain amount of weight when negotiating an equitable trade deal with the EU. UK/EU Trade FiguresWhatever is negotiated it won't be as good as the deal between the existing members. That's never going to be an option. The question is whether or not the UK can replace these imports (because we will NEED these kind of goods) with cheaper alternatives from non-EU countries AND would people accept that. I would expect most imports from outside the EU will be arriving by plane so not sure if that's such a good idea economically or environmentally. It would incur greater logistic costs and I'm not sure many of these goods would even meet the necessary quality standards. As for replacing specific products. That's not realistic either. If people want certain brands they will get them. I don't see half of the food or clothes or car brands we currently have being replaced with non-EU alternatives. People who shop at Aldi and Lidl aren't also going to suddenly switch to more upmarket supermarkets to get their food. We import more because we have the demand for it and I doubt very much that even with a slightly worse EU trade deal, we can find the same quality products at a lower cost. We will likely continue to trade the same as now, just with an even bigger trade deficit. "In 2018, the UK’s exports of goods and services totalled £634 billion and imports totalled £665 billion. The EU accounted for 46% of UK exports of goods and services and 53% of imports in 2018. Overall, the UK imports more than it exports meaning that it runs a trade deficit. A deficit of £138 billion on trade in goods was partially offset by a surplus of £107 billion on trade in services in 2018. The overall trade deficit was £31 billion in 2018." I would argue that the UK needs the EU imports more than the EU needs the UKs 'services'. Service providers can be easily replaced at next to no cost.
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