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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 19:32:30 GMT
I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Last two paragraphs are fear mongering based on your own opinion and in no way proven to be fact. Unless of course you can see the future. If anything gets given up to the EU then blame the elected politicians at home. I've worked with far more Europeans than you I imagine and not a single one of them is out to get what they can from us. In fact, they couldn't care less about the UK and just want us to stop wasting their time and decide what the fuck we're going to do. Lastly, I don't see why the UK can't lead the line in Europe like Germany and France do. You need allies and standing alone is going to be disaster....imo. It’s all just opinions on both sides. i Talk to an Israeli guy regularly doesn’t mean I know how Jesus feels about Palestine 😜 And if you think Germany, France or Any leader in Brussels would allow the uk to lead the line you are in dreamland still.....all just opinions
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 10, 2019 19:33:57 GMT
I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Last two paragraphs are fear mongering based on your own opinion and in no way proven to be fact. Unless of course you can see the future. If anything gets given up to the EU then blame the elected politicians at home. I've worked with far more Europeans than you I imagine and not a single one of them is out to get what they can from us. In fact, they couldn't care less about the UK and just want us to stop wasting their time and decide what the fuck we're going to do. Lastly, I don't see why the UK can't lead the line in Europe like Germany and France do. You need allies and standing alone is going to be disaster....imo. Your last sentence is fear mongering based on opnion rather than facts. If you can he can is there a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 19:43:18 GMT
2nd Brexbox blog about the Brexit Party MEP's experience in Brussels
Telling it as they find it
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Post by foster on Jul 10, 2019 20:04:48 GMT
Last two paragraphs are fear mongering based on your own opinion and in no way proven to be fact. Unless of course you can see the future. If anything gets given up to the EU then blame the elected politicians at home. I've worked with far more Europeans than you I imagine and not a single one of them is out to get what they can from us. In fact, they couldn't care less about the UK and just want us to stop wasting their time and decide what the fuck we're going to do. Lastly, I don't see why the UK can't lead the line in Europe like Germany and France do. You need allies and standing alone is going to be disaster....imo. Your last sentence is fear mongering based on opnion rather than facts. If you can he can is there a difference. Difference being I stated that it was my opinion. He stated it as fact.
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Post by foster on Jul 10, 2019 20:07:33 GMT
Last two paragraphs are fear mongering based on your own opinion and in no way proven to be fact. Unless of course you can see the future. If anything gets given up to the EU then blame the elected politicians at home. I've worked with far more Europeans than you I imagine and not a single one of them is out to get what they can from us. In fact, they couldn't care less about the UK and just want us to stop wasting their time and decide what the fuck we're going to do. Lastly, I don't see why the UK can't lead the line in Europe like Germany and France do. You need allies and standing alone is going to be disaster....imo. It’s all just opinions on both sides. i Talk to an Israeli guy regularly doesn’t mean I know how Jesus feels about Palestine 😜 And if you think Germany, France or Any leader in Brussels would allow the uk to lead the line you are in dreamland still.....all just opinions I agree. It's all opinions based on bullshit information. No matter what happens it probably won't change much in peoples daily lives anyway.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 10, 2019 20:17:52 GMT
Your last sentence is fear mongering based on opnion rather than facts. If you can he can is there a difference. Difference being I stated that it was my opinion. He stated it as fact. I must have missed that bit can't see the difference myself but thanks for clarifying.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 7:50:35 GMT
The current strategy is to do everything to undermine Boris for the reasons Patrick gives.
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Post by 3putts on Jul 11, 2019 8:02:51 GMT
I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Absolutely spot on 👍 Quality post 👍 Which of these industries has the EU destroyed? Coal and steel? Thatcher did that Cars? Japanese imports put paid to that Fishing? We managed to overfish our own waters without any help from the EU. Its only thanx to EU that we have a fishing industry with the qoutas resulting in protecting fish stocks
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Post by a.d.faye.god on Jul 11, 2019 8:03:46 GMT
I mean that literally describes every parliamentary/democratic system in the world including the House of Commons. I’m not saying it’s good, it’s just politics and isn’t an argument against the EU any more than it is an argument against representative democracy in general. I do have a problem with that MEP (no clue who he is I’m afraid, but I’m guessing Brexit party) acting as if he is shocked that a parliament has politics going on and he hasn’t done it himself to get there. Hypocrisy at its finest
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 8:21:36 GMT
I mean that literally describes every parliamentary/democratic system in the world including the House of Commons. I’m not saying it’s good, it’s just politics and isn’t an argument against the EU any more than it is an argument against representative democracy in general. I do have a problem with that MEP (no clue who he is I’m afraid, but I’m guessing Brexit party) acting as if he is shocked that a parliament has politics going on and he hasn’t done it himself to get there. Hypocrisy at its finest Perhaps it boils down to what the purpose, mission and nature of the institution is that determines the type of " politics". The EU is not a country and some people favour independence and sovereignty for the UK.
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 9:08:31 GMT
I mean that literally describes every parliamentary/democratic system in the world including the House of Commons. I’m not saying it’s good, it’s just politics and isn’t an argument against the EU any more than it is an argument against representative democracy in general. I do have a problem with that MEP (no clue who he is I’m afraid, but I’m guessing Brexit party) acting as if he is shocked that a parliament has politics going on and he hasn’t done it himself to get there. Hypocrisy at its finest Perhaps it boils down to what the purpose, mission and nature of the institution is that determines the type of " politics". The EU is not a country and some people favour independence and sovereignty for the UK. The UK does have plenty of independence though doesn't it. We still use Sterling, we still use shitty 3 pin plugs, we still govern our taxes, the government invests where it sees fit and we still eat fish n chips. I find the whole 'blame the EU' for every problem we have too simple an argument. It's like sticking your head in the sand, taking the easy option and blaming someone else for a mess of your own making. Leaving isn't some kind of magic bullet that will lead to more local investment, more jobs, a reduction in immigration, etc. Neither will it free up 350 million a week for the NHS. What it will do is add additional barriers to trade, take away our strength with regards to collective bargaining and put us in a weaker position globally. We're not America and we're not the global power we used to be. There's no point acting like we are. We can't afford to do like the US and go around stomping our feet, raising tariffs and generally pissing everyone off. We just don't have the same financial clout. We need to be building alliances and working together, not rocking the boat and acting like childish twats in the EU parliament.... yeah we're grown men and we turned our backs on the EU anthem.. whoop di fucking do. A great use of budget sending them all there and paying their expenses. We're a laughing stock. We're like a kid leaving his friends and taking his ball with him, only to find he has nobody else to to play with. Meanwhile, while every politician partakes in these pathetic publicity stunts and earns a fortune for not doing what they're paid to do, almost every problem with the UK over the past two years has been sidelined and brushed under the carpet. I honestly wish that some of these politicians had an ounce of integrity, did their jobs properly and sorted out this embarrassing mess once and for all.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 9:24:30 GMT
Perhaps it boils down to what the purpose, mission and nature of the institution is that determines the type of " politics". The EU is not a country and some people favour independence and sovereignty for the UK. The UK does have plenty of independence though doesn't it. We still use Sterling, we still use shitty 3 pin plugs, we still govern our taxes, the government invests where it sees fit and we still eat fish n chips. I find the whole 'blame the EU' for every problem we have too simple an argument. It's like sticking your head in the sand, taking the easy option and blaming someone else for a mess of your own making. Leaving isn't some kind of magic bullet that will lead to more local investment, more jobs, a reduction in immigration, etc. Neither will it free up 350 million a week for the NHS. What it will do is add additional barriers to trade, take away our strength with regards to collective bargaining and put us in a weaker position globally. We're not America and we're not the global power we used to be. There's no point acting like we are. We can't afford to do like the US and go around stomping our feet, raising tariffs and generally pissing everyone off. We just don't have the same financial clout. We need to be building alliances and working together, not rocking the boat and acting like childish twats in the EU parliament.... yeah we're grown men and we turned our backs on the EU anthem.. whoop di fucking do. A great use of budget sending them all there and paying their expenses. We're a laughing stock. We're like a kid leaving his friends and taking his ball with him, only to find he has nobody else to to play with. Meanwhile, while every politician partakes in these pathetic publicity stunts and earns a fortune for not doing what they're paid to do, almost every problem with the UK over the past two years has been sidelined and brushed under the carpet. I honestly wish that some of these politicians had an ounce of integrity, did their jobs properly and sorted out this embarrassing mess once and for all. The purpose of the EU is ever closer union towards a political and economic union, a United States of Europe. The EU would love us to join the Euro and intend us to do so. "Plenty of independence " isn't the same as being an independent sovereign country. Ask Australia. We are laughing stocks because Remainers have meant that despite a desire to do so we have not left the EU. We look incapable of being an independent, sovereign country
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 9:33:18 GMT
The UK does have plenty of independence though doesn't it. We still use Sterling, we still use shitty 3 pin plugs, we still govern our taxes, the government invests where it sees fit and we still eat fish n chips. I find the whole 'blame the EU' for every problem we have too simple an argument. It's like sticking your head in the sand, taking the easy option and blaming someone else for a mess of your own making. Leaving isn't some kind of magic bullet that will lead to more local investment, more jobs, a reduction in immigration, etc. Neither will it free up 350 million a week for the NHS. What it will do is add additional barriers to trade, take away our strength with regards to collective bargaining and put us in a weaker position globally. We're not America and we're not the global power we used to be. There's no point acting like we are. We can't afford to do like the US and go around stomping our feet, raising tariffs and generally pissing everyone off. We just don't have the same financial clout. We need to be building alliances and working together, not rocking the boat and acting like childish twats in the EU parliament.... yeah we're grown men and we turned our backs on the EU anthem.. whoop di fucking do. A great use of budget sending them all there and paying their expenses. We're a laughing stock. We're like a kid leaving his friends and taking his ball with him, only to find he has nobody else to to play with. Meanwhile, while every politician partakes in these pathetic publicity stunts and earns a fortune for not doing what they're paid to do, almost every problem with the UK over the past two years has been sidelined and brushed under the carpet. I honestly wish that some of these politicians had an ounce of integrity, did their jobs properly and sorted out this embarrassing mess once and for all. The purpose of the EU is ever closer union towards a political and economic union, a United States of Europe. The EU would love us to join the Euro and intend us to do so. "Plenty of independence " isn't the same as being an independent sovereign country. Ask Australia. We are laughing stocks because Remainers have meant that despite a desire to do so we have not left the EU. We look incapable of being an independent, sovereign country Out of interest and I'm not in favour of this, but would it really be such a big deal if we switched to the EURO? You would expect that over time countries evolve and adapt to the world around them. It's like a team in the Prem. You can't afford to stand still or you get left behind. Many countries in Europe have switched and they still retain their cultural identities. ...and what about switching from the Imperial to the Metric system? It's much more logical.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 9:40:17 GMT
The purpose of the EU is ever closer union towards a political and economic union, a United States of Europe. The EU would love us to join the Euro and intend us to do so. "Plenty of independence " isn't the same as being an independent sovereign country. Ask Australia. We are laughing stocks because Remainers have meant that despite a desire to do so we have not left the EU. We look incapable of being an independent, sovereign country Out of interest and I'm not in favour of this, but would it really be such a big deal if we switched to the EURO? You would expect that over time countries evolve and adapt to the world around them. It's like a team in the Prem. You can't afford to stand still or you get left behind. Many countries in Europe have switched and they still retain their cultural identities. ...and what about switching from the Imperial to the Metric system? It's much more logical. Standing still and being left behind assumes that you are happy with the direction of travel and those controlling the direction of travel. Im not sure that the Euro works for the Greeks or Italians for example. Other ( mainly East European) countries are happy to put up with it because overall they are financially net beneficiaries. You/ someone can argue for a single currency ( but let's be open and honest about what we are arguing for) but for me once you give up control of your currency you lose control of all policies and independence, game ,set and match. I don't want that....others can argue for it. Mind you...the Euro question does focus the debate.... imagine Japan or China being told " we will only trade with you if you give up your currencies and join the Euro".....its about Political and Economic control, not trade. I wasn't a fan of Thatcher at the time but she was correct on this.
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Post by Northy on Jul 11, 2019 10:27:21 GMT
Ive just had an e-mail from the environment agency, basically saying that now the date is moving to 31st October, and if we leave with a no deal, the government policy is still collect the EU carbon tax but for ourselves starting 4th November
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 11:07:23 GMT
Ive just had an e-mail from the environment agency, basically saying that now the date is moving to 31st October, and if we leave with a no deal, the government policy is still collect the EU carbon tax but for ourselves starting 4th November These politicians are literally stringing this out for as long as possible aren't they. I guess they're happy picking up their wage packets, benefits, etc whilst not actually doing anything. Happy days. If BJ does become PM then I'm trying to see it as a win-win. 1) We finally leave the EU in October, we end all this pathetic squabbling, and BJ gets shafted as whatever the agreed deal is will be shit. OR 2) We remain, we end all this pathetic squabbling, and BJ get's shafted for not delivering on Brexit as he promised. In either case, I'm happy to see Boris in the firing line rather than having to watch him worm his way to top by criticising everyone else from behind his newspaper column.
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 11:19:44 GMT
Out of interest and I'm not in favour of this, but would it really be such a big deal if we switched to the EURO? You would expect that over time countries evolve and adapt to the world around them. It's like a team in the Prem. You can't afford to stand still or you get left behind. Many countries in Europe have switched and they still retain their cultural identities. ...and what about switching from the Imperial to the Metric system? It's much more logical. Standing still and being left behind assumes that you are happy with the direction of travel and those controlling the direction of travel. Im not sure that the Euro works for the Greeks or Italians for example. Other ( mainly East European) countries are happy to put up with it because overall they are financially net beneficiaries. You/ someone can argue for a single currency ( but let's be open and honest about what we are arguing for) but for me once you give up control of your currency you lose control of all policies and independence, game ,set and match. I don't want that....others can argue for it. Mind you...the Euro question does focus the debate.... imagine Japan or China being told " we will only trade with you if you give up your currencies and join the Euro".....its about Political and Economic control, not trade. I wasn't a fan of Thatcher at the time but she was correct on this. I'm not arguing for the single currency. I'm just saying that the pros and cons on all things EU/UK should be weighed up. If something EU is better than what's used in the UK and WILL benefit the UK more than something which is possibly outdated, then I have no problem adopting it. For example the metric system or 2-pin plugs. At the end of the day, whatever happens, the UK isn't going anywhere. We're not going to be overrun with Germans. We'll still feel and act British and we'll still have our cultural identity.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 11, 2019 11:25:52 GMT
The current strategy is to do everything to undermine Boris for the reasons Patrick gives. I take it you missed the hour long Politicly motivated nonsense that preceded the news BJR? Even Barry Sheerman who has been a massive critic on the way Labour have handled anti-Semitism concluded, Who do you think it is the BBC are 'for' because it ain't fucking Corbyn or Labour that is for cock sure certain.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 11, 2019 11:31:39 GMT
The current strategy is to do everything to undermine Boris for the reasons Patrick gives. I take it you missed the hour long Politicly motivated nonsense that preceded the news BJR? Even Barry Sheerman who has been a massive critic on the way Labour have handled anti-Semitism concluded, Who do you think it is the BBC are 'for' because it ain't fucking Corbyn or Labour that is for cock sure certain. The BBC like all MSM are for making headlines, grabbing attention and making more 'noise' than the competition. The targets and facts are irrelevant, reaction is all they want.
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 11:38:09 GMT
The current strategy is to do everything to undermine Boris for the reasons Patrick gives. Ok, maybe just take a step back from the 'undermining' and all the other stuff being said about BJ and then look at him from the perspective of a neutral. Is he really the kind of person you want to see running and representing the UK. Whether it's his demeanor, his personal life antics, his hair, etc. Do you really want him being the face associated with the UK. I mean, really? We have a country of 60m people and is BJ really the best we can come up with? God help us all.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 12:01:23 GMT
The current strategy is to do everything to undermine Boris for the reasons Patrick gives. Ok, maybe just take a step back from the 'undermining' and all the other stuff being said about BJ and then look at him from the perspective of a neutral. Is he really the kind of person you want to see running and representing the UK. Whether it's his demeanor, his personal life antics, his hair, etc. Do you really want him being the face associated with the UK. I mean, really? We have a country of 60m people and is BJ really the best we can come up with? God help us all. I've said similar on a previous thread about almost all our ( career) politicians and political class. That's why the BREXIT party ,at the moment, is s breath of fresh air. .. the big two don't like these upstarts getting involved and having a say. BUT , Im very much a pragmatist.. it seems like Boris is going to be the leader of the Tories and Prime minister. He's got a difficult job. He's already being undermined by those who can't accept Brexit. I am all for giving him s chance before we write him off...I like to give most people a bit of s chance first. Perhaps those 6bwant to undermine him are no better and have their own agenda. What's your practical alternative?...a GE and Corbyn with a view to Remain? .... That sounds a better prospect for the country? The Lib Dems? The Brexit party, Farage for PM ( I'd prefer this)
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 12:28:04 GMT
Ok, maybe just take a step back from the 'undermining' and all the other stuff being said about BJ and then look at him from the perspective of a neutral. Is he really the kind of person you want to see running and representing the UK. Whether it's his demeanor, his personal life antics, his hair, etc. Do you really want him being the face associated with the UK. I mean, really? We have a country of 60m people and is BJ really the best we can come up with? God help us all. I've said similar on a previous thread about almost all our ( career) politicians and political class. That's why the BREXIT party ,at the moment, is s breath of fresh air. .. the big two don't like these upstarts getting involved and having a say. BUT , I'm very much a pragmatist.. it seems like Boris is going to be the leader of the Tories and Prime minister. He's got a difficult job. He's already being undermined by those who can't accept Brexit. I am all for giving him s chance before we write him off...I like to give most people a bit of s chance first. Perhaps those 6bwant to undermine him are no better and have their own agenda. What's your practical alternative?...a GE and Corbyn with a view to Remain? .... That sounds a better prospect for the country? The Lib Dems? The Brexit party, Farage for PM ( I'd prefer this) Aside from Brexit (which BJ has also promised), what does the Brexit party have to offer? What's their take on the NHS, Education, Public services, Taxes, etc. For me, they're just a bunch of 2nd rate politicians riding on the current wave of resentment towards the government. I don't trust a single word any of them (or other politicians) say and I'm sure they would jump ship if it meant a better deal for them. BJ saw how quickly they got protest votes in the EU elections and now he's promised a leave in order to ensure the Brexit party disappears into oblivion. I really have no strong leanings towards any party as I'm skeptical of all of them. If I voted now I'd steer clear of Corbyn, BJ, Farage and vote Green (possibly Lib Dems) tbh.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 11, 2019 12:41:35 GMT
I've said similar on a previous thread about almost all our ( career) politicians and political class. That's why the BREXIT party ,at the moment, is s breath of fresh air. .. the big two don't like these upstarts getting involved and having a say. BUT , I'm very much a pragmatist.. it seems like Boris is going to be the leader of the Tories and Prime minister. He's got a difficult job. He's already being undermined by those who can't accept Brexit. I am all for giving him s chance before we write him off...I like to give most people a bit of s chance first. Perhaps those 6bwant to undermine him are no better and have their own agenda. What's your practical alternative?...a GE and Corbyn with a view to Remain? .... That sounds a better prospect for the country? The Lib Dems? The Brexit party, Farage for PM ( I'd prefer this) Aside from Brexit (which BJ has also promised), what does the Brexit party have to offer? What's their take on the NHS, Education, Public services, Taxes, etc. For me, they're just a bunch of 2nd rate politicians riding on the current wave of resentment towards the government. I don't trust a single word any of them (or other politicians) say and I'm sure they would jump ship if it meant a better deal for them. BJ saw how quickly they got protest votes in the EU elections and now he's promised a leave in order to ensure the Brexit party disappears into oblivion. I really have no strong leanings towards any party as I'm skeptical of all of them. If I voted now I'd steer clear of Corbyn, BJ, Farage and vote Green (possibly Lib Dems) tbh. Has the fact you're Brussels based, according to your profile, have anything to do with your opinion?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 12:52:24 GMT
The current strategy is to do everything to undermine Boris for the reasons Patrick gives. I take it you missed the hour long Politicly motivated nonsense that preceded the news BJR? Even Barry Sheerman who has been a massive critic on the way Labour have handled anti-Semitism concluded, Who do you think it is the BBC are 'for' because it ain't fucking Corbyn or Labour that is for cock sure certain. I missed the programme and have not watched MSM for about a year. ..including the Hunt/ Farage play off . I don't think that Corbyn would be allowed/ given a chance to be PM because of his history/ his colleagues/ the state of the Labour party. Whether he would be good ( I really have massive doubts that he and his team would be impressive and effective on the world stage, too much moaning, too cynical of everything, not much enthusiasm or vision) is really seconday.... in practice he would not be given a chance. In my opinion they have ( unfortunately)let the WC down very badly offering no vision or leadership post Brexit but just gone through confusing political manouverings and internal party wranglings. it's not enough to "get the Tories"...in my opinion the working class are cynical about all politicians not just the Tories.
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 12:59:16 GMT
Aside from Brexit (which BJ has also promised), what does the Brexit party have to offer? What's their take on the NHS, Education, Public services, Taxes, etc. For me, they're just a bunch of 2nd rate politicians riding on the current wave of resentment towards the government. I don't trust a single word any of them (or other politicians) say and I'm sure they would jump ship if it meant a better deal for them. BJ saw how quickly they got protest votes in the EU elections and now he's promised a leave in order to ensure the Brexit party disappears into oblivion. I really have no strong leanings towards any party as I'm skeptical of all of them. If I voted now I'd steer clear of Corbyn, BJ, Farage and vote Green (possibly Lib Dems) tbh. Has the fact you're Brussels based, according to your profile, have anything to do with your opinion? No. As whether we leave or remain doesn't impact me in the slightest. I don't work for any EU institution and I only want what is best for the UK. There are things that are better in the UK and things that are better in Western Europe. I think it would be a shame not to learn from the best things in the EU and try to implement them at home. For example, the health care and pension system here in Belgium which is massively better than in the UK. I think leaving the EU and what it has to offer would be a mistake, but it's not down to me.
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 11, 2019 13:05:58 GMT
Has the fact you're Brussels based, according to your profile, have anything to do with your opinion? No. As whether we leave or remain doesn't impact me in the slightest. I don't work for any EU institution and I only want what is best for the UK. There are things that are better in the UK and things that are better in Western Europe. I think it would be a shame not to learn from the best things in the EU and try to implement them at home. For example, the health care and pension system here in Belgium which is massively better than in the UK. I think leaving the EU and what it has to offer would be a mistake, but it's not down to me. It affects everyone if they live in the UK.And seeing as Belgium is one of our top ten trading partners it will affect Belgium too.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2019 13:12:49 GMT
I've said similar on a previous thread about almost all our ( career) politicians and political class. That's why the BREXIT party ,at the moment, is s breath of fresh air. .. the big two don't like these upstarts getting involved and having a say. BUT , I'm very much a pragmatist.. it seems like Boris is going to be the leader of the Tories and Prime minister. He's got a difficult job. He's already being undermined by those who can't accept Brexit. I am all for giving him s chance before we write him off...I like to give most people a bit of s chance first. Perhaps those 6bwant to undermine him are no better and have their own agenda. What's your practical alternative?...a GE and Corbyn with a view to Remain? .... That sounds a better prospect for the country? The Lib Dems? The Brexit party, Farage for PM ( I'd prefer this) Aside from Brexit (which BJ has also promised), what does the Brexit party have to offer? What's their take on the NHS, Education, Public services, Taxes, etc. For me, they're just a bunch of 2nd rate politicians riding on the current wave of resentment towards the government. I don't trust a single word any of them (or other politicians) say and I'm sure they would jump ship if it meant a better deal for them. BJ saw how quickly they got protest votes in the EU elections and now he's promised a leave in order to ensure the Brexit party disappears into oblivion. I really have no strong leanings towards any party as I'm skeptical of all of them. If I voted now I'd steer clear of Corbyn, BJ, Farage and vote Green (possibly Lib Dems) tbh. First of all we haven't had a genersl election during the lifetime of the BREXIT party. Be realistic they have existed for lesd than 6 months. Amazing progress already wouldn't you say? The political class thought they had ' no brexit' sorted out until Farage had to step in... Seems like you already have your agenda.. None of the other parties have their manifestos out ( quite rightly) yet, things change/ timing is s political decision. Farage has done a remarkable job already.. .he will be ready if necessary if there is an election. They ( We) are as we speak putting together ideas on what they are calling Direct Democracy....as an aside...Ive had something through the podt this morning I believe that thry have some new refreshing candidates, that might be a good start.....what we do know is that they will put the UK first.....and we do know clearly where they stand on the biggest issues of this generation , BREXIT and democracy and sovereignty, which is more than you can say about any other party. Consistent and clear. I didn't think that people were so scared of chsnge( I know it is risky, life is risky). The Big two class have had a monopoly for years and people don't seem hsppy. I'll link a couple of Tice's thought through when I get chance.
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2019 13:17:28 GMT
No. As whether we leave or remain doesn't impact me in the slightest. I don't work for any EU institution and I only want what is best for the UK. There are things that are better in the UK and things that are better in Western Europe. I think it would be a shame not to learn from the best things in the EU and try to implement them at home. For example, the health care and pension system here in Belgium which is massively better than in the UK. I think leaving the EU and what it has to offer would be a mistake, but it's not down to me. It affects everyone if they live in the UK. Yes, my family (and me later) included.
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Post by yeokel on Jul 11, 2019 13:26:20 GMT
Has the fact you're Brussels based, according to your profile, have anything to do with your opinion? No. As whether we leave or remain doesn't impact me in the slightest. I don't work for any EU institution and I only want what is best for the UK. There are things that are better in the UK and things that are better in Western Europe. I think it would be a shame not to learn from the best things in the EU and try to implement them at home. For example, the health care and pension system here in Belgium which is massively better than in the UK. I think leaving the EU and what it has to offer would be a mistake, but it's not down to me. “ There are things that are better in the UK and things that are better in Western Europe. I think it would be a shame not to learn from the best things in the EU and try to implement them at home.” I’m sure I’ve seen maps which indicate that the UK is part of Western Europe. In fact, I’m absolutely sure it is. Please don’t conflate ‘Western Europe’ and the ‘EU’.
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 11, 2019 13:27:39 GMT
Aside from Brexit (which BJ has also promised), what does the Brexit party have to offer? What's their take on the NHS, Education, Public services, Taxes, etc. For me, they're just a bunch of 2nd rate politicians riding on the current wave of resentment towards the government. I don't trust a single word any of them (or other politicians) say and I'm sure they would jump ship if it meant a better deal for them. BJ saw how quickly they got protest votes in the EU elections and now he's promised a leave in order to ensure the Brexit party disappears into oblivion. I really have no strong leanings towards any party as I'm skeptical of all of them. If I voted now I'd steer clear of Corbyn, BJ, Farage and vote Green (possibly Lib Dems) tbh. First of all we haven't had a genersl election during the lifetime of the BREXIT party. Be realistic they have existed for lesd than 6 months. Amazing progress already wouldn't you say? The political class thought they had ' no brexit' sorted out until Farage had to step in... Seems like you already have your agenda.. None of the other parties have their manifestos out ( quite rightly) yet, things change/ timing is s political decision. Farage has done a remarkable job already.. .he will be ready if necessary if there is an election. They ( We) are as we speak putting together ideas on what they are calling Direct Democracy....as an aside...Ive had something through the podt this morning I believe that thry have some new refreshing candidates, that might be a good start.....what we do know is that they will put the UK first.....and we do know clearly where they stand on the biggest issues of this generation , BREXIT and democracy and sovereignty, which is more than you can say about any other party. Consistent and clear. I didn't think that people were so scared of chsnge( I know it is risky, life is risky). The Big two class have had a monopoly for years and people don't seem hsppy. I'll link a couple of Tice's thought through when I get chance. Not true, the Brexit party are just a re-vamped UKIP. Farage has seven times attempted to be an MP and has failed every time,he is just a protest vote and nothing else.Fresh new candidates=Anne widdecombe Farages is not new and neither are his policies (assuming he has more than one)he is just a right wing tory ,which is something Im surprised anyone in Stoke can relate too never mind vote for.
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