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Post by foster on Jul 9, 2019 19:53:20 GMT
What a two-faced shite hawk!!! Funny how money and power corrupt people. It’s obvious he’ll do anything for votes, even change his principles. How anyone could vote for this snake and his shambolic party is beyond me 🙄 He's never had an original thought in his head. He waits for someone to make a stand then goes against it. He's the modern day Woolfie Smith of the Tooting Popular Front. Power to the people my arse. Your hero Boris is just as bad.
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Post by vokeswagen on Jul 9, 2019 20:04:49 GMT
Your reaction perfectly encapsulates the risk for Corbyn of adopting this position. It's also worth noting that, a bit like Theresa May has been, he's stuck in an almost impossible conundrum. 1. Back Brexit and lose vast swathes of young/metropolitan voters to the Lib Dems, and face a certain coup from your own pro-Remain MPs 2. Back Remain and lose vast swathes of "traditional Labour" voters in places like Stoke to the Tories/Brexit Party. He loses a lot either way. I doubt that Cameron foresaw just how destructive this process would be for both of the main political parties. They both face more or less exactly the same problem in their own way. Strange times. Strange times indeed. Wait until Boris gets the keys to No.10, things will get even stranger. He’ll either be a great PM or be a fucking disaster. I take it you’ll think the latter 😀 I agree I think he'll probably go one way or the other and not in between My concern with him is that just like so many other candidates from either main party, he's been both pro and anti-Brexit in more or less the same breath. Hard to trust him. I think it also speaks volumes that several MPs on his own side of the house won't go near him with a bargepole, and he was seemingly held in fairly low regard as Foreign Secretary by career civil servants with no particular axe to grind. We'll see though.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 9, 2019 22:50:25 GMT
Your reaction perfectly encapsulates the risk for Corbyn of adopting this position. It's also worth noting that, a bit like Theresa May has been, he's stuck in an almost impossible conundrum. 1. Back Brexit and lose vast swathes of young/metropolitan voters to the Lib Dems, and face a certain coup from your own pro-Remain MPs 2. Back Remain and lose vast swathes of "traditional Labour" voters in places like Stoke to the Tories/Brexit Party. He loses a lot either way. I doubt that Cameron foresaw just how destructive this process would be for both of the main political parties. They both face more or less exactly the same problem in their own way. Strange times. Strange times indeed. Wait until Boris gets the keys to No.10, things will get even stranger. He’ll either be a great PM or be a fucking disaster. I take it you’ll think the latter 😀 You say "strange times", I say what's new in our politics? Reminder: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_KingdomAre the ones who fiddled their expenses all out of gaol and living off the fat? Remember sleaze: www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2009/01/29/sleaze-a-timelineCorbyn is just another in a long line of duplicitous politicians, who would sell their their granny to get a vote. He is clearly more afraid of losing the left wing academics support than loyal Labour voters who will vote Labour till the cows come home, no matter whether the leader is Corbyn, Milliband, Brown, Blair, Foot, or Kinnock.
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Post by starkiller on Jul 10, 2019 2:49:55 GMT
Strange times indeed. Wait until Boris gets the keys to No.10, things will get even stranger. He’ll either be a great PM or be a fucking disaster. I take it you’ll think the latter 😀 You say "strange times", I say what's new in our politics? Reminder: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_KingdomAre the ones who fiddled their expenses all out of gaol and living off the fat? Remember sleaze: www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2009/01/29/sleaze-a-timelineCorbyn is just another in a long line of duplicitous politicians, who would sell their their granny to get a vote. He is clearly more afraid of losing the left wing academics support than loyal Labour voters who will vote Labour till the cows come home, no matter whether the leader is Corbyn, Milliband, Brown, Blair, Foot, or Kinnock. Labour will storm it in London. And be history elsewhere. They speak to the ordinary man in the street in Islington to determine their direction.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Jul 10, 2019 4:01:02 GMT
Strange times indeed. Wait until Boris gets the keys to No.10, things will get even stranger. He’ll either be a great PM or be a fucking disaster. I take it you’ll think the latter 😀 You say "strange times", I say what's new in our politics? Reminder: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_KingdomAre the ones who fiddled their expenses all out of gaol and living off the fat? Remember sleaze: www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2009/01/29/sleaze-a-timelineCorbyn is just another in a long line of duplicitous politicians, who would sell their their granny to get a vote. He is clearly more afraid of losing the left wing academics support than loyal Labour voters who will vote Labour till the cows come home, no matter whether the leader is Corbyn, Milliband, Brown, Blair, Foot, or Kinnock. ”What’s new in our politics?” - The Tory Party slowly disintegrating, Labour Party been taken over by Corbyn and his Marxist cargo cult and the Brexit betrayal of 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU. I’d call that strange times, wouldn’t you? I agree that politics has been riddled with sleaze for many years...with politicians from all parties involved.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 10, 2019 7:14:18 GMT
What a two-faced shite hawk!!! Funny how money and power corrupt people. It’s obvious he’ll do anything for votes, even change his principles. How anyone could vote for this snake and his shambolic party is beyond me 🙄 Once Len and his mates took the side of the Balirite conspirators inside the Parliamentary Party there really was nowhere for him to go..... other than resign. There you have it. Vote for Labour under Corbyn and you get Len McCluskey running the country. Suddenly Big Bad Boris doesn't seem so frightening. (And he is of course very frightening! Everything is relative).
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 10, 2019 7:30:42 GMT
Once Len and his mates took the side of the Balirite conspirators inside the Parliamentary Party there really was nowhere for him to go..... other than resign. There you have it. Vote for Labour under Corbyn and you get Len McCluskey running the country. Suddenly Big Bad Boris doesn't seem so frightening. (And he is of course very frightening! Everything is relative). Not really, it's just how the democratic processes of the Labour Party work. If there's a majority in the Parliamentary Party, The Unions and allegedly the wider membership then policy will always follow. there's little a leader can do. That has always been one of the main differences between the Tories and Labour. What you have in Johnson is a a dangerous idiot. A puppet master for the ERG who will make us a tax haven by the channel. Vore Boris, get big business, right wing unregulated capitalism and a bonfire of workers rights.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 10, 2019 7:44:55 GMT
There you have it. Vote for Labour under Corbyn and you get Len McCluskey running the country. Suddenly Big Bad Boris doesn't seem so frightening. (And he is of course very frightening! Everything is relative). Not really, it's just how the democratic processes of the Labour Party work. If there's a majority in the Parliamentary Party, The Unions and allegedly the wider membership then policy will always follow. there's little a leader can do. That has always been one of the main differences between the Tories and Labour. What you have in Johnson is a a dangerous idiot. A puppet master for the ERG who will make us a tax haven by the channel. Vore Boris, get big business, right wing unregulated capitalism and a bonfire of workers rights. "Democratic processes of the Labour Party"
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 10, 2019 7:51:38 GMT
Does anyone have a sensible answer or theory as to why S-O-T is so strongly against the EU? When in reality S-O-T has done pretty well with grants etc from them. Which we would not have got off central government. How do you know they wouldnt have come from central government We would not have got the grants off the EU if Stoke-On-Trent had been invested in by our government .They dont give the grants to areas that dont need them.It has given Stoke £135 million in aid since 2014.Just imagine what the area would have been like without the money.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 10, 2019 8:11:36 GMT
Not really, it's just how the democratic processes of the Labour Party work. If there's a majority in the Parliamentary Party, The Unions and allegedly the wider membership then policy will always follow. there's little a leader can do. That has always been one of the main differences between the Tories and Labour. What you have in Johnson is a a dangerous idiot. A puppet master for the ERG who will make us a tax haven by the channel. Vore Boris, get big business, right wing unregulated capitalism and a bonfire of workers rights. "Democratic processes of the Labour Party" I'm not sure what's funny about that. Labour Policy is decided at its conference between all of its stakeholders. Tory policy is decided in the hedge fund boardroom's between those with the correct school tie. I know which is the more democratic
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 10, 2019 8:14:56 GMT
he was seemingly held in fairly low regard as Foreign Secretary by career civil servants with no particular axe to grind. That's been proved to be untrue the last few days. These unelected bureaucrats are not exclusive to the EU.
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 10, 2019 8:24:40 GMT
Does anyone have a sensible answer or theory as to why S-O-T is so strongly against the EU? When in reality S-O-T has done pretty well with grants etc from them. Which we would not have got off central government. Possibly for the same reason some Scots want independence despite being on the right side of the Barnett Formula- a desire for self-determination. I also know you're itching for people to say immigration and while that's certainly a factor, you may be surprised at how many ethnic minorities potentially voted to Leave. I know several and I'm aware that there's a bit of 'atmosphere' Normacott way between the Asian community and some of the newer arrivals there. Again you are incorrect,Im not fishing for immigration excuses at all,I dont live in the area now and my parents seem to have turned into a pair of Alf Garnetts since I've left ( Im blame senile dementia Doesn't really answer my question as to why SOT was more for leaving than most of its comparable areas.If you are right and independence is an issue,why are you willing to be told what to do by some southerners who possibly have never even been to Stoke and even if they have Im pretty sure they left sharply, unimpressed. I remember when we first went into the EU and I asked my father why he voted to go in he said because of the under funding in the area by government, he was always saying that the money always stays down south.Which if you think about it it still does.Without the help from the EU this area would imo be even poorer. The people in my eyes are barking up the wrong tree if they think SOT is going to benefit from leaving,it most certainly will not and Im worried about the future for the area.
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Post by Northy on Jul 10, 2019 8:25:51 GMT
How do you know they wouldnt have come from central government We would not have got the grants off the EU if Stoke-On-Trent had been invested in by our government .They dont give the grants to areas that dont need them.It has given Stoke £135 million in aid since 2014.Just imagine what the area would have been like without the money. Ive always said on here that as it was always a strong labour area as people would have voted for a donkey witha red rosette that Labour wouldnt invest, or the Tories. A german lady I know at our running club was explaining to me how she ended up here, she said she first came to the UK in Stoke for Uni, but left after a year to go to manchester, her comments 'I didnt realise that it would be like it is, it isn't pretty and it's hard to get about as a student'
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Post by numpty40 on Jul 10, 2019 9:18:20 GMT
Possibly for the same reason some Scots want independence despite being on the right side of the Barnett Formula- a desire for self-determination. I also know you're itching for people to say immigration and while that's certainly a factor, you may be surprised at how many ethnic minorities potentially voted to Leave. I know several and I'm aware that there's a bit of 'atmosphere' Normacott way between the Asian community and some of the newer arrivals there. Again you are incorrect,Im not fishing for immigration excuses at all,I dont live in the area now and my parents seem to have turned into a pair of Alf Garnetts since I've left ( Im blame senile dementia Doesn't really answer my question as to why SOT was more for leaving than most of its comparable areas.If you are right and independence is an issue,why are you willing to be told what to do by some southerners who possibly have never even been to Stoke and even if they have Im pretty sure they left sharply, unimpressed. I remember when we first went into the EU and I asked my father why he voted to go in he said because of the under funding in the area by government, he was always saying that the money always stays down south.Which if you think about it it still does.Without the help from the EU this area would imo be even poorer. The people in my eyes are barking up the wrong tree if they think SOT is going to benefit from leaving,it most certainly will not and Im worried about the future for the area. This might help explain a few reasons: www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-stoke-on-trent-city-of-stoke-on-trent-36516.html
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 10, 2019 9:56:14 GMT
Again you are incorrect,Im not fishing for immigration excuses at all,I dont live in the area now and my parents seem to have turned into a pair of Alf Garnetts since I've left ( Im blame senile dementia Doesn't really answer my question as to why SOT was more for leaving than most of its comparable areas.If you are right and independence is an issue,why are you willing to be told what to do by some southerners who possibly have never even been to Stoke and even if they have Im pretty sure they left sharply, unimpressed. I remember when we first went into the EU and I asked my father why he voted to go in he said because of the under funding in the area by government, he was always saying that the money always stays down south.Which if you think about it it still does.Without the help from the EU this area would imo be even poorer. The people in my eyes are barking up the wrong tree if they think SOT is going to benefit from leaving,it most certainly will not and Im worried about the future for the area. This might help explain a few reasons: www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-stoke-on-trent-city-of-stoke-on-trent-36516.htmlPoor education 33% leave without any qualifications is unbelievable,income,low property ownership,poor health,high unemployment. Immigration is lower than the rest of England. Sounds to me that reasons are born of frustration but the people seem to feel lost and are indeed in need of an ID.So they search for a solution, and think brexit is a possible solution to their problems.
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Post by Eggybread on Jul 10, 2019 9:57:54 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 10, 2019 11:57:05 GMT
”What’s new in our politics?” - The Tory Party slowly disintegrating, Labour Party been taken over by Corbyn and his Marxist cargo cult and the Brexit betrayal of 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU. I’d call that strange times, wouldn’t you? I agree that politics has been riddled with sleaze for many years...with politicians from all parties involved. I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 10, 2019 12:02:52 GMT
”What’s new in our politics?” - The Tory Party slowly disintegrating, Labour Party been taken over by Corbyn and his Marxist cargo cult and the Brexit betrayal of 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU. I’d call that strange times, wouldn’t you? I agree that politics has been riddled with sleaze for many years...with politicians from all parties involved. I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Spot on.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 10, 2019 12:50:58 GMT
A deal has been agreed. We just need Merkel to shake on it 😁
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Post by claytonscrubs on Jul 10, 2019 12:51:30 GMT
”What’s new in our politics?” - The Tory Party slowly disintegrating, Labour Party been taken over by Corbyn and his Marxist cargo cult and the Brexit betrayal of 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU. I’d call that strange times, wouldn’t you? I agree that politics has been riddled with sleaze for many years...with politicians from all parties involved. I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Absolutely spot on 👍 Quality post 👍
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 10, 2019 13:42:32 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Jul 10, 2019 15:01:48 GMT
Possibly for the same reason some Scots want independence despite being on the right side of the Barnett Formula- a desire for self-determination. I also know you're itching for people to say immigration and while that's certainly a factor, you may be surprised at how many ethnic minorities potentially voted to Leave. I know several and I'm aware that there's a bit of 'atmosphere' Normacott way between the Asian community and some of the newer arrivals there. Again you are incorrect,Im not fishing for immigration excuses at all,I dont live in the area now and my parents seem to have turned into a pair of Alf Garnetts since I've left ( Im blame senile dementia Doesn't really answer my question as to why SOT was more for leaving than most of its comparable areas.If you are right and independence is an issue,why are you willing to be told what to do by some southerners who possibly have never even been to Stoke and even if they have Im pretty sure they left sharply, unimpressed. I remember when we first went into the EU and I asked my father why he voted to go in he said because of the under funding in the area by government, he was always saying that the money always stays down south.Which if you think about it it still does.Without the help from the EU this area would imo be even poorer. The people in my eyes are barking up the wrong tree if they think SOT is going to benefit from leaving,it most certainly will not and Im worried about the future for the area. Because the south of England is still the UK I'm sure there are plenty of SNP voters in the Outer Hebrides who've never set foot in Stirling, it's a complete irrelevance.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 10, 2019 15:08:27 GMT
But Clive Lewis and John McDonnell want to "remain and reform". They are beyond reform. And it's Leavers who are deluded?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jul 10, 2019 15:11:02 GMT
Again you are incorrect,Im not fishing for immigration excuses at all,I dont live in the area now and my parents seem to have turned into a pair of Alf Garnetts since I've left ( Im blame senile dementia Doesn't really answer my question as to why SOT was more for leaving than most of its comparable areas.If you are right and independence is an issue,why are you willing to be told what to do by some southerners who possibly have never even been to Stoke and even if they have Im pretty sure they left sharply, unimpressed. I remember when we first went into the EU and I asked my father why he voted to go in he said because of the under funding in the area by government, he was always saying that the money always stays down south.Which if you think about it it still does.Without the help from the EU this area would imo be even poorer. The people in my eyes are barking up the wrong tree if they think SOT is going to benefit from leaving,it most certainly will not and Im worried about the future for the area. Because the south of England is still the UK I'm sure there are plenty of SNP voters in the Outer Hebrides who've never set foot in Stirling, it's a complete irrelevance. Stoke-on-Trent has positively thrived under the EU hasn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 16:07:53 GMT
But Clive Lewis and John McDonnell want to "remain and reform". They are beyond reform. And it's Leavers who are deluded? It's a disgrace and normally receives no coverage whatsoever. At least the Brexit Party MEP's will publicise this farce. The sooner we leave this corrupt undemocratic club the better.
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Post by franklin66 on Jul 10, 2019 17:18:47 GMT
But Clive Lewis and John McDonnell want to "remain and reform". They are beyond reform. And it's Leavers who are deluded? It's a disgrace and normally receives no coverage whatsoever. At least the Brexit Party MEP's will publicise this farce. The sooner we leave this corrupt undemocratic club the better. It makes FIFA look great lol I wonder how much money goes "missing" it really is a MAFIA.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 10, 2019 18:02:55 GMT
Leavers have been accused of many things. I don't particularly like name calling and labelling people but it is strange how different people think. It often seems that some Remainers don't actually like the UK.
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Post by foster on Jul 10, 2019 19:11:10 GMT
”What’s new in our politics?” - The Tory Party slowly disintegrating, Labour Party been taken over by Corbyn and his Marxist cargo cult and the Brexit betrayal of 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU. I’d call that strange times, wouldn’t you? I agree that politics has been riddled with sleaze for many years...with politicians from all parties involved. I still find events generally repeat what has happened in the past. Ted Heath went to the country on a "Who rules Britain? Government or miners union" agenda , and the electorate decided "Well not you!" and there was a huge increase in the Liberal party vote, the biggest since another megalomaniac Lloyd George split the Liberal Party. The Tory vote collapsed, the Labour vote went down, but under our crazy first past the post electoral system, Harold Wilson actually won with the most MPs but no majority. Once the country had settled down over the miners striking, Wilson called a snap election to establish a small majority government. The left wing of the Labour Party took over when Michael Foot was leader and made them un-electable. Kinnock had massive problems with controlling the party with Trotskyist Militant Tendancy out of control. The Brexit Party could split the right and centre vote and let Corbyn into power with our electoral system, just as happened in February 1974. Corbyn clearly now thinks he can woo all the Liberal Democrat Remain voters by becoming a Remainer and sod the blue collar workers who traditional vote labour and want to be out of the EU. As I said above, many of them will keep voting Labour because they don't and will not associate themselves with other parties. Before the referendum, I doubted that a majority would vote to leave with the concerted campaign by the government, bankers, media etc. saying we should stay in and forecasting disaster, even if we just voted to leave, never mind actually leave. Call me an old cynic, but I also said that even if a majority did vote to leave the establishment of the country would find a way of stopping it. Parliament has done a good job of it, and we haven't even gone to the Lords yet! But even if parliament voted to leave, I believe someone like the judiciary would step in and stop it, and say we are subject to EU law and can only leave if they agree, or something like that. Or the civil service would undermine it as they have done in the negotiations with the EU where May's "agreement" still effectively leaves us governed by the EU on all commercial/trading matters and prevents us making trade agreements with others, and that is before we have had 2 years negotiating a trade agreement. I have no doubt that "the powers that be" will find a way to stop Brexit. Someone has done a job on Corbyn and they will do a job on BoJo. I have a dreadful fear that the UK will end up crawling back to the Brussels bureaucrats. The EU have destroyed our traditional industries whilst, for example, Germany, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, and Austria continue to have thriving steel industries. They will go on to destroy our other industries like finance, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and aerospace, and we will end up like Spain and Greece on the fringes of Europe with massive unemployment dependant on a tourist industry. Call me alarmist if you like but I have worked closely with Europeans, had French and Dutch bosses and I know they are out to take what they can from this country, hence our massive trade deficit with the EU. fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/The above link demonstrates that our future trading position has to be with the rest of the world where over 90% of future economic growth lies. It will not be easy to change from looking inward to a stagnant Europe to outwards to a growing world market. We still have massive advantages with our own currency, the English language, and the 5th biggest world economy. The EU will take away our currency if we agree to remain and engage in "ever closer union" and Germany will come to totally dominate Europe. Last two paragraphs are fear mongering based on your own opinion and in no way proven to be fact. Unless of course you can see the future. If anything gets given up to the EU then blame the elected politicians at home. I've worked with far more Europeans than you I imagine and not a single one of them is out to get what they can from us. In fact, they couldn't care less about the UK and just want us to stop wasting their time and decide what the fuck we're going to do. Lastly, I don't see why the UK can't lead the line in Europe like Germany and France do. You need allies and standing alone is going to be disaster....imo.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2019 19:21:38 GMT
The Independent and the Express are both running with versions of this story.
‘Remain alliance’ formed to stop Brexiteers from being elected to Commons
Remainer’s have begun yet another plot to stop Brexit by forming a “Remain alliance” in an attempt to limit the number of leaver supporters elected into the House of Commons. The Pro-EU group, led by former Tory MP Heidi Allen, has outlined a plan to work with all Remain-supporting parties and Independent MP's to boost the Remain vote at future parliamentary elections by only selecting Pro-EU candidates. Independent MP, Mrs Allen, said the Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party all want to stay in the bloc and insisted people have been “crying out” for Remain parties to work together following the EU elections. Mrs Allen said: “At the European elections, people were crying out for Remain parties to work together. “We need one organisation to essentially bring all the Remain parties together with the exception of the SNP in Scotland, they are of the view they are the leading Remain voice there.”
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What an absolute bunch of shysters they really are ! Whatever happened to democracy when they will go to these depths to try to overturn the referendum result.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 10, 2019 19:29:12 GMT
Leavers have been accused of many things. I don't particularly like name calling and labelling people but it is strange how different people think. It often seems that some Remainers don't actually like the UK. Typical Lib Scummer- but Chris Davies has form for bullying women (and anti-semitism) euobserver.com/political/21519
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