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Post by henry on Mar 19, 2019 9:16:10 GMT
Loads of criticism of Bercow today. As if he got us into this mess. What about a bit towards the PM for not knowing the laws of the land she supposed to be governing. It's not like she hasn't got loads of advisors being paid loads of money to know these things. She knew
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 19, 2019 9:25:36 GMT
I am pretty sure that the PM and others are letting this get to such a difficult and unsolvable position so that they,and eventually we, will have no choice but have another vote.
By doing this they hope to be able to have no blame put on themselves for denying the result of the referendum and ignoring the will of the people.
Not a betting man but a few quid on a second vote this summer could be a wise investment.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 19, 2019 9:49:04 GMT
So Bercow uses precedent from 1604 to rule out MV3 unless there 'substantial' changes to motion. Fine. HoC voted against a 2nd ref last week so that couldn't come back to a vote. They also voted against the indicative votes and Parliament taking control. Hilarious to see SNP commons leader Blackford supporting Bercow's decision but would happily sell his grandmother to rerun indy ref2, 3 and 4 on the same question.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 19, 2019 9:49:05 GMT
Interesting. Being said this morning that Bercow refusing a re-submission of May's deal also applies to Wollaston's second referendum and Corbyn's Customs Union amendments. Unless substantially different Ref2 and CU are equally dead.....or not.
So IF there is no extension allowed by the EU and there is an advisory only no deal blocked, what happens on 29th March?
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Post by auntiegeorge on Mar 19, 2019 9:49:48 GMT
I hope all of you realise that this has never really been Theresa May's deal. It's been Angela Merkel's deal.
Just food for thought...
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 19, 2019 9:50:21 GMT
Remainer's didn't know what they were voting for. It wasn't the status quo.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 19, 2019 10:21:03 GMT
Yet another No Deal side deal that we were told couldn't happen. Erasmus students unaffected in the event of not signing the WA.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 19, 2019 10:33:30 GMT
First time I have put Sky on, today, and straight away there's two Remainers on the panel. Fuck me steady. And after the break, another fucker, Dominic Grieve. Drip, drip, drip.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 19, 2019 10:34:50 GMT
Interesting. Being said this morning that Bercow refusing a re-submission of May's deal also applies to Wollaston's second referendum and Corbyn's Customs Union amendments. Unless substantially different Ref2 and CU are equally dead.....or not. So IF there is no extension allowed by the EU and there is an advisory only no deal blocked, what happens on 29th March? If, if, if ..... we'd leave on the 29th without agreeing the WA. WTO. But the word is that Bercow would allow ref2 and CU amendments because he will just ignore his own instruction but the question was what would the amendments be attached to?? The Government still needs to bring an motion.
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 19, 2019 11:06:35 GMT
Loads of criticism of Bercow today. As if he got us into this mess. What about a bit towards the PM for not knowing the laws of the land she supposed to be governing. It's not like she hasn't got loads of advisors being paid loads of money to know these things. Yeah. As if it was all going well before this happened. 😀
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 19, 2019 11:13:04 GMT
Loads of criticism of Bercow today. As if he got us into this mess. What about a bit towards the PM for not knowing the laws of the land she supposed to be governing. It's not like she hasn't got loads of advisors being paid loads of money to know these things. Yeah. As if it was all going well before this happened. 😀 It's all a charade. They are taking the piss out of the public, and getting away with it.
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Post by ohbottom on Mar 19, 2019 11:30:29 GMT
Remainer's didn't know what they were voting for. It wasn't the status quo. I'm confused. Brexiters keep telling me the EU is on the point of collapse, other Brexiters say it's about to become the United States of Europe. Which is it?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 19, 2019 11:37:15 GMT
Remainer's didn't know what they were voting for. It wasn't the status quo. I'm confused. Brexiters keep telling me the EU is on the point of collapse, other Brexiters say it's about to become the United States of Europe. Which is it? They will "unite" the states of Europe....then collapse.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 19, 2019 12:01:24 GMT
Remainer's didn't know what they were voting for. It wasn't the status quo. I'm confused. Brexiters keep telling me the EU is on the point of collapse, other Brexiters say it's about to become the United States of Europe. Which is it? Whichever one you're most afraid of.
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Post by Davef on Mar 19, 2019 12:31:14 GMT
Is there anything to suggest that Guy Verhofstadt is the European Parliament's version of Jacob Rees-Mogg, ie a big mouth with little power or authority?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 19, 2019 14:52:28 GMT
Verhofstadt wrote a book called "The United States of Europe". This was back in 2006. This is the books introduction..........."France and the Netherlands have said no to the European Constitutional Treaty. The reasons for this no were varied. In addition to domestic political motives, contradictory fears were in play. Some thought the Treaty brought with it 'too much Europe'. Some thought it did not bring enough Europe. Others, particularly in the Netherlands, were protesting against the supposed cost of Europe. Yet others thought that the European Union's enlargement has gone ahead much too quickly. What is the next step? Europe is at a crossroads. But the choice is simple. Should we let Europe shrivel to a simple free trade zone, as some wish? Or do we take up again the European challenge and create a genuinely political Europe, a Europe that can play a role in the world; a Europe with the capacity to modernise its own economy and respond to the economic developments coming from China, India and Japan. The Belgian Prime Minister, Guy Verhofstadt does not mince his words. He wishes to create a 'United States of Europe,' with all member states of the European Union participating if possible, with a group of 'pioneers' if necessary. His book is required reading for anyone who cares about Europe."
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Post by shangamuzo on Mar 19, 2019 14:56:48 GMT
Is there anything to suggest that Guy Verhofstadt is the European Parliament's version of Jacob Rees-Mogg, ie a big mouth with little power or authority? No but he's uglier than Mogg-could do with a dental appointment ASAP.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 19, 2019 17:21:29 GMT
Remainer's didn't know what they were voting for. It wasn't the status quo. I'm confused. Brexiters keep telling me the EU is on the point of collapse, other Brexiters say it's about to become the United States of Europe. Which is it? You ask a very valid question. On the one hand the People running the EU in Brussels are hell bent on creating a united states of Europe where every country will be subjected to rule from the centre. On the other hand there is huge disparity in wealth an employment and social unrest. Greece is the worst off in Europe www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/21/greece-europe-eu-austeritybut the other southern European states are suffering, for example unemployment in Spain is higher than any other country in the Western world. This is leading large sections of many societies in Europe wanting to rebel. The Trump victory and Brexit have fueled an anti establishment feelings in the Netherlands. Clearly Europe is heading in 2 directions at the moment. The establishment want more and more unification, whilst anti- establishment feelings grow. There is also unrest in Eastern Europe ( www.politico.eu/article/hungary-poland-tell-eu-dont-shut-us-out/ ) where ex-soviet countries are feeling increasingly uncomfortable with Brussels domineering attitude. Quote "We don't want to be in an empire again...." I think point of collapse is probably exaggerating that point of view, but we do know from history that a change in direction (e.g. collapse of Soviet Union, outbreak of WWI) that things can change in a major way very suddenly sometimes.
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Post by 4372 on Mar 19, 2019 18:44:53 GMT
Did anyone else ever have that General Studies lesson about how the southern European states were generally poorer than the northern ones since the Reformation?
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 19:35:13 GMT
I'm confused. Brexiters keep telling me the EU is on the point of collapse, other Brexiters say it's about to become the United States of Europe. Which is it? You ask a very valid question. On the one hand the People running the EU in Brussels are hell bent on creating a united states of Europe where every country will be subjected to rule from the centre. On the other hand there is huge disparity in wealth an employment and social unrest. Greece is the worst off in Europe www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/21/greece-europe-eu-austeritybut the other southern European states are suffering, for example unemployment in Spain is higher than any other country in the Western world. This is leading large sections of many societies in Europe wanting to rebel. The Trump victory and Brexit have fueled an anti establishment feelings in the Netherlands. Clearly Europe is heading in 2 directions at the moment. The establishment want more and more unification, whilst anti- establishment feelings grow. There is also unrest in Eastern Europe ( www.politico.eu/article/hungary-poland-tell-eu-dont-shut-us-out/ ) where ex-soviet countries are feeling increasingly uncomfortable with Brussels domineering attitude. Quote "We don't want to be in an empire again...." I think point of collapse is probably exaggerating that point of view, but we do know from history that a change in direction (e.g. collapse of Soviet Union, outbreak of WWI) that things can change in a major way very suddenly sometimes. Mr coke I asked you a question a few pages ago .. Why did you vote a fervent Remainer into power at the last election.? With the specific job of leading us out of the UK. This was in response to your comments about beliefs and convictions.
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Post by ohbottom on Mar 19, 2019 20:39:12 GMT
ukhumanrightsblog.com/2019/03/19/no-deal-brexit-may-be-unlawful-a-view-from-rose-slowe/?fbclid=IwAR0mYUCRZrdNxYz8RfyXNjU-cgIUOLVr6ar8-x4x2c03RsxB5hb0NNm7jJM"Leaving the EU without a deal on 29 March 2019 is not the “legal default”, as has been repeatedly, but wrongly, asserted. It would, in fact, be in violation of the supreme law at both the domestic and supranational level, namely the UK constitution and EU Treaties (or more broadly, the General Principles of Community Law which includes ECJ jurisprudence alongside the Treaties). As such, without an Act of Parliament authorising Brexit in whatever form, the legal default is that the Article 50 notice issued will lapse, if not unilaterally revoked".
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 20:47:28 GMT
ukhumanrightsblog.com/2019/03/19/no-deal-brexit-may-be-unlawful-a-view-from-rose-slowe/?fbclid=IwAR0mYUCRZrdNxYz8RfyXNjU-cgIUOLVr6ar8-x4x2c03RsxB5hb0NNm7jJM"Leaving the EU without a deal on 29 March 2019 is not the “legal default”, as has been repeatedly, but wrongly, asserted. It would, in fact, be in violation of the supreme law at both the domestic and supranational level, namely the UK constitution and EU Treaties (or more broadly, the General Principles of Community Law which includes ECJ jurisprudence alongside the Treaties). As such, without an Act of Parliament authorising Brexit in whatever form, the legal default is that the Article 50 notice issued will lapse, if not unilaterally revoked". Shut the back door. We're staying 😁😁😁😁🎉🎉
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 19, 2019 20:51:04 GMT
I have a brother-in-law who has "tuned out". He is not interested in Brexit anymore, totally disgusted and doesn't want to hear another word. He doesn't watch UK news any more to avoid it and will watch CNN. I have ticked him off and told him he is falling for exactly what the remainers want him to do. To lose interest and not bother any longer. They will keep kicking the Brexit can down the road until the general public lose interest or "give in" and only those who are seen as extremists remain protesting about the lack of action to get us out. I apologize to Teresa May for saying "lack of action" as she has tried very hard. Unfortunately she chose to go down a middle compromise route. That will never work with the hard line United Europeans in Brussels, they have no intention of compromising or letting any country leave the EU without making them suffer and pay for it. If they allowed the UK to just walk away, they know other countries will follow. Don't compromise your principles or beliefs, stick to what you believe. So why did you vote a fervent remainer into power to lead you out of the EU? Apologies for overlooking your question. I didn't vote Tory at the last election. I voted UKIP. Not that I have always voted right wing. In the 70s I was a young Liberal, a party member, involved in raising finance and posting leaflets through doors, etc. I was very much in favour of joining the Common Market as it was called. I has raging rows with my Tory father who maintained "You cannot have economic union without political union. You mark my words we will come to regret it when Europe rules this country." Subsequently I left the Liberals due to their duplicity, Thorpe, etc. and my father turned left wing, he was so anti Europe and agreed with Benn. Over the subsequent 40 + years my opinion on Europe has turned 180 degrees. 40 + years in industry during which I worked for French and Dutch and served on a European committee has made me realise how right my Dad was.
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 20:57:46 GMT
So why did you vote a fervent remainer into power to lead you out of the EU? Apologies for overlooking your question. I didn't vote Tory at the last election. I voted UKIP. Not that I have always voted right wing. In the 70s I was a young Liberal, a party member, involved in raising finance and posting leaflets through doors, etc. I was very much in favour of joining the Common Market as it was called. I has raging rows with my Tory father who maintained "You cannot have economic union without political union. You mark my words we will come to regret it when Europe rules this country." Subsequently I left the Liberals due to their duplicity, Thorpe, etc. and my father turned left wing, he was so anti Europe and agreed with Benn. Over the subsequent 40 + years my opinion on Europe has turned 180 degrees. 40 + years in industry during which I worked for French and Dutch and served on a European committee has made me realise how right my Dad was. Even though I don't agree with you... I admire your conviction and balls in voting UKIP. Fair play to you.
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 21:03:22 GMT
So why did you vote a fervent remainer into power to lead you out of the EU? Apologies for overlooking your question. I didn't vote Tory at the last election. I voted UKIP. Not that I have always voted right wing. In the 70s I was a young Liberal, a party member, involved in raising finance and posting leaflets through doors, etc. I was very much in favour of joining the Common Market as it was called. I has raging rows with my Tory father who maintained "You cannot have economic union without political union. You mark my words we will come to regret it when Europe rules this country." Subsequently I left the Liberals due to their duplicity, Thorpe, etc. and my father turned left wing, he was so anti Europe and agreed with Benn. Over the subsequent 40 + years my opinion on Europe has turned 180 degrees. 40 + years in industry during which I worked for French and Dutch and served on a European committee has made me realise how right my Dad was. I'd love to know how many hard core Brexiteers (on this messageboard) have voted Mrs May into power.
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Post by Northy on Mar 19, 2019 21:11:43 GMT
Apologies for overlooking your question. I didn't vote Tory at the last election. I voted UKIP. Not that I have always voted right wing. In the 70s I was a young Liberal, a party member, involved in raising finance and posting leaflets through doors, etc. I was very much in favour of joining the Common Market as it was called. I has raging rows with my Tory father who maintained "You cannot have economic union without political union. You mark my words we will come to regret it when Europe rules this country." Subsequently I left the Liberals due to their duplicity, Thorpe, etc. and my father turned left wing, he was so anti Europe and agreed with Benn. Over the subsequent 40 + years my opinion on Europe has turned 180 degrees. 40 + years in industry during which I worked for French and Dutch and served on a European committee has made me realise how right my Dad was. I'd love to know how many hard core Brexiteers (on this messageboard) have voted Mrs May into power. It's a no from me.
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 21:20:26 GMT
I'd love to know how many hard core Brexiteers (on this messageboard) have voted Mrs May into power. It's a no from me. UKIP ?
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Post by ravey123 on Mar 19, 2019 21:27:04 GMT
All these political games are beginning to make my head hurt.
With 10 days left what do we think will happen to Brexit
1 - Leave with no deal in 10 days
2 - Get May's deal voted through with a short extension
3 - Get a long extension (ie over 12 months)
4 - Cancel Brexit
5 - None of the above
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 19, 2019 21:29:06 GMT
Apologies for overlooking your question. I didn't vote Tory at the last election. I voted UKIP. Not that I have always voted right wing. In the 70s I was a young Liberal, a party member, involved in raising finance and posting leaflets through doors, etc. I was very much in favour of joining the Common Market as it was called. I has raging rows with my Tory father who maintained "You cannot have economic union without political union. You mark my words we will come to regret it when Europe rules this country." Subsequently I left the Liberals due to their duplicity, Thorpe, etc. and my father turned left wing, he was so anti Europe and agreed with Benn. Over the subsequent 40 + years my opinion on Europe has turned 180 degrees. 40 + years in industry during which I worked for French and Dutch and served on a European committee has made me realise how right my Dad was. I'd love to know how many hard core Brexiteers (on this messageboard) have voted Mrs May into power. No !
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 19, 2019 21:34:03 GMT
I'd love to know how many hard core Brexiteers (on this messageboard) have voted Mrs May into power. No ! UKIP?
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