What now for Brexit?

[RipRoaringPotter]

Mar 14, 2019 12:19:00 GMT trickydicky73 said:

Mar 14, 2019 10:43:17 GMT RipRoaringPotter said:

I would say almost certainly not, although Labour either a) believe differently, or b) will not be including that line about freedom of movement in their next election manifesto.

Apologies, because you have probably answered this before, but what do you make of May's deal?

I've not answered it for a few weeks now, so no need for the apologies.

The short answer is...I don't know. It's clearly not a good deal, but I also doubt anyone in her position (leader of a minority government - which is her own fault of course!) would've brought back anything better. In hindsight, it probably would've been better to have involved parliament when drawing up the negotiating strategy (i.e. have some votes on what the red lines should be etc), because whatever she negotiated had to be agreed by parliament anyway. The way it's been done now means the last nearly three years have been an utter waste of time. Where I think she has royally fucked up is continually pushing this deal, when it was clear there was not the support for it in the House of Commons back in October/November of last year. Then again, if it were to pass at the third time of asking, she will have been proved right on not ditching it.

In truth it's an absolute fuckpie of a situation, but it's a disaster that Parliament has not been able to find a reasoned, middle-ground solution - that's pretty much been the job of a democracy since it was invented. In one sense, that may have been May's deal - it stopped freedom of movement (which was a one of the bigger reasons why people voted to leave) and set the ground for us to leave the EU. I think the backstop has largely been used as a red herring to make the Brexiteer's favourite claim of "It's not Brexit", when really there is /was very slim possibility of the backstop coming into play. When you look at the fact that Brexit is one big risk (which could turn out absolutely fine, of course) it seems crazy to me that the ERG weren't prepared to take this relatively minor risk to take the next step to getting to their promised land. I think there's a fairly high chance that in voting against May's WA they've spunked away their chance of getting the hardest Brexit which was able to pass through parliament - although no deal is still an option depending on what the EU decide.

In a certain way, Parliament seems to be reflecting society pretty well - they seem to have completely lost the ability to compromise. Winning 52% of the vote certainly means they won the right to leave the EU, but it doesn't mean they have the right to get everything their own way in the whole process. As I stated a while ago, I think a second referendum with no remain option would've been the best way - but I think that ship has sailed. I can't help but think the EU may have been OK with outlining two different deals that were acceptable to them if we had been having that discussion a year or two ago.

As you can probably tell, I don't actually know what to think or where we'll end up. I just know parliament has bollocksed it up - and mainly that goes down to the Conservatives as it was on their watch, but not many people come out of it with any credit if truth be told.

[xchpotter]

Whatever the arguments on both sides, how can an MP abstain from such an important vote? Complete and utter wankers with no courage of whatever conviction they may have. Surely that’s not doing your job isn’t it?

[raythesailor]

A lengthy postponement, and then the government ( with tongues in cheeks) will reluctantly decide to have another referendum with cleverly worded questions.

As said before The Death of Democracy.

Hopefully the electorate will have long memories and give these charlatans the (dis) respect they deserve.

[xchpotter]

Mar 14, 2019 13:55:43 GMT raythesailor said:

A lengthy postponement, and then the government ( with tongues in cheeks) will reluctantly decide to have another referendum with cleverly worded questions.

As said before The Death of Democracy.

Hopefully the electorate will have long memories and give these charlatans the (dis) respect they deserve.

Correct and the plan all along. The cancer unfortunately runs too deep in this country with the establishment and any hair brained plight for the minority taking precedence over the majority all day long. I suppose one day I will be in a minority and assume will then automatically get what I want.

[bigjohnritchie]

Some people have said that the " negotiations" have made the UK a laughing stock. We certainly will be if the end result is staying in the EU, by whatever means/ words. All credibility as a nation and people will be lost.

[RipRoaringPotter]

Mar 14, 2019 14:05:47 GMT bigjohnritchie said:

Some people have said that the " negotiations" have made the UK a laughing stock. We certainly will be if the end result is staying in the EU, by whatever means/ words. All credibility as a nation and people will be lost.

He wasn't actually saying we SHOULD come to heel, he was predicting we would.

[upthefud]

Mar 14, 2019 10:33:48 GMT @estokie86 said:

Mar 14, 2019 10:27:42 GMT upthefud said:

I was angry about this a few months ago. Now I literally just don’t care.

We know what the politicians are and what they think of us. I for one will never vote again because, what’s the point?

That is what they want! If that is how you feel then you need to do something about it whether all that is is screaming and shouting at the top of your voice, trying to vote for a different government, or whatever. At the end of the day there are more of us (by us I mean ordinary working people whether leavers or remainers) than them but if we all sit at home and don't try to do anything then they'll bloody love it. Finally shut up us up. Finished what they started 40 years ago. You can't let them win.

I’m all up for yellow vesting, anarchy whatever. But listening to them chatting chat shit and bothering to put my cross in a box. No thanks

If there’s a second referendum imagine if turnout was below 30% or so. It’s the only way to let them know that we want them to get fucked

[starkiller]

Hungary, Poland or Italy to get us out with their veto on extension.

Basically doing our government's job for them.

We're out on the 29th.

[starkiller]

Mar 14, 2019 14:05:47 GMT bigjohnritchie said:

Some people have said that the " negotiations" have made the UK a laughing stock. We certainly will be if the end result is staying in the EU, by whatever means/ words. All credibility as a nation and people will be lost.

There was never this negotiation to sign us into this crap in the first place.

I'm guessing it's waffle, mumbo-jumbo, deception and invention to make it sound impossible to leave this organisation. The same nonsense they used to get us in.

[yeokel]

Mar 14, 2019 13:52:56 GMT RipRoaringPotter said:

Mar 14, 2019 12:19:00 GMT trickydicky73 said:

Apologies, because you have probably answered this before, but what do you make of May's deal?

I've not answered it for a few weeks now, so no need for the apologies.

The short answer is...I don't know. It's clearly not a good deal, but I also doubt anyone in her position (leader of a minority government - which is her own fault of course!) would've brought back anything better. In hindsight, it probably would've been better to have involved parliament when drawing up the negotiating strategy (i.e. have some votes on what the red lines should be etc), because whatever she negotiated had to be agreed by parliament anyway. The way it's been done now means the last nearly three years have been an utter waste of time. Where I think she has royally fucked up is continually pushing this deal, when it was clear there was not the support for it in the House of Commons back in October/November of last year. Then again, if it were to pass at the third time of asking, she will have been proved right on not ditching it.

In truth it's an absolute fuckpie of a situation, but it's a disaster that Parliament has not been able to find a reasoned, middle-ground solution - that's pretty much been the job of a democracy since it was invented. In one sense, that may have been May's deal - it stopped freedom of movement (which was a one of the bigger reasons why people voted to leave) and set the ground for us to leave the EU. I think the backstop has largely been used as a red herring to make the Brexiteer's favourite claim of "It's not Brexit", when really there is /was very slim possibility of the backstop coming into play. When you look at the fact that Brexit is one big risk (which could turn out absolutely fine, of course) it seems crazy to me that the ERG weren't prepared to take this relatively minor risk to take the next step to getting to their promised land. I think there's a fairly high chance that in voting against May's WA they've spunked away their chance of getting the hardest Brexit which was able to pass through parliament - although no deal is still an option depending on what the EU decide.

In a certain way, Parliament seems to be reflecting society pretty well - they seem to have completely lost the ability to compromise. Winning 52% of the vote certainly means they won the right to leave the EU, but it doesn't mean they have the right to get everything their own way in the whole process. As I stated a while ago, I think a second referendum with no remain option would've been the best way - but I think that ship has sailed. I can't help but think the EU may have been OK with outlining two different deals that were acceptable to them if we had been having that discussion a year or two ago.

As you can probably tell, I don't actually know what to think or where we'll end up. I just know parliament has bollocksed it up - and mainly that goes down to the Conservatives as it was on their watch, but not many people come out of it with any credit if truth be told.

A good, fairly accurate summary of where we are at the moment.

[bigjohnritchie]

Mar 14, 2019 14:34:24 GMT starkiller said:

Mar 14, 2019 14:05:47 GMT bigjohnritchie said:

Some people have said that the " negotiations" have made the UK a laughing stock. We certainly will be if the end result is staying in the EU, by whatever means/ words. All credibility as a nation and people will be lost.

There was never this negotiation to sign us into this crap in the first place.

I'm guessing it's waffle, mumbo-jumbo, deception and invention to make it sound impossible to leave this organisation. The same nonsense they used to get us in.

Kerr,in our H of L was the man who drew up Article 50, originally envisaged as a mechanism to expel a member state who didn't play by the rules

[neworleanstokie]

Writing as a non-voting Remainer expatriate (economic migrant) viewing from the US - the current state of play going into today is complete non-sense.

There was varying levels of understanding on BOTH sides going into the vote, like it or not (I don't personally) leave WON.

Leave meant leaving regardless of deal status on March 29th. If that doesn't happen the Remainers should march on Parliament.

[yeokel]

VW Laying people off, despite Brexit!
“The apology from Mr Diess came after the German car giant Volkswagen said it would cut 7,000 jobs, as it shifts its focus to electric cars, which require fewer workers to build”

Seems to echo words from Honda a few weeks ago.



BBC link
(the main story is about something else but I thought the lifted quote might ring a few bells or rattle a few cages)

[xchpotter]

Mar 14, 2019 14:31:23 GMT starkiller said:

Hungary, Poland or Italy to get us out with their veto on extension.

Basically doing our government's job for them.

We're out on the 29th.

Don’t worry, even if that was a possibility they will be brought into line with a cash sweetener from Brussels consisting of the very monetary contributions we’ve already made...you couldn’t make it up. How we have become controlled by the EU,who influence every move we make,just grates me.

[Northy]

Mar 14, 2019 14:29:56 GMT upthefud said:

Mar 14, 2019 10:33:48 GMT @estokie86 said:

That is what they want! If that is how you feel then you need to do something about it whether all that is is screaming and shouting at the top of your voice, trying to vote for a different government, or whatever. At the end of the day there are more of us (by us I mean ordinary working people whether leavers or remainers) than them but if we all sit at home and don't try to do anything then they'll bloody love it. Finally shut up us up. Finished what they started 40 years ago. You can't let them win.

I’m all up for yellow vesting, anarchy whatever. But listening to them chatting chat shit and bothering to put my cross in a box. No thanks

If there’s a second referendum imagine if turnout was below 30% or so. It’s the only way to let them know that we want them to get fucked

Vote for an independent or farages new Brexit party or the monster raving Looney lot, I'd love to see May ousted from her seat by somebody wearing a clowns outfit

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2019 15:45:12 GMT Northy said:

Mar 14, 2019 14:29:56 GMT upthefud said:

I’m all up for yellow vesting, anarchy whatever. But listening to them chatting chat shit and bothering to put my cross in a box. No thanks

If there’s a second referendum imagine if turnout was below 30% or so. It’s the only way to let them know that we want them to get fucked

Vote for an independent or farages new Brexit party or the monster raving Looney lot, I'd love to see May ousted from her seat by somebody wearing a clowns outfit

If Farage's Brexit party do contest the seat in my area I'll vote for them. Sod the Tories and Labour !

[Northy]

I feel I want to go on a march and shake my fists at somebody
Then hang about 400 politicians

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2019 15:59:03 GMT Northy said:

I feel I want to go on a march and shake my fists at somebody
Then hang about 400 politicians

There's the Leave march from Sunderland to the House of Conmen - 16th to 29th March I think.

[RipRoaringPotter]

Something fairly harmless to raise a smile about:

[harryburrows]

Mar 14, 2019 15:58:46 GMT @deesidestokie said:

Mar 14, 2019 15:45:12 GMT Northy said:

Vote for an independent or farages new Brexit party or the monster raving Looney lot, I'd love to see May ousted from her seat by somebody wearing a clowns outfit

If Farage's Brexit party do contest the seat in my area I'll vote for them. Sod the Tories and Labour !

Be careful of unintended consequences mate , I feel exactly the same but we may end up with corbyn in no 10

[Deleted]

Bercow has just blocked a bid to rule out a second referendum even though it was supported by more counter signatures than any other proposal today. He says MP's must "take the rough with the smooth".

Unsurprisingly he's been accused of "Brexit bias".

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2019 15:30:11 GMT yeokel said:

VW Laying people off, despite Brexit!
“The apology from Mr Diess came after the German car giant Volkswagen said it would cut 7,000 jobs, as it shifts its focus to electric cars, which require fewer workers to build”

Seems to echo words from Honda a few weeks ago.



BBC link
(the main story is about something else but I thought the lifted quote might ring a few bells or rattle a few cages)

Brexit is a convenient excuse anyway for these international companies who will do whatever is necessary to maximise their profits. They will go where labour is cheaper. The could not care less who does their work as long as its at the lowest cost. Whoever it was that moved to Singapore was for their cheaper labour and lower taxes - Brexit game them an excuse. Next we will face automation and what excuses are they going to try to use then?

I understand the concerns for smaller businesses who don't make a ton of money where Brexit and the restrictions on trade and tariffs will cause a problem. But these large companies are just using this an excuse.

[xchpotter]

Nigel’s not wrong on this one...will the EU go for it? I doubt it, why give your opponent the chance to get back up and fight when you can keep on beating them down.

[crapslinger]

Mar 14, 2019 16:29:56 GMT harryburrows said:

Mar 14, 2019 15:58:46 GMT @deesidestokie said:

If Farage's Brexit party do contest the seat in my area I'll vote for them. Sod the Tories and Labour !

Be careful of unintended consequences mate , I feel exactly the same but we may end up with corbyn in no 10

But we would have a clown in her place then, and we can all have free unicorns go to university for free and and and

[auntiegeorge]

Mar 14, 2019 16:34:54 GMT @estokie86 said:

Mar 14, 2019 15:30:11 GMT yeokel said:

VW Laying people off, despite Brexit!
“The apology from Mr Diess came after the German car giant Volkswagen said it would cut 7,000 jobs, as it shifts its focus to electric cars, which require fewer workers to build”

Seems to echo words from Honda a few weeks ago.



BBC link
(the main story is about something else but I thought the lifted quote might ring a few bells or rattle a few cages)

Brexit is a convenient excuse anyway for these international companies who will do whatever is necessary to maximise their profits. They will go where labour is cheaper. The could not care less who does their work as long as its at the lowest cost. Whoever it was that moved to Singapore was for their cheaper labour and lower taxes - Brexit game them an excuse. Next we will face automation and what excuses are they going to try to use then?

I understand the concerns for smaller businesses who don't make a ton of money where Brexit and the restrictions on trade and tariffs will cause a problem. But these large companies are just using this an excuse.

Off topic a bit but Ford in the USA is dropping all passenger cars this year and cutting thousands of jobs. No more Fiesta, Focus, Fusion (aka our Mondeo) or Taurus. The next Focus crossover will be built in China and imported into the United States in low numbers. Global companies have always done whatever they can to maximise profits, usually by seeking lower costs of labour nd production. Of course they blame it all on the politicians.

[bigjohnritchie]

Mar 14, 2019 15:30:11 GMT yeokel said:

VW Laying people off, despite Brexit!
“The apology from Mr Diess came after the German car giant Volkswagen said it would cut 7,000 jobs, as it shifts its focus to electric cars, which require fewer workers to build”

Seems to echo words from Honda a few weeks ago.



BBC link
(the main story is about something else but I thought the lifted quote might ring a few bells or rattle a few cages)

But RR are doing ok Yeokel

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/derbys-rolls-royce-secures-huge-2641149

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2019 16:41:29 GMT auntiegeorge said:

Mar 14, 2019 16:34:54 GMT @estokie86 said:

Brexit is a convenient excuse anyway for these international companies who will do whatever is necessary to maximise their profits. They will go where labour is cheaper. The could not care less who does their work as long as its at the lowest cost. Whoever it was that moved to Singapore was for their cheaper labour and lower taxes - Brexit game them an excuse. Next we will face automation and what excuses are they going to try to use then?

I understand the concerns for smaller businesses who don't make a ton of money where Brexit and the restrictions on trade and tariffs will cause a problem. But these large companies are just using this an excuse.

Off topic a bit but Ford in the USA is dropping all passenger cars this year and cutting thousands of jobs. No more Fiesta, Focus, Fusion (aka our Mondeo) or Taurus. The next Focus crossover will be built in China and imported into the United States in low numbers. Global companies have always done whatever they can to maximise profits, usually by seeking lower costs of labour nd production. Of course they blame it all on the politicians.

Indeed. Greedy capitalism is the real problem with all this. But I don't doubt for a second though that a huge number of our politicians make themselves a lot of money out of it. The things people aren't wrong that a lot of the EU laws facilitate this systems. And its not off topic at all is it because global companies leaving the UK is being used to scare people about leaving when its not about Brexit. Not really. It's just a convenient excuse. 

[RipRoaringPotter]

Mar 14, 2019 16:29:57 GMT @deesidestokie said:

Bercow has just blocked a bid to rule out a second referendum even though it was supported by more counter signatures than any other proposal today. He says MP's must "take the rough with the smooth".

Unsurprisingly he's been accused of "Brexit bias".

Worth having a look at some of the amendments he's rejected in recent days. Imagine if he'd have unleashed some of these badboys :

Amendment (a) on Scottish independence

Tabled by the Scottish National Party and backed by Plaid Cymru, this amendment states that Scotland should not be forced to leave the EU against its will and that its “best future” lies in becoming an independent and sovereign member of the EU.

Amendment (b) from the Independent Group

This calls for an extension or revocation of the Article 50 negotiation process to allow for a second referendum by the end of September on whether to go ahead with any deal agreed by Parliament or remain in the EU.

Amendment (c) on extending or revoking Article 50

The first of multiple amendments tabled by the Lib Dems, this calls for the UK’s notice of intention to withdraw from the EU to be revoked before exit day on 29 March, unless the remaining 27 member states agree to an extension.

Amendment (d) on extending Article 50 for a referendum

Another amendment tabled by the Lib Dems. This calls for an extension of the Article 50 negotiation process beyond 29 March to allow for a second referendum on whether to exit under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement or stay in the EU.

Amendment (e) on making Brexit a priority in Parliament

This amendment would require debate on the “crisis” over the UK’s future relationship with the EU to take priority over any other business in the Commons every day until 29 March. It was again tabled by the Lib Dems.

Amendment (g) is a private member’s bill

This has been tabled by Labour backbencher Geraint Davies and backed by a handful of Labour, Lib Dem and Plaid MPs. This amendment would require Mrs May to seek an extension to negotiations and would secure parliamentary time to debate and vote on Mr Davies’ private member’s bill paving the way for a second referendum.

Amendment (h) on revoking Article 50

A cross-party amendment, this would simply require Mrs May by 29 March to withdraw the UK’s notice of intention to leave the EU.

Amendment (i) from Plaid Cymru

This amendment would require Article 50 to be extended to 2021, with a referendum at the end of that period with Remain on the ballot paper.

Amendment (j) on a Scottish referendum

This amendment, from the SNP’s Angus MacNeil, would require ministers to authorise a Scottish independence referendum.

Amendment (f) on the economy

A final amendment from the Lib Dems would require the Government to create an emergency Brexit Support Fund of at least £7.5 billion to mitigate the impact of job losses caused by Brexit.

[numpty40]

Mar 14, 2019 16:56:02 GMT RipRoaringPotter said:

Mar 14, 2019 16:29:57 GMT @deesidestokie said:

Bercow has just blocked a bid to rule out a second referendum even though it was supported by more counter signatures than any other proposal today. He says MP's must "take the rough with the smooth".

Unsurprisingly he's been accused of "Brexit bias".

Worth having a look at some of the amendments he's rejected in recent days. Imagine if he'd have unleashed some of these badboys :

Amendment (a) on Scottish independence

Tabled by the Scottish National Party and backed by Plaid Cymru, this amendment states that Scotland should not be forced to leave the EU against its will and that its “best future” lies in becoming an independent and sovereign member of the EU.

Amendment (b) from the Independent Group

This calls for an extension or revocation of the Article 50 negotiation process to allow for a second referendum by the end of September on whether to go ahead with any deal agreed by Parliament or remain in the EU.

Amendment (c) on extending or revoking Article 50

The first of multiple amendments tabled by the Lib Dems, this calls for the UK’s notice of intention to withdraw from the EU to be revoked before exit day on 29 March, unless the remaining 27 member states agree to an extension.

Amendment (d) on extending Article 50 for a referendum

Another amendment tabled by the Lib Dems. This calls for an extension of the Article 50 negotiation process beyond 29 March to allow for a second referendum on whether to exit under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement or stay in the EU.

Amendment (e) on making Brexit a priority in Parliament

This amendment would require debate on the “crisis” over the UK’s future relationship with the EU to take priority over any other business in the Commons every day until 29 March. It was again tabled by the Lib Dems.

Amendment (g) is a private member’s bill

This has been tabled by Labour backbencher Geraint Davies and backed by a handful of Labour, Lib Dem and Plaid MPs. This amendment would require Mrs May to seek an extension to negotiations and would secure parliamentary time to debate and vote on Mr Davies’ private member’s bill paving the way for a second referendum.

Amendment (h) on revoking Article 50

A cross-party amendment, this would simply require Mrs May by 29 March to withdraw the UK’s notice of intention to leave the EU.

Amendment (i) from Plaid Cymru

This amendment would require Article 50 to be extended to 2021, with a referendum at the end of that period with Remain on the ballot paper.

Amendment (j) on a Scottish referendum

This amendment, from the SNP’s Angus MacNeil, would require ministers to authorise a Scottish independence referendum.

Amendment (f) on the economy

A final amendment from the Lib Dems would require the Government to create an emergency Brexit Support Fund of at least £7.5 billion to mitigate the impact of job losses caused by Brexit.

They're a different breed politicians, they live in their own little bubble totally isolated from the outside world.
Whilst the Great British people continue to work to keep the country going, these jokers are playing debating games amongst themselves.
They really are childish self obsessed twats who have no concept of what happens in the real world outside of Westminster.

I'm at the stage now where I wish there was a general election because I think the public are sick and tired to death of these clowns and there really could be a serious backlash at the polling stations.

[RipRoaringPotter]

Mar 14, 2019 17:12:43 GMT numpty40 said:

Mar 14, 2019 16:56:02 GMT RipRoaringPotter said:

Worth having a look at some of the amendments he's rejected in recent days. Imagine if he'd have unleashed some of these badboys :

Amendment (a) on Scottish independence

Tabled by the Scottish National Party and backed by Plaid Cymru, this amendment states that Scotland should not be forced to leave the EU against its will and that its “best future” lies in becoming an independent and sovereign member of the EU.

Amendment (b) from the Independent Group

This calls for an extension or revocation of the Article 50 negotiation process to allow for a second referendum by the end of September on whether to go ahead with any deal agreed by Parliament or remain in the EU.

Amendment (c) on extending or revoking Article 50

The first of multiple amendments tabled by the Lib Dems, this calls for the UK’s notice of intention to withdraw from the EU to be revoked before exit day on 29 March, unless the remaining 27 member states agree to an extension.

Amendment (d) on extending Article 50 for a referendum

Another amendment tabled by the Lib Dems. This calls for an extension of the Article 50 negotiation process beyond 29 March to allow for a second referendum on whether to exit under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement or stay in the EU.

Amendment (e) on making Brexit a priority in Parliament

This amendment would require debate on the “crisis” over the UK’s future relationship with the EU to take priority over any other business in the Commons every day until 29 March. It was again tabled by the Lib Dems.

Amendment (g) is a private member’s bill

This has been tabled by Labour backbencher Geraint Davies and backed by a handful of Labour, Lib Dem and Plaid MPs. This amendment would require Mrs May to seek an extension to negotiations and would secure parliamentary time to debate and vote on Mr Davies’ private member’s bill paving the way for a second referendum.

Amendment (h) on revoking Article 50

A cross-party amendment, this would simply require Mrs May by 29 March to withdraw the UK’s notice of intention to leave the EU.

Amendment (i) from Plaid Cymru

This amendment would require Article 50 to be extended to 2021, with a referendum at the end of that period with Remain on the ballot paper.

Amendment (j) on a Scottish referendum

This amendment, from the SNP’s Angus MacNeil, would require ministers to authorise a Scottish independence referendum.

Amendment (f) on the economy

A final amendment from the Lib Dems would require the Government to create an emergency Brexit Support Fund of at least £7.5 billion to mitigate the impact of job losses caused by Brexit.

They're a different breed politicians, they live in their own little bubble totally isolated from the outside world.
Whilst the Great British people continue to work to keep the country going, these jokers are playing debating games amongst themselves.
They really are childish self obsessed twats who have no concept of what happens in the real world outside of Westminster.

I'm at the stage now where I wish there was a general election because I think the public are sick and tired to death of these clowns and there really could be a serious backlash at the polling stations.

In fairness to them, "playing debating games" is actually a large part of their job - and correctly so. I actually find listening to debates to be quite informative, far more so than when they get themselves in front of a TV.

The bit they seem to be shit at is actually agreeing on a way forward once the debates have finished.