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Post by pearo on Mar 13, 2019 23:38:00 GMT
The Treaty of Lisbon, as signed on our behalf by Gordon Brown, says that all members of the EU have to take the Euro as it’s only form of currency by 2022. At least there will be no queues at the foreign exchanges
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 13, 2019 23:39:07 GMT
Hmmmm……...I'm very surprised at this article I've just found. According to the Independent a few days ago (can't do the link at the moment) Labour voters in the North and Midlands strongly back the party’s shift on a new Brexit referendum, according to a poll. The move is supported by 75% of people who voted Labour in the 2017 general election and expressed a preference, a YouGov survey for the People’s Vote campaign shows. More than one third, 35%, said the policy change to push for a new Brexit vote made them feel more favourably towards Labour, while 14% said it made them feel less so. The survey of 5,000 voters across the North, Yorkshire and Humber and the Midlands found that 76% would support staying in the EU, with 24% against. If it was a choice between Remain and backing prime minister Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement, the split would be 81% to 19% in favour of staying in the EU, according to the survey. Only 14% of those polled wanted their MP to back the government’s proposed terms for leaving the EU. And more than two thirds, 68%, said it was more important to maintain frictionless free trade than control immigration, while 17% disagreed with the statement. Peter Kellner, former president of YouGov, said: “The myth that Labour voters in the party’s heartlands favour Brexit is just that - a myth. “Those who voted Labour in 2017 in the Midlands and North favoured Remain by two-to-one in 2016, support Remain by three-to-one today; and, if given a referendum choice between Remain and Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement, back Remain by four-to-one. “That explains why such big majorities of these Labour voters want a new public vote and approve of Labour’s new policy. “This survey also suggests that Labour’s heartland supporters are less hostile to immigration than is commonly thought.” There's quite a lot of research to suggest more Labour voters voted Remain than Leave. It's widely been ignored on here when I've posted it previously, because it doesn't fit the narrative of Brexit being the working class v the elite. There's plenty of 'elites' (whatever the hell they're considered to be) in favour of Brexit, and working class people in favour of remaining. One of the reasons I believe MPs are struggling so much is because it's almost impossible to pander to 'your average Brexit voter' because they're just as likely to be a wealthy, ageing bloke from the Home Counties as they are to be a minimum wage shelf-stacker from a Northern city or town. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 13, 2019 23:40:43 GMT
The Treaty of Lisbon, as signed on our behalf by Gordon Brown, says that all members of the EU have to take the Euro as it’s only form of currency by 2022. At least there will be no queues at the foreign exchanges The Treaty of the Oatcake in 2019 has already pointed out that this Project Fear story is not true. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 13, 2019 23:41:10 GMT
The EU needs reform... we all know that. And how do you propose reforming the EU then? Any ideas? We would have had the power to actively engage in reformation and change in this organisation if we really had the collective public and political desire to do so. The UK has never embraced it fully because of the petty nationalist, imperialistic, attitudes of our people. |
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Post by lordb on Mar 13, 2019 23:43:23 GMT
As for a second referendum how you come to the conclusion that there would definitely be a larger vote for leave is mind boggling. Why is it mind boggling? We've all seen what everyone is about for the last couple of years. Our government and the EU representatives. Both are taking the piss. Because there is nothing to suggest the result would be radically different. I suspect the turnout would be much lower mind. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 23:43:25 GMT
And how do you propose reforming the EU then? Any ideas? We would have had the power to actively engage in reformation and change in this organisation if we really had the collective public and political desire to do so. The UK has never embraced it fully because of the petty nationalist, imperialistic, attitudes of our people.As opposed to the money grubbing pricks that run the EU. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 13, 2019 23:44:53 GMT
We would have had the power to actively engage in reformation and change in this organisation if we really had the collective public and political desire to do so. The UK has never embraced it fully because of the petty nationalist, imperialistic, attitudes of our people.As opposed to the money grubbing pricks that run the EU. What a silly statement. |
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Post by lordb on Mar 13, 2019 23:46:10 GMT
Labour isn't unified behind remain and the Conservatives are even more divided on the issue. Absolute nonsense to suggest that an election could be fought on the basis that Labour = remain and Conservative = leave. The Lib Dems are the remain party. The lib dems are remain, so are Labour... I think?? nobody really knows there position not even them. All I know is Labour MP's overwhelmingly try to frustrate leaving at every possible opportunity and vote in Westminster. Can you please clear up their actual position as regards leave/remain so that everybody else, myself included understands what if any position they hold? You've just disproved your own original assertion that Labour is the party of Remain. It isn't, it's split. Not as deeply split as the Tories but split all the same. Neither party would be able to fight a General Election on the grounds they were the Remain or Leave party. |
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Post by pearo on Mar 13, 2019 23:46:44 GMT
Just to point out the way our electoral system works. Paul Farrely won 38% in 2015(pre Brexit referendum) of the vote to win his seat to be elected the democratic member for Newcastle under Lyme (48% in post referendum 2017) 37% voted remain in Newcastle under Lyme in the referendum. Just saying... That's why politics and referendum don't mix. As per my posts two and half years ago. It's a box that's been opened that cannot be closed. We have sliced open a division of political parties, families, business and society that will take years to heal. The status quo has been kicked into touch and ultimately the normal hard working people of this country will suffer. One way or another. The UKIP extremists under the leadership of Nigel Farage have systematically chipped away, with the help of the Daily Mail and the Sun, at the general public to stir up a general manic campaign of fear and loathing against the EU. Normally politics don't matter too much to the rank and file. We go along our merry way and either have a couple of extra pounds in our pockets or take ten minutes earlier in the hospital queue... This crock of shit is going to reverberate for decades. As stated earlier, for Rees Mogg to come out with a statement tonight... "She's not my Prime Minister she's the Queen's" Absolute chaos. But the Daily Mail and the Sun don’t get £4billion per annum from the EU like the BBC does, have you ever seen a pro Leave report on our ( Nationally funded license paying ) so called unbiased media outlet? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 23:48:04 GMT
As opposed to the money grubbing pricks that run the EU. What a silly statement.  |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 13, 2019 23:48:56 GMT
That's why politics and referendum don't mix. As per my posts two and half years ago. It's a box that's been opened that cannot be closed. We have sliced open a division of political parties, families, business and society that will take years to heal. The status quo has been kicked into touch and ultimately the normal hard working people of this country will suffer. One way or another. The UKIP extremists under the leadership of Nigel Farage have systematically chipped away, with the help of the Daily Mail and the Sun, at the general public to stir up a general manic campaign of fear and loathing against the EU. Normally politics don't matter too much to the rank and file. We go along our merry way and either have a couple of extra pounds in our pockets or take ten minutes earlier in the hospital queue... This crock of shit is going to reverberate for decades. As stated earlier, for Rees Mogg to come out with a statement tonight... "She's not my Prime Minister she's the Queen's" Absolute chaos. But the Daily Mail and the Sun don’t get £40billion per annum from the EU like the BBC does, have you ever seen a pro Leave report on our ( Nationally funded license paying ) so called unbiased media outlet? Every time Nigel Farage is on there, which pre-Referendum was about once every five minutes. Mind you, less so since he disappeared up his own arsehole after the referendum. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 13, 2019 23:52:41 GMT
That's why politics and referendum don't mix. As per my posts two and half years ago. It's a box that's been opened that cannot be closed. We have sliced open a division of political parties, families, business and society that will take years to heal. The status quo has been kicked into touch and ultimately the normal hard working people of this country will suffer. One way or another. The UKIP extremists under the leadership of Nigel Farage have systematically chipped away, with the help of the Daily Mail and the Sun, at the general public to stir up a general manic campaign of fear and loathing against the EU. Normally politics don't matter too much to the rank and file. We go along our merry way and either have a couple of extra pounds in our pockets or take ten minutes earlier in the hospital queue... This crock of shit is going to reverberate for decades. As stated earlier, for Rees Mogg to come out with a statement tonight... "She's not my Prime Minister she's the Queen's" Absolute chaos. But the Daily Mail and the Sun don’t get £40billion per annum from the EU like the BBC does, have you ever seen a pro Leave report on our ( Nationally funded license paying ) so called unbiased media outlet? Haha Sorry.. forgot the Daily Mail was the supporter and flag bearer of the general public. So what you are basically saying is that the BBC is for the establishment and the Daily Mail for the people.? |
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Post by oatcakesteve on Mar 13, 2019 23:58:02 GMT
Why is it mind boggling? We've all seen what everyone is about for the last couple of years. Our government and the EU representatives. Both are taking the piss. Because there is nothing to suggest the result would be radically different. I suspect the turnout would be much lower mind. I respectfully disagree. After all this time, I think the vote would be much wider in favour of leave. It shouldn't come to that anyway. If it does, we have lost democracy. |
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Post by pearo on Mar 14, 2019 0:00:44 GMT
But the Daily Mail and the Sun don’t get £40billion per annum from the EU like the BBC does, have you ever seen a pro Leave report on our ( Nationally funded license paying ) so called unbiased media outlet? Every time Nigel Farage is on there, which pre-Referendum was about once every five minutes. Mind you, less so since he disappeared up his own arsehole after the referendum. That’s because the BBC, Sky News and many other media outlets are refusing to give Mr. Farage any air time. They know that the underlying state of the nation is to Leave, and the mass media along side the political establishment will try to pervert the electorate’s mandate at any cost. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 14, 2019 0:03:14 GMT
Every time Nigel Farage is on there, which pre-Referendum was about once every five minutes. Mind you, less so since he disappeared up his own arsehole after the referendum. That’s because the BBC, Sky News and many other media outlets are refusing to give Mr. Farage any air time. They know that the underlying state of the nation is to Leave, and the mass media along side the political establishment will try to pervert the electorate’s mandate at any cost. Him pissing off to the US immediately after the referendum to do a stint on Fox News had nothing to do with it I guess? |
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Post by oatcakesteve on Mar 14, 2019 0:09:13 GMT
That’s because the BBC, Sky News and many other media outlets are refusing to give Mr. Farage any air time. They know that the underlying state of the nation is to Leave, and the mass media along side the political establishment will try to pervert the electorate’s mandate at any cost. Him pissing off to the US immediately after the referendum to do a stint on Fox News had nothing to do with it I guess? Not really. The BBC are as biased as you can get. If it doesn't fit their agenda, they aren't interested. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 14, 2019 0:11:21 GMT
Looks like we could be heading for a third vote on May's WA, presumably hoping that today's votes will make her "my deal or no Brexit" will be more persuasive t the Brexit wing of the Conservative party.
Although that would be logical, I'm fairly sure I read a quote from someone from the ERG that said there's no chance of them voting for the deal should there be another vote.
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Post by pearo on Mar 14, 2019 0:11:34 GMT
But the Daily Mail and the Sun don’t get £4 billion per annum from the EU like the BBC does, have you ever seen a pro Leave report on our ( Nationally funded license paying ) so called unbiased media outlet? Haha Sorry.. forgot the Daily Mail was the supporter and flag bearer of the general public. So what you are basically saying is that the BBC is for the establishment and the Daily Mail for the people.? What I am saying is that the BBC gets £4 billion a year from the EU, thus it makes it difficullt for our supposedly license funded corporation to be unbiased in it’s reporting. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 14, 2019 0:12:58 GMT
Him pissing off to the US immediately after the referendum to do a stint on Fox News had nothing to do with it I guess? Not really. The BBC are as biased as you can get. If it doesn't fit their agenda, they aren't interested. That'll be why they gave him so much airtime before the referendum. |
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Post by oatcakesteve on Mar 14, 2019 0:19:28 GMT
Haha Sorry.. forgot the Daily Mail was the supporter and flag bearer of the general public. So what you are basically saying is that the BBC is for the establishment and the Daily Mail for the people.? What I am saying is that the BBC gets £40 billion a year from the EU, thus it makes it difficullt for our supposedly license funded corporation to be unbiased in it’s reporting. Everyone knows that the BBC is corrupt, always has been. Looking at Jimmy Savile ffs. Needs disbanding and fucking off. Absolutely no loss to anyone but those who support corruption and lies. |
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Post by oatcakesteve on Mar 14, 2019 0:20:27 GMT
Not really. The BBC are as biased as you can get. If it doesn't fit their agenda, they aren't interested. That'll be why they gave him so much airtime before the referendum. They didn't expect the outcome. Arrogance as usual. |
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Post by pearo on Mar 14, 2019 0:22:19 GMT
Not really. The BBC are as biased as you can get. If it doesn't fit their agenda, they aren't interested. That'll be why they gave him so much airtime before the referendum. That’s because the establishment wanted to belittle him in the knowledge that Remain would win the referendum. Once the result was confirmed, Project Fear began, this included trying to discredit Mr. Farage, Mr. Johnson and the bus. Ultimately the will of the nation will prevail, we will never take the Euro as our currency, and people lke Dominic Grieve and Anna Sourby will be exiled to the political wilderness |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 0:37:09 GMT
I will never forget an interview with Cameron just a day or two after the referendum. He was asked why, in his opinion, he lost the vote. He replied that shortly before the vote "rumours" went round that the EU were going to form their own army. No doubts at all that Germany would be leading that army. Low and behold! Within a few weeks, news came out that this was exactly what was going to happen. It all seems to have gone a bit quiet over the last eighteen months or so.
Germany wanting to be the "super power" over Europe? Is that so unbelievable?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2019 0:53:46 GMT
Looks like we could be heading for a third vote on May's WA, presumably hoping that today's votes will make her "my deal or no Brexit" will be more persuasive t the Brexit wing of the Conservative party. Although that would be logical, I'm fairly sure I read a quote from someone from the ERG that said there's no chance of them voting for the deal should there be another vote. Have I got this wrong...I thought they didn’t have the numbers to pass anything without the DUP voting with them? If so there’s probably more chance of James McClean getting a poppy tattooed on his face and offering to sing the national anthem at the royal variety show than the DUP voting for that deal. I hope the Speaker disallows it being motioned again. I know it’s been mentioned and he probably can’t stop it as it’s a chance in circumstances but it’s been voted down twice and for very good reason. Whether you’re leave or remain it’s a total bag of shite. She’s literally a mad woman. She’s ran down the clock and has now holding a gun to people’s heads. |
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Post by Frogger Theft Auto on Mar 14, 2019 6:06:53 GMT
Haha Sorry.. forgot the Daily Mail was the supporter and flag bearer of the general public. So what you are basically saying is that the BBC is for the establishment and the Daily Mail for the people.? What I am saying is that the BBC gets £40 billion a year from the EU, thus it makes it difficullt for our supposedly license funded corporation to be unbiased in it’s reporting. Pearo mate, wherever you’re getting the idea that the BBC gets £40bn a year from the EU and that every member of the EU has to adopt the Euro by 2022 is melting your mind with fucking nonsense. |
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Post by lordb on Mar 14, 2019 6:56:49 GMT
Haha Sorry.. forgot the Daily Mail was the supporter and flag bearer of the general public. So what you are basically saying is that the BBC is for the establishment and the Daily Mail for the people.? What I am saying is that the BBC gets £40 billion a year from the EU, thus it makes it difficullt for our supposedly license funded corporation to be unbiased in it’s reporting. £40 billion? Please provide evidence for this. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 14, 2019 7:03:01 GMT
Yeah, a failure to deliver a satisfactory Brexit has happened - fact. Put a different way - people are now significantly better informed than they were prior to the Referendum. We certainly are. We now know what a self serving bunch of morons an imbeciles that make up the E.U. Commission, or whatever they call themselves, are. If I could vote twice to leave in any trumped up 2nd referendum then I would. Here’s a bit of advice beefy, if a 2nd referendum takes place let them know that you reall are massively opposed to leaving the E.U. by placing a big cross in the Leave box. That’ll tell 'em. 😉 |
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Post by felonious on Mar 14, 2019 7:09:44 GMT
Haha Sorry.. forgot the Daily Mail was the supporter and flag bearer of the general public. So what you are basically saying is that the BBC is for the establishment and the Daily Mail for the people.? What I am saying is that the BBC gets £40 billion a year from the EU, thus it makes it difficullt for our supposedly license funded corporation to be unbiased in it’s reporting. Whilst I firmly believe that the BBC is absolutely pro EU and pro Remain and completely unrepresentative therefore of it's licence fee payers there's no way that it receives that sort of figure from the EU. The annual licence fee brings in £3.65 billion and the figure on this report suggests the EU targeted bribe  brings in about £3 million which is hidden under other grant income. The real damage before employees get to work for the BBC is done through indoctrination through education and the universities.
Does anyone know the level of bribe investment that the EU puts into the universities system*
* Of course I'm aware it's our money on the £2 for £1 basis 
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Post by felonious on Mar 14, 2019 7:14:46 GMT
Not really. The BBC are as biased as you can get. If it doesn't fit their agenda, they aren't interested. That'll be why they gave him so much airtime before the referendum. We all know even the BBC that he was the voice of scepticism of the EU over the last 20 years in a sea of bland acceptance of EU stealth by both of the major parties. He was the leader of the biggest political UK party in the European elections. He was the sole reason that the UK got a referendum because that European vote was beginning to translate into the UK election vote. A man even they couldn't ignore although they could of course give him a rougher ride than their preferred politicians. |
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 14, 2019 7:41:25 GMT
May's 3rd time lucky vote may well happen but it's hard to see anything but another defeat - particularly with Labour pretty much lining up unanimously behind supporting a delay along with a big rump of Tory Remainers. So, even if the recalcitrant DUP and ERG get on board (which would seem highly unlikely) the numbers won't be there.
So we will have a delay - the only question is how long.
The thing is we don't get to decide that on our own. I can't see the EU being supportive of a short delay, so a long delay it will be of, I guess, in the order of two years to allow time for a general election in May followed by a second referendum.
My recommendation to Brexiteers - go with it.
Welcome the second referendum - and win it again.
That's what Sun Tzu would advise (possibly!).
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brings in about £3 million which is hidden under other grant income. The real damage before employees get to work for the BBC is done through indoctrination through education and the universities. 
