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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 13, 2019 9:12:39 GMT
MPs have 3 roles
1) Represent their constituents
2) Represent their Parties
3) Represent Parliament
That's why the current situation is complicated.
A no-deal will be voted down today
An extension looks likely
A second referendum would be extremely divisive & be humiliating if we voted to Remain.
The only option imo is a very soft Brexit which would leave us worse off than we are now but get a majority in the House and avoid a second referendum.
Whichever way you look at it..it's a mess..and will probably deliver something that hardly any of us wanted.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Mar 13, 2019 9:14:21 GMT
Hardly anyone baring hardcore Remoaners want a second referendum (Even most normal Remain voters are against it - Infact 26% of Remain voters now want a 'no deal' Brexit.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2019 9:20:16 GMT
Yes. I’m not knocking the work they do but they publish recommendations not laws and it’s more along the lines of being basically safe at work, workers being allowed to organise into unions and the like without being thrown in prison and not forcing people (including children into labour). If you quoted it thinking it somehow protects any employment rights you currently have then it doesn’t. The ILO can't publish laws because it isn't a government. What governments (and the EU) does is adopt their recommendations and standards and writes them into their own laws and regulations. It's the same with many other global bodies. And you trust this government to do that? The government who completely dismissed a full UN inspection and report that recently said their policies were actively increasing poverty in this country and were completely unnecessary? |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 9:27:57 GMT
MPs have 3 roles 1) Represent their constituents 2) Represent their Parties 3) Represent Parliament That's why the current situation is complicated. A no-deal will be voted down today An extension looks likely A second referendum would be extremely divisive & be humiliating if we voted to Remain. The only option imo is a very soft Brexit which would leave us worse off than we are now but get a majority in the House and avoid a second referendum. Whichever way you look at it..it's a mess..and will probably deliver something that hardly any of us wanted. They cant vote down a no deal brexit, they can vote saying they dont like it but that has as much legal force as me voting on which of the Minogue sisters I would shag first. An extension tied into being told to vote again bring it on I have every confidence the british public will say bollocks to the EU again in even greater numbers. Ps It's Danni |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 13, 2019 9:29:56 GMT
MPs have 3 roles 1) Represent their constituents 2) Represent their Parties 3) Represent Parliament That's why the current situation is complicated. A no-deal will be voted down today An extension looks likely A second referendum would be extremely divisive & be humiliating if we voted to Remain. The only option imo is a very soft Brexit which would leave us worse off than we are now but get a majority in the House and avoid a second referendum. Whichever way you look at it..it's a mess..and will probably deliver something that hardly any of us wanted. They cant vote down a no deal brexit, they can vote saying they dont like it but that has as much legal force as me voting on which of the Minogue sisters I would shag first. An extension tied into being told to vote again bring it on I have every confidence the british public will say bollocks to the EU again in even greater numbers. Ps It's Danni I'd do either (less fussy as you get older) 😉 |
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Post by pearo on Mar 13, 2019 9:40:29 GMT
My Brother in Law works for Mori, in the polls that they have done in the last 3 months the Leave vote has risen from 54% to 71% but they are not being allowed to make these results public until an extension has been put in place.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2019 9:52:44 GMT
MPs have 3 roles 1) Represent their constituents 2) Represent their Parties 3) Represent Parliament That's why the current situation is complicated. A no-deal will be voted down today An extension looks likely A second referendum would be extremely divisive & be humiliating if we voted to Remain. The only option imo is a very soft Brexit which would leave us worse off than we are now but get a majority in the House and avoid a second referendum. Whichever way you look at it..it's a mess..and will probably deliver something that hardly any of us wanted. They cant vote down a no deal brexit, they can vote saying they dont like it but that has as much legal force as me voting on which of the Minogue sisters I would shag first. An extension tied into being told to vote again bring it on I have every confidence the british public will say bollocks to the EU again in even greater numbers. Ps It's Danni I believe that the Withdrawal agreement could be delayed by statutory instrument though. In my opinion there must be a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not being told because time is so tight( eg has Barnier already got approval for an extension from the 27?). Could BREXIT be delayed from aUK legislative point of view BEFORE a delay is approved by the EU?....a sort of shot in the dark from the Govt. anticipating ( rightly or wrongly) an agreement to extend from the EU..... either way the EU could not lose... either the UK government would appear to be completely farcical and ridiculed ( if an extension was not agreed) OR they would have an extension.Or am I missing something? ( Edit... actually what I've just posted is largely flawed.,..If the UK Parliament " decides" by some means to delay/ extend Brext that won't ACTUALLY happen in practice until the request to delay is actually made to the EU AND approved) |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 10:01:02 GMT
They cant vote down a no deal brexit, they can vote saying they dont like it but that has as much legal force as me voting on which of the Minogue sisters I would shag first. An extension tied into being told to vote again bring it on I have every confidence the british public will say bollocks to the EU again in even greater numbers. Ps It's Danni I'd do either (less fussy as you get older) 😉 Nahh kylie would be too clingy and want to get married, Danni first makes the getting married a no deal  |
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Post by salopstick on Mar 13, 2019 10:03:14 GMT
Find it quite amusing that the Brexiteers are desperately trying to blame the opposition. Really truly is desperate tactics chaps and lasses. Want to see where your batrayal is? The Tories stood on a manifesto saying no deal is better than a bad deal. They've already voted against a bad deal and if any of them vote against no deal, there's your final betrayal. No it’s not the opposition it’s the whole of parliament The opposition have been quite vocal in remaining and not kept in check by their leader All of parliament is culpable. I’m pissed off with the government but considering quite a lot of labour constituents voted leave the the response from their party has been equally disgraceful |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 10:05:24 GMT
They cant vote down a no deal brexit, they can vote saying they dont like it but that has as much legal force as me voting on which of the Minogue sisters I would shag first. An extension tied into being told to vote again bring it on I have every confidence the british public will say bollocks to the EU again in even greater numbers. Ps It's Danni I believe that the Withdrawal agreement could be delayed by statutory instrument though. In my opinion there must be a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not being told because time is so tight( eg has Barnier already got approval for an extension from the 27?). Could BREXIT be delayed from aUK legislative point of view BEFORE a delay is approved by the EU?....a sort of shot in the dark from the Govt. anticipating ( rightly or wrongly) an agreement to extend from the EU..... either way the EU could not lose... either the UK government would appear to be completely farcical and ridiculed ( if an extension was not agreed) OR they would have an extension.Or am I missing something? ( Edit... actually what I've just posted is largely flawed.,..If the UK Parliament " decides" by some means to delay/ extend Brext that won't ACTUALLY happen in practice until the request to delay is actually made to the EU AND approved) My understanding is that thanks to Gina by automatic operation of the law we leave 29 March deal or no deal. Only options are approve the deal, request an a50 extension or revoke it. Extension likely comes with EU demands to vote again thereby increasing the leave vote. Revoking A50 really would be political suicide. |
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Post by salopstick on Mar 13, 2019 10:06:40 GMT
MPs have 3 roles 1) Represent their constituents 2) Represent their Parties 3) Represent Parliament That's why the current situation is complicated. A no-deal will be voted down today An extension looks likely A second referendum would be extremely divisive & be humiliating if we voted to Remain. The only option imo is a very soft Brexit which would leave us worse off than we are now but get a majority in the House and avoid a second referendum. Whichever way you look at it..it's a mess..and will probably deliver something that hardly any of us wanted. They cant vote down a no deal brexit, they can vote saying they dont like it but that has as much legal force as me voting on which of the Minogue sisters I would shag first. An extension tied into being told to vote again bring it on I have every confidence the british public will say bollocks to the EU again in even greater numbers. Ps It's Danni You are completely wrong It’s kylie. However I’m convinced a second referendum would be a greater majority for leave. The leave campaign can concentrate on the scare tactics of remain and the anti democratic way the first result was handled There is only one way for parliament to regain the trust it’s rapidly losing. Vote no deal |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 10:17:45 GMT
Find it quite amusing that the Brexiteers are desperately trying to blame the opposition. Really truly is desperate tactics chaps and lasses. Want to see where your batrayal is? The Tories stood on a manifesto saying no deal is better than a bad deal. They've already voted against a bad deal and if any of them vote against no deal, there's your final betrayal. No it’s not the opposition it’s the whole of parliament The opposition have been quite vocal in remaining and not kept in check by their leader All of parliament is culpable. I’m pissed off with the government but considering quite a lot of labour constituents voted leave the the response from their party has been equally disgraceful Indeed the general public aren't fools there is a reason racist grandpa is tanking in the polls and its not just people waking up to the racism, terrorist supporting antics they have seen the labour party oppose pretty much everything in an attempt to get into power despite the fact the May deal is pretty much what they want with a different badge on, thats when they arent pretending they want to remain of course. |
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Post by M on Mar 13, 2019 10:31:30 GMT
Find it quite amusing that the Brexiteers are desperately trying to blame the opposition. Really truly is desperate tactics chaps and lasses. Want to see where your batrayal is? The Tories stood on a manifesto saying no deal is better than a bad deal. They've already voted against a bad deal and if any of them vote against no deal, there's your final betrayal. No it’s not the opposition it’s the whole of parliament The opposition have been quite vocal in remaining and not kept in check by their leader All of parliament is culpable. I’m pissed off with the government but considering quite a lot of labour constituents voted leave the the response from their party has been equally disgraceful Actually the majority of the house, nevermind the opposition party leadership has only been consistent that we should be leaving, but with a deal that isn't suicidal. The difference between the government and the rest of the house are their own red lines. You can try and spread the blame but the reality is if May had put a deal together to satisfy the house instead of her ERG, we wouldn't be in this mess. Her own red lines and party politics have created this mess. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2019 11:01:46 GMT
I believe that the Withdrawal agreement could be delayed by statutory instrument though. In my opinion there must be a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not being told because time is so tight( eg has Barnier already got approval for an extension from the 27?). Could BREXIT be delayed from aUK legislative point of view BEFORE a delay is approved by the EU?....a sort of shot in the dark from the Govt. anticipating ( rightly or wrongly) an agreement to extend from the EU..... either way the EU could not lose... either the UK government would appear to be completely farcical and ridiculed ( if an extension was not agreed) OR they would have an extension.Or am I missing something? ( Edit... actually what I've just posted is largely flawed.,..If the UK Parliament " decides" by some means to delay/ extend Brext that won't ACTUALLY happen in practice until the request to delay is actually made to the EU AND approved) My understanding is that thanks to Gina by automatic operation of the law we leave 29 March deal or no deal. Only options are approve the deal, request an a50 extension or revoke it. Extension likely comes with EU demands to vote again thereby increasing the leave vote. Revoking A50 really would be political suicide. I'm just wondering HOW anything could be changed in such a short time period. Just to vote against ' leaving with no deal'( or whatever the precise wording of the motion) does not in itself change anything |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 13, 2019 11:05:30 GMT
The politicians on all sides have made the most monumental arse of Brexit. May and her Government are the most culpable as they were in the lead position to make an acceptable agreement but failed utterly to achieve one. But, Labour would have been no better. Their negotiating position is just a fantasy that the EU have said they cannot accept - in the single market but not accepting freedom of movement. The DUP are, of course, in it for themselves. Same as it ever was. The Lib Dems and the SNP are the same; the Lib Dems hoping to be the voice of Remain (and pick up their votes at the next election) while the SNP hope to use the fiasco of Brexit to show how shite Westminster is (so use every opportunity to create as much chaos as possible) to agitate the mood in Scotland to be more independent minded (something they are singularly failing to do). So where are we now? It's hard to see Parliament backing No Deal Brexit, so it's an extension of some sort that we will need the EU to agree to. Most likely it will be for another 2 years because a 2-3 month delay won't achieve much in breaking the impasse which will most likely see a GE in May (which also won't change much either because the main parties have no coherent approach to Brexit) and, I'm now convinced, a second referendum probably later this year (because that is the one thing Parliament seems to be able to muster the votes for). The Brexit betrayal is becoming clearer and clearer. Equally though Partick, having given it more thought, a last minute 'alternative deal' could be agreed, outside of government, following " indicative votes" on acceptable cross party agreement....Of course time is of essence because this would have to be accepted by the EU ( my cynicism says that such a deal may have already been accepted, and includes staying in the SM and CU...so not really BREXIT) |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 11:10:15 GMT
My understanding is that thanks to Gina by automatic operation of the law we leave 29 March deal or no deal. Only options are approve the deal, request an a50 extension or revoke it. Extension likely comes with EU demands to vote again thereby increasing the leave vote. Revoking A50 really would be political suicide. I'm just wondering HOW anything could be changed in such a short time period. Just to vote against ' leaving with no deal'( or whatever the precise wording of the motion) does not in itself change anything I think the hope is the EU agrees to extend when we pull our own pants down although verhofstwat already saying he will vote against an extension in which case I will take back most of what I said about him  |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 11:13:19 GMT
No it’s not the opposition it’s the whole of parliament The opposition have been quite vocal in remaining and not kept in check by their leader All of parliament is culpable. I’m pissed off with the government but considering quite a lot of labour constituents voted leave the the response from their party has been equally disgraceful Actually the majority of the house, nevermind the opposition party leadership has only been consistent that we should be leaving, but with a deal that isn't suicidal. The difference between the government and the rest of the house are their own red lines. You can try and spread the blame but the reality is if May had put a deal together to satisfy the house instead of her ERG, we wouldn't be in this mess. Her own red lines and party politics have created this mess. As I said the May deal is pretty much what Labour want in as much as anyone can understand WTF it is Labour wants apart from Racist grandpa to be PM. |
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Post by M on Mar 13, 2019 12:40:28 GMT
Actually the majority of the house, nevermind the opposition party leadership has only been consistent that we should be leaving, but with a deal that isn't suicidal. The difference between the government and the rest of the house are their own red lines. You can try and spread the blame but the reality is if May had put a deal together to satisfy the house instead of her ERG, we wouldn't be in this mess. Her own red lines and party politics have created this mess. As I said the May deal is pretty much what Labour want in as much as anyone can understand WTF it is Labour wants apart from Racist grandpa to be PM. More deflection and conjecture with a bit of libel to boot. At least you're being consistent with those fools who started and negotiated the mess we are in. Bravo. |
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Post by hammered on Mar 13, 2019 13:05:53 GMT
Well on the one hand - thank f--k for that - MP's have finally done the right thing and put May's dreadful WA down for good.
The problem here though is the motive - Brexiters clearly because it wasn't Brexit - Remainers (most of them) because it wasn't Remain enough...
All of them (MP's) know exactly what they're doing irrespective of the bumbling incompetent narrative or the MSM trying to spin fake hyperbolic drama into what is plain to see as a complete fraud of BREXIT.
Tonight sees (IMO) the most important vote in the HOC this century... By this one vote we could achieve delivery of the referendum result, put paid to uncertainty reclaim our sovereignty and start the process of rebuilding all aspects of our society and political governance.
This won't happen of course because the cancer of self interest and UN/EU/Globalist strategy is deep in our system and we've a HOC (all sides) that having been elected on a BREXIT ticket doesn't represent it's constituents.
I'm predicting that despite no remain arguments (just project fear) that fundamentally benefit our continued involvement, they will fail us again tonight.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 13, 2019 13:18:10 GMT
Well on the one hand - thank f--k for that - MP's have finally done the right thing and put May's dreadful WA down for good. The problem here though is the motive - Brexiters clearly because it wasn't Brexit - Remainers (most of them) because it wasn't Remain enough... All of them (MP's) know exactly what they're doing irrespective of the bumbling incompetent narrative or the MSM trying to spin fake hyperbolic drama into what is plain to see as a complete fraud of BREXIT. Tonight sees (IMO) the most important vote in the HOC this century... By this one vote we could achieve delivery of the referendum result, put paid to uncertainty reclaim our sovereignty and start the process of rebuilding all aspects of our society and political governance. This won't happen of course because the cancer of self interest and UN/EU/Globalist strategy is deep in our system and we've a HOC (all sides) that having been elected on a BREXIT ticket doesn't represent it's constituents. I'm predicting that despite no remain arguments (just project fear) that fundamentally benefit our continued involvement, they will fail us again tonight. I firmly believe this is what they have been plotting since the day we voted leave, cross party collusion to scupper the wishes of the people in a democratic referendum, they have and will fail all that voted leave it's an act of betrayal nothing more nothing less, we should not take this lying down if we do democracy is dead in this country. |
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 13, 2019 13:51:10 GMT
Well on the one hand - thank f--k for that - MP's have finally done the right thing and put May's dreadful WA down for good. The problem here though is the motive - Brexiters clearly because it wasn't Brexit - Remainers (most of them) because it wasn't Remain enough... All of them (MP's) know exactly what they're doing irrespective of the bumbling incompetent narrative or the MSM trying to spin fake hyperbolic drama into what is plain to see as a complete fraud of BREXIT. Tonight sees (IMO) the most important vote in the HOC this century... By this one vote we could achieve delivery of the referendum result, put paid to uncertainty reclaim our sovereignty and start the process of rebuilding all aspects of our society and political governance. This won't happen of course because the cancer of self interest and UN/EU/Globalist strategy is deep in our system and we've a HOC (all sides) that having been elected on a BREXIT ticket doesn't represent it's constituents. I'm predicting that despite no remain arguments (just project fear) that fundamentally benefit our continued involvement, they will fail us again tonight. I firmly believe this is what they have been plotting since the day we voted leave, cross party collusion to scupper the wishes of the people in a democratic referendum, they have and will fail all that voted leave it's an act of betrayal nothing more nothing less, we should not take this lying down if we do democracy is dead in this country. You credit them with too much nouse |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 13, 2019 15:14:27 GMT
I firmly believe this is what they have been plotting since the day we voted leave, cross party collusion to scupper the wishes of the people in a democratic referendum, they have and will fail all that voted leave it's an act of betrayal nothing more nothing less, we should not take this lying down if we do democracy is dead in this country. You credit them with too much nouse What I find really ironic over this whole charade is the number of left wing loons who have fought for the very thing the establishment wanted all along, they have cried whined whinged and moaned like a drain for the best part of three years because they lost !, now they are on the brink of helping the very people they despise to have their way and keep us in EU republic  you have almost certainly helped to kill democracy in this country. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 13, 2019 15:20:10 GMT
No it’s not the opposition it’s the whole of parliament The opposition have been quite vocal in remaining and not kept in check by their leader All of parliament is culpable. I’m pissed off with the government but considering quite a lot of labour constituents voted leave the the response from their party has been equally disgraceful Indeed the general public aren't fools there is a reason racist grandpa is tanking in the polls and its not just people waking up to the racism, terrorist supporting antics they have seen the labour party oppose pretty much everything in an attempt to get into power despite the fact the May deal is pretty much what they want with a different badge on, thats when they arent pretending they want to remain of course. I wonder why the shittest Government in history who today are not whipping their own MP's in one of the biggest votes since the second world war wont call an election then. It's a real thinker isn't it |
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Post by Davef on Mar 13, 2019 15:21:38 GMT
You credit them with too much nouse What I find really ironic over this whole charade is the number of left wing loons who have fought for the very thing the establishment wanted all along, they have cried whined whinged and moaned like a drain for the best part of three years because they lost !, now they are on the brink of helping the very people they despise to have their way and keep us in EU republic you have almost certainly helped to kill democracy in this country. How is rejecting the Withdrawal Agreement keeping us in the EU? |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 15:25:27 GMT
Indeed the general public aren't fools there is a reason racist grandpa is tanking in the polls and its not just people waking up to the racism, terrorist supporting antics they have seen the labour party oppose pretty much everything in an attempt to get into power despite the fact the May deal is pretty much what they want with a different badge on, thats when they arent pretending they want to remain of course. I wonder why the shittest Government in history who today are not whipping their own MP's in one of the biggest votes since the second world war wont call an election then. It's a real thinker isn't it The fixed time parliament act for one, secondly it doesnt change the maths on brexit but all irrelevant Corbyn has lost Scotland for good so will never win a majority. |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 13, 2019 15:30:34 GMT
As I said the May deal is pretty much what Labour want in as much as anyone can understand WTF it is Labour wants apart from Racist grandpa to be PM. More deflection and conjecture with a bit of libel to boot. At least you're being consistent with those fools who started and negotiated the mess we are in. Bravo. The EHCR are starting to investigate Labour for institutional racism, only other party they have investigated is the BNP. Corbyn and his aides have been caught bang to rights interferring in the disciplinary action where he is mates with the people involved and reducing their punishments. So I am happy with calling him racist grandpa, the rest please tell me of a major difference between labour plan and actual deal offered. |
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 13, 2019 15:31:22 GMT
What I find really ironic over this whole charade is the number of left wing loons who have fought for the very thing the establishment wanted all along, they have cried whined whinged and moaned like a drain for the best part of three years because they lost !, now they are on the brink of helping the very people they despise to have their way and keep us in EU republic you have almost certainly helped to kill democracy in this country. How is rejecting the Withdrawal Agreement keeping us in the EU? I think the depth of the betrayal will be more evident after the vote this evening, that wishy washy May deal was never going to succeed, even she didn't believe it would a total sham leading to taking no deal off the table and forcing another vote (peoples vote  ), hopefully she will be forced to resign with someone who actually believes in the process taking over though I fear it is too late. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 13, 2019 15:41:12 GMT
Nice to see The Chancellor extending the wicked, murdering, policy of austerity in todays spring statement and this multi-millionaire twat is supposed to be the moderate one.
Imagine Brext in the hands of the likes of the Victorian Ghost, Francois and the like.
Doesn’t fucking bear thinking about.
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Post by Davef on Mar 13, 2019 15:43:15 GMT
How is rejecting the Withdrawal Agreement keeping us in the EU? I think the depth of the betrayal will be more evident after the vote this evening, that wishy washy May deal was never going to succeed, even she didn't believe it would a total sham leading to taking no deal off the table and forcing another vote (peoples vote ), hopefully she will be forced to resign with someone who actually believes in the process taking over though I fear it is too late. Rejecting the Withdrawal Agreement means we leave the EU on March 29th with no deal. MP's can vote all they like tonight to take no deal off the table, but there is no guarantee that the EU27 will agree to an extension of Article 50. Whatever the case, I don't think we're "on the brink" of remaining in the EU, unless the Government revokes Article 50. There may well a further referendum in the future, but it'll be a way off just yet if there is. |
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 13, 2019 15:43:22 GMT
I would welcome another so called people's vote . Although I'm not sure who the voted in the last referendum, wasn't that also the people . What will the likes of Blair , greeve , soubry do if the people vote again for brexit ? Will they then still oppose the will of the people ? Will labour support the will of the people ?
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you have almost certainly helped to kill democracy in this country.
), hopefully she will be forced to resign with someone who actually believes in the process taking over though I fear it is too late. 
