|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 15:12:55 GMT
And to think, we could've been at this point a couple of months ago if May would've accepted that the deal that brought about the biggest government defeat in history was maybe just a little bit shit. Or 2 years into a FTA with no need for a backstop if the EU hadn't insisted on a WA. |
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Mar 12, 2019 15:36:23 GMT
The backstop remains and the pound has fallen sharply in the last 15 miuntes. Just wished I had enough money to short it..I'd make a fortune by the end of the day. Great news if you voted Brexit. Another few billion wiped off the value of British Companies. Along with the Trillion pounds that has now left the City. Fantastic news for shorters. Even better news for foreign investors and countries (USA & Middle East) who want to buy up (then break up) British Companies..because the fall in the pound since 2016 has wiped out 30% off their value. A price well worth paying to take back control and get our country back. If parliament had done their duty immediately after the vote and throughout the next two years it would be different. They have helped cause this process Accept the vote negotiate leave. Not the remain tactics we have witnessed. The government have treated the whole of the transitional negotiations as damage limitation exercise rather than a positive process with clear goals , may needs to be replaced asap |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 15:43:48 GMT
And to think, we could've been at this point a couple of months ago if May would've accepted that the deal that brought about the biggest government defeat in history was maybe just a little bit shit. Or 2 years into a FTA with no need for a backstop if the EU hadn't insisted on a WA. The idea behind a withdrawal agreement is fine to me. A transition period to bridge across what is a very big change to the British political system. However, this government has fucked the whole idea up by a) taking an age to agree between themselves what our negotiating position is, b) coming back with a toss deal, and c) insisting on more than one vote on the toss deal. That's also not taking into account the time wasted by having a needless election. |
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 15:53:28 GMT
Or 2 years into a FTA with no need for a backstop if the EU hadn't insisted on a WA. The idea behind a withdrawal agreement is fine to me. A transition period to bridge across what is a very big change to the British political system. However, this government has fucked the whole idea up by a) taking an age to agree between themselves what our negotiating position is, b) coming back with a toss deal, and c) insisting on more than one vote on the toss deal. That's also not taking into account the time wasted by having a needless election. I'd go along with some of that. By turning it into a party political issue all that's happened is the SNP are trying the 'we didn't vote for it so give us Independence', labour 'we want a go at running the country and will use any subject, including Brexit, to overthrow the govt' and the Tories who are even more split than before and tried to screw Corbyn with an election that was lost on a non-Brexit issue. Who will have the balls to press the revoke A50 button? |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 12, 2019 16:00:10 GMT
The idea behind a withdrawal agreement is fine to me. A transition period to bridge across what is a very big change to the British political system. However, this government has fucked the whole idea up by a) taking an age to agree between themselves what our negotiating position is, b) coming back with a toss deal, and c) insisting on more than one vote on the toss deal. That's also not taking into account the time wasted by having a needless election. I'd go along with some of that. By turning it into a party political issue all that's happened is the SNP are trying the 'we didn't vote for it so give us Independence', labour 'we want a go at running the country and will use any subject, including Brexit, to overthrow the govt' and the Tories who are even more split than before and tried to screw Corbyn with an election that was lost on a non-Brexit issue. Who will have the balls to press the revoke A50 button? I think only a cross party non - party alliance could do that Clayton, so that no one has to take the blame....." Parliament taking control " instead of the Government? |
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 16:09:29 GMT
I'd go along with some of that. By turning it into a party political issue all that's happened is the SNP are trying the 'we didn't vote for it so give us Independence', labour 'we want a go at running the country and will use any subject, including Brexit, to overthrow the govt' and the Tories who are even more split than before and tried to screw Corbyn with an election that was lost on a non-Brexit issue. Who will have the balls to press the revoke A50 button? I think only a cross party non - party alliance could do that Clayton, do that no one has to take the blame....." Parliament taking control " instead of the Government? And therein lies the problem BJR. MP's, by and large, are part of the 'look at me brigade' imo. They crave power, the more power they get the more power they crave. Going back to the Yes Prime/Minister quotes up thread, Hacker used to measure a successful day by the amount of column inches in the next days broadsheets. Many a true word spoken in jest. Give it to Parliament and they'll be like lions around a dead zebra. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 16:40:11 GMT
Or 2 years into a FTA with no need for a backstop if the EU hadn't insisted on a WA. The idea behind a withdrawal agreement is fine to me. A transition period to bridge across what is a very big change to the British political system. However, this government has fucked the whole idea up by a) taking an age to agree between themselves what our negotiating position is, b) coming back with a toss deal, and c) insisting on more than one vote on the toss deal. That's also not taking into account the time wasted by having a needless election. It isn't a withdrawal deal is it though really...we effectively stay in parts of it forever whilst continuing to pay £36 billion a year because the backstop will never get resolved unless you build a wall through Ireland or get Ireland to leave as well... So we're not really leaving with this deal and its also probably worse than staying in as we lose more than we really gain. And it's taken 2 years to achieve this deal to leave that isn't really a deal and nor are we really leaving. It's really beyond incompetency. |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 16:49:48 GMT
The idea behind a withdrawal agreement is fine to me. A transition period to bridge across what is a very big change to the British political system. However, this government has fucked the whole idea up by a) taking an age to agree between themselves what our negotiating position is, b) coming back with a toss deal, and c) insisting on more than one vote on the toss deal. That's also not taking into account the time wasted by having a needless election. It isn't a withdrawal deal is it though really...we effectively stay in parts of it forever whilst continuing to pay £36 billion a year because the backstop will never get resolved unless you build a wall through Ireland or get Ireland to leave as well... So we're not really leaving with this deal and its also probably worse than staying in as we lose more than we really gain. And it's taken 2 years to achieve this deal to leave that isn't really a deal and nor are we really leaving. It's really beyond incompetency. It is a withdrawal deal, in the sense that if it's voted through then we leave and withdraw from the EU at the end of this month (however, it aint getting voted through). However, we can certainly agree on it being incompetent on a scale I didn't think existed. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 17:27:40 GMT
It isn't a withdrawal deal is it though really...we effectively stay in parts of it forever whilst continuing to pay £36 billion a year because the backstop will never get resolved unless you build a wall through Ireland or get Ireland to leave as well... So we're not really leaving with this deal and its also probably worse than staying in as we lose more than we really gain. And it's taken 2 years to achieve this deal to leave that isn't really a deal and nor are we really leaving. It's really beyond incompetency. It is a withdrawal deal, in the sense that if it's voted through then we leave and withdraw from the EU at the end of this month (however, it aint getting voted through). However, we can certainly agree on it being incompetent on a scale I didn't think existed. I agree it won't get voted through but that's because don't really leave in any real sense of the word - we are still bound by EU laws for two years (except for the customs union which is forever until the Irish border issue is solved and means we can't really negotiate any other trade deals if we want to) and we still have to pay them (£36billion for 2 years then another agreed TBD indefinitely (or until this backstop is agreed which I don't see how it will ever be because of Ireland)). I read the withdrawal agreement itself back in the December...its really all complete and utter bollocks and its not withdrawing at all. They just don't really seem to tell you how bollocks it is on TV. |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 17:30:16 GMT
This is quite an interesting take, of how perhaps things could've been done:
Former Conservative minister Guto Bebb says he will be voting against Mrs May's deal - just like he did in January at the last vote. But he says that for him, unlike some others who oppose the deal, the backstop is not the main reason.
"When we talk about the backstop, that's not my main concern," he said. "My main concern has always been the fact that we're going into what I would describe as a 'blind Brexit'."
He blames former Brexit secretary David Davis, who he claims "messed up the negotiations and actually saw the future relationship and the divorce deal separated".
"What we have is a divorce agreement which has been agreed by the prime minister with the European Union but there's very little detail about the future relationship," he says.
"If you said to the general public, that [if] the prime minister's deal passes and then we have another 21 months of arguments, they'd be dismayed. But that's actually the reality."
|
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Mar 12, 2019 17:54:55 GMT
This is quite an interesting take, of how perhaps things could've been done: Former Conservative minister Guto Bebb says he will be voting against Mrs May's deal - just like he did in January at the last vote. But he says that for him, unlike some others who oppose the deal, the backstop is not the main reason. "When we talk about the backstop, that's not my main concern," he said. "My main concern has always been the fact that we're going into what I would describe as a 'blind Brexit'." He blames former Brexit secretary David Davis, who he claims "messed up the negotiations and actually saw the future relationship and the divorce deal separated". "What we have is a divorce agreement which has been agreed by the prime minister with the European Union but there's very little detail about the future relationship," he says. "If you said to the general public, that [if] the prime minister's deal passes and then we have another 21 months of arguments, they'd be dismayed. But that's actually the reality." In all fairness to Davis the commission refused to enter into any discussion about the future relationship until we had left the EU |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 17:57:57 GMT
This is quite an interesting take, of how perhaps things could've been done: Former Conservative minister Guto Bebb says he will be voting against Mrs May's deal - just like he did in January at the last vote. But he says that for him, unlike some others who oppose the deal, the backstop is not the main reason. "When we talk about the backstop, that's not my main concern," he said. "My main concern has always been the fact that we're going into what I would describe as a 'blind Brexit'." He blames former Brexit secretary David Davis, who he claims "messed up the negotiations and actually saw the future relationship and the divorce deal separated". "What we have is a divorce agreement which has been agreed by the prime minister with the European Union but there's very little detail about the future relationship," he says. "If you said to the general public, that [if] the prime minister's deal passes and then we have another 21 months of arguments, they'd be dismayed. But that's actually the reality." In all fairness to Davis the commission refused to enter into any discussion about the future relationship until we had left the EU Yep. But I wonder if in hindsight he would admit that the government should have a) made quicker progress on the WA or b) negotiated harder with the EU to avoid that being the plan. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 18:35:12 GMT
Thank fuck Cheltenham is about to start. Stormy Ireland runs later, I think I will back(stop) that. Despite Brexit. Stormy Ireland finished second, but I demand a re-run!  |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 18:36:47 GMT
The backstop remains and the pound has fallen sharply in the last 15 miuntes. Just wished I had enough money to short it..I'd make a fortune by the end of the day. Great news if you voted Brexit. Another few billion buywiped off the value of British Companies. Along with the Trillion pounds that has now left the City. Fantastic news for shorters. Even better news for foreign investors and countries (USA & Middle East) who want to buy up (then break up) British Companies..because the fall in the pound since 2016 has wiped out 30% off their value. A price well worth paying to take back control and get our country back. If parliament had done their duty immediately after the vote and throughout the next two years it would be different. They have helped cause this process Accept the vote negotiate leave. Not the remain tactics we have witnessed. Exactly. It's really not complicated. |
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Mar 12, 2019 19:23:22 GMT
Mays deal ~ rejected
Anything other than leave no deal is a betrayal of the referendum
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 19:29:43 GMT
Didn't see this coming...
|
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Mar 12, 2019 19:30:45 GMT
Disgraceful bitch
Disgraceful parliament.
No deal wether you agree with that or not is the only option left to enact the result of the referendum
Dithering parliament has forced that choice between them cross party
Vote against no deal and any form of extension that leads to a second referendum is a gross betrayal and many MPs will discover the consequences of such a betrayal at a General Election
Ask nick clegg what he thinks about that
|
|
|
|
Post by mattador78 on Mar 12, 2019 19:35:49 GMT
Ffs 🤦♂️
I wanted to leave but voted remain due to the uncertainty it would cause due to no definitive exit plan in place. Large portions of parliament are potentially voting for their political careers and personal gains not their best interests for the average uk citizens.
|
|
|
|
Post by henry on Mar 12, 2019 19:38:18 GMT
Face it, we are not leaving.
it's a fucking disgrace whats unfolding
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 12, 2019 19:44:08 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 12, 2019 19:47:04 GMT
My prediction edges closer.
We won’t leave, the government won’t allow it.
The word “democracy” means absolutely fuck all in this country.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 19:48:52 GMT
All these bloody MP's keep blathering on about the Government showing "respect to the House". Not once has there been any thought or comment about Parliament in general
"showing respect to the country or electorate".
Complete and utter bunch of shysters !
They fully deserve to be shown what the electorate think at the next general election.
|
|
|
|
Post by chamberlain on Mar 12, 2019 19:48:59 GMT
My prediction edges closer. We won’t leave, the government won’t allow it. The word “democracy” means absolutely fuck all in this country. My feelings exactly ,what a load of self serving pigs we have as our mps |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 19:51:19 GMT
Face it, we are not leaving. it's a fucking disgrace whats unfolding My mates and I who worked in residential care positively bounced into work on the day the result was announced. Within an hour, the media had pissed on our chips. They, and parliament, have been pissing ever since. I hope they pay for this. |
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 12, 2019 19:55:17 GMT
My prediction edges closer. We won’t leave, the government won’t allow it. The word “democracy” means absolutely fuck all in this country. My feelings exactly ,what a load of self serving pigs we have as our mps If this was the other way round, and remain won by a slim margin, the arguments from the leave side wouldn’t even be listened to, never mind cause this absolute tidal wave of shit. The money men and politicians weren’t banking on the rest of the country, which lies in neglect whilst they scoff wine and scallops in the cafe at Harrods, actually telling the fuckers we’re sick of being pushed around by some nonces who have no affiliation with this country other than some trade deal on a piece of paper. It’ll be masked as a “saviour for British industry” and “safeguarding our future” when really it’s exactly what the politicians and upper class arseholes want. It’s no coincidence that the majority of leave votes came from cities that used to have an industry, that has systematically been ripped apart over the past 40 years and replaced with cheap foreign labour on zero hour contracts, this was the one opportunity a once proud nation had at clawing some of its identity back, and its been disregarded like a crusty jizzrag. It’s a complete shithole this country it really is, ran by utter tosspots who are so out of touch with reality they should be in a padded cell dribbling. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 19:57:22 GMT
I would suggest storming parliament, but the fuckers would suddenly find sufficient police numbers to quell any uprising.
I haven't been this angry since the Miners Strike.
|
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 19:59:12 GMT
My feelings exactly ,what a load of self serving pigs we have as our mps If this was the other way round, and remain won by a slim margin, the arguments from the leave side wouldn’t even be listened to, never mind cause this absolute tidal wave of shit. The money men and politicians weren’t banking on the rest of the country, which lies in neglect whilst they scoff wine and scallops in the cafe at Harrods, actually telling the fuckers we’re sick of being pushed around by some nonces who have no affiliation with this country other than some trade deal on a piece of paper. It’ll be masked as a “saviour for British industry” and “safeguarding our future” when really it’s exactly what the politicians and upper class arseholes want. It’s no coincidence that the majority of leave votes came from cities that used to have an industry, that has systematically been ripped apart over the past 40 years and replaced with cheap foreign labour on zero hour contracts, this was the one opportunity a once proud nation had at clawing some of its identity back, and its been disregarded like a crusty jizzrag. It’s a complete shithole this country it really is, ran by utter tosspots who are so out of touch with reality they should be in a padded cell dribbling. Great fucking post. Well said. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 20:03:20 GMT
It is quite clear now, that we no longer live in a democracy. I hope the biggest shit storm ever rocks this country.
|
|
|
|
Post by butlerstbob on Mar 12, 2019 20:04:03 GMT
My feelings exactly ,what a load of self serving pigs we have as our mps If this was the other way round, and remain won by a slim margin, the arguments from the leave side wouldn’t even be listened to, never mind cause this absolute tidal wave of shit. The money men and politicians weren’t banking on the rest of the country, which lies in neglect whilst they scoff wine and scallops in the cafe at Harrods, actually telling the fuckers we’re sick of being pushed around by some nonces who have no affiliation with this country other than some trade deal on a piece of paper. It’ll be masked as a “saviour for British industry” and “safeguarding our future” when really it’s exactly what the politicians and upper class arseholes want. It’s no coincidence that the majority of leave votes came from cities that used to have an industry, that has systematically been ripped apart over the past 40 years and replaced with cheap foreign labour on zero hour contracts, this was the one opportunity a once proud nation had at clawing some of its identity back, and its been disregarded like a crusty jizzrag. It’s a complete shithole this country it really is, ran by utter tosspots who are so out of touch with reality they should be in a padded cell dribbling.  |
|
|
|
Post by chamberlain on Mar 12, 2019 20:04:10 GMT
I would suggest storming parliament, but the fuckers would suddenly find sufficient police numbers to quell any uprising. I haven't been this angry since the Miners Strike. Same here mate and I'm sure a hell alot of others too |
|
