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Post by LL Cool Dave on Mar 12, 2019 10:20:25 GMT
That's my understanding of what 'leave' actually means. If any EU mechanism means that 'they' can overrule or act with supremacy over 'our' mechanisms then we aren't truly independent. If we 'raise a dispute' over this new legally clarified backstop who will arbitrate? It would obviously go without saying that any products or services going in either direction would need to meet each others rules. I just think that trading (which is NOT what the referendum was about) can be and should be done easily without all the other political attachments the EU insist on whilst a member. As stated many times on here, ‘Leave’ voters knew exactly what ‘Leave’ meant. People like Oggy would have us believe we didn’t understand the issues whereas I would suggest that we understood the issues far better than, er, people like Oggy. Few, if any, Leave voters cast their vote without giving the matter a great deal of thought. ‘Remain’ was the easy, status quo vote. It required little thought or investigation (which is why they still don’t understand the EU direction of travel). No 'Leave' vote was cast lightly and we knew (I’d be bold enough to say we ALL knew) that the EU institution INCLUDES the customs union and the single market. We voted to leave the lot and we know we did. Well you'd be wrong. You simply can't speak for everyone who voted leave. My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed, there was plenty of people whose vote was cast lightly and peoople I know voted leave purely on the bus claim. To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 10:32:05 GMT
Regardless of how much he has or hasn't made post-Brexit, it would've been nice to Rees-Mogg set up his new funds in the UK to show a bit of confidence in the country. Even if it did cost a bit more initially, now is surely the time that some of the leading politicians who have profitable business ventures should take the hit and stay in the UK. Rees-Mogg particularly would be able to gain from the huge post-Brexit benefits he talks of which will eventually come once we've left. Free knowledge for you. Cheers for that. As I said in the original message, I'm not that bothered how much he has or hasn't earned since Brexit. The issue for me was about the funds being set up in Ireland. There's one tweet about this that claims tax will be paid into the UK coffers although not much explanation about how he knows this (I would assume the tax set-up of the company is fairly closely guarded): I've yet to see anything from Rees-Mogg to confirm whether these funds based in Ireland will see the UK taking in less tax, although admittedly I don't hang on his every word. So lets wait and if he confirms anything. |
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Post by yeokel on Mar 12, 2019 10:42:07 GMT
As stated many times on here, ‘Leave’ voters knew exactly what ‘Leave’ meant. People like Oggy would have us believe we didn’t understand the issues whereas I would suggest that we understood the issues far better than, er, people like Oggy. Few, if any, Leave voters cast their vote without giving the matter a great deal of thought. ‘Remain’ was the easy, status quo vote. It required little thought or investigation (which is why they still don’t understand the EU direction of travel). No 'Leave' vote was cast lightly and we knew (I’d be bold enough to say we ALL knew) that the EU institution INCLUDES the customs union and the single market. We voted to leave the lot and we know we did. Well you'd be wrong. You simply can't speak for everyone who voted leave. My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed, there was plenty of people whose vote was cast lightly and peoople I know voted leave purely on the bus claim. To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks. “How long is the long term?” Who knows? I would say, though, that it stretches beyond the time the EU collapses into civil war, financial ruin and its eventual bloody demise. “My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed” Have you actually asked your parents if they consider the EU to include the single market and customs union? “To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks” I think you are underestimating people. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 10:47:32 GMT
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox will make a Commons statement on his legal opinion on the Brexit deal at about 12:30 GMT.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 12, 2019 10:49:04 GMT
As stated many times on here, ‘Leave’ voters knew exactly what ‘Leave’ meant. People like Oggy would have us believe we didn’t understand the issues whereas I would suggest that we understood the issues far better than, er, people like Oggy. Few, if any, Leave voters cast their vote without giving the matter a great deal of thought. ‘Remain’ was the easy, status quo vote. It required little thought or investigation (which is why they still don’t understand the EU direction of travel). No 'Leave' vote was cast lightly and we knew (I’d be bold enough to say we ALL knew) that the EU institution INCLUDES the customs union and the single market. We voted to leave the lot and we know we did. Well you'd be wrong. You simply can't speak for everyone who voted leave. My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed, there was plenty of people whose vote was cast lightly and peoople I know voted leave purely on the bus claim. To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks. What about the people who voted remain due to project fear Or if you wish to go back further what about the people who voted for Blair did they realise they were voting for a war criminal A vote is a vote a democrat excepts the vote |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 11:04:05 GMT
Well you'd be wrong. You simply can't speak for everyone who voted leave. My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed, there was plenty of people whose vote was cast lightly and peoople I know voted leave purely on the bus claim. To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks. What about the people who voted remain due to project fear Or if you wish to go back further what about the people who voted for Blair did they realise they were voting for a war criminal A vote is a vote a democrat accepts the vote Apparently unless they lose ! |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 11:16:05 GMT
19. However, the legal risk remains unchanged that if through no such demonstrable failure of either
party, but simply because of intractable differences, that situation does arise, the United Kingdom
would have, at least while the fundamental circumstances remained the same, no internationally
lawful means of exiting the Protocol’s arrangements, save by agreement.
Final para of Cox's legal opinion.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 11:32:16 GMT
19. However, the legal risk remains unchanged that if through no such demonstrable failure of either
party, but simply because of intractable differences, that situation does arise, the United Kingdom
would have, at least while the fundamental circumstances remained the same, no internationally
lawful means of exiting the Protocol’s arrangements, save by agreement.Final para of Cox's legal opinion. "the legal risk remains unchanged". And thus May's WA deal was confined to the dustbin. |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 12, 2019 11:37:09 GMT
The backstop remains and the pound has fallen sharply in the last 15 miuntes.
Just wished I had enough money to short it..I'd make a fortune by the end of the day.
Great news if you voted Brexit.
Another few billion wiped off the value of British Companies.
Along with the Trillion pounds that has now left the City.
Fantastic news for shorters.
Even better news for foreign investors and countries (USA & Middle East) who want to buy up (then break up) British Companies..because the fall in the pound since 2016 has wiped out 30% off their value.
A price well worth paying to take back control and get our country back.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 11:39:34 GMT
Well you'd be wrong. You simply can't speak for everyone who voted leave. My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed, there was plenty of people whose vote was cast lightly and peoople I know voted leave purely on the bus claim. To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks. “How long is the long term?” Who knows? I would say, though, that it stretches beyond the time the EU collapses into civil war, financial ruin and its eventual bloody demise. “My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed” Have you actually asked your parents if they consider the EU to include the single market and customs union? “To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks” I think you are underestimating people. I know a Remainer who voted to Remain simply because he didn't like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 11:40:02 GMT
19. However, the legal risk remains unchanged that if through no such demonstrable failure of either
party, but simply because of intractable differences, that situation does arise, the United Kingdom
would have, at least while the fundamental circumstances remained the same, no internationally
lawful means of exiting the Protocol’s arrangements, save by agreement.Final para of Cox's legal opinion. "the legal risk remains unchanged". And thus May's WA deal was confined to the dustbin. Correct. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 12, 2019 11:56:20 GMT
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox will make a Commons statement on his legal opinion on the Brexit deal at about 12:30 GMT. Geoff the Spiv has already killed this 'deal' dead. A normal Prime Minister in normal times would resign. Sadly this one is a blue arsed limpit surrounded by jellyfish. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 12, 2019 12:03:47 GMT
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox will make a Commons statement on his legal opinion on the Brexit deal at about 12:30 GMT. Geoff the Spiv has already killed this 'deal' dead. A normal Prime Minister in normal times would resign. Sadly this one is a blue arsed limpit surrounded by jellyfish. Makes you glad you didn't vote for any of these spineless chancers doesn't it? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 12:04:26 GMT
The fit up continues.
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 12, 2019 12:08:02 GMT
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Post by Pedropotter on Mar 12, 2019 12:08:12 GMT
“How long is the long term?” Who knows? I would say, though, that it stretches beyond the time the EU collapses into civil war, financial ruin and its eventual bloody demise. “My folks voted leave without really knowing what it entailed” Have you actually asked your parents if they consider the EU to include the single market and customs union? “To say everyone was as clued up as you think you are is just bollocks” I think you are underestimating people. I know a Remainer who voted to Remain simply because he didn't like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. And I know a leaver that voted leave because he doesn't like the French...... |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 12:13:27 GMT
I know a Remainer who voted to Remain simply because he didn't like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. And I know a leaver that voted leave because he doesn't like the French...... Yes, both sides have people who didn't look into the issues in a deep way. Its wrong to say otherwise. |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 12, 2019 12:18:11 GMT
Cheers for that. As I said in the original message, I'm not that bothered how much he has or hasn't earned since Brexit. The issue for me was about the funds being set up in Ireland. There's one tweet about this that claims tax will be paid into the UK coffers although not much explanation about how he knows this (I would assume the tax set-up of the company is fairly closely guarded): I've yet to see anything from Rees-Mogg to confirm whether these funds based in Ireland will see the UK taking in less tax, although admittedly I don't hang on his every word. So lets wait and if he confirms anything. Why does say M&S have stores in Dublin hint it's for customers based or who live in Eire. The company accounts tell you where their head office is and where they pay tax, all setting up a fund in dublin is like setting up a branch or a store like M&S, they pay local tax then they pay tax at company / group level where they are domiciled for tax. These funds as well only make fees for the company itself the profits or losses go to the individual or company investing. |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 12, 2019 12:18:59 GMT
I know a Remainer who voted to Remain simply because he didn't like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. And I know a leaver that voted leave because he doesn't like the French...... A Yes Minister fan obviously  |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 12, 2019 12:21:22 GMT
Until a politician gives the opt out away. We only have everything until a politician decides to change it - be it human rights, the opt-out from the Euro, or a proposed backstop to the WA agreement. What's your point? You just made it for me leave the EU and there is no one to give it too. Brown gave away so much without even a vote in parliament. |
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Post by salopstick on Mar 12, 2019 12:22:45 GMT
The backstop remains and the pound has fallen sharply in the last 15 miuntes. Just wished I had enough money to short it..I'd make a fortune by the end of the day. Great news if you voted Brexit. Another few billion wiped off the value of British Companies. Along with the Trillion pounds that has now left the City. Fantastic news for shorters. Even better news for foreign investors and countries (USA & Middle East) who want to buy up (then break up) British Companies..because the fall in the pound since 2016 has wiped out 30% off their value. A price well worth paying to take back control and get our country back. If parliament had done their duty immediately after the vote and throughout the next two years it would be different. They have helped cause this process Accept the vote negotiate leave. Not the remain tactics we have witnessed. |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 12, 2019 12:24:02 GMT
Again never seen anyone suggest we won't have left just that we won't have full control. If the EU has any say in how the uk sets standards for the uk or conducts trade deals that can not be right, however the EU can set whatever standards it wants for the EU and if uk businesses want to trade within the EU they have to follow just like they do with standards in US, Canada, Australia etc if they want to trade there. There's a message one page back saying "MAY'S DEAL IS NOT OUT". What do you think that means? Exactly what I wrote above shall we keep going round in circles or is there an actual point ? |
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Post by Pedropotter on Mar 12, 2019 12:29:04 GMT
And I know a leaver that voted leave because he doesn't like the French...... A Yes Minister fan obviously :) Do you know what? I never watched it. I think I missed a treat. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 12:37:25 GMT
Have a General Election and let's decide between two No Brexit parties. Ace.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 12, 2019 12:41:19 GMT
A Yes Minister fan obviously Do you know what? I never watched it. I think I missed a treat. Its on netflix I am sure a little dated but basically one of the running jokes was the french couldnt be trusted. |
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Post by Pedropotter on Mar 12, 2019 12:50:02 GMT
Do you know what? I never watched it. I think I missed a treat. Its on netflix I am sure a little dated but basically one of the running jokes was the french couldnt be trusted. That might be where the gentleman in question gets his political views from then. :-) |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 12, 2019 12:53:01 GMT
Thank fuck Cheltenham is about to start. Stormy Ireland runs later, I think I
will back(stop) that.
Despite Brexit.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 12, 2019 13:50:47 GMT
Its on netflix I am sure a little dated but basically one of the running jokes was the french couldnt be trusted. That might be where the gentleman in question gets his political views from then. :-) Which was my original point |
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Post by Pedropotter on Mar 12, 2019 14:47:29 GMT
That might be where the gentleman in question gets his political views from then. :-) Which was my original point :) Like Brexit - round in circles... :-) |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 12, 2019 15:11:01 GMT
And to think, we could've been at this point a couple of months ago if May would've accepted that the deal that brought about the biggest government defeat in history was maybe just a little bit shit.
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