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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 10, 2019 20:14:46 GMT
I was trying to make the point (obviously poorly) that we'd be, as a recent leaver (if we do), still ahead of others that are maybe trying to join for the first time. I.e. we'll be ahead of the rest if the plan is to BRINO to appease the natives, hope the dust settles, then go back cap in hand. I agree as a recent leaver we would be ahead of anyone else wanting to join. But that isn't to do with the deal we get, in my opinion. Which is where, in my opinion, the difference in perspective is. In my view one plan looks to be; do a BRINO, stay aligned, then push for an early re-join. Others, and they are entitled so see it differently, may see 'leave is leave whatever the terms' and coincidentally maybe in a position to rejoin, if the opportunity arises sometime in the future. Otherwise, why would May U turn on hanging around and Corbyn sell his long held beliefs down the river? |
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Post by sorethumbs on Mar 10, 2019 20:25:30 GMT
If they want to find out what the people want, there has to be a second referendum on the final outcome. Latest polls show that 3/4 of people now eligible to vote who weren’t old enough last time (there are 2 million of them) would vote remain. That rises to 87% of those who say they would definitely vote if there was a referendum. Also only 2 constituencies want May’s deal. This has to go back to the people once a credible leave option emerges, whether that is May’s deal, no deal or something else. Then that can be put to the people against remain to see what people would prefer. Anything else is undemocratic. So your stance that referendums are undemocratic is cast aside when you when you want remain to be an option on another referendum? And now think that anything other than another referendum is undemocratic? Or am I missing something? |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 10, 2019 20:28:30 GMT
Never seen anyone suggest it would leave us as members still only that it leaves us under EU control with no say. So we will have left. Never seen anyone suggest it would leave us as members too cryptic for you ? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 10, 2019 20:42:03 GMT
The Tories have really ( deliberately?) messed things up.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 10, 2019 20:50:04 GMT
Not only is the argument now about the fundamental principles of democracy, it's about who controls Britain.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 10, 2019 21:29:55 GMT
Never seen anyone suggest it would leave us as members too cryptic for you ? So you don't believe in all this BRINO nonsense about not having actually left even we have left? Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick from your message. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 10, 2019 21:34:14 GMT
I agree as a recent leaver we would be ahead of anyone else wanting to join. But that isn't to do with the deal we get, in my opinion. Which is where, in my opinion, the difference in perspective is. In my view one plan looks to be; do a BRINO, stay aligned, then push for an early re-join. Others, and they are entitled so see it differently, may see 'leave is leave whatever the terms' and coincidentally maybe in a position to rejoin, if the opportunity arises sometime in the future. Otherwise, why would May U turn on hanging around and Corbyn sell his long held beliefs down the river? May is U-turning because she's in a minority government that has to continually shape-shift to try and keep a divided House of Commons functioning. Corbyn has U-turned because he's the leader of a party whose majority are in opposition to his long-held beliefs. The first part of your message is correct - we simply have differing viewpoints. Nowt wrong with that! |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 10, 2019 21:37:48 GMT
The Tories have really ( deliberately?) messed things up. Re: the first tweet, the EU have already 'given' us a deal, or negotiated a deal with us would be more accurate. The Brexit ball is stuck in the UK court, not the EU. The EU have been relatively consistent and efficient in the actual negotiations. |
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 10, 2019 21:40:38 GMT
That's been their plan all along. That’s why I’ll take may’s shit deal if I must That’s patriotic |
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 11, 2019 6:47:55 GMT
That’s why I’ll take may’s shit deal if I must That’s patriotic I would of told the Eu to piss off two years ago and left with no deal I explained in a earlier post my reason I would acept may’s deal Not because I like it not because I want to but because any type of brexit is an improvement to staying in |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Mar 11, 2019 7:40:42 GMT
Esther Mcvey lying out of her fucking arse. Tweets something which is proven to be false from 5 years ago, refuses to delete the tweet and even comments again after about the bullshit tweet. Never trust a Tory.
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Post by yeokel on Mar 11, 2019 9:34:54 GMT
What have Turkey got to do with it? I didn't say every country would join in the same time. I said the hypothetical rejoining time for a UK that left with a deal and a UK that left without a deal would be roughly the same. I was trying to make the point (obviously poorly) that we'd be, as a recent leaver (if we do), still ahead of others that are maybe trying to join for the first time. I.e. we'll be ahead of the rest if the plan is to BRINO to appease the natives, hope the dust settles, then go back cap in hand. With a national debt measured in the Trillions of £££s, a crumbling national infrastructure of roads & rails, extreme poverty with increasing numbers of people relying on foodbanks, a lawless society with massive levels of knife crime, not to mention record levels of child abuse perpetuated by certain sections of our population, and the possibility of WWW3 erupting at the Irish border, perhaps we could re-join as nett beneficiaries instead of nett contributors? Surely they would be falling over themselves to help us get up to their standards of economic prudence and high standards of living? |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 11, 2019 11:23:32 GMT
I was trying to make the point (obviously poorly) that we'd be, as a recent leaver (if we do), still ahead of others that are maybe trying to join for the first time. I.e. we'll be ahead of the rest if the plan is to BRINO to appease the natives, hope the dust settles, then go back cap in hand. With a national debt measured in the Trillions of £££s, a crumbling national infrastructure of roads & rails, extreme poverty with increasing numbers of people relying on foodbanks, a lawless society with massive levels of knife crime, not to mention record levels of child abuse perpetuated by certain sections of our population, and the possibility of WWW3 erupting at the Irish border, perhaps we could re-join as nett beneficiaries instead of nett contributors? Surely they would be falling over themselves to help us get up to their standards of economic prudence and high standards of living? Is this missing a winky face or something? |
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Post by yeokel on Mar 11, 2019 12:04:30 GMT
With a national debt measured in the Trillions of £££s, a crumbling national infrastructure of roads & rails, extreme poverty with increasing numbers of people relying on foodbanks, a lawless society with massive levels of knife crime, not to mention record levels of child abuse perpetuated by certain sections of our population, and the possibility of WWW3 erupting at the Irish border, perhaps we could re-join as nett beneficiaries instead of nett contributors? Surely they would be falling over themselves to help us get up to their standards of economic prudence and high standards of living? Is this missing a winky face or something? I sometimes wonder if this whole Brexit "negotiation" isn't missing a winky face or something! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 12:35:06 GMT
I would of told the Eu to piss off two years ago and left with no deal I explained in a earlier post my reason I would acept may’s deal Not because I like it not because I want to but because any type of brexit is an improvement to staying in It's not Brexit tho...is it? |
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 11, 2019 13:04:13 GMT
I would of told the Eu to piss off two years ago and left with no deal I explained in a earlier post my reason I would acept may’s deal Not because I like it not because I want to but because any type of brexit is an improvement to staying in It's not Brexit tho...is it? Sadly it may well be the best we will get it’s better than staying in the customs union and single market And better then a Norway style stitch up |
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Post by Northy on Mar 11, 2019 13:12:18 GMT
Check out @ladies4leave’s Tweet: That mad bint at the front looks like princess Di. The whole thing is a Daily Mail readers wet dream. better than a daily mirror one though  Attachment Deleted |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 11, 2019 15:10:23 GMT
Just in case anyone wondered about this "UK would've had to join the Euro in 2020" story: "This is incorrect. The UK, were it to be an EU member then, and Denmark have opt-outs which give them the right not to join the euro." www.bbc.com/news/uk-47523168 |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 11, 2019 15:49:05 GMT
Never seen anyone suggest it would leave us as members too cryptic for you ? So you don't believe in all this BRINO nonsense about not having actually left even we have left? Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick from your message. Again never seen anyone suggest we won't have left just that we won't have full control. If the EU has any say in how the uk sets standards for the uk or conducts trade deals that can not be right, however the EU can set whatever standards it wants for the EU and if uk businesses want to trade within the EU they have to follow just like they do with standards in US, Canada, Australia etc if they want to trade there. |
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 11, 2019 15:50:47 GMT
Just in case anyone wondered about this "UK would've had to join the Euro in 2020" story: "This is incorrect. The UK, were it to be an EU member then, and Denmark have opt-outs which give them the right not to join the euro." www.bbc.com/news/uk-47523168Until a politician gives the opt out away. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 11, 2019 15:55:47 GMT
So you don't believe in all this BRINO nonsense about not having actually left even we have left? Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick from your message. Again never seen anyone suggest we won't have left just that we won't have full control. If the EU has any say in how the uk sets standards for the uk or conducts trade deals that can not be right, however the EU can set whatever standards it wants for the EU and if uk businesses want to trade within the EU they have to follow just like they do with standards in US, Canada, Australia etc if they want to trade there. There's a message one page back saying "MAY'S DEAL IS NOT OUT". What do you think that means? |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 11, 2019 16:01:10 GMT
Just in case anyone wondered about this "UK would've had to join the Euro in 2020" story: "This is incorrect. The UK, were it to be an EU member then, and Denmark have opt-outs which give them the right not to join the euro." www.bbc.com/news/uk-47523168Until a politician gives the opt out away. We only have everything until a politician decides to change it - be it human rights, the opt-out from the Euro, or a proposed backstop to the WA agreement. What's your point? |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 11, 2019 16:47:41 GMT
Regardless of how much he has or hasn't made post-Brexit, it would've been nice to Rees-Mogg set up his new funds in the UK to show a bit of confidence in the country. Even if it did cost a bit more initially, now is surely the time that some of the leading politicians who have profitable business ventures should take the hit and stay in the UK. Rees-Mogg particularly would be able to gain from the huge post-Brexit benefits he talks of which will eventually come once we've left.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 11, 2019 16:52:33 GMT
Until a politician gives the opt out away. We only have everything until a politician decides to change it - be it human rights, the opt-out from the Euro, or a proposed backstop to the WA agreement. What's your point? Exactly having thought about it sign up to may’s deal Get shot of her bring in a believer of brexit Spend two years negotiating the trade deal if we don’t get the deal we walk and tell them to shove the backstop we aren’t putting the boarder up it’s entirely up to them |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 18:44:36 GMT
May's on her way to Strasbourg to meet Juncker for "unscheduled talks". It's rumoured there may be some sort of deal over the backstop.
Statement expected later tonight.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 11, 2019 18:58:26 GMT
May's on her way to Strasbourg to meet Juncker for "unscheduled talks". It's rumoured there may be some sort of deal over the backstop. Statement expected later tonight. They are hoping to do a deal to keep the UK in the Euromillions lotto in the event of no deal.  #Projectfear may have missed a trick... |
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 11, 2019 19:06:15 GMT
If they want to find out what the people want, there has to be a second referendum on the final outcome. Latest polls show that 3/4 of people now eligible to vote who weren’t old enough last time (there are 2 million of them) would vote remain. That rises to 87% of those who say they would definitely vote if there was a referendum. Also only 2 constituencies want May’s deal. This has to go back to the people once a credible leave option emerges, whether that is May’s deal, no deal or something else. Then that can be put to the people against remain to see what people would prefer. Anything else is undemocratic. So your stance that referendums are undemocratic is cast aside when you when you want remain to be an option on another referendum? And now think that anything other than another referendum is undemocratic? Or am I missing something? Yes, you are missing something. Referenda are undemocratic. 100%. But now we have had one, spent a few years saying we will back te oucone (which everyone has a different view of what the outcome actually was!), the only sensible thing to do is to have another referendum to determine what people actually want. Whilst I would back a leader who said “you know what, Brexit will be bad for the vast majority of the UK and businesses here so let’s not do it”, I think that would be met by anger from many who still think brexit is a good idea. The second referendum could be far more democratic than the first as it would give two tangible options this time. It would also be upto date. Why intentionally hurt our economy and make us all poorer without checking that is really what people want? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 11, 2019 19:08:05 GMT
If they want to find out what the people want, there has to be a second referendum on the final outcome. Latest polls show that 3/4 of people now eligible to vote who weren’t old enough last time (there are 2 million of them) would vote remain. That rises to 87% of those who say they would definitely vote if there was a referendum. Also only 2 constituencies want May’s deal. This has to go back to the people once a credible leave option emerges, whether that is May’s deal, no deal or something else. Then that can be put to the people against remain to see what people would prefer. Anything else is undemocratic. Wrong there should not be a second vote but if somehow there is the question of remain or leave has been decided The question should be deal or no deal we have already decided to leave And presumably labour cannot stand at the next election and all people now eligible to vote should also be banned from a say. Democracy ended on referendum day did it? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 11, 2019 19:10:16 GMT
If they want to find out what the people want, there has to be a second referendum on the final outcome. Latest polls show that 3/4 of people now eligible to vote who weren’t old enough last time (there are 2 million of them) would vote remain. That rises to 87% of those who say they would definitely vote if there was a referendum. Also only 2 constituencies want May’s deal. This has to go back to the people once a credible leave option emerges, whether that is May’s deal, no deal or something else. Then that can be put to the people against remain to see what people would prefer. Anything else is undemocratic. Even on those no doubt femi approved made up numbers, I make you are still 200k short. Leave on the 29th on WTO for me. Can you give me some examples of WTO rules please? And tell me why they will be better for our economy than being a member of the single market. Also, please explain why Liam Fox (and other brexiteers) are so desperate to strike trade agreements if WTO rules are so good for is. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 11, 2019 19:16:45 GMT
Even on those no doubt femi approved made up numbers, I make you are still 200k short. Leave on the 29th on WTO for me. Can you give me some examples of WTO rules please? And tell me why they will be better for our economy than being a member of the single market. Also, please explain why Liam Fox (and other brexiteers) are so desperate to strike trade agreements if WTO rules are so good for is. Is it about now you're expecting a happy event? (No I don't mean revoking A50! ) |
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