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Post by smallthorner on Mar 2, 2019 11:00:48 GMT
Yes I've just read the thread ... We're leaving the EU in a few weeks. What's the problem? The problem is that MPs are trying everything they can not to leave in a few weeks No..we're going mate. Just like you voted for. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 2, 2019 11:38:07 GMT
A simple question is 'What wouldn't like to see that is in the deal from the EU?' The Irish backstop has become the comfort blanket for both remainers and the EU. Immediately after the referendum result I would have invoked Article 50 as opposed to waiting 9 months, I would have liked to have seen an all party commission consisting mostly of politicians who were pro Brexit and a leave prime minister wouldn't have gone amiss. The EU were fully confident that Westminster didn't really want to invoke 'Brexit' and we are left with the abortion of a situation we see almost 3 years after the vote. Fair enough, but you haven’t answered the question. What deal would you want that isn’t in May’s proposal? I’m not going to ask you about how to deal with the back stop without a hard border, because I’m not sure anybody has an answer to that. What would you like to see from the EU that hasn’t been offered to the UK already? Your question is flawed. Your approach to the discussion is the reason we're at this impasse. "What would I like to see from the EU that hasn't been offered" I don't care what the EU want to offer. I don't really negotiate trying to second guess what the other person wants. I set out my offer based on what I want to achieve. The 'answer' to your question is easy. A trade deal. Or at least the groundwork agreed, with the process' per sector to be developed over an "implementation" period. Agreeing a future trading relationship negates the need for a backstop. Citzen's rights should never have been part of the WA but it was the EU who insisted they were. May offered to take them off the table way back in December 2016 but the EU refused. Any money should be based on a share of the assets as in any 'divorce'. At the very least the £39bn is staggered over the next 3 years for full access to the SM in return. After that the new trading relationship would kick in. The Irish border is a nonsense. A complete red herring. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 2, 2019 11:43:57 GMT
So here's the German press reporting Barnier revealing that Corbyn had told him he was going to back a second ref. Only about a week before Corbyn told the HoC and Labour Voters.
Are you a Labour voter outside the M25 and voted Leave?
Tough shit. Labour doesn't give a flying fuck about your vote.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 2, 2019 11:50:35 GMT
Here we go. Can't say they weren't warned.
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 2, 2019 12:46:54 GMT
Here we go. Can't say they weren't warned. How long before this group is branded extremist and outlawed though. You can bet your bottom dollar it is already infiltrated with security services. They won't stand a chance. The success in France is because its smaller groups working for a wider aim with no one body controlling it.. something which tries to coordinate is easier to predict and plan for from the authorities perspective. |
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Mar 2, 2019 13:24:43 GMT
Well worth reading:this from Betsy MacKay, who has researched the inner workings of the EU for her Masters Degree. First shared before the referendum. This is a superb piece about the EU, which everyone should read.
" I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis.
Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late.
Truth is it almost....almost...almost is too late.
We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because they very deliberately decided not to tell you. They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded, systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did!
But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever.
Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt.
I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come.
The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties.
So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)
The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.
The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the New World Order by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe.
Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale.
The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.
The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP),
Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies.
And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more.
What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar?
No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP."
This is what your government has been up to for 40 years. Creating wealth and power for them at the expense of the 'slavery' and poverty they have created for us. Theresa May is still doing it by keeping us in deliberately, when we do not need to be.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 17:39:12 GMT
Extract from an article on AOL News - "Is this the crucial turning point" ?
Brussels is ready to give the UK further "guarantees, assurances and clarifications" that the Irish backstop should only be temporary, Michel Barnier has said.
However the EU's chief Brexit negotiator insisted that the controversial measure, intended to avoid a hard border on Ireland, will not be removed from the Withdrawal Agreement.
While acknowledging Brexiteer concerns that the backstop is a trap that would keep the UK tied to the EU indefinitely, Mr Barnier insisted it is only "insurance" intended for the "worst-case scenario".
Speaking to German newspaper Die Welt, Mr Barnier said: "We know that there are misgivings in Britain that the backstop could keep Britain forever connected to the EU.
"This is not the case. And we are ready to give further guarantees, assurances and clarifications that the backstop should only be temporary."
The guarantees in question could come as an adjunct to the withdrawal agreement in the form of an "interpretive document".
However the EU will not allow for a time limit to be placed on the backstop or give Britain the right to unilaterally pull out of it, Mr Barnier said.
The development came as the president of Slovenia suggested the country and many other EU states would be willing to accept a short delay to Brexit.
Borut Pahor, who sat on the European Council of leaders when he was prime minister, told Sky News: "I think Slovenia and a lot of other countries would say yes.
"I think that nobody wants to see a hard Brexit in a chaotic way, which would damage London and Brussels and Ljubljana and every country."
Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn re-confirmed Labour would now back a referendum if faced with a "damaging Tory Brexit" or a no-deal departure from the European Union after the Labour leader's vision was rejected in the Commons.
Chief Secretary to the Treasury Liz Truss warned on Friday that a new Brexit referendum would provoke a "massive crisis".
She also indicated that a no-deal exit could be better than a delay.
Ms Truss told the BBC: "I think it would be an absolute disaster if we had a second referendum after people voted so clearly to leave the European Union.
"There will be a massive crisis in this nation. And it would be terrible for business. It would leave us continuing in this limbo period."
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Post by 4372 on Mar 2, 2019 20:40:55 GMT
Well worth reading:this from Betsy MacKay, who has researched the inner workings of the EU for her Masters Degree. First shared before the referendum. This is a superb piece about the EU, which everyone should read." I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis. Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late. Truth is it almost....almost...almost is too late. We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because they very deliberately decided not to tell you. They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded, systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did! But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever. Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt. I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come. The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties. So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US. The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the New World Order by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe. Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale. The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area. The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies. And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more. What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar? No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP." This is what your government has been up to for 40 years. Creating wealth and power for them at the expense of the 'slavery' and poverty they have created for us. Theresa May is still doing it by keeping us in deliberately, when we do not need to be. How on earth is that "Well worth reading"? It is an insult to any individual's intelligence to produce a brick wall of text, and expect people to read that. I would hope for better command of a Keyboard from someone who has a Master's Degree. From what I can see it is absolute drivel. Even BJR would be embarrassed by it. |
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Post by Gods on Mar 2, 2019 22:44:51 GMT
It does sound like the tory brexiteers are beginning to crack, I fancy Terry May will get her deal through.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 3, 2019 1:06:17 GMT
Well worth reading:this from Betsy MacKay, who has researched the inner workings of the EU for her Masters Degree. First shared before the referendum. This is a superb piece about the EU, which everyone should read." I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis. Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late. Truth is it almost....almost...almost is too late. We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because they very deliberately decided not to tell you. They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded, systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did! But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever. Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt. I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come. The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties. So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US. The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the New World Order by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe. Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale. The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area. The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies. And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more. What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar? No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP." This is what your government has been up to for 40 years. Creating wealth and power for them at the expense of the 'slavery' and poverty they have created for us. Theresa May is still doing it by keeping us in deliberately, when we do not need to be. How on earth is that "Well worth reading"? It is an insult to any individual's intelligence to produce a brick wall of text, and expect people to read that. I would hope for better command of a Keyboard from someone who has a Master's Degree. From what I can see it is absolute drivel. Even BJR would be embarrassed by it. I'm still trying to find proof that this woman even exists with the honors that she claims to have. Other than a Facebook profile that posted this block of text, I can't find any evidence of her as an academic. I'll keep searching though. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 3, 2019 7:55:16 GMT
It does sound like the tory brexiteers are beginning to crack, I fancy Terry May will get her deal through. Not so sure. With the majority remain HoC almost certain to vote against No Deal but vote for a delay the ERG can happily vote against the WA again knowing this isn't the last 'Meaningful Vote'. In fact, if there's precious little concessions coming from Brussels and the WA gets panned again that just flips the pressure back to the EU. They're still wanting an exit clause... Peace deal? |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 3, 2019 10:24:21 GMT
Here we go. Can't say they weren't warned. #BrexitLivesMatter |
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Mar 3, 2019 11:06:07 GMT
How on earth is that "Well worth reading"? It is an insult to any individual's intelligence to produce a brick wall of text, and expect people to read that. I would hope for better command of a Keyboard from someone who has a Master's Degree. From what I can see it is absolute drivel. Even BJR would be embarrassed by it. I'm still trying to find proof that this woman even exists with the honors that she claims to have. Other than a Facebook profile that posted this block of text, I can't find any evidence of her as an academic. I'll keep searching though. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 3, 2019 11:20:22 GMT
I'm still trying to find proof that this woman even exists with the honors that she claims to have. Other than a Facebook profile that posted this block of text, I can't find any evidence of her as an academic. I'll keep searching though. Thanks. With that information, I had a further look based on what she had studied. I found no evidence of any academic work on Google Scholar - to put this into perspective, a have a friend who worked very very briefly for a university and he has a couple of publications on there. |
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Post by 4372 on Mar 3, 2019 12:02:20 GMT
You are a better man than me RRP. I was never going to check that source. It seemed clearly to be first drivel. If you want to believe it Percy, be my guest.
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Post by 4372 on Mar 3, 2019 17:55:25 GMT
Meanwhile, the Danish prime minister, Lars Løkke Rasmussen, defended his own pledge to never put his country’s membership of the EU to a referendum by highlighting the damage to the British economy in which “one car factory after another stops or cancels planned production”.
Rasmussen said the British public had been taken in by “some rhetorically skilled politicians who turned out to be untrustworthy conmen who subsequently left the sinking ship”.
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 3, 2019 19:07:51 GMT
Meanwhile, the Danish prime minister, Lars Løkke Rasmussen, defended his own pledge to never put his country’s membership of the EU to a referendum by highlighting the damage to the British economy in which “one car factory after another stops or cancels planned production”. Rasmussen said the British public had been taken in by “some rhetorically skilled politicians who turned out to be untrustworthy conmen who subsequently left the sinking ship”. Just to remind you, there is a bit of an issue within the car industry at the momemt and it's got nothing to do with Brexit  www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/german-juggernaut-may-face-economic-jam-as-tariffs-and-brexit-loom/ar-BBUeCQ1?ocid=spartanntp |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 3, 2019 19:20:10 GMT
The only person to mention a Canada Plus Brexit recently has been Tony Blair, who called it a hard Brexit. Why is nobody else mentioning it, whereas Norway Plus is being considered?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 3, 2019 19:24:03 GMT
Priti always talks sense.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 3, 2019 19:49:13 GMT
Fairness, centralisation and Bureacracy, a German view.
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Post by harryburrows on Mar 3, 2019 19:56:56 GMT
Fairness, centralisation and Bureacracy, a German view. Henkel. Has always spoken up for Britain in the European Parliament. Top man |
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Post by thevoid on Mar 3, 2019 22:17:15 GMT
Priti always talks sense. They can't call her the R-word neither. That'll confuse some people. |
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Post by 4372 on Mar 3, 2019 23:19:48 GMT
Meanwhile, the Danish prime minister, Lars Løkke Rasmussen, defended his own pledge to never put his country’s membership of the EU to a referendum by highlighting the damage to the British economy in which “one car factory after another stops or cancels planned production”. Rasmussen said the British public had been taken in by “some rhetorically skilled politicians who turned out to be untrustworthy conmen who subsequently left the sinking ship”. Just to remind you, there is a bit of an issue within the car industry at the momemt and it's got nothing to do with Brexit www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/german-juggernaut-may-face-economic-jam-as-tariffs-and-brexit-loom/ar-BBUeCQ1?ocid=spartanntpYes, I am sure it is one big, unfortunate co-incidence.... |
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Post by Northy on Mar 4, 2019 8:50:19 GMT
Yes, I am sure it is one big, unfortunate co-incidence.... THE EU pushes hard on emissions on cars and diesels, the UK government raises tax on diesel cars and on diesel company cars, people and companies stop buying diesel cars, it's not rocket science. |
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Post by 4372 on Mar 4, 2019 9:45:38 GMT
Not having that. Diesel may well be an issue. So is the Brexit vote.
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Post by potteringermany on Mar 4, 2019 10:09:55 GMT
You're right 4372 - Brexit is a major problem for all UK manufacturing.
There has been a significant rise in petrol cars and most manufacturers are simply adjusting their production lines accordingly - after all, it's not rocket science |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 4, 2019 10:56:25 GMT
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Post by Northy on Mar 4, 2019 11:33:30 GMT
Is that site legal, I couldn't find anywhere to turn off cookies. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 4, 2019 11:51:02 GMT
Is that site legal, I couldn't find anywhere to turn off cookies. Yes. I'm no internet expert so not sure about the cookie issue, but you can contact them here if you wish: cpmr.org/who-we-are/contact/ |
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Post by 4372 on Mar 5, 2019 11:01:45 GMT
"The trap lies not in being part of the European Union; the trap is in the lie and the irresponsibility that can destroy it.
Who told the British people the truth about their post-Brexit future? Who spoke to them about losing access to the EU market? Who mentioned the risks to peace in Ireland of restoring the border? Retreating into nationalism offers nothing; it is rejection without an alternative.
And this is the trap that threatens the whole of Europe: the anger-mongers, backed by fake news, promise anything and everything."
Emmanuel Macron today.
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