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Post by Northy on Jan 3, 2019 8:27:34 GMT
Correct And the answer was leave Time for the gutless charlatan’s masquerading as MPs got on with the job And the UK is on schedule to leave the EU. But not on the terms that the then PM said in his speech, too many remoaners wanting to muddy the waters
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Post by 4372 on Jan 3, 2019 8:59:44 GMT
And the UK is on schedule to leave the EU. But not on the terms that the then PM said in his speech, too many remoaners wanting to muddy the waters You and I were not asked to vote on the terms of departure. Not on the ballot paper.Just Leave or Remain. Imagine the chaos if everyone was asked to write down what they wanted.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 9:48:08 GMT
It's a shame ( and a deliberate obvious ploy mind) that Remainers don't understand what Leave means. I do understand how they retrospectively realise that they did not understand the question on the ballot paper. They can't seem to get their heads around having a deal and being in or out of the EU are 2 different concepts. Perhaps they simply can't face up to not getting their own way. Never mind.
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Post by Northy on Jan 3, 2019 10:12:05 GMT
But not on the terms that the then PM said in his speech, too many remoaners wanting to muddy the waters You and I were not asked to vote on the terms of departure. Not on the ballot paper.Just Leave or Remain. Imagine the chaos if everyone was asked to write down what they wanted. Do we ever get anything written on a ballot paper, all the parties manifesto's etc. ? No, we get to review them beforehand and then make a choice based on their policies and manifestos, Cameron's Chatham House speech was clear on the way we would leave, and if we voted leave that would be the final vote, respected and no 2nd referendum etc.
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Post by 4372 on Jan 3, 2019 10:47:45 GMT
You and I were not asked to vote on the terms of departure. Not on the ballot paper.Just Leave or Remain. Imagine the chaos if everyone was asked to write down what they wanted. Do we ever get anything written on a ballot paper, all the parties manifesto's etc. ? No, we get to review them beforehand and then make a choice based on their policies and manifestos, Cameron's Chatham House speech was clear on the way we would leave, and if we voted leave that would be the final vote, respected and no 2nd referendum etc. But speeches and slogans are all made in a context,and with a purpose. You cannot hold them up as biblical truths. Whatever your reasons were for voting one way or the other, they were decided before we voted, and they may or may not have been influenced by political campaigning. But the only thing we were asked to do on the Ballot Paper was to choose Remain or Leave.
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Post by yeokel on Jan 3, 2019 10:56:00 GMT
Do we ever get anything written on a ballot paper, all the parties manifesto's etc. ? No, we get to review them beforehand and then make a choice based on their policies and manifestos, Cameron's Chatham House speech was clear on the way we would leave, and if we voted leave that would be the final vote, respected and no 2nd referendum etc. But speeches and slogans are all made in a context,and with a purpose. You cannot hold them up as biblical truths. Whatever your reasons were for voting one way or the other, they were decided before we voted, and they may or may not have been influenced by political campaigning. But the only thing we were asked to do on the Ballot Paper was to choose Remain or Leave.And we chose to leave. And, as was pointed out at the time and has been on numerous times since, Leave meant leaving the EU and all of its entrails such as the customs union, single market, etc. Leave means Leave. It couldn’t have been made much simpler for you to comprehend.
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Post by 4372 on Jan 3, 2019 11:59:11 GMT
The Ballot Paper is what counts. Remain or Leave. Nothing else was asked for.
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Post by Northy on Jan 3, 2019 12:06:57 GMT
The Ballot Paper is what counts. Remain or Leave. Nothing else was asked for. Attachment Deleted
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Post by yeokel on Jan 3, 2019 12:08:54 GMT
The Ballot Paper is what counts. Remain or Leave. Nothing else was asked for. Nothing else needed to be asked. It was kept deliberately simple so that we could all understand it.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 3, 2019 12:27:31 GMT
Has project fear been cranked up a notch yet? It's surely about time that they start rolling out the ultimate of disaster scenarios to get people into a blind panic of the impending doom. Then, just as all hope seems lost along come the EU riding to the rescue with some minor last minute concessions to May's Deal, which we'll of course then be told is the greatest deal to have ever been struck & is our saviour from the awfulness of a 'cliff edge' Brexit.
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Post by 4372 on Jan 3, 2019 13:23:13 GMT
The Ballot Paper is what counts. Remain or Leave. Nothing else was asked for. Nothing else needed to be asked. It was kept deliberately simple so that we could all understand it. Agreed. The alternative decisions were laid out. The Referendum was based on a law passed in Parliament. Where was the law that defined what a Leave vote would mean? Things said in a speech or even written on the side of a bus have no legal standing. They just represent the noise in the background to the vote.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 13:35:28 GMT
I don't hear many positive arguments for Remaining in the failing EU.... although it's too late for arguments , after the event . we've had the People's vote. All I hear from the Remainers is negative whining and talking down of the UK. I think that the more that they try to grapple with " I didn't understand the question... please let me have my own way"... the more it exposes their desperation and paucity of argument. Likewise operation fear has overplayed its hand...the London intelligentsia and our political masters may convince themselves but I get the impression that ordinary people have become immune....and if catastrophe does occur in the early post BREXIT days it's simply a reflection on the failure of politicians ( both EU and UK) to do their job properly..... because they simply cannot accept , despite their best efforts to persuade and scare the people, that they actually have unbelievably simply chosen a different option than themselves, the clever people
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 3, 2019 13:44:29 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 14:08:12 GMT
These politicians do seem to make some nonsensical decisions. They need a bit of commonsense , perhaps an imput of reality and pragmatism which could be provided by the ordinary working man/ woman / family man or entrepreneur who in light of problems and challenges finds solutions and just gets on with it. ..and sees the opportunities presented by Brexit rather than trying to portray it as " a problem' that we need to mitigate for.... mind you that is still part of the agenda. Your post does convince me more and more that generally speaking they are out of their depth. Out of touch with the people, excel at talking the talk , not necessarily any good at business, strategy nor do they have the presence and conviction of some of the leaders of the past....in fact they seem to have developed the art of " being a politician"....the requirements of which are self preservation, toeing the party line, don't answer questions do we ( think we) have less chance of telling the truth and letting the cat out of the bag...also ,so full of self importance that we no need to listen , we know best and will tell you what to do.....the fundamental relationship between the electorate and the elected has changed in my opinion. Pity we cannot have a good clean Brexit and then back debate about where the country is going, what our values are, in relation to the wide world, not just confined by the bureacratic anti democratic , dictatorial EU. Labour really have missed a trick, unlike the revolutionary politics of Atlee and Bevan who seized the moment.
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Post by maxplonk on Jan 3, 2019 14:58:18 GMT
These politicians do seem to make some nonsensical decisions. They need a bit of commonsense , perhaps an imput of reality and pragmatism which could be provided by the ordinary working man/ woman / family man or entrepreneur who in light of problems and challenges finds solutions and just gets on with it. ..and sees the opportunities presented by Brexit rather than trying to portray it as " a problem' that we need to mitigate for.... mind you that is still part of the agenda. Your post does convince me more and more that generally speaking they are out of their depth. Out of touch with the people, excel at talking the talk , not necessarily any good at business, strategy nor do they have the presence and conviction of some of the leaders of the past....in fact they seem to have developed the art of " being a politician"....the requirements of which are self preservation, toeing the party line, don't answer questions do we ( think we) have less chance of telling the truth and letting the cat out of the bag...also ,so full of self importance that we no need to listen , we know best and will tell you what to do.....the fundamental relationship between the electorate and the elected has changed in my opinion. Pity we cannot have a good clean Brexit and then back debate about where the country is going, what our values are, in relation to the wide world, not just confined by the bureacratic anti democratic , dictatorial EU. Labour really have missed a trick, unlike the revolutionary politics of Atlee and Bevan who seized the moment. I've come to the conclusion that the Tories know they'll probably lose the next election and are trying to milk the current situation for themselves and their cronies for as much and as long as possible. A bit simplistic I'll admit but I'm getting tired of the whole business and this works for me. I agree with your point about them all being out of tpouch tho'.
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Post by Linx on Jan 3, 2019 15:05:53 GMT
Latest advice on booking your Easter break abroad: don’t.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 15:38:25 GMT
A couple of different perspectives on the European Union. Are they true or scaremongering. Either way , in my opinion, it would be disastrous to join the mainstay and means of control of the EU: the Euro...the ultimate end of Sovereignty ( and Democracy)
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 3, 2019 15:50:01 GMT
These politicians do seem to make some nonsensical decisions. They need a bit of commonsense , perhaps an imput of reality and pragmatism which could be provided by the ordinary working man/ woman / family man or entrepreneur who in light of problems and challenges finds solutions and just gets on with it. ..and sees the opportunities presented by Brexit rather than trying to portray it as " a problem' that we need to mitigate for.... mind you that is still part of the agenda. Your post does convince me more and more that generally speaking they are out of their depth. Out of touch with the people, excel at talking the talk , not necessarily any good at business, strategy nor do they have the presence and conviction of some of the leaders of the past....in fact they seem to have developed the art of " being a politician"....the requirements of which are self preservation, toeing the party line, don't answer questions do we ( think we) have less chance of telling the truth and letting the cat out of the bag...also ,so full of self importance that we no need to listen , we know best and will tell you what to do.....the fundamental relationship between the electorate and the elected has changed in my opinion. Pity we cannot have a good clean Brexit and then back debate about where the country is going, what our values are, in relation to the wide world, not just confined by the bureacratic anti democratic , dictatorial EU. Labour really have missed a trick, unlike the revolutionary politics of Atlee and Bevan who seized the moment. I've seen this a few times laugh laugh look we awarded a ferry service to a company that doesn't own any ferries, I guess these people never look at the ownership of airplanes and trains or does that not fit with the narrative.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 16:51:26 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 16:53:22 GMT
I do feel that the fear agenda is backfiring.
This man seems to understand the democratic question and centralised remote power compared to localised, something that Remainers fail to grasp.
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boru
Academy Starlet
Posts: 213
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Post by boru on Jan 3, 2019 17:05:26 GMT
A couple of different perspectives on the European Union. Are they true or scaremongering. Either way , in my opinion, it would be disastrous to join the mainstay and means of control of the EU: the Euro...the ultimate end of Sovereignty ( and Democracy) She is talking crap, the euro hasn't failed, far from it
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 17:26:25 GMT
A couple of different perspectives on the European Union. Are they true or scaremongering. Either way , in my opinion, it would be disastrous to join the mainstay and means of control of the EU: the Euro...the ultimate end of Sovereignty ( and Democracy) She is talking crap, the euro hasn't failed, far from it As I say a different perspective... mind you it hasn't achieved much for Greek, Spanish and Italian young people over the past 10 years. Who can say? Perhaps Greece and Italy would have done better if they had I think if I'd been them I'd rather control my own currency than to leave it to others ( the Germans and French) Apparently the French and Italian economies aren't doing brilliant, and the natives are getting a bit restless. Mind you the Following won't do so badly if they can have our money to prop up the CAP. IF 10 years ago we were in the position of the Greeks and Italians and were presented with what actually transpired in respect of hope, aspiration and opportunity for our young people , I think that the sensible choice would be to take another route. The Euro hasn't failed as a mechanism of control and as a strategy for ever closer union and control but it has not achieved much in terms of the lives of young people
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 17:30:29 GMT
Seems like the Northern Ireland border issue is being exposed as a bit of a red herring as we get nearer to March. Another prong to undermine Brexit and democracy
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Post by lordb on Jan 3, 2019 17:37:07 GMT
I see Michael Gove has joined the project dear bandwagon.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 3, 2019 17:38:26 GMT
Another perspective on the Euro .,.... In October 2016 Issing warned that the Stability and Growth Pact was near to failure, there was no market discipline because of ECB interventions and no fiscal control mechanism from markets or politicians. The ECB had "crossed the Rubicon" and was in an untenable position, struggling to carry out its conflicting roles as agent of monetary policy, banking regulator, and Troika enforcer. Noting that the bank already held over €1 trillion of bonds bought at artificially low or negative yields, so would face great losses when interest rates rise again, he warned "The ECB is now buying corporate bonds that are close to junk, and the haircuts can barely deal with a one-notch credit downgrade. The reputational risk of such actions by a central bank would have been unthinkable in the past." His conclusion was that in its current form the euro project was unworkable and one day would collapse www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/16/euro-house-of-cards-to-collapse-warns-ecb-prophet/
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jan 3, 2019 17:54:45 GMT
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Post by Northy on Jan 4, 2019 11:16:03 GMT
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 4, 2019 11:53:27 GMT
I see Michael Gove has joined the project dear bandwagon. You mean telling the truth?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 4, 2019 12:08:59 GMT
I agree with this Labour MP. If we do properly leave things could get very nasty. I actually would not put anything past those in power who want to prevent Brexit.
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Post by 4372 on Jan 4, 2019 12:10:05 GMT
James O'Brien has owned all the NO Deal mugwumps today.
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