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Post by prettything on Dec 26, 2018 23:45:09 GMT
It’s also worth noting that our major industry has shifted a hell of a lot since 73. (The car industry, even our own pottery industry) We have gone from manufacturing to being one of the world leaders in the service industry. We don’t really make anything anymore, compared to what we used to. The E.U. has helped smooth this transition. I Absolute rubbish! "We don’t really make anything anymore" - The UK is the World's 8th largest manufacturer. Try finding out some facts before you churn out your project fear crap.
Nothing to do with project fear, mate. Our economy has shifted massively since 73. We are a service based economy. Our car industry has been bought out by other countries, a lot of our own pottery industry is owned by foreign investors. Even Cadbury’s is owned by the Americans! I’m not talking “rubbish”. Please present me with a fact based argument if you are going to say things like that.
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Post by prettything on Dec 26, 2018 23:50:58 GMT
If these foreign owned manufacturing companies can’t trade freely and without tariffs which effect their bottom line, they will move.
I used to work for a major drinks corporation, trust me, they will move if it effects their profit and share price!
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 0:17:54 GMT
I'm sure there are plenty of websites with some facts if you bothered to use Google. In my work, I deal with hundreds of manufacturing companies often hidden away at the back of trading estates where their neighbours probably don't even know what they make, but here's one for you. The Manufacturer Magazine
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 0:34:39 GMT
I did and do “bother to look”
Many of those are in massive decline and many are owned by foreign companies.
A majority of steel comes from China, because of price, much like our textile industry. Our car manufacturing is owned by foreign companies, also.
That doesn’t leave us with much if these companies move to another country, and are allowed to trade free of tariffs.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 0:49:05 GMT
Even our drugs industry, mentioned in that article are globalised. These companies are reliant on new product development, acquisitions and obviously trade. They would move yesterday if Brexit affected their profits.
Much of our manufacturing aren’t really owned by UK owners and are now owned by investment, backed organisations, who care about one thing only.
Profit.
I can only use my old company, Diageo as an example.
Not manufacturing of course, but started off as a British company. They are a long way a way from being described as a British company.
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 0:59:48 GMT
Well thanks for your 'facts' and lack of links to back up your claims. Has this massive decline and foreign ownership all happened whilst we've been in the EU?. Interesting
As it happens, the companies I deal with are mostly hi tech British companies making some of the worlds finest products but don't let the facts get in the way of a good tabloid headline. The only things we've ever made are cars, shirts and plates - you should also be aware that we've also lost all the young boys who climb up chimney's to clean them.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 1:15:19 GMT
Well thanks for your 'facts' and lack of links to back up your claims. Has this massive decline and foreign ownership all happened whilst we've been in the EU?. Interesting As it happens, the companies I deal with are mostly hi tech British companies making some of the worlds finest products but don't let the facts get in the way of a good tabloid headline. The only things we've ever made are cars, shirts and plates - you should also be aware that we've also lost all the young boys who climb up chimney's to clean them. Hold on, you just accused me of not providing you with “links” without providing any yourself. We lead the world in many hi tech industries, and you are being very presumtious if you think that I presume our only exports are based on “cars, shirts and plates” If you need a helping hand, google Diageo, or the British car industry, history. I presumed you knew the history of this already. The only “tabloid headline “ has been used by you, fella. “Project Fear”.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 1:21:37 GMT
I have to agree with your view of our companies being acquired by foreign companies whilst we have been in the EU.
The EU has definitely contributed to globalisation. But us being out of the EU won’t stop this.
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Post by 4372 on Dec 27, 2018 7:58:20 GMT
Are we on Page 500 yet?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 27, 2018 8:18:13 GMT
The UK was 5th in 1973 and 5th now. A little over a decade ago 55% of UK exports went to the EU now it's 44% and the gap is continuing to widen. Also, an amount of that 44% are goods destined for outside the EU anyway and only trans shipped through places like Rotterdam. It's not a case of replacing EU trade with RoW trade it's about doing both. UK-EU tradeEven with the 44% figure, the E.U. is clearly our biggest customer. With a no deal, and trading with tariffs, this figure will seriously depreciate. The effects of this will send ripples, even waves, through our economy and on to the working man. Increasing trade with the rest of the world is welcome and looks great on paper. But when you add the culture differences and the simple distance to ship goods from country to country, it becomes a lot less appealing. On the 30th March the UK becomes the EU's biggest single customer and we all know the customer is king. That 44% will be 34% in another decade. By the EU's own research 90% of future global trade growth will be outside the EU. Only 6% of UK companies trade with the EU. any tariffs would and could be reciprocated so the market will find a balance. It's not going to be as black and white as WTO only. They're the basic set of rules but there will be many bilateral side deals and MFN status. There will be changes. If nothing else Brexit was a vote for change. There are other process' that could change the UK economy more than Brexit. The fear and hype is all political. The cultural differences are with the EU not the rest of the world. The Commonwealth comprises 2.8 Billion people with whom we share a common history, language, legal system, monarch, parliamentary process and social ties. We don't share a Common language with the EU. Our history has been as adversaries, we don't follow a civil law system and were not even on the same time zone. The UK is European by default of geography but global by our character. We're certainly not the EU.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 27, 2018 9:14:24 GMT
I actually said 'The United States of Americas', the clue being in the plural of America. The USA, Uraguay, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Mexico etc etc all being in a single market and custom union, all geared to ever closer political union with the Americas. Would you be happy with that as a resident of the USA? Mate you’re missing the point... the USA is ALREADY a Union of States.. the equivalent of Brexit here was the Civil War The civil war Wasn’t that the last one the Americans turned up to on time and actually won
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 27, 2018 9:19:48 GMT
Even our drugs industry, mentioned in that article are globalised. These companies are reliant on new product development, acquisitions and obviously trade. They would move yesterday if Brexit affected their profits. Much of our manufacturing aren’t really owned by UK owners and are now owned by investment, backed organisations, who care about one thing only. Profit. I can only use my old company, Diageo as an example. Not manufacturing of course, but started off as a British company. They are a long way a way from being described as a British company. And are Diageo planning to move whisky production out of Scotland?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 27, 2018 9:20:28 GMT
Yes and we’re still leaving
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 9:21:32 GMT
500 up and still it rumbles on and on and on !
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 27, 2018 9:44:18 GMT
So the EU isn't a rules based organisation. It's a protectionist racket that favours the stronger, pro EU countries. Wow, who knew?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 27, 2018 10:16:00 GMT
I don't know if all this is true.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 10:19:06 GMT
Even our drugs industry, mentioned in that article are globalised. These companies are reliant on new product development, acquisitions and obviously trade. They would move yesterday if Brexit affected their profits. Much of our manufacturing aren’t really owned by UK owners and are now owned by investment, backed organisations, who care about one thing only. Profit. I can only use my old company, Diageo as an example. Not manufacturing of course, but started off as a British company. They are a long way a way from being described as a British company. And are Diageo planning to move whisky production out of Scotland? You have to make Scotch in Scotland, but they’ve already made redundancies, there. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/diageo-brexit-cut-jobs-scotland-gmb-trade-union-alcoholic-drinks-company-scottish-employees-a7693511.html%3famp
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 10:24:09 GMT
Even our drugs industry, mentioned in that article are globalised. These companies are reliant on new product development, acquisitions and obviously trade. They would move yesterday if Brexit affected their profits. Much of our manufacturing aren’t really owned by UK owners and are now owned by investment, backed organisations, who care about one thing only. Profit. I can only use my old company, Diageo as an example. Not manufacturing of course, but started off as a British company. They are a long way a way from being described as a British company. Oh no, you've used that dirty word - profit. I have news for you my friend, if a company doesn't make a profit, it doesn't last very long. Not sure where you're going with this not a British company angle but Diageo formed when Grand Metropolitan (an English Company) merged with Guinness (an Irish company) and then later merged with a dutch company and the first thing on their website is "Diageo named Britain's most admired company 2018" ?
You're making all sorts of claims of doom & gloom for the future (without any supporting evidence) and I've provided one link to refute your claim that we don't manufacture anything in the UK any more, yet you state that I have provided no evidence?
FYI I am a director of a manufacturing company who buy form Europe and sell to Europe. We are a 100% English owned company who make a profit which we share out with our employees every month.
Whilst the big companies (steel, cars, aerospace etc.) turnover billions, so do all the smaller companies because there are far more of them.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 10:30:38 GMT
Even our drugs industry, mentioned in that article are globalised. These companies are reliant on new product development, acquisitions and obviously trade. They would move yesterday if Brexit affected their profits. Much of our manufacturing aren’t really owned by UK owners and are now owned by investment, backed organisations, who care about one thing only. Profit. I can only use my old company, Diageo as an example. Not manufacturing of course, but started off as a British company. They are a long way a way from being described as a British company. Oh no, you've used that dirty word - profit. I have news for you my friend, if a company doesn't make a profit, it doesn't last very long. Not sure where you're going with this not a British company angle but Diageo formed when Grand Metropolitan (an English Company) merged with Guinness (an Irish company) and then later merged with a dutch company and the first thing on their website is "Diageo named Britain's most admired company 2018" ? You're making all sorts of claims of doom & gloom for the future (without any supporting evidence) and I've provided one link to refute your claim that we don't manufacture anything in the UK any more, yet you state that I have provided no evidence?
FYI I am a director of a manufacturing company who buy form Europe and sell to Europe. We are a 100% English owned company who make a profit which we share out with our employees every month. Whilst the big companies (steel, cars, aerospace etc.) turnover billions, so do all the smaller companies because there are far more of them.
Diageo is owned by investment bankers and equity groups. They owned Burger King twenty years ago. They have offices all over the world, their own CEO is Indian. They started British, but are not anymore. My “doom and gloom” comes from reports from economists my reasons for staying comes from economists, as I quoted . Can you share any economists reports to say we will thrive outside the E.U.? If so, you may persuade me.
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 10:38:42 GMT
You should get back on to them and tell them to change the statement on their website then!
So you ignore all the bad bits of staying in the EU and solely base your decision on people who guess the future for a living. Often getting it wrong, but that doesn't matter because they still get paid for guessing again and again.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 10:47:36 GMT
I used to work for Diageo, they are British only in name, fella
Yup, I will side with economists every time over your opinion.
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 10:53:42 GMT
British in name only because the American English CEO was born in India? They are a British company primarily listed on the British stock exchange paying taxes in the UK. I drive a Mercedes, does that make me German?
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 11:00:44 GMT
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 11:08:21 GMT
British in name only because the American English CEO was born in India? They are a British company primarily listed on the British stock exchange paying taxes in the UK. I drive a Mercedes, does that make me German? Again you are being very presumptious, and no, not because the CEO is Indian . They are a multi national, now. The only British thing about them is that have head quarters in London. The CEOS always work at the office in New York, however.
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 11:10:56 GMT
Tax avoidance is a different argument but all through your link it refers to them being a UK company and just Johnnie Walker alone paid £107M in tax so I'd say the British economy benefit hugely from your non British company.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 11:12:33 GMT
They’re a multi national , with headquarters in the UK.
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 11:15:00 GMT
British in name only because the American English CEO was born in India? They are a British company primarily listed on the British stock exchange paying taxes in the UK. I drive a Mercedes, does that make me German? Again you are being very presumptious, and no, not because the CEO is Indian . They are a multi national, now. The only British thing about them is that have head quarters in London. The CEOS always work at the office in New York, however. Ha! so they're now not a British company because of what office he's working in.
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 11:15:04 GMT
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Post by prettything on Dec 27, 2018 11:29:10 GMT
Again you are being very presumptious, and no, not because the CEO is Indian . They are a multi national, now. The only British thing about them is that have head quarters in London. The CEOS always work at the office in New York, however. Ha! so they're now not a British company because of what office he's working in. Your doing it again! Stop this presumptious argument. They are a British based multi national. They are very far removed from being a British company.
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Post by Kilo on Dec 27, 2018 11:37:26 GMT
I don't disagree that they are a multi national company and I'm sure their 30+ subsidiary companies have a mixture of foreign nationals on their boards (although the majority of those are also listed as British companies) I'm talking about the direct subsidiary companies here not all the brand companies - many of which are also British companies. The World is full of multi national companies which exist irrespective of the EU
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