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Post by harryburrows on Dec 22, 2018 17:19:05 GMT
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 22, 2018 17:19:22 GMT
This recession will be a completely different beast. A recession is a fall in GDP for 2 successive quarters , that's all , it's not the apocalypse It doesn't even make the news if you're Germany 😉
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Post by prettything on Dec 22, 2018 17:21:50 GMT
I’m not “hellbent”, I just don’t want another recession thank you very much. I don’t think we are “shackled “ by Europe . Africa has half the GDP of France! People say we will be free to trade with the rest of the world. Who with? 27 of the richest countries in the world are in the EU (Out of 35) I’m not willing to pay that price for future generations to come, I’m afraid. What's your point here? Why do remainers have this obsession with being "rich"? It's a combination of project fear, greed and complete nonsense. You must vote Conservative right? The pound in your pocket and making money is THE most important thing to you. If GDP floats your boat you must be a massive Trump fan right?. He's presided over an economic boost. If GDP is your thing then you'll be gagging for a trade deal with California who has a GDP similar to France and greater than India, Italy or Brazil. Or Texas which has a greater GDP than Canada, Russia, Spain or South Korea. US States v Countries GDP Also, your EU 27 richest out 35 is nonsense. World GDPBeing rich? I lost my job in the last recession, I don’t want that to happen again. Give the “project fear” thing a rest, mate. It’s a tabloid headline and a load of bollocks to boot .
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Post by prettything on Dec 22, 2018 17:23:15 GMT
Not sure. I’m going on reports from these, people.
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Post by prettything on Dec 22, 2018 17:32:13 GMT
I’m not “hellbent”, I just don’t want another recession thank you very much. I don’t think we are “shackled “ by Europe . Africa has half the GDP of France! People say we will be free to trade with the rest of the world. Who with? 27 of the richest countries in the world are in the EU (Out of 35) I’m not willing to pay that price for future generations to come, I’m afraid. What's your point here? Why do remainers have this obsession with being "rich"? It's a combination of project fear, greed and complete nonsense. You must vote Conservative right? The pound in your pocket and making money is THE most important thing to you. If GDP floats your boat you must be a massive Trump fan right?. He's presided over an economic boost. If GDP is your thing then you'll be gagging for a trade deal with California who has a GDP similar to France and greater than India, Italy or Brazil. Or Texas which has a greater GDP than Canada, Russia, Spain or South Korea. US States v Countries GDP Also, your EU 27 richest out 35 is nonsense. World GDPThere are 35 countries in the world recognised by the IMF as having advanced economies. 27 of those are in the EU
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 22, 2018 17:36:36 GMT
What's your point here? Why do remainers have this obsession with being "rich"? It's a combination of project fear, greed and complete nonsense. You must vote Conservative right? The pound in your pocket and making money is THE most important thing to you. If GDP floats your boat you must be a massive Trump fan right?. He's presided over an economic boost. If GDP is your thing then you'll be gagging for a trade deal with California who has a GDP similar to France and greater than India, Italy or Brazil. Or Texas which has a greater GDP than Canada, Russia, Spain or South Korea. US States v Countries GDP Also, your EU 27 richest out 35 is nonsense. World GDPBeing rich? I lost my job in the last recession, I don’t want that to happen again. Give the “project fear” thing a rest, mate. It’s a tabloid headline and a load of bollocks to boot . No. Project Fear was and is real and is still the only conversation from remainers. You're the one who's incorrectly blarting about the "richest" countries being in the EU. If GDP is your thing the EU really isn't the best example. We were in the EU when you lost your job.
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 22, 2018 17:36:39 GMT
A recession is a fall in GDP for 2 successive quarters , that's all , it's not the apocalypse It doesn't even make the news if you're Germany 😉 Not happening whilst the Greeks pay 💰 top dollar to the krauts for their overdraft
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Post by prettything on Dec 22, 2018 17:40:41 GMT
Being rich? I lost my job in the last recession, I don’t want that to happen again. Give the “project fear” thing a rest, mate. It’s a tabloid headline and a load of bollocks to boot . No. Project Fear was and is real and is still the only conversation from remainers. You're the one who's incorrectly blarting about the "richest" countries being in the EU. If GDP is your thing the EU really isn't the best example. We were in the EU when you lost your job. And? If we leave without a deal, we will then have another recession, which will make the last one look tame, by comparison. “Blarting” 😂It called having concerns for my kids future.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 22, 2018 17:43:38 GMT
What's your point here? Why do remainers have this obsession with being "rich"? It's a combination of project fear, greed and complete nonsense. You must vote Conservative right? The pound in your pocket and making money is THE most important thing to you. If GDP floats your boat you must be a massive Trump fan right?. He's presided over an economic boost. If GDP is your thing then you'll be gagging for a trade deal with California who has a GDP similar to France and greater than India, Italy or Brazil. Or Texas which has a greater GDP than Canada, Russia, Spain or South Korea. US States v Countries GDP Also, your EU 27 richest out 35 is nonsense. World GDPThere are 35 countries in the world recognised by the IMF as having advanced economies. 27 of those are in the EU ?? The first column in my World GDP link is from the IMF. I'm being generous by adding Norway and Switzerland. The total is 10 EU economies in the first 35.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 22, 2018 17:50:11 GMT
No. Project Fear was and is real and is still the only conversation from remainers. You're the one who's incorrectly blarting about the "richest" countries being in the EU. If GDP is your thing the EU really isn't the best example. We were in the EU when you lost your job. And? If we leave without a deal, we will then have another recession, which will make the last one look tame, by comparison. “Blarting” 😂It called having concerns for my kids future. I wouldn't have a concern about your kids future. Unless they're interested in studying economics and you're teaching them.
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Post by prettything on Dec 22, 2018 17:55:32 GMT
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Post by 4372 on Dec 22, 2018 19:56:19 GMT
Three wars in the 75 years or so before the start of EU integration.No wars between EU member states in the last 70 years since its foundation. I know which I prefer. That’s pretty weak argument for remaining imo. Don’t you think that NATO has had something to do with peace, the nuclear deterrent, the biggest military power of the USA. To say that the E.U. has been the reason there has been no conflict is much like saying the British Commonwealth has kept the peace between member states. I would prefer the military protection of NATO alliance over the E.U. any day of the week. And on your last point we will have to agree to disagree. NATO was primarily pointed at the Eastern Bloc threat for many years, the EU is all about making it impossible for member states to go to war with each other. Not really sure why you think my argument for remaining in the EU is a weak one either, but I am sure that you are perfectly capable of reading up on say the causes of the First World War, or the historical Franco-German rivalry.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 22, 2018 20:57:57 GMT
That’s pretty weak argument for remaining imo. Don’t you think that NATO has had something to do with peace, the nuclear deterrent, the biggest military power of the USA. To say that the E.U. has been the reason there has been no conflict is much like saying the British Commonwealth has kept the peace between member states. I would prefer the military protection of NATO alliance over the E.U. any day of the week. And on your last point we will have to agree to disagree. NATO was primarily pointed at the Eastern Bloc threat for many years, the EU is all about making it impossible for member states to go to war with each other. Not really sure why you think my argument for remaining in the EU is a weak one either, but I am sure that you are perfectly capable of reading up on say the causes of the First World War, or the historical Franco-German rivalry. Mate the cause of WW1 is still debated even now. The catalyst is obvious but the underlying cause is still the subject of disagreement amongst historians. Having spent 34 yrs in the Royal Navy, much of it during the Cold War, I agree that NATO was primarily pointed at the Eastern Bloc during that time but, since 1990, it exists as a formidable alliance which includes many E.U. countries. I would disagree that the EU guarantees peace and besides that, what has the U.K. got to fear from the belligerence of individual European countries. The biggest threat is from the E.U. itself and it’s aim of total European Union. If you think that "the EU is all about making it impossible for member states to go to war with each other" you are not looking at the bigger picture.
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Post by 4372 on Dec 22, 2018 21:46:17 GMT
And on your last point we will have to agree to disagree. NATO was primarily pointed at the Eastern Bloc threat for many years, the EU is all about making it impossible for member states to go to war with each other. Not really sure why you think my argument for remaining in the EU is a weak one either, but I am sure that you are perfectly capable of reading up on say the causes of the First World War, or the historical Franco-German rivalry. Mate the cause of WW1 is still debated even now. The catalyst is obvious but the underlying cause is still the subject of disagreement amongst historians. Having spent 34 yrs in the Royal Navy, much of it during the Cold War, I agree that NATO was primarily pointed at the Eastern Bloc during that time but, since 1990, it exists as a formidable alliance which includes many E.U. countries. I would disagree that the EU guarantees peace and besides that, what has the U.K. got to fear from the belligerence of individual European countries. The biggest threat is from the E.U. itself and it’s aim of total European Union. If you think that "the EU is all about making it impossible for member states to go to war with each other" you are not looking at the bigger picture. It's clear that we are not going to agree on this issue, but at least the disagreement is pleasant and positive. You are right, I do not see the EU as some monolithic, malevolent monstrosity. I view it as part of a project to ensure that young men of any nationality have to face slaughter of any future European battlefield. It does not aim, at total European Union, and even if this was the case, then by any study of history it is bound to fail. You have referred to the collapse of the Soviet Union yourself, how many more Empires floundered in the last 1,000 years? I don’t follow European political events closely at all. On this thread there are people claiming that the EU is going for Ever Closer Union, and yet point out the rise of political parties against the EU, without seeing the apparent contradiction in those two statements. If those anti-EU movements are successful, then the EU (and the concept of Ever Closer Union) must fail. Also, I don’t see so far any rush to follow the UK out of the EU. So, somehow I think the EU will survive Brexit rather better than the UK will. It is (just about) possible to make a case that the UK does not fit well with the ideals of the EU, and we have certainly had an ambivalent relationship with it. I have heard government ministers make such a case. Fundamentally, I am of the view that historically, the UK is linked both to the EU and to Europe, and that is where our future lies. I really do not get the need to attack the founding principles behind the EU.
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Post by ravey123 on Dec 22, 2018 21:58:21 GMT
Mate the cause of WW1 is still debated even now. The catalyst is obvious but the underlying cause is still the subject of disagreement amongst historians. Having spent 34 yrs in the Royal Navy, much of it during the Cold War, I agree that NATO was primarily pointed at the Eastern Bloc during that time but, since 1990, it exists as a formidable alliance which includes many E.U. countries. I would disagree that the EU guarantees peace and besides that, what has the U.K. got to fear from the belligerence of individual European countries. The biggest threat is from the E.U. itself and it’s aim of total European Union. If you think that "the EU is all about making it impossible for member states to go to war with each other" you are not looking at the bigger picture. It's clear that we are not going to agree on this issue, but at least the disagreement is pleasant and positive. You are right, I do not see the EU as some monolithic, malevolent monstrosity. I view it as part of a project to ensure that young men of any nationality have to face slaughter of any future European battlefield. It does not aim, at total European Union, and even if this was the case, then by any study of history it is bound to fail. You have referred to the collapse of the Soviet Union yourself, how many more Empires floundered in the last 1,000 years? I don’t follow European political events closely at all. On this thread there are people claiming that the EU is going for Ever Closer Union, and yet point out the rise of political parties against the EU, without seeing the apparent contradiction in those two statements. If those anti-EU movements are successful, then the EU (and the concept of Ever Closer Union) must fail. Also, I don’t see so far any rush to follow the UK out of the EU. So, somehow I think the EU will survive Brexit rather better than the UK will. It is (just about) possible to make a case that the UK does not fit well with the ideals of the EU, and we have certainly had an ambivalent relationship with it. I have heard government ministers make such a case. Fundamentally, I am of the view that historically, the UK is linked both to the EU and to Europe, and that is where our future lies. I really do not get the need to attack the founding principles behind the EU. I have a number of friends/business contacts in both Italy and Greece and I can tell you that just because it is not reported on the EU Rose tinted media does not mean that these 2 countries at least are watching Brexit very closely. It's only a snapshot of the people I know but there as a massive groundswell of anti EU opinion in Italy and Greece, i cant comment on other EU countries but the 2 countries where i know a number of long standing friends and colleagues are definately and increasingly becomming anti EU.
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Post by 4372 on Dec 22, 2018 22:11:21 GMT
And in a way Ravey, you make my point. IF there was to be a further anti-EU movement in either of these countries, then the idea of Ever Closer Union would recede even further. You cannot have ECU and opposition to ECU both thriving.
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Post by ravey123 on Dec 22, 2018 22:32:54 GMT
And in a way Ravey, you make my point. IF there was to be a further anti-EU movement in either of these countries, then the idea of Ever Closer Union would recede even further. You cannot have ECU and opposition to ECU both thriving. The problem is that the unelected hoards at EU HQ are totally out of sinc with the "common People". There solution is always more of the same that created the situation in the first place. The elephant in the room for pro EU groups has a neme - DEMOCRACY
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 22, 2018 23:28:01 GMT
That’s a hyperthetical position. Who knows whether wars would have taken place without the EU? Or you could use the same logic and say we’ve had no wars because of NATO? Not at all a hypothetical position. If it is,I have been teaching modern history incorrectly for quite some time. Nato and the EU have both played a role in keeping the peace in Europe since 1945, and I am surprised that this is even in doubt. It may not be in doubt there has been no wars, but I don’t know how you can say the E.U. has secured this. As a teacher of history I’m guessing you will be able to say how many European wars there have been between 1945 and the start of the E.U., Turkey and Cyprus conflict aside. I don’t recall many and the E.U. wasn’t even created during this period so could the absence of wars not necessarily be attributed to the E.U.?
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 23, 2018 0:15:20 GMT
Let’s put the Great back into Britain , roll on March
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Post by 4372 on Dec 23, 2018 0:29:43 GMT
Last time I looked, it was already there.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 23, 2018 16:05:48 GMT
Let’s put the Great back into Britain , roll on March What put the Great in Britain was to a great part funded by the slave trade gun-boat plundering of wealth and other such crimes we as a country committed,i fear leaving the EU is more likely to take the United out Kingdom .
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 23, 2018 16:12:32 GMT
Last time I looked, it was already there. Problem with our democracy is first past the post,proportional representation would gives us a much fairer society,i would under such a scheme vote for a liberal or maybe even Green party i have for years voted for Labour (because no "Liberal" or Green candidate was on the ballot up where i live) but with Corbyn in charge i am up the creek without a paddle
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 23, 2018 16:34:49 GMT
Let’s put the Great back into Britain , roll on March What put the Great in Britain was to a great part funded by the slave trade gun-boat plundering of wealth and other such crimes we as a country committed,i fear leaving the EU is more likely to take the United out Kingdom . We are going out , it’s fine we are no longer land of the free for every journey man of the world , our little island cannot support every one
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Post by 4372 on Dec 23, 2018 18:28:38 GMT
Actually, it is good to find someone who voted to leave and seems to be happy with the prospective outcome. Fair Play to you.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 23, 2018 18:49:14 GMT
Let’s put the Great back into Britain , roll on March What put the Great in Britain was to a great part funded by the slave trade gun-boat plundering of wealth and other such crimes we as a country committed,i fear leaving the EU is more likely to take the United out Kingdom . No what put the great in Britain Was being that little bit better at doing what the rest of the world was doing You cannot committ a crime for something that was not a crime at the time
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Post by stokie66 on Dec 23, 2018 19:34:56 GMT
What put the Great in Britain was to a great part funded by the slave trade gun-boat plundering of wealth and other such crimes we as a country committed,i fear leaving the EU is more likely to take the United out Kingdom . No what put the great in Britain Was being that little bit better at doing what the rest of the world was doing You cannot committ a crime for something that was not a crime at the time Actually the name Great Britain is a purely geographical term. It was originally used to differentiate this island from Brittany and has nothing to do with us being a "wonderful" nation superior to others. As regards our actions whilst we we had an Empire. They were probably not perceived as a crime at the time but they were certainly despicable acts none the less.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 23, 2018 21:12:02 GMT
Stokie66 is correct. Great is an old word for large. There are scores of place names stating "Great" like Bridgeford in Staffordshire.
Large is a relative term. In North Yorkshire there is Little Ayton a small hamlet and Great Ayton a village, where it so happens one of the best ice creams is sold.
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 23, 2018 23:16:02 GMT
What put the Great in Britain was to a great part funded by the slave trade gun-boat plundering of wealth and other such crimes we as a country committed,i fear leaving the EU is more likely to take the United out Kingdom . No what put the great in Britain Was being that little bit better at doing what the rest of the world was doing You cannot committ a crime for something that was not a crime at the time What does the United in Kingdom mean? because that is what leave is threatening to spoil and as for your first point if you think what are country did in the past was acceptable and was not a crime i do not share your values ?(if you actually have any)
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 24, 2018 0:11:59 GMT
One reason I hope we stick in the single market or at least stick to European rules is shit like this. The biggest corporations want countries and states to follow many different rules so they can make us play against each other. "Give us big tax breaks or we'll go elsewhere", "get rid of union protections or we'll go elsewhere", "if you raise the minimum wage we'll go elsewhere", "let us leave piles of toxic waste all over your country or we'll go elsewhere". Breaking away from European labour, environmental & state aid rules will give more negotiating power to the richest corporations and fuck normal people. Again.
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Post by 3putts on Dec 24, 2018 2:59:00 GMT
Let’s put the Great back into Britain , roll on March What put the Great in Britain was to a great part funded by the slave trade gun-boat plundering of wealth and other such crimes we as a country committed,i fear leaving the EU is more likely to take the United out Kingdom . Once we leave it will open up a huge can of worms and it will split the UK up. Scotland will vote for independence and will rejoin the EU as will Wales and ni You will also see parts of England demanding independance Shit storms coming but Shhhh you are not allowed to mention it project fear
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