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Post by starkiller on Nov 30, 2018 9:42:53 GMT
Just what precisely is the point of having a TV debate when it's MP's minds May needs to change rather than the general publics. It's an exercise in complete futility. It's setting the groundwork. Theresa May argues for her 'deal', Jezza argues for 'Remain/Second Referendum'. All MSM outlets spend the next month constantly ramming down our throats the need for a so-called People's Vote. Early next year we're set back to the voting booth with the question "What should the United Kingdom do?" 01 - Accept 'The Deal'. or 02 - Remain in The European Union. Stitch-up complete. The people who said the electorate were too stupid to vote in a referendum are desperate for another referendum. Can any one of these duplicitous cunts explain this to me? The decision to leave the EU has been made by the electorate. So any new poll should have two choices. May's deal OR No deal and WTO rules. |
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Post by 4372 on Nov 30, 2018 10:22:10 GMT
Yes, that seems very democratic. Leave has had a chance to deliver,and messed up,or has found the process more complex than people were led to believe.You don't get to decide the terms of any new referendum.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 30, 2018 10:34:35 GMT
Yes, that seems very democratic. Leave has had a chance to deliver,and messed up,or has found the process more complex than people were led to believe.You don't get to decide the terms of any new referendum. Who are this 'Leave' you mention? Leave is a democratic decision of the electorate and it has not been implemented. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 30, 2018 10:56:32 GMT
I completely agree. Most of the stories I read have mentioned the fact that it's a worst case scenario forecast, but that part doesn't have much impact when it's under a headline of "Brexit will shrink economy 8%". Yes and even that headline should be shrink economy by 8% if the EU and the Bank of England do nothing, so effectively the story is equivalent to if your house catches fire it will burn down if you don't attempt to put the fire out............ Shrinks the growth of the economy. Many people believe Brexit will shrink the (existing) economy by 8%. It's an important difference to make. |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 30, 2018 11:23:41 GMT
Yes, that seems very democratic. Leave has had a chance to deliver,and messed up,or has found the process more complex than people were led to believe.You don't get to decide the terms of any new referendum. After the referendum over 2 years ago politicians should have focussed on leaving to fulfil the democratic will of the population. Instead they have argued and bickered all in the cause of their own agendas. Corbynski wants No 10 and is using it to his own end, Jimmy Krankie wants IndyRef2 and is also using it to get it. The only political party with any credence imo is the DUP who, quite rightly, see NI left high and dry with the backstop agreement. Meanwhile the population, remainers and leavers alike, shakes its head in disbelief at the mess that the legacy of the despicable Withdrawal Agreement will leave for generations to come. Roger put a link to a plain English guide to the WA. It’s worth a read if you haven’t already done so. Guarantee it will shock even the most ardent remainer. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 30, 2018 12:28:47 GMT
Yes and even that headline should be shrink economy by 8% if the EU and the Bank of England do nothing, so effectively the story is equivalent to if your house catches fire it will burn down if you don't attempt to put the fire out............ Shrinks the growth of the economy. Many people believe Brexit will shrink the (existing) economy by 8%. It's an important difference to make. Yes much like the you will be worse off than now lie repeated many times when all the forecasts show at worst that you will not be as well off as forecast if we stayed in the EU but still better off than today... |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 30, 2018 12:52:47 GMT
This thread gives some insight ( which may or may not be genuine) into the issues and potential unreliability of forecasting. I have to wonder what is the value of economic forecasting in such a turbulent and unpredictable age in which we find ourselves. One of the benefits of BREXIT was for us as a nation to rediscover our entrepreneurial spirit to make quicker decisions and to grasp opportunities in our own interest not that of an unknown bureacracy that tries to control the interests of 27 diverse countries.
But to get to my main point......The forecasters are not fortune tellers. The world has changed immensely in the past 10 years , due to technology, not least in terms of commerce, communication and financial transactions. The next 10 years cannot be predicted. Even if the actual developments could be predicted the main beneficiaries and players cannot.
Just simple things.....in my town's high street there are two adjacent shops selling vaporites/e cigarettes. Plastics are out of favour..... many other unpredictable changes will occur.
Just a few thoughts
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 30, 2018 12:57:23 GMT
Absolute balls I’ve reliably been told by remainers on here and politians there is a groundswell for remain and no mandate or wish for no deal |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 30, 2018 13:08:55 GMT
Planes can still take off and land even if you're not in the EU. Wow. Who knew?
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 30, 2018 13:12:12 GMT
This thread gives some insight ( which may or may not be genuine) into the issues and potential unreliability of forecasting. I have to wonder what is the value of economic forecasting in such a turbulent and unpredictable age in which we find ourselves. One of the benefits of BREXIT was for us as a nation to rediscover our entrepreneurial spirit to make quicker decisions and to grasp opportunities in our own interest not that of an unknown bureacracy that tries to control the interests of 27 diverse countries. But to get to my main point......The forecasters are not fortune tellers. The world has changed immensely in the past 10 years , due to technology, not least in terms of commerce, communication and financial transactions. The next 10 years cannot be predicted. Even if the actual developments could be predicted the main beneficiaries and players cannot. Just simple things.....in my town's high street there are two adjacent shops selling vaporites/e cigarettes. Plastics are out of favour..... many other unpredictable changes will occur. Just a few thoughts No it seems a plausible insight and tallies with my experience of forecasting financials, about the only thing it forgets to mention is the golden rule of forecasting always make sure to forecast worse than the actual outcome because 1. You get paid bonuses on performance against forecast /budget  and 2. Forecasts are always wrong so explaining why you are doing better than forecast is much more pleasant than explaining why you are doing worse than forecast. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 30, 2018 13:14:03 GMT
Planes can still take off and land even if you're not in the EU. Wow. Who knew? Fantastic as I probably leave closest to Heathrow relatively I will be happy to go and get us all some drinking water and chlorinated chicken just let me know your orders before 29/3/19  |
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Post by starkiller on Nov 30, 2018 13:16:39 GMT
"how the political class has blatantly ignored and deceived the electorate" Priceless, given the lies told by Farage and Boris. Boris lied on his bus about £350 million. It's actually £394 million a week. start at 1:30 |
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 30, 2018 14:23:41 GMT
Planes can still take off and land even if you're not in the EU. Wow. Who knew? Yes but we won't have any lettuces Tomatoes, wine , prosseco , chocolates, internet , fresh water ,etc etc etc |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 14:56:13 GMT
Makes you wonder how Alfred became great
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 30, 2018 19:52:11 GMT
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 30, 2018 20:01:51 GMT
Planes can still take off and land even if you're not in the EU. Wow. Who knew? Yes but we won't have any lettuces Tomatoes, wine , prosseco , chocolates, internet , fresh water ,etc etc etc We'll all be dead from super gonnorrhea to worry about it. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 30, 2018 20:26:04 GMT
Makes you wonder how Alfred became great Funnily enough stopping freedom of movement for europeans (the vikings) had something to do with it |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 30, 2018 20:32:06 GMT
Yes but we won't have any lettuces Tomatoes, wine , prosseco , chocolates, internet , fresh water ,etc etc etc We'll all be dead from super gonnorrhea to worry about it. Why, will French letters be banned? |
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 30, 2018 20:38:40 GMT
We'll all be dead from super gonnorrhea to worry about it. Why, will French letters be banned? Not banned just stuck in traffic at Calais |
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 30, 2018 21:19:23 GMT
Why, will French letters be banned? Not banned just stuck in traffic at Calais Why’s that French farmers on strike again |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 30, 2018 22:09:43 GMT
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 30, 2018 23:06:09 GMT
Another Minister resigns over May's deal. He was a Remainer but even he says the deal is shit.
I'm paraphrasing somewhat.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 1, 2018 6:12:32 GMT
Essential reading.
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 1, 2018 8:16:20 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Dec 1, 2018 8:44:06 GMT
Exactly , the vote was never about trade 👍 |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 1, 2018 9:21:18 GMT
"Passive member"
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2018 9:29:05 GMT
Could be worse they could of said flaccid member |
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Post by 4372 on Dec 1, 2018 9:42:03 GMT
Here is what doesn't make sense to me.The country has been in a recession for many years.
The government has promoted a programme of austerity on the back of that recession. People have lost jobs, and have endured reductions in wages and living conditions. Then they say that they voted for Brexit,even though it will likely make for more job insecurity and a continuation of lower standards of living.
(They claim, apparently in all seriousness,that they would willingly endure further hardship,rather than stay in the EU).
It is like they are doing the jobs of politicians for them. Politicians have always told people that there will be jam tomorrow,but not today,now people are telling it to themselves...
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2018 9:50:20 GMT
Here is what doesn't make sense to me.The country has been in a recession for many years. The government has promoted a programme of austerity on the back of that recession. People have lost jobs, and have endured reductions in wages and living conditions. Then they say that they voted for Brexit,even though it will likely make for more job insecurity and a continuation of lower standards of living. (They claim, apparently in all seriousness,that they would willingly endure further hardship,rather than stay in the EU). It is like they are doing the jobs of politicians for them. Politicians have always told people that there will be jam tomorrow,but not today,now people are telling it to themselves... Maybe the people are fed up of jam and realise it’s bad for there diabetes |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Dec 1, 2018 9:52:52 GMT
Here is what doesn't make sense to me.The country has been in a recession for many years. The government has promoted a programme of austerity on the back of that recession. People have lost jobs, and have endured reductions in wages and living conditions. Then they say that they voted for Brexit,even though it will likely make for more job insecurity and a continuation of lower standards of living. (They claim, apparently in all seriousness,that they would willingly endure further hardship,rather than stay in the EU). It is like they are doing the jobs of politicians for them. Politicians have always told people that there will be jam tomorrow,but not today,now people are telling it to themselves... The country is not in recession and hasn't been for many years. |
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and 2. Forecasts are always wrong so explaining why you are doing better than forecast is much more pleasant than explaining why you are doing worse than forecast. 
