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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 19, 2018 19:27:13 GMT
Funny how this Boris Johnson story breaks now, isn't it?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 19, 2018 20:24:18 GMT
For whatever reasons the state of our fishing industry doesn't seem right as an island
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 19, 2018 20:27:36 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 19, 2018 20:55:33 GMT
This is a pretty good summary of the Brexit wing of the Tory party, in my opinion: "In this narrative, a real Brexiter would have shown the gumption to get a good deal. We’ll never know, the Leavers wail, how things would have been with a true disciple in charge. Actually we have a very good idea, because we have had two years to watch the hardline Brexiters and assess their political acumen. Their record is an uninterrupted litany of cowardice, incompetence and blame shifting. For all the bluster, they have blinked, bottled or botched it at every turn." From: www.ft.com/content/15d51a5e-ebdf-11e8-8180-9cf212677a57 |
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Post by 4372 on Nov 19, 2018 21:36:29 GMT
Spot-On, that last post is RRP
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 19, 2018 21:41:25 GMT
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 19, 2018 21:43:52 GMT
Wouldn’t surprise me if May threw Gibraltar into the deal as well....she’s given up on lots of other areas so why would this bother her. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 0:54:26 GMT
Our nation is at a very serious crossroads, to state the obvious / He's absolutely bang on. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 6:49:41 GMT
Our nation is at a very serious crossroads, to state the obvious / Saw that on facebook Sadly common sense falls on deaf ears in this country |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 20, 2018 7:24:07 GMT
confidence vote?.... =general election....or a quick leadership challenge.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 20, 2018 7:55:42 GMT
confidence vote?.... =general election....or a quick leadership challenge. All coming together, isn't it? She had a majority, Corbyn was 20 points behind in the polls. There was absolutely no need for an election, now this. Brexit has been deliberately scuppered, and will be abandoned, like the working class in this country. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 20, 2018 8:37:14 GMT
confidence vote?.... =general election....or a quick leadership challenge. All coming together, isn't it? She had a majority, Corbyn was 20 points behind in the polls. There was absolutely no need for an election, now this. Brexit has been deliberately scuppered, and will be abandoned, like the working class in this country. I know there's unseen political forces in this country (and every country), but I can't see a scenario where the Tories wilfully give up power. They are power mad, and the whole reason for the unnecessary election was to get more of it. It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the latter from her than the former! |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 20, 2018 8:57:52 GMT
All coming together, isn't it? She had a majority, Corbyn was 20 points behind in the polls. There was absolutely no need for an election, now this. Brexit has been deliberately scuppered, and will be abandoned, like the working class in this country. I know there's unseen political forces in this country (and every country), but I can't see a scenario where the Tories wilfully give up power. They are power mad, and the whole reason for the unnecessary election was to get more of it. It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the former from her than the latter! I actually nearly put in my post, conspiracy, or incompetence! I stand by the abandonment of the working class bit though, and the way that the referendum result isn't being honoured, especially by Labour. At least May's fuck up partially addresses freedom of movement. Labour's stance seems to be "we can't decide, so we'll let you have another go at it"! 😁 |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 20, 2018 9:20:15 GMT
"Spain's prime minister has said his country will vote against the draft Brexit withdrawal agreement if the text on Gibraltar is not changed.
As of today, if there are no changes with respect to Gibraltar, Spain will vote no to the agreement on Brexit," Pedro Sanchez says."
Awkward. The EU have said there can be no changes to the WA, obviously to thwart May. The genie's out of the bottle if Spain are allowed to make changes.
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Post by yeokel on Nov 20, 2018 9:23:00 GMT
All coming together, isn't it? She had a majority, Corbyn was 20 points behind in the polls. There was absolutely no need for an election, now this. Brexit has been deliberately scuppered, and will be abandoned, like the working class in this country. I know there's unseen political forces in this country (and every country), but I can't see a scenario where the Tories wilfully give up power. They are power mad, and the whole reason for the unnecessary election was to get more of it. It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the former from her than the latter! “ It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the former from her than the latter!” You really think she is a political genius? I’d hate to see an example of who you think is “fucking useless” then. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 20, 2018 9:31:08 GMT
"Spain's prime minister has said his country will vote against the draft Brexit withdrawal agreement if the text on Gibraltar is not changed.
As of today, if there are no changes with respect to Gibraltar, Spain will vote no to the agreement on Brexit," Pedro Sanchez says."Awkward. The EU have said there can be no changes to the WA, obviously to thwart May. The genie's out of the bottle if Spain are allowed to make changes. Here’s may’s chance to get out of the mess she’s in unless the Eu stays true to form and blackmails the Spanish government to change its mind |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 20, 2018 9:42:06 GMT
"Spain's prime minister has said his country will vote against the draft Brexit withdrawal agreement if the text on Gibraltar is not changed.
As of today, if there are no changes with respect to Gibraltar, Spain will vote no to the agreement on Brexit," Pedro Sanchez says."Awkward. The EU have said there can be no changes to the WA, obviously to thwart May. The genie's out of the bottle if Spain are allowed to make changes. Here’s may’s chance to get out of the mess she’s in unless the Eu stays true to form and blackmails the Spanish government to change its mind I think I read somewhere the vote did not have to be unanimous from the 27 so they'll let Spain go against. Probably find something for them in the yet to be negotiated Fishery Policy. |
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Post by yeokel on Nov 20, 2018 9:50:31 GMT
"Spain's prime minister has said his country will vote against the draft Brexit withdrawal agreement if the text on Gibraltar is not changed.
As of today, if there are no changes with respect to Gibraltar, Spain will vote no to the agreement on Brexit," Pedro Sanchez says."Awkward. The EU have said there can be no changes to the WA, obviously to thwart May. The genie's out of the bottle if Spain are allowed to make changes. " ....Spain will vote no to the agreement on Brexit" Great. They will be doing us a favour then! Perhaps Spain should be setting a good example by resolving some of the territorial disputes it has with Morocco? An example being The Alhucemas Islands which are literally a few hundred feet from the Moroccan coast but remain as Spanish territory. Resolving that dispute might also lead to a resolution of the problem of the hundreds of illegal immigrants who use these islands as a back door for their entry in to the EU via Spain. Once they have sorted their various territorial disputes out with Morocco, perhaps they could come back and give us a lecture about Gibraltar but, until then, Fuck 'em! |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 20, 2018 9:59:37 GMT
I know there's unseen political forces in this country (and every country), but I can't see a scenario where the Tories wilfully give up power. They are power mad, and the whole reason for the unnecessary election was to get more of it. It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the former from her than the latter! “ It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the former from her than the latter!” You really think she is a political genius? I’d hate to see an example of who you think is “fucking useless” then. Bollocks - got it the wrong way round  Will edit it now for fear of being sectioned. To be clear, I think she's fucking useless. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 20, 2018 10:20:32 GMT
“ It would also mean Theresa May is political genius, and not fucking useless. I've seen more of the former from her than the latter!” You really think she is a political genius? I’d hate to see an example of who you think is “fucking useless” then. Bollocks - got it the wrong way round Will edit it now for fear of being sectioned. To be clear, I think she's fucking useless. What do you reckon will be the outcome of all this, Rip? |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 20, 2018 10:31:26 GMT
Here’s may’s chance to get out of the mess she’s in unless the Eu stays true to form and blackmails the Spanish government to change its mind I think I read somewhere the vote did not have to be unanimous from the 27 so they'll let Spain go against. Probably find something for them in the yet to be negotiated Fishery Policy. As if by magic |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 20, 2018 11:02:34 GMT
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 20, 2018 11:15:37 GMT
The sad thing is, Huddy, if Labour hadn't fucked up on immigration so much(admitted by Jack Straw among others), I don't think Brexit would have happened at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2018 13:55:05 GMT
I think I read somewhere the vote did not have to be unanimous from the 27 so they'll let Spain go against. Probably find something for them in the yet to be negotiated Fishery Policy. As if by magic We should tell France to sod off over rights to UK waters. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 20, 2018 14:15:11 GMT
Bollocks - got it the wrong way round Will edit it now for fear of being sectioned. To be clear, I think she's fucking useless. What do you reckon will be the outcome of all this, Rip? I can't see beyond another vote - either a general election or a People's Vote. Everything else seems to result in a stalemate, as even if the Withdrawal Agreement is passed in the Commons (which looks very unlikely) then can you really see May's government negotiating an acceptable future deal with the EU that will appease enough people (either MPs or Joe Public)? I can't. If the Withdrawal Agreement would pass, the government will limp on. If it doesn't, I have no idea what will happen and I've yet to see a single person state with any sort of confidence that they know what will happen. How do you think it will go? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 20, 2018 15:03:56 GMT
What do you reckon will be the outcome of all this, Rip? I can't see beyond another vote - either a general election or a People's Vote. Everything else seems to result in a stalemate, as even if the Withdrawal Agreement is passed in the Commons (which looks very unlikely) then can you really see May's government negotiating an acceptable future deal with the EU that will appease enough people (either MPs or Joe Public)? I can't. If the Withdrawal Agreement would pass, the government will limp on. If it doesn't, I have no idea what will happen and I've yet to see a single person state with any sort of confidence that they know what will happen. How do you think it will go? A People's Vote, which I think is disgraceful, because we were promised that the result would be honoured. I know people who are livid about the thought of it. People who would normally vote Labour. Unlike some on here, immigration was a huge factor for them and I. At least May's deal did something to address this, whereas Corbyn seems to be going back to his "No upper level of immigration" mantra that led to Labour heartlands like Stoke voting for Brexit. To me, he's let down the very people Labour are supposed to support. Overall, I think the whole thing has been handled terribly. I think it's been deliberate, and now the only choices are going to be soft Brexit or Remain. In fairness, the hard Brexiteers seem to be bottling it, so that looks a forlorn hope. I honestly believe a no deal or better deal was achievable with the right approach and personnel. Why didn't they take the Canada deal that Tusk says was available? I don't buy this hard border stuff; why would Kate Hoey say it was bogus given her background? To answer your question, there will be a second vote and Remain will win. The EU will get it's way again. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 20, 2018 16:04:44 GMT
I can't see beyond another vote - either a general election or a People's Vote. Everything else seems to result in a stalemate, as even if the Withdrawal Agreement is passed in the Commons (which looks very unlikely) then can you really see May's government negotiating an acceptable future deal with the EU that will appease enough people (either MPs or Joe Public)? I can't. If the Withdrawal Agreement would pass, the government will limp on. If it doesn't, I have no idea what will happen and I've yet to see a single person state with any sort of confidence that they know what will happen. How do you think it will go? A People's Vote, which I think is disgraceful, because we were promised that the result would be honoured. I know people who are livid about the thought of it. People who would normally vote Labour. Unlike some on here, immigration was a huge factor for them and I. At least May's deal did something to address this, whereas Corbyn seems to be going back to his "No upper level of immigration" mantra that led to Labour heartlands like Stoke voting for Brexit. To me, he's let down the very people Labour are supposed to support. Overall, I think the whole thing has been handled terribly. I think it's been deliberate, and now the only choices are going to be soft Brexit or Remain. In fairness, the hard Brexiteers seem to be bottling it, so that looks a forlorn hope. I honestly believe a no deal or better deal was achievable with the right approach and personnel. Why didn't they take the Canada deal that Tusk says was available? I don't buy this hard border stuff; why would Kate Hoey say it was bogus given her background? To answer your question, there will be a second vote and Remain will win. The EU will get it's way again. Don’t be sure that remain would win there will only be a binary option In or out A lot will depend on how the Eu allows us to remain I wouldn’t be to sure they will allow us to keep the rebate And then you have the Eu army they let out of the bag |
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Post by yeokel on Nov 20, 2018 16:37:19 GMT
A People's Vote, which I think is disgraceful, because we were promised that the result would be honoured. I know people who are livid about the thought of it. People who would normally vote Labour. Unlike some on here, immigration was a huge factor for them and I. At least May's deal did something to address this, whereas Corbyn seems to be going back to his "No upper level of immigration" mantra that led to Labour heartlands like Stoke voting for Brexit. To me, he's let down the very people Labour are supposed to support. Overall, I think the whole thing has been handled terribly. I think it's been deliberate, and now the only choices are going to be soft Brexit or Remain. In fairness, the hard Brexiteers seem to be bottling it, so that looks a forlorn hope. I honestly believe a no deal or better deal was achievable with the right approach and personnel. Why didn't they take the Canada deal that Tusk says was available? I don't buy this hard border stuff; why would Kate Hoey say it was bogus given her background? To answer your question, there will be a second vote and Remain will win. The EU will get it's way again. Don’t be sure that remain would win there will only be a binary option In or out A lot will depend on how the Eu allows us to remain I wouldn’t be to sure they will allow us to keep the rebate And then you have the Eu army they let out of the bag Shhhhh - don't say it too loudly. We don't want to upset Oggy. This news hasn't reached the corner of the fluffy, spangley EU that he inhabits in his head. Let's not spoil the forthcoming Christmas season for him. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 20, 2018 17:05:14 GMT
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Post by pearo on Nov 20, 2018 17:24:06 GMT
A People's Vote, which I think is disgraceful, because we were promised that the result would be honoured. I know people who are livid about the thought of it. People who would normally vote Labour. Unlike some on here, immigration was a huge factor for them and I. At least May's deal did something to address this, whereas Corbyn seems to be going back to his "No upper level of immigration" mantra that led to Labour heartlands like Stoke voting for Brexit. To me, he's let down the very people Labour are supposed to support. Overall, I think the whole thing has been handled terribly. I think it's been deliberate, and now the only choices are going to be soft Brexit or Remain. In fairness, the hard Brexiteers seem to be bottling it, so that looks a forlorn hope. I honestly believe a no deal or better deal was achievable with the right approach and personnel. Why didn't they take the Canada deal that Tusk says was available? I don't buy this hard border stuff; why would Kate Hoey say it was bogus given her background? To answer your question, there will be a second vote and Remain will win. The EU will get it's way again. Don’t be sure that remain would win there will only be a binary option In or out A lot will depend on how the Eu allows us to remain I wouldn’t be to sure they will allow us to keep the rebate And then you have the Eu army they let out of the bag Remain wil win the 2nd vote, should there be one, because there will only be one Remain option to vote for but various leave optoins, deal, no deal, backstop etc, thus the combined leave vote may still be higher but in the context of a vote none of them alone will beat remain. |
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Will edit it now for fear of being sectioned.
