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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 10:35:41 GMT
There was a bill earlier to install EU law into uk law such as rights etc. This meant that half the deal was already done. A no deal Brexit is better than a shit deal and it may turn out to be our best option. The eu negotiations have gone for blood. We should have walked away from the table. A no deal Brexit does not deal with the Irish Border. It completely ignores it. A no deal is the worst possible option. Pure fantasy Here you go.... The Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland post-Brexit - ERG |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 10:36:35 GMT
That's not a real name. I'm not having it. Are people just making up names of ministers that have resigned now? I have never heard of her, I admit! Junior Minister, worked in DexEU. Big Brexiteer. Nearly walked after Chequers. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 10:37:49 GMT
I'm struggling to see an acceptable conclusion to this without a referendum to gauge some sort of public opinion on how we leave the EU. First a vote on May's deal, and if it's rejected then a vote on a soft or hard Brexit. With no 'Remain' being on the ballot paper it shouldn't be that unappealing to most leave voters, and would not see a re-run of the original referendum. The extreme version of that would be the two options being 'No deal Brexit' or 'Remain', but I personally wouldn't be in favour of that. The big spanner in the works is that we're now short of time, mainly because the spanners in the government have wasted the last two-and-a-half years pushing ahead with an idea that seems to please no-one. If there is a second referendum, it should be on the type of Brexit, not a re-run as you say. I can't bear the thought of people moaning their bags off for 2 years and then getting their way. It sets a really bad precedent. On the deal, May said last night that free movement would end. Is this true? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 10:45:15 GMT
Wonder what Jezza's plan is? A soft Brexit or no Brexit at all? Would it be as bad as May's? Let's hear it, Jezza!
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 15, 2018 10:48:07 GMT
Suella Braverman resigns. That's not a real name. I'm not having it. Are people just making up names of ministers that have resigned now? Ben Dover and Phil McCavity, Scottish Conservatives, also gone! Not prepared to take EU Deal!  |
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Post by santy on Nov 15, 2018 10:51:03 GMT
He doesn't really have to offer a plan does he? In some regards it would be foolish to do so. It's not something labour could ever be pitching talks of "if we win the next election we will do it this way" but I don't think a second referendum should be held either way.
I'd say they need to sit down and have a serious discussion and decide whether its truly for the best or not to leave with the deal we have and have a vote on it as MP's. They are the only ones who will know the implications for their individual constituencies and they're the only ones who will get the full information without the degree of spin that gets put on it when presenting it to the public.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 15, 2018 10:56:37 GMT
I'm struggling to see an acceptable conclusion to this without a referendum to gauge some sort of public opinion on how we leave the EU. First a vote on May's deal, and if it's rejected then a vote on a soft or hard Brexit. With no 'Remain' being on the ballot paper it shouldn't be that unappealing to most leave voters, and would not see a re-run of the original referendum. The extreme version of that would be the two options being 'No deal Brexit' or 'Remain', but I personally wouldn't be in favour of that. The big spanner in the works is that we're now short of time, mainly because the spanners in the government have wasted the last two-and-a-half years pushing ahead with an idea that seems to please no-one. If there is a second referendum, it should be on the type of Brexit, not a re-run as you say. I can't bear the thought of people moaning their bags off for 2 years and then getting their way. It sets a really bad precedent. On the deal, May said last night that free movement would end. Is this true? No idea about the freedom of movement - May says it will end, and as of yet I've not seen anyone dispute it. That leads me to think it will, but I haven't quite had time to flick through the 500-odd pages to find out if she's telling porkies  |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 10:59:17 GMT
Wonder what Jezza's plan is? A soft Brexit or no Brexit at all? Would it be as bad as May's? Let's hear it, Jezza! He's at the box now mumbling like a good 'un. May's just chewed him up and spat him out with ease. He complains there's no detail to May's plan with a 585 page document in front of him. He says her plan is not delivering for the country where his plan is to staying in "a" customs union and have 'full' access to the Single Market. He's just plodding through some pre-written waffling speech. It's obvious that Labour really has no plan. At this stage, saying 'everything is on the table' is bollocks. The Brexit world has moved on. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 11:00:12 GMT
Scotland not mentioned in the deal. It's not all bad, then.
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Post by M on Nov 15, 2018 11:06:33 GMT
Has it been confirmed yet if we are indeed taking back control?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 11:11:31 GMT
Has it been confirmed yet if we are indeed taking back control? Has it bollocks. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 11:25:31 GMT
So May's will be gone soon. Dodds not convinced she's listened to the DUP so that's the supply and confidence arrangement goneLabour saying it's not a deal they can support and Tory resignations are all enough for this deal not to pass through the HoC. After that she has nothing else. She'll step down or be challenged before that vote. Who then? Boris  EDIT: JRM just put the absolute boot into May. Ouch! She's almost crying. |
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Post by M on Nov 15, 2018 11:30:16 GMT
Has it been confirmed yet if we are indeed taking back control? Has it bollocks. She has however said Tory MPs basically have to accept it or take no deal (which won't happen) or No Brexit at all (obviously her favourite outcome). I feel for the voters who keep falling for her lies and voted for them |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 11:30:59 GMT
You're entitled to your view and none vote I didn't vote because I didn't know what I was voting for and that seems to be very obviously the case now. No, you did right. If you don't know what you're doing ....do nothing |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 11:34:25 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 15, 2018 11:39:11 GMT
If you don’t know how the eu works and passes laws then you don’t know what the remain vote was for. I do, so I did know what it was for. The status quo. The current way of operating to continue. That’s doesn’t mean i know the future. It does mean i know what the current systems in place are. The same, quite demonstratively, cannot be said of the leave vote Anyone who understood the issues knew that Northern Ireland would be the sticking point. I remember saying it before the Referendum. Even politicians who voted leave didn't understand the significance or pretended not to. So for the hard of thinking..There can be no hard border on the Island of Ireland and that means some form of customs arrangement and that means some form of common rule book and that means the EU has the right to tell us the terms and how long we stay in for. Either way the EU takes back control. The border of ireland is an issue the pretending there is no solution to it is entirely confected, Ireland have accepted there is a technological solution, one of the EU solutions is a border in the irish sea using technology is this some sort of weird technology that only works in water  |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 11:39:26 GMT
Word is that Rees-Mogg's letter has gone in. As Chairman of the ERG I can't see how others won't follow suit. The no confidence vote must be on now.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 15, 2018 11:39:53 GMT
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 11:45:19 GMT
Anyone who understood the issues knew that Northern Ireland would be the sticking point. I remember saying it before the Referendum. Even politicians who voted leave didn't understand the significance or pretended not to. So for the hard of thinking..There can be no hard border on the Island of Ireland and that means some form of customs arrangement and that means some form of common rule book and that means the EU has the right to tell us the terms and how long we stay in for. Either way the EU takes back control. The border of ireland is an issue the pretending there is no solution to it is entirely confected, Ireland have accepted there is a technological solution, one of the EU solutions is a border in the irish sea using technology is this some sort of weird technology that only works in water This guy is worth a follow about the Ireland border thing. Basically you're correct. The EU's has tech solutions that can be used for goods between mainland UK and NI but somehow these same processes are not acceptable to the EU for trade over the NI-Ireland border |
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Post by PotterLog on Nov 15, 2018 11:52:55 GMT
Lets pretend that this is a sensible idea, and if a further referendum were had to get the right result, it resulted in a 52-48 vote to remain. What happens then, do we have a best of 3? No, we were told this was a once in a generation vote, and if we look at history theres not another one due for forty odd years. All of this was predicted in the leaflet that the government spent millions of pounds posting through everyones letterbox. Anyone who didn't understand what they were voting for us a fecking idiot, and the people who say this are generally remoaners who want another referendum. Well candidly they are. That's exactly why we have a system of elected representation in this country which has served us for centuries. All those blustering Brexit fools who told the British public that the EU needed us more than we needed them, and the deal would be the easiest in history and we'd get our money back. Then there's all those naive business leaders and hedge fund managers who thought the dispossessed of our industrial towns were voting with them for Britain to become a Singapore in the North Sea. We're losing power, influence and control. A bridge to nowhere. We're walking off a cliff in March  That’s about it. We have voted ourselves onto the precipice of an entirely avoidable abyss. *yay democracy* |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 15, 2018 11:54:11 GMT
Word is that Rees-Mogg's letter has gone in. As Chairman of the ERG I can't see how others won't follow suit. The no confidence vote must be on now. If he doesn't put himself forward for the leadership, then he continues his fine tradition of shithousing on his Prime Minister while not offering a single practical solution. Him and his like are the biggest obstacle to Brexit at the moment. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 11:57:40 GMT
Scotland not mentioned in the deal. It's not all bad, then. Read today Scotland not mentioned once. England mentioned 3 times. European Court of Justice mentioned 63 times |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 15, 2018 11:58:11 GMT
Wow I agree with Labour, May is delusional!  |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 12:01:33 GMT
Word is that Rees-Mogg's letter has gone in. As Chairman of the ERG I can't see how others won't follow suit. The no confidence vote must be on now. If he doesn't put himself forward for the leadership, then he continues his fine tradition of shithousing on his Prime Minister while not offering a single practical solution. Him and his like are the biggest obstacle to Brexit at the moment. This is the Northern Ireland suggestion from Rees-Mogg's European Research Group The Border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland post-Brexit Rees-Mogg also supports the Plan A+ proposed by Brexiteer's. He's also spoken at length re: No Deal and WTO. You're welcome. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 12:03:35 GMT
Word is that Rees-Mogg's letter has gone in. As Chairman of the ERG I can't see how others won't follow suit. The no confidence vote must be on now. If he doesn't put himself forward for the leadership, then he continues his fine tradition of shithousing on his Prime Minister while not offering a single practical solution. Him and his like are the biggest obstacle to Brexit at the moment. I agree. I voted for Brexit and Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson and the like have to stand up. The more I see of this, the more it looks like one big charade. I thought this from the start, as did others. Parliament never intended to leave, and their relish for a second referendum is gathering pace. If they really wanted Brexit, they would have set up a cross party team to achieve it. Instead they have gauged public opinion, and decided that they are now intelligent enough to make such a big decision. It's complete deception and cowardice. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 15, 2018 12:03:42 GMT
The British people have always been ahead of politicians on this issue, and it will be no good trying to pretend to them that this deal honours the result of the referendum when it is obvious to everyone it doesn’t. We have gone from no deal is better than a bad deal, to any deal is better than no deal.
I cannot defend this, and I cannot vote for this deal. I could not look my constituents in the eye were I to do that.
Esther McVey resignation letter.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 15, 2018 12:14:25 GMT
May is finished
The Tory party is finished
Brexit is also finished
A Labour Government is on the way.
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Post by Northy on Nov 15, 2018 12:20:10 GMT
May is finished The Tory party is finished Brexit is also finished A Labour Government is on the way. It will be a hung parliament with no overall majority, nobody in their right mind would vote for Corbyn, Abbott McDonnell etc. |
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Post by yeokel on Nov 15, 2018 12:21:03 GMT
May is finished The Tory party is finished Brexit is also finished A Labour Government is on the way.And then the whole country is finished. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 15, 2018 12:35:37 GMT
May is finished The Tory party is finished Brexit is also finished A Labour Government is on the way.And then the whole country is finished. Be interested to see what their plans for Brexit are. Virtually staying in, probably. Wonder if free movement would feature at all? |
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