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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 13, 2018 14:38:41 GMT
Oh dear...
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 13, 2018 15:21:13 GMT
So here it is from the old horses mouth herself. A "real" European Army. She name checks Juncker who's been calling for this for years. And all the Remainers are happy of course because they knew what they were voting for.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2018 15:29:54 GMT
So here it is from the old horses mouth herself. A "real" European Army. She name checks Juncker who's been calling for this for years. And all the Remainers are happy with this of course because they knew what they were voting for. Ever closer union.......and it is vital from the EU's perspective that we are in this.... I don't know at what point the Remainers will actually admit( to themselves) where a common currency, no borders, a single army, common policies are actually leading to. As you say Rog, as long as we all know what we are arguing about.I think it's power and sovereignty.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Nov 13, 2018 15:36:47 GMT
So here it is from the old horses mouth herself. A "real" European Army. She name checks Juncker who's been calling for this for years. And all the Remainers are happy with this of course because they knew what they were voting for. Staggering.... simply staggering. Surely the reasons that she has given is why ARRC was formed! A Shared resource, Shared ideas, shared training but still independent...
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 13, 2018 16:06:20 GMT
david Cameron should be tried for treason. this Brexit vote will end up splitting the united kingdom. the scots will want another chance to leave[and they will get it and rejoin the eu] same goes for wales and n.ireland, hell even communities will be asking for independence eg cornwall. allthis will inevitably lead to conflict is that what we really want in this day and age? great brittain was the finest country in the world and we have thrown it all away because the people stupidly believed the lies put out by Murdoch and his cronies. If Cameron’s alleged folly of a referendum results in a successful Scottish yes vote for independence Than he should be knighted for services to the country he will have delivered England a permanent Tory government and saved the country from rampant socialism Oh and it would save us a bob or two as well
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2018 16:12:48 GMT
So here it is from the old horses mouth herself. A "real" European Army. She name checks Juncker who's been calling for this for years. And all the Remainers are happy with this of course because they knew what they were voting for. Staggering.... simply staggering. Surely the reasons that she has given is why ARRC was formed! A Shared resource, Shared ideas, shared training but still independent... Were the electorate told a lie, a very important misleading lie?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 13, 2018 16:34:40 GMT
So the legal advice on May's Withdrawal Agreement is to be published following a threat to abstain from a vote by the ERG. Hopefully now we'll see if May and Oily Robbins were trying to lock us into a never ending 'backstop'.
If they were, I can't see that text passing Parliament and if that happens I can't see May surviving.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 13, 2018 16:46:45 GMT
So the legal advice on May's Withdrawal Agreement is to be published following a threat to abstain from a vote by the ERG. Hopefully now we'll see if May and Oily Robbins were trying to lock us into a never ending 'backstop'. If they were, I can't see that text passing Parliament and if that happens I can't see May surviving. A longer clip of the lies......mind ,it is also good to know that Elvis is not dead.
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Post by yeokel on Nov 13, 2018 16:48:08 GMT
Staggering.... simply staggering. Surely the reasons that she has given is why ARRC was formed! A Shared resource, Shared ideas, shared training but still independent... Were the electorate told a lie, a very important misleading lie? They (the Germans) have been building the beginnings of the European Army for the past few years. First, they have integrated a couple of Dutch Brigades into their joint force. And now have followed a Czech Brigade and a Romanian Brigade. Now, I’m sure Oggy and the rest of the EU apologists on here will tell us that this has nothing to do with an EU Army as there are no plans for such an organisation. But, to me, if it looks like an army, drills like an army and goes on exercises like an army – Then it’s an army! And if the Germans are in charge of it, it is potentially a very dangerous army. New EU (German) Army? - Link“ But this year, far from the headlines, Germany and two of its European allies, the Czech Republic and Romania, quietly took a radical step down a path toward something that looks like an EU army while avoiding the messy politics associated with it:
They announced the integration of their armed forces. Romania’s entire military won’t join the Bundeswehr, nor will the Czech armed forces become a mere German subdivision. But in the next several months each country will integrate one brigade into the German armed forces: Romania’s 81st Mechanized Brigade will join the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division, while the Czech 4th Rapid Deployment Brigade, which has served in Afghanistan and Kosovo and is considered the Czech Army’s spearhead force, will become part of the Germans’ 10th Armored Division.
In doing so, they’ll follow in the footsteps of two Dutch brigades, one of which has already joined the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division and another that has been integrated into the Bundeswehr’s 1st Armored Division. According to Carlo Masala, a professor of international politics at the University of the Bundeswehr in Munich, “The German government is showing that it’s willing to proceed with European military integration” — even if others on the continent aren’t yet.” Change is coming!
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 13, 2018 16:49:28 GMT
So the legal advice on May's Withdrawal Agreement is to be published following a threat to abstain from a vote by the ERG. Hopefully now we'll see if May and Oily Robbins were trying to lock us into a never ending 'backstop'. If they were, I can't see that text passing Parliament and if that happens I can't see May surviving. It seems we are now approaching a conclusion. It's going to be interesting to see how exactly the circle has been squared. One thing is certain - it won't please everybody. The question is will it please enough people.
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Post by Miles Offside on Nov 13, 2018 17:03:28 GMT
Unless I'm mistaken, the EU has already been reformed several times. In fact the creation of the EU (which we didn't vote to join) was effectively a re-forming of the Common Market (which we did). And wasn't the original clause about Free Movement of labour reformed to the free movement of people? That's what triggered mass migration. It also reformed by introducing the euro and creating a monetary union amongst many of its member states. Only two European states asked their populations if they wanted to give up their national currency. The rest didn't ask. The EU has also reformed every time it has added new member states. And many in the EU - certainly including Macron, and probably Merkel - would like to bring in additional reforms such as making the euro and Schengen compulsory, by introducing a Finance Minister and possibly a single European army. The current situation is a mess. But while it's true that they didn't call the referendum that led to Brexit, it's certainly the case that it suits them very much to make our exit as difficult and messy as possible, or try to frustrate it. That's not the kind of reform that Cameron was alluding to though is it? All the reforms you've mentioned there are taking the EU down the path of ever closer union which is their ultimate goal and which Britain has never been comfortable with. The EU oligarchy have demonstrated that they'll pass any reforms that suit them. As for not offering Cameron any concessions, why would they when most people at the time, like the bookies who had Remain at 1/4 on, expected the Remain campaign to win?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 17:04:17 GMT
I'm beinning to quite like Kate Hoey. From the Guardian..... Guardian link" The Labour MP Kate Hoey, one of the few Brexiters in the parliamentary Labour party, says in an article for LabourList that she will not vote for a Brexit deal that panders to the Irish government’s demands.The Irish government, in cahoots with the EU, has deliberately made the border an issue and unfortunately our prime minister and her officials have fallen for it completely by agreeing to a backstop that would see NI being treated differently to the rest of the UK. By implying that the peace process is threatened by a hard border, even though no-one has said they will build it, is scaremongering of the worst kind. The EU wants to keep us locked in to their regulations and rules: the Irish government is playing hardball even though it would suffer most if the UK were to leave on WTO rules. The Irish PM has behaved rather shamefully with some of his rhetoric and is clearly intent on becoming a future EU commissioner ...
Leo Varadkar’s government has erected and maintained a hard border against Northern Ireland fishermen in the hope that this will exert some kind of influence on the UK during the wider Brexit negotiations. Our UK government claims to be maintaining the moral high ground on these issues, but the question arises: how long does the UK keep to the moral high ground when dealing with an Irish government that is taking our goodwill for granted?
When will the prime minister speak out and condemn this behaviour? When will she start speaking out in support of British citizens rather than seeming to care more about Irish views? It is this hypocrisy from Dublin that makes it certain that I and many other MPs will not support an agreement with the EU that panders to this kind of behaviour.This is significant because until now it had been assumed that Hoey was likely to vote with the government on withdrawal agreement because she has defied that Labour whip and backed the Tories on Brexit issues before." Telling it like it is! She did on LBC last night, as well. All over Adonis like a rash.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 17:07:27 GMT
So the legal advice on May's Withdrawal Agreement is to be published following a threat to abstain from a vote by the ERG. Hopefully now we'll see if May and Oily Robbins were trying to lock us into a never ending 'backstop'. If they were, I can't see that text passing Parliament and if that happens I can't see May surviving. It seems we are now approaching a conclusion. It's going to be interesting to see how exactly the circle has been squared. One thing is certain - it won't please everybody. The question is will it please enough people. I very much doubt it. I'm not even sure if it was meant to.
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Post by Miles Offside on Nov 13, 2018 17:33:10 GMT
I've said on here before, but it's worth repeating, probably the best way out of this Brexit mess is for us to remain in the EEA and apply to join EFTA.
According to last Sunday's Telegraph we would still legally be members of the EEA after Brexit as we've never passed the required separate legislation to leave.
Christopher Booker did an excellent article on this which said - EEA / EFTA membership would mean freedom of movement would continue, but we would be able to impose some restrictions. We would continue trading with the EU as we do now. We would have to follow only around 25% of EU laws (the ones we would probably happily comply with anyway) and we would be free to agree free trade deals with other countries.
Having another vote on the terms of Brexit looks on the face of it to be a reasonable position. But what would the questions be? If the choices are binary ie (1) "May's deal" or (2) "Remain", then there are probably millions that wouldn't want either option. But if (3) "Leave without a deal" was added then the "Leave" vote would be divided and Remain could win with, say, 34%.
That could make a travesty of democracy as 52% had already voted to Leave.
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Post by Gods on Nov 13, 2018 17:38:19 GMT
Yes, they are reporting Terry May has struck a deal.
So it will be over to the MP's to see what their pain threshold is.
Bad deal? No deal? Not much wrong with the good deal we had before this pantomime started IMHO.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 17:54:25 GMT
Boris not impressed, apparently.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 13, 2018 18:04:25 GMT
It's a bit of a long thread....
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 13, 2018 18:05:23 GMT
I've got the shorter version of Merkel's speech
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 13, 2018 18:10:00 GMT
It's a bit of a long thread.... Well I got to point 1 and I'll be stopping there if this is the level of janet and john analysis provided "Steris PLC, a company with $2.6 billion in annual revenue, is planning to redomicile from the UK to Ireland due to Brexit. What that means is that, as an Irish company, the Irish tax authorities will collect its taxes going forward and not HMRC." I'm afraid this is just bollocks tax is paid where the profit is made do you actually think BP as a british company pays no tax on its US operations
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 18:13:03 GMT
I've got the shorter version of Merkel's speech That'll be the eu army remain said was a lie and will never happen... Hmm who lied?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 18:24:08 GMT
I've got the shorter version of Merkel's speech That'll be the eu army remain said was a lie and will never happen... Hmm who lied? Pisser! Where is the outrage at this? Remainers didn't know what they were voting for!
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 13, 2018 18:30:14 GMT
That'll be the eu army remain said was a lie and will never happen... Hmm who lied? Pisser! Where is the outrage at this? Remainers didn't know what they were voting for! Come on you pair, so what that Junker, Macron & Merkel have told us there will be an EU army, this doesn't mean anything. Oggy told us there wont be one & he has shown on here over the last few years he's bang on the pulse of what the EU stands for! So who do you believe on the EU's future? The head honcho along with the leaders of it's two biggest & most powerful countries, or some lawyer (snigger) from Cornwall?
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Post by boothenboy75 on Nov 13, 2018 18:30:19 GMT
Days after commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 and with survivors of WW2 still with us, a British PM is about to try and give away our self determination to a foreign power. Shameful stuff.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 18:33:40 GMT
Days after commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 and with survivors of WW2 still with us, a British PM is about to try and give away our self determination to a foreign power. Shameful stuff. "Brexit means.... something else".
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Post by Clayton Wood on Nov 13, 2018 18:41:32 GMT
Think I've just worked out how to get around customs checks and the backstop. Get each illegal migrant to bring in something each.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 18:48:16 GMT
Days after commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 and with survivors of WW2 still with us, a British PM is about to try and give away our self determination to a foreign power. Shameful stuff. And Macron slags off two of our allies in the Second World War. Maybe Merkel wants more living space?
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 13, 2018 19:03:47 GMT
That'll be the eu army remain said was a lie and will never happen... Hmm who lied? Pisser! Where is the outrage at this? Remainers didn't know what they were voting for! I voted for things to stay as they are. The UK would have had a veto on plans for an EU army and has said it would not be part of an EU army. fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/
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Post by yeokel on Nov 13, 2018 19:07:33 GMT
Think I've just worked out how to get around customs checks and the backstop. Get each illegal migrant to bring in something each. You'll need a big warehouse.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Nov 13, 2018 19:12:53 GMT
Days after commemorating the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 and with survivors of WW2 still with us, a British PM is about to try and give away our self determination to a foreign power. Shameful stuff. "Brexit means.... something else". As an ardent leaver, this deal looks worse than staying in, how any PM can even pretend that this is good deal beggars belief. Self determination is a basic principle that should be a given for every population on the planet, and she's about to give ours away as she lies that we're taking back control. >:D
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 13, 2018 19:32:03 GMT
Get ready for the second referendum. Unless the deal is so pro EU that even Labour back it. What a fit up it all sounds.
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