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Post by felonious on Nov 4, 2018 16:25:10 GMT
Successive governments have always been disingenuous over the EU. Why would they stop now over a vote that they don't like? After all other countries in the EU have had to have second votes to make sure they get it "right".
The BBC are reporting another wave of businessmen asking for a second referendum. I think they should give them one. In 40 years time.
If anybody was disingenuous it was the leave campaign. Funny how you want these “corrupt” governments to have the ability to strips rights from workers and deregulate our food, our products we use, the environmental laws companies have to stick to and our employment rights. That’s pretty much all the EU legislates over (and only in restricted areas of these). Surely if our government is corrupt, they will do whatever to please the richest, in other words screw the masses. I don’t think leave voters understand how good it is to be working class in the EU compared to the working class in the vast majority of the rest of the world. What exactly is disingenuous about offering referenda pre election and then not following through once in power. It creates a level of distrust which results in the result that we got in the Brexit vote. That, allied to failed UK politicians going on to earn a packet in Brussels afterwards. It's a good job I'm not cynical otherwise I might think of it as "reward".
Out of interest how much do you make out of the EU?
It's probably always been better to be working class in Europe even before the Common Market.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Nov 4, 2018 16:57:14 GMT
Successive governments have always been disingenuous over the EU. Why would they stop now over a vote that they don't like? After all other countries in the EU have had to have second votes to make sure they get it "right".
The BBC are reporting another wave of businessmen asking for a second referendum. I think they should give them one. In 40 years time.
If anybody was disingenuous it was the leave campaign. Funny how you want these “corrupt” governments to have the ability to strips rights from workers and deregulate our food, our products we use, the environmental laws companies have to stick to and our employment rights. That’s pretty much all the EU legislates over (and only in restricted areas of these). Surely if our government is corrupt, they will do whatever to please the richest, in other words screw the masses. I don’t think leave voters understand how good it is to be working class in the EU compared to the working class in the vast majority of the rest of the world. Ask some of them why they think that way. Maybe they have first hand experience of being shafted at work because of a massive influx of Eastern European workers? The EU has been party to a huge screwing of the masses. That's why working class people voted for Brexit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 4, 2018 17:14:39 GMT
If anybody was disingenuous it was the leave campaign. Funny how you want these “corrupt” governments to have the ability to strips rights from workers and deregulate our food, our products we use, the environmental laws companies have to stick to and our employment rights. That’s pretty much all the EU legislates over (and only in restricted areas of these). Surely if our government is corrupt, they will do whatever to please the richest, in other words screw the masses. I don’t think leave voters understand how good it is to be working class in the EU compared to the working class in the vast majority of the rest of the world. What exactly is disingenuous about offering referenda pre election and then not following through once in power. It creates a level of distrust which results in the result that we got in the Brexit vote. That, allied to failed UK politicians going on to earn a packet in Brussels afterwards. It's a good job I'm not cynical otherwise I might think of it as "reward".
Out of interest how much do you make out of the EU?
It's probably always been better to be working class in Europe even before the Common Market.
We all make a good amount from the EU. The Tories have U turned on loads of their last 3 manifestoes, so why not on this as well? Surely trust is low already from all the other U turns. If a board of a company, or trustees of a charity, were actively pursuing a policy that all their own reports said will be bad forthe company or charity, they would be the potential for criminal charges. The government don’t think brexit is in our interest, the house of commons don’t either, neither do the Lords (we don’t know about the Queen) and even the public are at best split down the middle about it and may well vote very, very differently to last time if allowed the chance (but the self proclaiming democratic loving leave voters are too scared to put that to the test). So why on earth are we doing it? It is total madness!
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Post by felonious on Nov 4, 2018 17:20:43 GMT
What exactly is disingenuous about offering referenda pre election and then not following through once in power. It creates a level of distrust which results in the result that we got in the Brexit vote. That, allied to failed UK politicians going on to earn a packet in Brussels afterwards. It's a good job I'm not cynical otherwise I might think of it as "reward".
Out of interest how much do you make out of the EU?
It's probably always been better to be working class in Europe even before the Common Market.
We all make a good amount from the EU. The Tories have U turned on loads of their last 3 manifestoes, so why not on this as well? Surely trust is low already from all the other U turns. If a board of a company, or trustees of a charity, were actively pursuing a policy that all their own reports said will be bad forthe company or charity, they would be the potential for criminal charges. The government don’t think brexit is in our interest, the house of commons don’t either, neither do the Lords (we don’t know about the Queen) and even the public are at best split down the middle about it and may well vote very, very differently to last time if allowed the chance (but the self proclaiming democratic loving leave voters are too scared to put that to the test). So why on earth are we doing it? It is total madness! Don't forget Labour and it's EU loving PM Blair. It's not just the Tories Oggy.
The Democratic loving leave voters have waited 40 years for a vote without kicking off and accepting democracy over that period. Contrast that with your lot.
There's politicians and invested parties making a fair amount of money out of the EU. You'll never get the Kinnock clan saying a bad word about it.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 4, 2018 17:27:23 GMT
If anybody was disingenuous it was the leave campaign. Funny how you want these “corrupt” governments to have the ability to strips rights from workers and deregulate our food, our products we use, the environmental laws companies have to stick to and our employment rights. That’s pretty much all the EU legislates over (and only in restricted areas of these). Surely if our government is corrupt, they will do whatever to please the richest, in other words screw the masses. I don’t think leave voters understand how good it is to be working class in the EU compared to the working class in the vast majority of the rest of the world. Ask some of them why they think that way. Maybe they have first hand experience of being shafted at work because of a massive influx of Eastern European workers? The EU has been party to a huge screwing of the masses. That's why working class people voted for Brexit. Well they haven’t reduced wages significantly (as all studies show). The places with higher immigration levels voted remain and the areas with the least voted leave. So leave voters generally haven’t been that impacted by EU immigrants as there simply aren’t that many in leave voting areas rather than remain voting areas. Our government is to blame on the disparity of wealth. Austerity and low taxation of the wealthiest (2 areas not legislated over by the EU) have screwed the working classes. The lack of social mobility here is not caused by the EU. It is caused by our own government. Our government ignores the housing crisis (another UK government issue and not an area the EU legislates over). Our government continues to pump billions into London and leaves former industrial areas (Cornwall, the North-East, place like Stoke too) to struggle with no or very little investment and so very few decent jobs are available. Again, that’s nothing to do with the EU. In fact the EU heavily invests in Cornwall and parts of Wales and our government does nothing. EU migrants don’t tend to move to those areas as there aren’t as many jobs. Our government’s choice to not control EU immigration has also not helped. The reasons that led to the worling class predominantly voting for Brexit were caused and exacerbated by our own government. But the right wing press find it so easy to blame foreigners. And the workers rights, consumer rights, competition laws, environmental laws etc etc all are factual evidence of the tremedous emphasis the EU puts on regulating big businesses compared with the rest of the world. That is for the benefit of workers and consumers (including working classes).
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 4, 2018 17:30:24 GMT
We all make a good amount from the EU. The Tories have U turned on loads of their last 3 manifestoes, so why not on this as well? Surely trust is low already from all the other U turns. If a board of a company, or trustees of a charity, were actively pursuing a policy that all their own reports said will be bad forthe company or charity, they would be the potential for criminal charges. The government don’t think brexit is in our interest, the house of commons don’t either, neither do the Lords (we don’t know about the Queen) and even the public are at best split down the middle about it and may well vote very, very differently to last time if allowed the chance (but the self proclaiming democratic loving leave voters are too scared to put that to the test). So why on earth are we doing it? It is total madness! Don't forget Labour and it's EU loving PM Blair. It's not just the Tories Oggy.
The Democratic loving leave voters have waited 40 years for a vote without kicking off and accepting democracy over that period. Contrast that with your lot.
There's politicians and invested parties making a fair amount of money out of the EU. You'll never get the Kinnock clan saying a bad word about it.
There was nothing democratic about the referendum! Lies v fear. It was a disgrace. And we are still waiting to see what the leave vote was even for! Blair made huge error with not delaying when the eastern bloc could move here. I didn’t include Blair because Labour haven’t been in government for ages! I am sure they had loads of manifesto U turns too - but that simply supports my previous point that U turns are not unusual.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 4, 2018 17:38:48 GMT
What exactly is disingenuous about offering referenda pre election and then not following through once in power. It creates a level of distrust which results in the result that we got in the Brexit vote. That, allied to failed UK politicians going on to earn a packet in Brussels afterwards. It's a good job I'm not cynical otherwise I might think of it as "reward".
Out of interest how much do you make out of the EU?
It's probably always been better to be working class in Europe even before the Common Market.
We all make a good amount from the EU. The Tories have U turned on loads of their last 3 manifestoes, so why not on this as well? Surely trust is low already from all the other U turns. If a board of a company, or trustees of a charity, were actively pursuing a policy that all their own reports said will be bad forthe company or charity, they would be the potential for criminal charges. The government don’t think brexit is in our interest, the house of commons don’t either, neither do the Lords (we don’t know about the Queen) and even the public are at best split down the middle about it and may well vote very, very differently to last time if allowed the chance (but the self proclaiming democratic loving leave voters are too scared to put that to the test). So why on earth are we doing it? It is total madness! Because more people voted to leave the EU in the 2016 Referendum than those that voted to stay. It's called Democracy. And that's why we're leaving.
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Post by felonious on Nov 4, 2018 17:39:06 GMT
Don't forget Labour and it's EU loving PM Blair. It's not just the Tories Oggy.
The Democratic loving leave voters have waited 40 years for a vote without kicking off and accepting democracy over that period. Contrast that with your lot.
There's politicians and invested parties making a fair amount of money out of the EU. You'll never get the Kinnock clan saying a bad word about it.
There was nothing democratic about the referendum! Lies v fear. It was a disgrace. And we are still waiting to see what the leave vote was even for! Blair made huge error with not delaying when the eastern bloc could move here. I didn’t include Blair because Labour haven’t been in government for ages! I am sure they had loads of manifesto U turns too - but that simply supports my previous point that U turns are not unusual. We're getting lies v fear from Remainers now. We've had it before every treaty, etc negotiation with the EU for as long as I can remember. I voted for in the earlier referendum and that vote was honoured. I expect the same from this one.
Labour have had plenty of input into project EU over the intervening period, Blair, Kinnock, etc. Blair was the last PM to offer a referendum so he's far more relevant than Major.
On this basis there's nothing democratic about an election in the EU either. If you look at the last election you could say that Corbyn gained votes because of his Eurosceptic attitude to the EU only to change his stance after the election.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 4, 2018 17:43:37 GMT
We all make a good amount from the EU. The Tories have U turned on loads of their last 3 manifestoes, so why not on this as well? Surely trust is low already from all the other U turns. If a board of a company, or trustees of a charity, were actively pursuing a policy that all their own reports said will be bad forthe company or charity, they would be the potential for criminal charges. The government don’t think brexit is in our interest, the house of commons don’t either, neither do the Lords (we don’t know about the Queen) and even the public are at best split down the middle about it and may well vote very, very differently to last time if allowed the chance (but the self proclaiming democratic loving leave voters are too scared to put that to the test). So why on earth are we doing it? It is total madness! Because more people voted to leave the EU in the 2016 Referendum than those that voted to stay. It's called Democracy. And that's why we're leaving. Yes, but how is that democratic when the leave vote was based on complete lies and was made blind? That’s not democracy. A vote doesn’t mean it’s democratic. And what if more people want to remain now? What then? This is precisely why we don’t live in a democracy. We live in a parliamentary democracy and it is a travesty that our gutless MPs abdicated responsibility in order to appease 40 or so extremists on the right of the Tories. The richest people in the country.
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Post by pearo on Nov 4, 2018 17:47:02 GMT
Don't forget Labour and it's EU loving PM Blair. It's not just the Tories Oggy.
The Democratic loving leave voters have waited 40 years for a vote without kicking off and accepting democracy over that period. Contrast that with your lot.
There's politicians and invested parties making a fair amount of money out of the EU. You'll never get the Kinnock clan saying a bad word about it.
There was nothing democratic about the referendum! Lies v fear. It was a disgrace. And we are still waiting to see what the leave vote was even for! Blair made huge error with not delaying when the eastern bloc could move here. I didn’t include Blair because Labour haven’t been in government for ages! I am sure they had loads of manifesto U turns too - but that simply supports my previous point that U turns are not unusual. The Leave vote was to leave, why do you struggle to understand that concept?
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 4, 2018 17:49:13 GMT
There was nothing democratic about the referendum! Lies v fear. It was a disgrace. And we are still waiting to see what the leave vote was even for! Blair made huge error with not delaying when the eastern bloc could move here. I didn’t include Blair because Labour haven’t been in government for ages! I am sure they had loads of manifesto U turns too - but that simply supports my previous point that U turns are not unusual. We're getting lies v fear from Remainers now. We've had it before every treaty, etc negotiation with the EU for as long as I can remember. I voted for in the earlier referendum and that vote was honoured. I expect the same from this one.
Labour have had plenty of input into project EU over the intervening period, Blair, Kinnock, etc. Blair was the last PM to offer a referendum so he's far more relevant than Major.
On this basis there's nothing democratic about an election in the EU either. If you look at the last election you could say that Corbyn gained votes because of his Eurosceptic attitude to the EU only to change his stance after the election.
Liars in politics can be removed in elections periodically. Liars on a referendum do potentially irreparable damage.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 4, 2018 17:55:40 GMT
There was nothing democratic about the referendum! Lies v fear. It was a disgrace. And we are still waiting to see what the leave vote was even for! Blair made huge error with not delaying when the eastern bloc could move here. I didn’t include Blair because Labour haven’t been in government for ages! I am sure they had loads of manifesto U turns too - but that simply supports my previous point that U turns are not unusual. The Leave vote was to leave, why do you struggle to understand that concept? Why do you struggle to understand that if you withdraw from an treaty (which is essentially what we are doing, but a series of them) you have to do something else. Trade doesn’t just stop. People don’t just stop going on holiday, or university, or working. Businesses still need to sell things, transport things. We need to fly over EU airspace and land at their airports. We need to know about all the reciprocal agreements in place. They are all being ripped up, so what is replacing them? We also need to know what we are owed and what we owe. Did you not understand what the government have spent billions on sorting out? Did you not understand why A50 had a 2 year notice period? Do you not get why it takes a lot of time and negotiating to get these agreements in place and treaties sorted? If all leave voters didn’t know about the above (and all the other issues we are dealing with to prepare for leaving), and the answers to at least the major ones, it is a great example of why we should be letting politicians make these decisions rather than Joe Bloggs who is not really knowledgeable enough.
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Post by felonious on Nov 4, 2018 18:04:33 GMT
We're getting lies v fear from Remainers now. We've had it before every treaty, etc negotiation with the EU for as long as I can remember. I voted for in the earlier referendum and that vote was honoured. I expect the same from this one.
Labour have had plenty of input into project EU over the intervening period, Blair, Kinnock, etc. Blair was the last PM to offer a referendum so he's far more relevant than Major.
On this basis there's nothing democratic about an election in the EU either. If you look at the last election you could say that Corbyn gained votes because of his Eurosceptic attitude to the EU only to change his stance after the election.
Liars in politics can be removed in elections periodically. Liars on a referendum do potentially irreparable damage. Perhaps the politicians who put together the "facts" in the first referendum were liars too. Had the public been told about ever closer political union, open immigration into the UK, UK courts being subvervient to EU courts, the EU army, the Euro, the EU provocation of Russia through encroachment on their borders, the list of mission creep is endless, then perhaps we would have different result in the first place.
Not forgetting the damage that this entity is doing and has done to the economies of Southern Europe with it's one size fits all policies. Then there's the social cohesion damage that it's doing with it's open border policies. I hadn't realised the issues being caused here by the influx of Roma. The EU is the primary cause of destabilisation of European countries with these open door policies and the cause of the rise of the right. How dare they tell sovereign countries like Poland and Hungary how many immigrants they must take. How dare they tell a sovereign country like Italy what their budget should look like, after all by your rules the Italian government was decided by election not by a referendum.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 4, 2018 19:00:08 GMT
Because more people voted to leave the EU in the 2016 Referendum than those that voted to stay. It's called Democracy. And that's why we're leaving. Yes, but how is that democratic when the leave vote was based on complete lies and was made blind? That’s not democracy. A vote doesn’t mean it’s democratic. And what if more people want to remain now? What then? This is precisely why we don’t live in a democracy. We live in a parliamentary democracy and it is a travesty that our gutless MPs abdicated responsibility in order to appease 40 or so extremists on the right of the Tories. The richest people in the country. Rubbish. Tony Benn(rip) and Jeremy Corbyn have been Anti-European all their lives. There have been just as many lies on the Remain side. We had a Referendum in 1973..We voted IN..nobody at the time called for a second referendum. Do you honestly believe that if people had voted to stay in, in 2016, we would be calling for a second vote? Since 2016 the wheels haven't come off..we haven't all starved to death etc etc All complete lies from the Remain side. 'If we don't join the Euro it will be a disaster' Remember that? And was it?
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Post by lordb on Nov 4, 2018 21:24:06 GMT
Yes, but how is that democratic when the leave vote was based on complete lies and was made blind? That’s not democracy. A vote doesn’t mean it’s democratic. And what if more people want to remain now? What then? This is precisely why we don’t live in a democracy. We live in a parliamentary democracy and it is a travesty that our gutless MPs abdicated responsibility in order to appease 40 or so extremists on the right of the Tories. The richest people in the country. Rubbish. Tony Benn(rip) and Jeremy Corbyn have been Anti-European all their lives. There have been just as many lies on the Remain side. We had a Referendum in 1973..We voted IN..nobody at the time called for a second referendum. Do you honestly believe that if people had voted to stay in, in 2016, we would be calling for a second vote? Since 2016 the wheels haven't come off..we haven't all starved to death etc etc All complete lies from the Remain side. 'If we don't join the Euro it will be a disaster' Remember that? And was it? 100% certain there would have been called for a second referendum had leave won. Said so long before the vote as did many people. Look at Scotland,calls for another referendum and that result wasn't as close. As for judging the events of leaving, we haven't left yet!
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 4, 2018 21:58:28 GMT
Rubbish. Tony Benn(rip) and Jeremy Corbyn have been Anti-European all their lives. There have been just as many lies on the Remain side. We had a Referendum in 1973..We voted IN..nobody at the time called for a second referendum. Do you honestly believe that if people had voted to stay in, in 2016, we would be calling for a second vote? Since 2016 the wheels haven't come off..we haven't all starved to death etc etc All complete lies from the Remain side. 'If we don't join the Euro it will be a disaster' Remember that? And was it? 100% certain there would have been called for a second referendum had leave won. Said so long before the vote as did many people. Look at Scotland,calls for another referendum and that result wasn't as close. As for judging the events of leaving, we haven't left yet! Exactly. You only have to look at other European Countries who've held Referendum that's gone against the EU's wishes. Guess what? There's been a second one. Maybe we should have best out of three. As long as we leave with the 'right' deal there's nothing to worry about. Don't forget that we're only negotiating the withdrawal agreement at the moment..the real negotiations start after March 2019
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Post by capto on Nov 5, 2018 17:12:58 GMT
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1057973993268039680.htmlthreadreaderapp.com/thread/1059068463933743104.htmlcarol hedges @caroljhedges Whilst it was being broadcast, we checkd out the company accounts for Rock Services Ltd at Companies House. It was insolvent at 31 December 2015 and 2016. Made losses and at 31/12/15 Only had £215,000 in the bank. #Marr should have been able to bring these accounts up on screen. Edwin Hayward @uk_domain_names Insurer Hiscox spent US$15 million (£11.5 million) in preparations against a no-deal Brexit. That's just one company in one industry. Imagine the £billions being collectively flushed away across the UK by firms gearing up for an event none of them want! www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-us-are-informants-say-russian-expats-in-uk-vskn90l02Max 🇪🇺 🇬🇧 🇮🇹#PeoplesVote #FBPE #stopBrexit @maxmigliorato · A simple question. If you had the resources, would you have donated £9M to a Ref Campaign? If the answer, as I think, is Hell No, why do you think anyone else would and become the biggest donor in British political history? Repeat: Biggest. Donor. British. Political. History www.ft.com/content/4610a4be-dde2-11e8-9f04-38d397e6661c?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a1. For every £1.00 (0.6% of GDP) we contribute to the EU, the country earns over £10 from membership 2. For every £10 the UK earns, 82%, so £8-20 goes to the top 1% of the population. 3. Everything quitters, leavers, brexiteers, far-right, MSM etc you about the EU is lies 4. Ask the question - why would they lie?
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 5, 2018 22:04:24 GMT
The Leave vote was to leave, why do you struggle to understand that concept? Why do you struggle to understand that if you withdraw from an treaty (which is essentially what we are doing, but a series of them) you have to do something else. Trade doesn’t just stop. People don’t just stop going on holiday, or university, or working. Businesses still need to sell things, transport things. We need to fly over EU airspace and land at their airports. We need to know about all the reciprocal agreements in place. They are all being ripped up, so what is replacing them? We also need to know what we are owed and what we owe.
Did you not understand what the government have spent billions on sorting out? Did you not understand why A50 had a 2 year notice period? Do you not get why it takes a lot of time and negotiating to get these agreements in place and treaties sorted? If all leave voters didn’t know about the above (and all the other issues we are dealing with to prepare for leaving), and the answers to at least the major ones, it is a great example of why we should be letting politicians make these decisions rather than Joe Bloggs who is not really knowledgeable enough. That applies to the EU side as well surely considering the UK trade deficit with the EU is about £24bn?
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 5, 2018 22:27:08 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. link
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Post by harryburrows on Nov 5, 2018 22:31:46 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. linkSo what's your point ?
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 5, 2018 22:36:01 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. linkSo what's your point ? A lot on here say the will of the people so lets give the will of the people an option to change there minds in a new vote !!
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 5, 2018 22:36:30 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. linkSo a 2% swing would be decisive and we have to accept that decision? Why?
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 5, 2018 22:44:10 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. linkSo a 2% swing would be decisive and we have to accept that decision? Why? You wouldn't have to accept this decision (if it were to happen) - you could protest, argue on here all day that it's a load of shit, start a petition for a third referendum, write to your local MP to complain, or do whatever you like. That's the joy of living in a free country. And if anyone calls you an 'enemy of the people' or 'anti-democratic' for not agreeing with the decision, you can call them a bellend.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 5, 2018 22:45:25 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. linkAbsolute bullshit independent poll my arse the bloody channel four presenter couldn’t hide his glee with the alleged result 20 thousand people works out less than 31 people polled per constituency Some poll that
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 5, 2018 22:47:08 GMT
So a 2% swing would be decisive and we have to accept that decision? Why? You wouldn't have to accept this decision (if it were to happen) - you could protest, argue on here all day that it's a load of shit, start a petition for a third referendum, write to your local MP to complain, or do whatever you like. That's the joy of living in a free country. And if anyone calls you an 'enemy of the people' or 'anti-democratic' for not agreeing with the decision, you can call them a bellend. As it happens, I'd accept the democratic decision, I'm just old fashioned like that.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 5, 2018 22:50:06 GMT
Why do you struggle to understand that if you withdraw from an treaty (which is essentially what we are doing, but a series of them) you have to do something else. Trade doesn’t just stop. People don’t just stop going on holiday, or university, or working. Businesses still need to sell things, transport things. We need to fly over EU airspace and land at their airports. We need to know about all the reciprocal agreements in place. They are all being ripped up, so what is replacing them? We also need to know what we are owed and what we owe.
Did you not understand what the government have spent billions on sorting out? Did you not understand why A50 had a 2 year notice period? Do you not get why it takes a lot of time and negotiating to get these agreements in place and treaties sorted? If all leave voters didn’t know about the above (and all the other issues we are dealing with to prepare for leaving), and the answers to at least the major ones, it is a great example of why we should be letting politicians make these decisions rather than Joe Bloggs who is not really knowledgeable enough. That applies to the EU side as well surely considering the UK trade deficit with the EU is about £24bn? Yes, but the EU didn’t vote on this. We did. Which is the point I was making to someone who was saying “what don’t you understand about a vote to leave”.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 5, 2018 22:53:51 GMT
Yes, but how is that democratic when the leave vote was based on complete lies and was made blind? That’s not democracy. A vote doesn’t mean it’s democratic. And what if more people want to remain now? What then? This is precisely why we don’t live in a democracy. We live in a parliamentary democracy and it is a travesty that our gutless MPs abdicated responsibility in order to appease 40 or so extremists on the right of the Tories. The richest people in the country. Rubbish. Tony Benn(rip) and Jeremy Corbyn have been Anti-European all their lives. There have been just as many lies on the Remain side. We had a Referendum in 1973..We voted IN..nobody at the time called for a second referendum. Do you honestly believe that if people had voted to stay in, in 2016, we would be calling for a second vote? Since 2016 the wheels haven't come off..we haven't all starved to death etc etc All complete lies from the Remain side. 'If we don't join the Euro it will be a disaster' Remember that? And was it? Another leave voter who thinks a prediction is the same as a lie. Nobody predicted we would starve!
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Post by numpty40 on Nov 5, 2018 22:58:34 GMT
That applies to the EU side as well surely considering the UK trade deficit with the EU is about £24bn? Yes, but the EU didn’t vote on this. We did. Which is the point I was making to someone who was saying “what don’t you understand about a vote to leave”. 'Trade doesn’t just stop. People don’t just stop going on holiday, or university, or working. Businesses still need to sell things, transport things. We need to fly over EU airspace and land at their airports. We need to know about all the reciprocal agreements in place' And that's the issue, life goes on. There is a whole wide world outside the EU but some seem terrified rather than emboldened. It may mean new statutes but the EU will be equally as keen as the UK to agreements.
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Post by thingscouldbemarvellous on Nov 5, 2018 23:03:12 GMT
Remain would win a new Brexit poll by 54%-46%, according to analysis of one of the largest surveys carried out on the issue. Some 20,000 people were questioned in a Survation poll for Channel 4 which estimated 105 local authority areas that voted Leave in 2016 would now be carried by the Remain side. linkThe polls before the actual vote indicated similar outcomes to the one you quote, what’s your point..........?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 5, 2018 23:14:31 GMT
Rubbish. Tony Benn(rip) and Jeremy Corbyn have been Anti-European all their lives. There have been just as many lies on the Remain side. We had a Referendum in 1973..We voted IN..nobody at the time called for a second referendum. Do you honestly believe that if people had voted to stay in, in 2016, we would be calling for a second vote? Since 2016 the wheels haven't come off..we haven't all starved to death etc etc All complete lies from the Remain side. 'If we don't join the Euro it will be a disaster' Remember that? And was it? Another leave voter who thinks a prediction is the same as a lie. Nobody predicted we would starve! "starve"
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