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Post by Northy on Oct 1, 2018 8:06:47 GMT
In thatcher's words on a greater EU take over of Britain - No, No, No What's up with the remoaners lot, we've had enough votes on it, time to wake up buttercup's, you lost the vote |
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 1, 2018 8:17:58 GMT
[/quote]In thatcher's words on a greater EU take over of Britain - No, No, No
What's up with the remoaners lot, we've had enough votes on it, time to wake up buttercup's, you lost the vote [/quote]
Sorry duckling, but I didn't even get to vote, which is my main beef about the whole thing. That, and being in continental Europe and being ignored (again) by the British government - although the European politicians are quite willing to listen.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 1, 2018 9:15:05 GMT
In thatcher's words on a greater EU take over of Britain - No, No, No What's up with the remoaners lot, we've had enough votes on it, time to wake up buttercup's, you lost the vote [/quote] Sorry duckling, but I didn't even get to vote, which is my main beef about the whole thing. That, and being in continental Europe and being ignored (again) by the British government - although the European politicians are quite willing to listen. [/quote] Out of interest where do you pay taxes surly that is where you should vote |
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 1, 2018 10:19:22 GMT
Out of interest where do you pay taxes surly that is where you should vote Pay tax in Germany according to EU rules. Am only allowed to vote in German regional and district elections but not national elections. Would have been allowed to vote in UK elections had Mr. Tony Blair and his regime not introduced a 15 year limit for expats, after which voting rights would no longer apply. (This made sense to Labour at the time since most exiles would be Tory voters.) Then came the Brexit referendum (which, incidentaly, cannot be constitionally binding on either the Government or Parliament - although no one seems to want to talk about that), from which many UK nationals, and all EU nationals in the UK except the Irish were prohibited from taking part (even though they would be directly affected by the outcome), which gives a nice example of how the UK already had "control", exercised it, and didn't need to take it back from anybody else. Strangely enough, the island of Gibraltar became part of South-West England for the purposes of the referendum, and many nationals of Commonwealth countries were also allowed to take part. It's worth remembering that none of these conditions were drawn up specifically for the Brexit referendum but are rather historical "leftovers": Nevertheless, many (especially leavers) talk about the 52% without giving much (if any) thought about 52% of what! And for what it's worth, most EU countries, including DE, have strictly followed EU legislation controlling the rights and permissions of citizens from other EU states. Under EU law, EU migrants must be registered on arrival and after 3 months have a job or funds to keep themselves. If not, then they can be returned to their home country. The UK Government never bothered with this opportunity to take control. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 1, 2018 10:29:30 GMT
In thatcher's words on a greater EU take over of Britain - No, No, No What's up with the remoaners lot, we've had enough votes on it, time to wake up buttercup's, you lost the vote I think it's time for Leave voters to wake up and realise they won the vote and Brexit is happening. To hear some of the discussions going on about Brexit betrayals you'd think the current government had ruled out leaving the EU. Instead they're negotiating to leave the EU as per the the result of the referendum. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 1, 2018 11:04:11 GMT
In thatcher's words on a greater EU take over of Britain - No, No, No What's up with the remoaners lot, we've had enough votes on it, time to wake up buttercup's, you lost the vote I think it's time for Leave voters to wake up and realise they won the vote and Brexit is happening. To hear some of the discussions going on about Brexit betrayals you'd think the current government had ruled out leaving the EU. Instead they're negotiating to leave the EU as per the the result of the referendum. No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. |
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 1, 2018 11:25:27 GMT
I think it's time for Leave voters to wake up and realise they won the vote and Brexit is happening. To hear some of the discussions going on about Brexit betrayals you'd think the current government had ruled out leaving the EU. Instead they're negotiating to leave the EU as per the the result of the referendum. No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. Winners who don't yet know what they've won.  |
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 1, 2018 12:04:30 GMT
Don't pin your hopes on the losers vote |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 1, 2018 12:54:53 GMT
The election wasn’t fought over one issue. And in answer to your final question, everyone should always have a chance to change their minds about things because otherwise you do not have a democratic system. If you had read through my recent posts you would of realised why I had mentioned the general election How regular do you propose to have these votes to enable us to change our minds on various things I think referenda are completely anyi-democratic as they split nations. My view is they should never, ever be held, and instead, MPs should do their job and not abdicate responsibility. But as we made the massive error or having a referendum, the result should be upheld. However, the result is entirely unclear. Therefore we need to see what the vote was actually for and of course within that an option must be to change your mind, otherwise we have a real probably with democracy. I think leave may well still win a second vote, but the second vote would need to be clear in what the leave vote is for. I definitely do not think a hard brexit option would win and I think an EEA type arrangement may win. Which actually better reflects the original vote more where it was clear that whilst more voted to leave, a huge amount of people voted to stay and the EEA option keeps us out of the EU but very close to the EU. Referenda are awful. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 1, 2018 12:57:57 GMT
I think it's time for Leave voters to wake up and realise they won the vote and Brexit is happening. To hear some of the discussions going on about Brexit betrayals you'd think the current government had ruled out leaving the EU. Instead they're negotiating to leave the EU as per the the result of the referendum. No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. So to have any future agreements with the EU would be a betrayal would it? Do you know that means withdrawing from every single international treaty to which the EU is a signatory. We literally would be unable to conduct business with the EU as there would be no single set of laws or guideline rules we would both be operating under. No WTO rules. Nothing. No reciprocity on flights, immigration, trade. What about the brits living there? What about EU citizens here? You want to be N Korea by the spunds of it, an isolationist state. That is 100% not what the vote was about. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 13:15:49 GMT
No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. So to have any future agreements with the EU would be a betrayal would it? Do you know that means withdrawing from every single international treaty to which the EU is a signatory. We literally would be unable to conduct business with the EU as there would be no single set of laws or guideline rules we would both be operating under. No WTO rules. Nothing. No reciprocity on flights, immigration, trade. What about the brits living there? What about EU citizens here? You want to be N Korea by the spunds of it, an isolationist state. That is 100% not what the vote was about. No Oggy We've had a referendum, a people's vote. We voted to leave the EU. The question was made clear. No evidence that Leavers have changed their minds. Plenty of evidence that Remainers can't accept the democratic result and wish to undermine it. We need to deliver BREXIT. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 1, 2018 13:24:05 GMT
I think it's time for Leave voters to wake up and realise they won the vote and Brexit is happening. To hear some of the discussions going on about Brexit betrayals you'd think the current government had ruled out leaving the EU. Instead they're negotiating to leave the EU as per the the result of the referendum. No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. I'm not advocating May's plan, but it takes us out of the EU. It might not take us out of the EU in the way you want, and it might not take us out of the EU in the way I want - but as it stands we will have left by March 2019. We never had a say on the details of leaving the EU - only whether we leave or not. So anything that involves us leaving the EU has enacted the result of the referendum, for good or for bad. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 1, 2018 13:26:23 GMT
So to have any future agreements with the EU would be a betrayal would it? Do you know that means withdrawing from every single international treaty to which the EU is a signatory. We literally would be unable to conduct business with the EU as there would be no single set of laws or guideline rules we would both be operating under. No WTO rules. Nothing. No reciprocity on flights, immigration, trade. What about the brits living there? What about EU citizens here? You want to be N Korea by the spunds of it, an isolationist state. That is 100% not what the vote was about. No Oggy We've had a referendum, a people's vote. We voted to leave the EU. The question was made clear. No evidence that Leavers have changed their minds. Plenty of evidence that Remainers can't accept the democratic result and wish to undermine it. We need to deliver BREXIT. "We voted to leave the EU" - yes, and that's what happening. Again, it's time for people to start accepting the fact that we are leaving the EU. And it appears that goes for both sides of the argument. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 13:29:15 GMT
No Oggy We've had a referendum, a people's vote. We voted to leave the EU. The question was made clear. No evidence that Leavers have changed their minds. Plenty of evidence that Remainers can't accept the democratic result and wish to undermine it. We need to deliver BREXIT. "We voted to leave the EU" - yes, and that's what happening. Again, it's time for people to start accepting the fact that we are leaving the EU. And it appears that goes for both sides of the argument. As was made clear to everyone prior to the vote to " Leave the EU " meant leaving the SM, CU, EuCtJ, controlling our laws and borders. Anything less I'd not BREXIT and it is not just my opinion it was made absolutely clear. All that is happening now is s concerted effort to undermine the decision |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 13:37:04 GMT
We have got ourselves in a very strange position in British politics whereby those who like to feel comfortable thinking that they are on the left of politics, who like to think that they stand by the ordinary person are advocating undermining them , not listening to them . It took them long enough and cost enough to get representation of some sort and the vote. Very strange.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 1, 2018 13:39:27 GMT
"We voted to leave the EU" - yes, and that's what happening. Again, it's time for people to start accepting the fact that we are leaving the EU. And it appears that goes for both sides of the argument. As was made clear to everyone prior to the vote to " Leave the EU " meant leaving the SM, CU, EuCtJ, controlling our laws and borders. Anything less I'd not BREXIT and it is not just my opinion it was made absolutely clear. All that is happening now is s concerted effort to undermine the decision It wasn't made absolutely clear, otherwise we wouldn't still be having this conversation. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 13:56:28 GMT
As was made clear to everyone prior to the vote to " Leave the EU " meant leaving the SM, CU, EuCtJ, controlling our laws and borders. Anything less I'd not BREXIT and it is not just my opinion it was made absolutely clear. All that is happening now is s concerted effort to undermine the decision It wasn't made absolutely clear, otherwise we wouldn't still be having this conversation. Incorrect. It was absolutely clear. The subsequent deliberate lack of clarity is part of the strategy to undermine the result and to try to create a situation whereby BREXIT cannot be easily delivered. Deliberate muddying of the waters. |
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Post by skemstokie on Oct 1, 2018 14:08:53 GMT
"We voted to leave the EU" - yes, and that's what happening. Again, it's time for people to start accepting the fact that we are leaving the EU. And it appears that goes for both sides of the argument. As was made clear to everyone prior to the vote to " Leave the EU " meant leaving the SM, CU, EuCtJ, controlling our laws and borders. Anything less I'd not BREXIT and it is not just my opinion it was made absolutely clear. All that is happening now is s concerted effort to undermine the decision Leaving the EU according to the leave campaign meant more money for the N.H.S.that was FALSE, we would have easy access to EU markets which looks unlikely,that we would be better off not a chance in hell unless you are minted,that we could take back control of our borders,well looking at the shortage of nursing staff due to EU nationals returning home that might not be so good for us ? Toyota moving to France seems a strong possibility but hey it is what the people want,MY ARSE  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 14:21:11 GMT
As was made clear to everyone prior to the vote to " Leave the EU " meant leaving the SM, CU, EuCtJ, controlling our laws and borders. Anything less I'd not BREXIT and it is not just my opinion it was made absolutely clear. All that is happening now is s concerted effort to undermine the decision Leaving the EU according to the leave campaign meant more money for the N.H.S.that was FALSE, we would have easy access to EU markets which looks unlikely,that we would be better off not a chance in hell unless you are minted,that we could take back control of our borders,well looking at the shortage of nursing staff due to EU nationals returning home that might not be so good for us ? Toyota moving to France seems a strong possibility but hey it is what the people want,MY ARSE It meant regaining our sovereignty and making our own decisions. In the long run it could well also mean that we are more prosperous ( that's what the EU are scared of). In the short term the supply chain/ trade problems could be solved but our friends, the EU, want to punish us, " that'll teach them, and don't any other country try to leave" , A bit like the old USSR. ...as we move towards complete undemocratic central control of the United States of Europe |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 1, 2018 14:30:13 GMT
So to have any future agreements with the EU would be a betrayal would it? Do you know that means withdrawing from every single international treaty to which the EU is a signatory. We literally would be unable to conduct business with the EU as there would be no single set of laws or guideline rules we would both be operating under. No WTO rules. Nothing. No reciprocity on flights, immigration, trade. What about the brits living there? What about EU citizens here? You want to be N Korea by the spunds of it, an isolationist state. That is 100% not what the vote was about. No Oggy We've had a referendum, a people's vote. We voted to leave the EU. The question was made clear. No evidence that Leavers have changed their minds. Plenty of evidence that Remainers can't accept the democratic result and wish to undermine it. We need to deliver BREXIT. You must be delighted then because that is precisely what May has done from day 1. She was instructed to leave the EU and that is what she is doing. She was not instructed to never, ever agree anything ever again with the EU. Not even Farage, Dacre or Rees-Mogg would see that as a sensible way forward. Why are leave voters unhappy that May is delivering precisely what they voted for? Is it because the referendum question was wholly insufficient? I met a leave voter the other day. He is full of regret for his vote and said he wants to vote again and this time he would vote to remain. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 1, 2018 14:31:02 GMT
Leaving the EU according to the leave campaign meant more money for the N.H.S.that was FALSE, we would have easy access to EU markets which looks unlikely,that we would be better off not a chance in hell unless you are minted,that we could take back control of our borders,well looking at the shortage of nursing staff due to EU nationals returning home that might not be so good for us ? Toyota moving to France seems a strong possibility but hey it is what the people want,MY ARSE It meant regaining our sovereignty and making our own decisions. In the long run it could well also mean that we are more prosperous ( that's what the EU are scared of). In the short term the supply chain/ trade problems could be solved but our friends, the EU, want to punish us, " that'll teach them, and don't any other country try to leave" , A bit like the old USSR. ...as we move towards complete undemocratic central control of the United States of Europe Like the Soviets!? Are they murdering millions of people!? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 14:33:32 GMT
It meant regaining our sovereignty and making our own decisions. In the long run it could well also mean that we are more prosperous ( that's what the EU are scared of). In the short term the supply chain/ trade problems could be solved but our friends, the EU, want to punish us, " that'll teach them, and don't any other country try to leave" , A bit like the old USSR. ...as we move towards complete undemocratic central control of the United States of Europe Like the Soviets!? Are they murdering millions of people!? No. It's just power and control that they are after |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 14:35:04 GMT
No Oggy We've had a referendum, a people's vote. We voted to leave the EU. The question was made clear. No evidence that Leavers have changed their minds. Plenty of evidence that Remainers can't accept the democratic result and wish to undermine it. We need to deliver BREXIT. You must be delighted then because that is precisely what May has done from day 1. She was instructed to leave the EU and that is what she is doing. She was not instructed to never, ever agree anything ever again with the EU. Not even Farage, Dacre or Rees-Mogg would see that as a sensible way forward. Why are leave voters unhappy that May is delivering precisely what they voted for? Is it because the referendum question was wholly insufficient? I met a leave voter the other day. He is full of regret for his vote and said he wants to vote again and this time he would vote to remain. You don't seem to understand or distinguish between cooperation, control, dictatorship, sovereignty , the EU and Europe, and individual business |
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Post by Northy on Oct 1, 2018 14:54:13 GMT
No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. Winners who don't yet know what they've won. That's because the people who are paid to do their job can't accept the result and wont take us out |
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 1, 2018 14:58:26 GMT
[/quote]As was made clear to everyone prior to the vote to " Leave the EU " meant leaving the SM, CU, EuCtJ, controlling our laws and borders. Anything less I'd not BREXIT and it is not just my opinion it was made absolutely clear. All that is happening now is s concerted effort to undermine the decision[/quote]
If the UK remains a signatory to the Unified Patent Treaty and submits to the Unified Patent Court, then the UK will have to be subject to the highest instance available to European Patent disputees - namely the European Court of Justice. And as I've pointed out elsewhere, the UK had/has the right under EU law to control the immigration of EU nationals - but for some reason they couldn't be bothered.
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Post by Northy on Oct 1, 2018 14:59:44 GMT
No they are not, they are negotiating to keep parts of the UK in some sort of agreement, leave meant leave in it's totality, as far as leave voters voted, not some half arsed in/out policy that nobody (on both sides) apart from May wants. So to have any future agreements with the EU would be a betrayal would it? Do you know that means withdrawing from every single international treaty to which the EU is a signatory. We literally would be unable to conduct business with the EU as there would be no single set of laws or guideline rules we would both be operating under. No WTO rules. Nothing. No reciprocity on flights, immigration, trade. What about the brits living there? What about EU citizens here? You want to be N Korea by the spunds of it, an isolationist state. That is 100% not what the vote was about. Not sure how you got that response, you are twisting things again, the possibibilty of WTO rules was always an option and has been spoken about for a long time, May has already said about EU nationals. Companies are preparing for flights etc. and have got new routes planned for next year, its only you with your head in the sand. |
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Post by skemstokie on Oct 1, 2018 15:00:42 GMT
Leaving the EU according to the leave campaign meant more money for the N.H.S.that was FALSE, we would have easy access to EU markets which looks unlikely,that we would be better off not a chance in hell unless you are minted,that we could take back control of our borders,well looking at the shortage of nursing staff due to EU nationals returning home that might not be so good for us ? Toyota moving to France seems a strong possibility but hey it is what the people want,MY ARSE It meant regaining our sovereignty and making our own decisions. In the long run it could well also mean that we are more prosperous ( that's what the EU are scared of). In the short term the supply chain/ trade problems could be solved but our friends, the EU, want to punish us, " that'll teach them, and don't any other country try to leave" , A bit like the old USSR. ...as we move towards complete undemocratic central control of the United States of Europe Do you never tire of peddling the same s**t it is set to be a disaster. |
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Post by skemstokie on Oct 1, 2018 15:02:59 GMT
You must be delighted then because that is precisely what May has done from day 1. She was instructed to leave the EU and that is what she is doing. She was not instructed to never, ever agree anything ever again with the EU. Not even Farage, Dacre or Rees-Mogg would see that as a sensible way forward. Why are leave voters unhappy that May is delivering precisely what they voted for? Is it because the referendum question was wholly insufficient? I met a leave voter the other day. He is full of regret for his vote and said he wants to vote again and this time he would vote to remain. You don't seem to understand or distinguish between cooperation, control, dictatorship, sovereignty , the EU and Europe, and individual business Give up Oggy they won`t listen unless your called Boris  |
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 1, 2018 15:03:59 GMT
Winners who don't yet know what they've won. That's because the people who are paid to do their job can't accept the result and wont take us out No, that's not what I mean. How many people who voted for leave willingly and knowlingly voted for the re-introduction of roaming charges, higher prices due to trade tarifs and increased import/esport duties, a smaller imigrant workforce in the NHS and elsewhere, cutoms delays, longer cues at fixed borders (not to mention possible flight cancellations), lack of free movement across EU state borders etc.? How many people. in there right mind, voted deliberately to undermine the North Ireland peace agreement? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2018 15:06:24 GMT
It meant regaining our sovereignty and making our own decisions. In the long run it could well also mean that we are more prosperous ( that's what the EU are scared of). In the short term the supply chain/ trade problems could be solved but our friends, the EU, want to punish us, " that'll teach them, and don't any other country try to leave" , A bit like the old USSR. ...as we move towards complete undemocratic central control of the United States of Europe Do you never tire of peddling the same s**t it is set to be a disaster. Unfortunately the argument has to be continually made. You are right though we should not have to make it. As an aside, developing the shit a bit, Do you think we should go full monty then and join the Euro? |
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