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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2018 19:28:17 GMT
No... I'm not a wind-up.. The Ryder cup reference was an allegory. The EU is a political democratic congress. If the Eu is so politicaly democratic Why are the sanctioning a members government which was democratically elected and is enacting what it voters voted for Or does democracy only count when voters vote the way the Eu wants Because it is a sanction for breaching the agreements entered into when they voluntarily joined the EU. Like sanctions on China for human rights abuses. That’s how international agreements and treaties are often upheld. And I very much doubt the Hungarian leader stood on a mandate of “i’m going to eliminate the rule of law and separation of powers by hand selecting the judiciary” so I doubt he was elected for that. I love the irony of those criticising the EU for sanctioning a country who are anti-democratic (in breach of a treaty they chose to sign up to) but at the same time they say the EU is not democratic!! The EU cannot win it seems. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2018 19:28:49 GMT
£500m a week my arse lol, people campaigning to stay in the EU pluck a number from the air and offer no detail but surprisingly leaving is worse for us even when we haven't even left yet  Roll on the 29 March so we don't have to put up with this BS anymore Head in the sand |
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 19:30:44 GMT
Wasn't trying to be funny. Just didn't understand your question. I'm not so clued up on the Hungary situation so I'll have a look and give you my considered and brief response. Thank you I shall eagerly await your view on the Hungary situation Just as a teaser wags.. As this got anything to do with the Austro- Hungarian Empire that caused the Great War and completely devasted Europe until we joined the Common Market in 1973.? |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 30, 2018 19:34:28 GMT
FFS... Are you on a period? I think a few people are. Some muppet above actually thought I used the word "are" in place of "our" due to a lack of understanding of basic English. Mocking people is no fun when they're too dense to realise you're doing it. I know exactly who you were mocking. I was taking the piss out of you and your "intellectual stance" on the stewards at Rotherham thread but you're to fucking thick to realise. |
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Post by Dave the Rave on Sept 30, 2018 19:39:58 GMT
I think a few people are. Some muppet above actually thought I used the word "are" in place of "our" due to a lack of understanding of basic English. Mocking people is no fun when they're too dense to realise you're doing it. I know exactly who you were mocking. I was taking the piss out of you and your "intellectual stance" on the stewards at Rotherham thread but you're to fucking thick to realise. *Too And that's some shocking backtracking. You've fucked up but you can't admit it. There wasn't an ounce of sarcasm in your post, you thought you'd caught me out and tried to make out I'd taken the piss out of thick people when I'd made such an elementary mistake myself. Bless. |
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Post by boothenboy75 on Sept 30, 2018 19:49:19 GMT
Thick as two short planks. Oatcake true to form, oppose the populist view on here and you will be labelled a fool or an idiot. What brexiters don't get is that we (remoaner) care about the UK and want what's best for everyone in the UK leaving our biggest trading partners is not going to achieve this. I’ll sleep easy knowing your putting me right. Thanks mum. What a sanctimonious prick you sound. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 19:51:50 GMT
Thank you I shall eagerly await your view on the Hungary situation Just as a teaser wags.. As this got anything to do with the Austro- Hungarian Empire that caused the Great War and completely devasted Europe until we joined the Common Market in 1973.? No it’s about a proud race of people who having been part of imperial politics for centuries We’re finally given the right to govern themselves Only for the Second World War to deliver them into the hands of the Soviet empire With the fall of the above they finally became for a short while a free and independent country again There politicians at the time decided to apply for Eu membership as a protection against further Russian influence They now find themselves being yet again controlled by a outside force against the will of there people The empire on this occasion being the Eu |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 30, 2018 19:53:47 GMT
Brendan Chilton speaks some sense. It's a shame that Labour have missed the opportunity to take a lead. I think that the reason that they don't fully support and believe in Btexit is because they don't really have confidence in themselves and their ability to win an election do hope to get more socialist policies through the back door of the EU.
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 19:56:31 GMT
Just as a teaser wags.. As this got anything to do with the Austro- Hungarian Empire that caused the Great War and completely devasted Europe until we joined the Common Market in 1973.? No it’s about a proud race of people who having been part of imperial politics for centuries We’re finally given the right to govern themselves Only for the Second World War to deliver them into the hands of the Soviet empire With the fall of the above they finally became for a short while a free and independent country again There politicians at the time decided to apply for Eu membership as a protection against further Russian influence They now find themselves being yet again controlled by a outside force against the will of there people The empire on this occasion being the Eu Just had a quick look and they seem to have been a bit naughty and reneged on some basic EU protocol. Is that the case.? Perhaps the EU don't want any far right political entities strutting their stuff in Europe. You know where that goes don't you. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 20:05:02 GMT
No it’s about a proud race of people who having been part of imperial politics for centuries We’re finally given the right to govern themselves Only for the Second World War to deliver them into the hands of the Soviet empire With the fall of the above they finally became for a short while a free and independent country again There politicians at the time decided to apply for Eu membership as a protection against further Russian influence They now find themselves being yet again controlled by a outside force against the will of there people The empire on this occasion being the Eu Just had a quick look and they seem to have been a bit naughty and reneged on some basic EU protocol. Is that the case.? Perhaps the EU don't want any far right political entities strutting their stuff in Europe. You know where that goes don't you. But the point is you say the Eu is democratic but it is punishing a country that has democratically elected a government that many in the Eu find unpalatable But democratic it is Surly you can’t pick and choose democracy Therefore the eu is acting in a authoritarian manner and not respecting democracy |
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 20:12:03 GMT
Just had a quick look and they seem to have been a bit naughty and reneged on some basic EU protocol. Is that the case.? Perhaps the EU don't want any far right political entities strutting their stuff in Europe. You know where that goes don't you. But the point is you say the Eu is democratic but it is punishing a country that has democratically elected a government that many in the Eu find unpalatable But democratic it is Surly you can’t pick and choose democracy Therefore the eu is acting in a authoritarian manner and not respecting democracy I've no idea. But I do know that if you enter an organisation such as the EU and take on their rules and agreements you should abide with them. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 20:22:08 GMT
But the point is you say the Eu is democratic but it is punishing a country that has democratically elected a government that many in the Eu find unpalatable But democratic it is Surly you can’t pick and choose democracy Therefore the eu is acting in a authoritarian manner and not respecting democracy I've no idea. But I do know that if you enter an organisation such as the EU and take on their rules and agreements you should abide with them. But surely then the rules should not be changed unless by a democratic mandate And since this country joined in the seventies there hasn’t been one single attempt to achieve a democratic mandate from the British people for any of the numerous rule changes |
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 20:35:20 GMT
I've no idea. But I do know that if you enter an organisation such as the EU and take on their rules and agreements you should abide with them. But surely then the rules should not be changed unless by a democratic mandate And since this country joined in the seventies there hasn’t been one single attempt to achieve a democratic mandate from the British people for any of the numerous rule changes Sorry.. Quick change of direction eh waga...? You... voted for a government that sanctioned the Lisbon treaties. Or you didn't. That's democracy. Every four years. We have this system so that people can change their mind and vent their spleen if the tossers haven't been doing what they promised. Referendum are the tools of cowards in Government. We have a situation where the Leader of our elected democratic Goverment doesn't believe in the task she has been given by a referendum. How can that be right? |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 20:47:58 GMT
But surely then the rules should not be changed unless by a democratic mandate And since this country joined in the seventies there hasn’t been one single attempt to achieve a democratic mandate from the British people for any of the numerous rule changes Sorry.. Quick change of direction eh waga...? You... voted for a government that sanctioned the Lisbon treaties. Or you didn't. That's democracy. Every four years. We have this system so that people can change their mind and vent their spleen if the tossers haven't been doing what they promised. Referendum are the tools of cowards in Government. We have a situation where the Leader of our elected democratic Goverment doesn't believe in the task she has been given by a referendum. How can that be right? Well we can both change tack following the the last election both of the main parties agreed to implement the decision to leave the Eu So therefore over 85 % of the voting population has voted to leave So as to respect democracy they had better bloody we’ll get on with it |
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 20:53:36 GMT
Sorry.. Quick change of direction eh waga...? You... voted for a government that sanctioned the Lisbon treaties. Or you didn't. That's democracy. Every four years. We have this system so that people can change their mind and vent their spleen if the tossers haven't been doing what they promised. Referendum are the tools of cowards in Government. We have a situation where the Leader of our elected democratic Goverment doesn't believe in the task she has been given by a referendum. How can that be right? Well we can both change tack following the the last election both of the main parties agreed to implement the decision to leave the Eu So therefore over 85 % of the voting population has voted to leave So as to respect democracy they had better bloody we’ll get on with it Referendum. So that means that the Leader... May ( ☺) not agree with the vote. It's a nonsense. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2018 20:57:49 GMT
100% behind you on that one. The mother shit storm of all shit storms is about to wreak havoc on us all. Only the other day I read that due to Brexit an asteroid is now on a deadly collision course to hit the earth, projected to slam into the middle of the Atlantic, causing a mass tidal wave of biblical proportion which will end up slamming into and destroying major cities on the east coast of the American continent, Western Africa and Europe. The resulting impact shall also play havoc with the continental tectonics, causing a mass shift, even potentially a polar shift. The impact will result in tectonics shifting on a global scale, causing earthquakes of a massive scale across every major fault line the world over. It will make the San Francisco earthquake of 1902 look like a mere child's belly rumble, causing the collapse of not just buildings but entire cities. As a result of the tectonic shifts its thought that will set of a chain reaction of major volcanic activity on a global scale. Potentially seeing the entire ring of fire region igniting volcanoes throughout the Pacific plate fault lines, however that would be deemed insignificant as the major concern and general expectation from scientists is the potential of waking the super volcano that is yellowstone. Such an eruption coupled with resulting volcanic winter and the events from mass tsunami and earthquakes would see an extinction event not seen since the dinosaurs. All of this due to the fact that on the 23 June 2016 17,410,742 (51.89%) of the UK population decided they wished to become an independent country and reclaim there sovereignty back from a corrupt unelected European Union. You read it you say, damn that must be one big bus, afterall we know brexit voters only believe what is written on the sides of buses apparently  Haha just like remainers believe that straight after a leave vote we'd enter a recession, cause ww3, house prices would crash and emergency budget etc...? To be fair the leave campaign couldn't promise you the crap of its shoe should they win, all they could do is provide suggestions on what life outside the eu could deliver. They were not a political party in power in a position to give you promises, because the leaders of the then governing party wanted to remain so would refuse to give any appeal or upsides to leave the EU. If it was a fair vote the government should have been totally honest and impartial. At the least the civil service should have prepared for both outcomes which it did not. Instead Cameron and Osborne were the cheerleaders of remain and fed us all project fear. You bang on about one label on the side of a bus, in my opinion they were in no position to promise that, it was a mere suggestion what we could do and also it never committed 100% of that 350m to the NHS. Just remoan taking things out of context. |
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 20:58:17 GMT
Sorry.. Quick change of direction eh waga...? You... voted for a government that sanctioned the Lisbon treaties. Or you didn't. That's democracy. Every four years. We have this system so that people can change their mind and vent their spleen if the tossers haven't been doing what they promised. Referendum are the tools of cowards in Government. We have a situation where the Leader of our elected democratic Goverment doesn't believe in the task she has been given by a referendum. How can that be right? Well we can both change tack following the the last election both of the main parties agreed to implement the decision to leave the Eu So therefore over 85 % of the voting population has voted to leave So as to respect democracy they had better bloody we’ll get on with it The point in making waga ... You can only do this properly with a democratic vote for a Party that has got a mandate to leave the EU. The Government has sidelined it's responsibility and plunged the country into chaos. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2018 21:15:41 GMT
You read it you say, damn that must be one big bus, afterall we know brexit voters only believe what is written on the sides of buses apparently Haha just like remainers believe that straight after a leave vote we'd enter a recession, cause ww3, house prices would crash and emergency budget etc...? To be fair the leave campaign couldn't promise you the crap of its shoe should they win, all they could do is provide suggestions on what life outside the eu could deliver. They were not a political party in power in a position to give you promises, because the leaders of the then governing party wanted to remain so would refuse to give any appeal or upsides to leave the EU. If it was a fair vote the government should have been totally honest and impartial. At the least the civil service should have prepared for both outcomes which it did not. Instead Cameron and Osborne were the cheerleaders of remain and fed us all project fear. You bang on about one label on the side of a bus, in my opinion they were in no position to promise that, it was a mere suggestion what we could do and also it never committed 100% of that 350m to the NHS. Just remoan taking things out of context. It was the figure of £350m on the side of the bus that was the main problem. It’s the incorrect figure. It made leave voters (or at least some) think we will be £350m a week better off when we leave. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 21:23:11 GMT
Well we can both change tack following the the last election both of the main parties agreed to implement the decision to leave the Eu So therefore over 85 % of the voting population has voted to leave So as to respect democracy they had better bloody we’ll get on with it The point in making waga ... You can only do this properly with a democratic vote for a Party that has got a mandate to leave the EU. The Government has sidelined it's responsibility and plunged the country into chaos. Both main parties went in to the last election with the manifesto pledge to leave the Eu Over 80 % of people voted for them There is your mandate You stated in a earlier post that I had accepted rule changes by voting for parties that accepted the treaties being changed Therefore to maintain consistency in your argument we as a country have agreed to leave |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2018 21:25:00 GMT
The point in making waga ... You can only do this properly with a democratic vote for a Party that has got a mandate to leave the EU. The Government has sidelined it's responsibility and plunged the country into chaos. Both main parties went in to the last election with the manifesto pledge to leave the Eu Over 80 % of people voted for them There is your mandate You stated in a earlier post that I had accepted rule changes by voting for parties that accepted the treaties being changed Therefore to maintain consistency in your argument we as a country have agreed to leave And we, as a country, have the democratic right to change our minds. That’s the beauty of democracy |
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 30, 2018 21:32:36 GMT
The point in making waga ... You can only do this properly with a democratic vote for a Party that has got a mandate to leave the EU. The Government has sidelined it's responsibility and plunged the country into chaos. Both main parties went in to the last election with the manifesto pledge to leave the Eu Over 80 % of people voted for them There is your mandate You stated in a earlier post that I had accepted rule changes by voting for parties that accepted the treaties being changed Therefore to maintain consistency in your argument we as a country have agreed to leave Seriously. What have you got to worry about if we had another vote? If the vote was remain then it's democratic isn't it. What's the problem?? |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 21:35:47 GMT
Both main parties went in to the last election with the manifesto pledge to leave the Eu Over 80 % of people voted for them There is your mandate You stated in a earlier post that I had accepted rule changes by voting for parties that accepted the treaties being changed Therefore to maintain consistency in your argument we as a country have agreed to leave And we, as a country, have the democratic right to change our minds. That’s the beauty of democracy One was trying to have a reasonable debate with a fellow poster with a different view point And then you post this why ? It adds your usual square root of sod all to a debate But being a kindly soul I will try to humour you We voted in a referendum 52 to 48 % in a referendum to leave A year later we voted in a general election over 80% to leave How regular do you propose these votes to change our minds And out of interest if this country was misguided enough to wish to remain would you continue to campaign for the right for us to change it again to leave |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 21:42:14 GMT
Both main parties went in to the last election with the manifesto pledge to leave the Eu Over 80 % of people voted for them There is your mandate You stated in a earlier post that I had accepted rule changes by voting for parties that accepted the treaties being changed Therefore to maintain consistency in your argument we as a country have agreed to leave Seriously. What have you got to worry about if we had another vote? If the vote was remain then it's democratic isn't it. What's the problem?? Seriously I haven’t got a thing to worry about I’m confident the result would be the same If by chance there was another vote and it was for leave would you except it ? That’s the whole point of democracy you acept the result even if you don’t agree with it |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2018 21:50:54 GMT
And we, as a country, have the democratic right to change our minds. That’s the beauty of democracy One was trying to have a reasonable debate with a fellow poster with a different view point And then you post this why ? It adds your usual square root of sod all to a debate But being a kindly soul I will try to humour you We voted in a referendum 52 to 48 % in a referendum to leave A year later we voted in a general election over 80% to leave How regular do you propose these votes to change our minds And out of interest if this country was misguided enough to wish to remain would you continue to campaign for the right for us to change it again to leave The election wasn’t fought over one issue. And in answer to your final question, everyone should always have a chance to change their minds about things because otherwise you do not have a democratic system. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 30, 2018 22:10:07 GMT
One was trying to have a reasonable debate with a fellow poster with a different view point And then you post this why ? It adds your usual square root of sod all to a debate But being a kindly soul I will try to humour you We voted in a referendum 52 to 48 % in a referendum to leave A year later we voted in a general election over 80% to leave How regular do you propose these votes to change our minds And out of interest if this country was misguided enough to wish to remain would you continue to campaign for the right for us to change it again to leave The election wasn’t fought over one issue. And in answer to your final question, everyone should always have a chance to change their minds about things because otherwise you do not have a democratic system. If you had read through my recent posts you would of realised why I had mentioned the general election How regular do you propose to have these votes to enable us to change our minds on various things |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 2:39:32 GMT
The election wasn’t fought over one issue. And in answer to your final question, everyone should always have a chance to change their minds about things because otherwise you do not have a democratic system. If you had read through my recent posts you would of realised why I had mentioned the general election How regular do you propose to have these votes to enable us to change our minds on various things Maybe we could have one on capitol punishment, I don't know... Say every 3 years? |
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 1, 2018 7:13:46 GMT
You read it you say, damn that must be one big bus, afterall we know brexit voters only believe what is written on the sides of buses apparently Haha just like remainers believe that straight after a leave vote we'd enter a recession, cause ww3, house prices would crash and emergency budget etc...? To be fair the leave campaign couldn't promise you the crap of its shoe should they win, all they could do is provide suggestions on what life outside the eu could deliver. They were not a political party in power in a position to give you promises, because the leaders of the then governing party wanted to remain so would refuse to give any appeal or upsides to leave the EU. If it was a fair vote the government should have been totally honest and impartial. At the least the civil service should have prepared for both outcomes which it did not. Instead Cameron and Osborne were the cheerleaders of remain and fed us all project fear. You bang on about one label on the side of a bus, in my opinion they were in no position to promise that, it was a mere suggestion what we could do and also it never committed 100% of that 350m to the NHS. Just remoan taking things out of context. Mate it was a joke I voted leave, is a whoosh appropriate ? |
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Post by followyoudown on Oct 1, 2018 7:19:00 GMT
£500m a week my arse lol, people campaigning to stay in the EU pluck a number from the air and offer no detail but surprisingly leaving is worse for us even when we haven't even left yet Roll on the 29 March so we don't have to put up with this BS anymore Head in the sand Nope just don't believe frankly ludicrous "models" like this, where is the detailed sector analysis showing where we are worse off showing job losses, factory closures etc etc etc. There is nothing but a headline £500m worse off no details of assumptions or where they they think the economy is worse off. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 1, 2018 7:47:28 GMT
But surely then the rules should not be changed unless by a democratic mandate And since this country joined in the seventies there hasn’t been one single attempt to achieve a democratic mandate from the British people for any of the numerous rule changes Sorry.. Quick change of direction eh waga...? You... voted for a government that sanctioned the Lisbon treaties. Or you didn't. That's democracy. Every four years. We have this system so that people can change their mind and vent their spleen if the tossers haven't been doing what they promised. Referendum are the tools of cowards in Government. We have a situation where the Leader of our elected democratic Goverment doesn't believe in the task she has been given by a referendum. How can that be right? whoa whoa whoa, hold your horses, we were promised a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, Bliar and Brown changed their minds when they won the election, so it wasn't democracry, more like treason, at least Cameron had the balls to follow through on his promise (but nothing after that) Brown didnt even have the balls to show up for the signing photogrpah, making his excuses and turning up 3 hours later so he wouldnt be on it. |
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Post by maxplonk on Oct 1, 2018 7:58:16 GMT
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