|
|
Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 25, 2018 20:43:37 GMT
I was shocked listening to outtakes and interviews with labour attendees! They were selling people’s vote t shirts and stop Brexit literature! On even stated that he was happy this was being addressed because 80% of the membership was anti Brexit.... I was flabbergasted... the majority of labour heartlands in the midlands and the north were leave.. and still are! This could seriously damage the labour vote! Labour‘s issue is that they are listening to the central party’s point of view and basing it on London centric views as it’s easier than actually reaching out to those outside London.. Wow... And Corbyn seems to be coming around to remaining, now. I predicted this would happen; he's so close to power and doesn't want to blow it. I didn't always agree with him, but I preferred him to some of the other MPs in the Labour Party who opposed him, because I thought he was at least genuine and a conviction politician. Now he's lost his U.S.P. It really saddened me to hear him, Starmer and Thornberry today. They have kicked the working class in teeth. I honestly believe his chance has passed... he had a fantastic campaign method in using the power of social media to garner support but I don’t think the opposition will be caught with their pants down so much again. I was never sure about him, there is something „of the night“ about him that doesn’t sit easily with me, more of a protester than a Deliverer. Maybe my judgement is being clouded by his team of Abbott and McDonnell.. as frontline cabinet members they fill me with no confidence whatsoever. Plus the awful actions of momentum... It will be an interesting time to see what happens from an outside view as this could further alienate voters and MPs alike... if they are allowed to be. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 21:42:29 GMT
I don't normally agree with the Liberal Democrats but I believe that Paddy was the best leader that they had in recent times.
I agree with him here
|
|
|
|
Post by thingscouldbemarvellous on Sept 25, 2018 22:41:02 GMT
Just the welsh , French , Germans , Spanish all the rest are tolerable The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 26, 2018 5:24:04 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 26, 2018 5:42:16 GMT
Personally I think that Farage meant that if the decision was close then the argument/ campaign should be continued to be made to leave. What he did not mean was that the result should not be implemented/ reversed / opposed. Much like the Scottish Referendum.. Sturgeon is quite within her rights to continue to make the argument for another Referendum.....a different issue than not accepting the result of the first. I am sure that if it had been 52-48 to Remain we would not still be having the debate about the RESULT ( " Remain didn't really mean Remain" " We did not understand the question" " We weren't asked about the Single market" " Which parts should we remain in , which parts should we leave?"). The debate would be shut down. As Benn said the fight for democracy is never won , but has to be fought again by each generation Other interpretations are possible. What do you think Rip? Should 52-48 mark the end? |
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Sept 26, 2018 5:52:51 GMT
I got my obsession from the EU. it's in every Treaty and is the main objective. Three very important words. Each means something You’d prefer “in perfect isolation” i guess. North Korea are a shining beacon of what we can hope to be like in the future!! Hate your neighbour! More credibility lost with that statement, and to think you just called 52% of the people thick because they voted in a democratic process |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 26, 2018 5:55:56 GMT
You could hold ten referendums and they would all be really close either way.
Britain is,and will be,divided and unhappy.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 26, 2018 6:06:07 GMT
You could hold ten referendums and they would all be really close either way. Britain is,and will be,divided and unhappy. For me Lord that's why I think it is and was one of those binary, IN or Out decisions , that have to be made sometimes. And people knew and know what it meant ... ..that does not stop people arguing for another Referendum BUT the decision should not be undermined just because people did not get what they want.....as promised in the letter we all received, pre-owned Referendum |
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Sept 26, 2018 6:29:55 GMT
Just the welsh , French , Germans , Spanish all the rest are tolerable The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! English 53.4, Cornish 56.5 you thicko  |
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 26, 2018 7:05:42 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 26, 2018 7:09:06 GMT
Personally I think that Farage meant that if the decision was close then the argument/ campaign should be continued to be made to leave. What he did not mean was that the result should not be implemented/ reversed / opposed. Much like the Scottish Referendum.. Sturgeon is quite within her rights to continue to make the argument for another Referendum.....a different issue than not accepting the result of the first. I am sure that if it had been 52-48 to Remain we would not still be having the debate about the RESULT ( " Remain didn't really mean Remain" " We did not understand the question" " We weren't asked about the Single market" " Which parts should we remain in , which parts should we leave?"). The debate would be shut down. As Benn said the fight for democracy is never won , but has to be fought again by each generation Other interpretations are possible. What do you think Rip? Should 52-48 mark the end? No 52-48 shouldn't mark the end. Democracy is an ongoing, never-ending dialogue where things are endlessly debating, revised, and discussed. It's long, painful and slow - but ultimately a pretty decent system. That's why people can still discuss, protest, campaign the unfairness of the first-past-the-post system despite the referendum result of 2010, and it's why people can still discuss, protest, campaign for staying inside certain aspects of the EU (customs union, certain courts etc). I also assume Farage's "unfinished business" would've involved a second referendum at some point - unless he had ideas of leaving the EU without a referendum on it. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 26, 2018 7:16:14 GMT
Personally I think that Farage meant that if the decision was close then the argument/ campaign should be continued to be made to leave. What he did not mean was that the result should not be implemented/ reversed / opposed. Much like the Scottish Referendum.. Sturgeon is quite within her rights to continue to make the argument for another Referendum.....a different issue than not accepting the result of the first. I am sure that if it had been 52-48 to Remain we would not still be having the debate about the RESULT ( " Remain didn't really mean Remain" " We did not understand the question" " We weren't asked about the Single market" " Which parts should we remain in , which parts should we leave?"). The debate would be shut down. As Benn said the fight for democracy is never won , but has to be fought again by each generation Other interpretations are possible. What do you think Rip? Should 52-48 mark the end? No 52-48 shouldn't mark the end. Democracy is an ongoing, never-ending dialogue where things are endlessly debating, revised, and discussed. It's long, painful and slow - but ultimately a pretty decent system. That's why people can still discuss, protest, campaign the unfairness of the first-past-the-post system despite the referendum result of 2010, and it's why people can still discuss, protest, campaign for staying inside certain aspects of the EU (customs union, certain courts etc). I also assume Farage's "unfinished business" would've involved a second referendum at some point - unless he had ideas of leaving the EU without a referendum on it. As I say Rip campaigning for another Referendum is an entirely different issue than respecting and implementing the result of what was promised as " An in or out Referendum, it's your decision, we will implement what you decide" when the question was approved and fully understand PRIOR to the Referendum...AND THEN campaigning for another Referendum. I don't expect you to agree with me which is fine by me and in fact reassuring....no need for us to go in circles. |
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Sept 26, 2018 7:32:05 GMT
The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! Sorry my friend you've just lost all credibility with that last post, calling 17 million BRITISH (not just English) people thick and racist because they voted leave. As for the old chestnut of what was on the side of a bus, where exactly did it say "let's fund all of the £350 million to the NHS"? I like most people interpreted it as we could fund the NHS with extra money from the £350 million. Not all of it. The bus thing was called out at the time and discussed heavily, its an urban myth that people thought it was all going to go there just like the oft repeated claim by remainers that Liam Fox, Davis etc said the deal with the EU would be easy they actually said it SHOULD be easy which is true if the EU wanted to make it that way. Anyway let the remainers keep pointing to these 10 year forecasts of impending doom based on unknown assumptions and final deals produced by the same people who can't even accurately produce a forecast of the yearly budget deficit 6 months in advance. The biggest mistake the remain camp has made is to assume this was either a financial decision or a decision based on immigration it is about taking back control and that is why their arguments still do not cut through. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 26, 2018 7:32:12 GMT
You could hold ten referendums and they would all be really close either way. Britain is,and will be,divided and unhappy. For me Lord that's why I think it is and was one of those binary, IN or Out decisions , that have to be made sometimes. And people knew and know what it meant ... ..that does not stop people arguing for another Referendum BUT the decision should not be undermined just because people did not get what they want.....as promised in the letter we all received, pre-owned Referendum I think there is a case for a referendum on the deal (if there is one). However the point is the Brexit referendum has divided Britain and we would be unhappy whatever the result. |
|
|
|
Post by capto on Sept 26, 2018 16:35:15 GMT
Charles Tannock @charlestannock Brexit has become unnegotiable. Theresa May has a constitutional duty to admit that truth blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/25/brexit-has-become-unnegotiable-theresa-may-has-a-constitutional-duty-to-admit-that-truth/ … I agree with Prof Howorth on the deceit and dishonesty of the Referendum & that it is time to reconsider all options and only a #PeoplesVote can unblock the impasse. Nick Reeves #FinalSayForAll #FBPE @nickreeves9876 Daniel Hannan's IFT says American healthcare companies should be allowed to compete with the NHS to run hospitals as part of a free-trade pact after #Brexit, www.thetimes.co.uk/article/let-american-firms-run-hospitals-urges-free-trade-group-5rxxd9tb8 … This is what they didn't tell us in 2016. They want use #Brexit to abolish the NHS. #PeoplesVote 1. For every £1.00 (0.6% of GDP) we contribute to the EU, the country earns over £10 from membership 2. For every £10 the UK earns, 82%, so £8-20 goes to the top 1% of the population. 3. Everything quitters, leavers, brexiteers, far-right, MSM etc you about the EU is lies 4. Ask the question - why would they lie? |
|
|
|
Post by numpty40 on Sept 26, 2018 17:08:21 GMT
Is it my imagination or have the likes of Blair, Cable, Major, Clegg and all the rest of the elite become less vocal in their remainer campaigning?
Is that due to the fact that they realise that the country despise them and they were actually doing more harm than good to the remainer cause and have instead entrusted their establishment mates to carry the message?
It appears that the establishment in the guise of civil servants and susceptible CEO's have taken on the baton to frighten the country into remaining a part of the EU.
Operation Hysteria is the new Project Fear.
|
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 17:14:26 GMT
The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! Sorry my friend you've just lost all credibility with that last post, calling 17 million BRITISH (not just English) people thick and racist because they voted leave. As for the old chestnut of what was on the side of a bus, where exactly did it say "let's fund all of the £350 million to the NHS"? I like most people interpreted it as we could fund the NHS with extra money from the £350 million. Not all of it. Tongue in cheek! Of course not all of the 52% are think and racist! |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 17:16:05 GMT
Sorry my friend you've just lost all credibility with that last post, calling 17 million BRITISH (not just English) people thick and racist because they voted leave. As for the old chestnut of what was on the side of a bus, where exactly did it say "let's fund all of the £350 million to the NHS"? I like most people interpreted it as we could fund the NHS with extra money from the £350 million. Not all of it. The bus thing was called out at the time and discussed heavily, its an urban myth that people thought it was all going to go there just like the oft repeated claim by remainers that Liam Fox, Davis etc said the deal with the EU would be easy they actually said it SHOULD be easy which is true if the EU wanted to make it that way. Anyway let the remainers keep pointing to these 10 year forecasts of impending doom based on unknown assumptions and final deals produced by the same people who can't even accurately produce a forecast of the yearly budget deficit 6 months in advance. The biggest mistake the remain camp has made is to assume this was either a financial decision or a decision based on immigration it is about taking back control and that is why their arguments still do not cut through. Yes, let’s take back control by having to follow EU regulations if we wish to sell anything there, but let’s have no say in those regulations anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 17:19:28 GMT
For me Lord that's why I think it is and was one of those binary, IN or Out decisions , that have to be made sometimes. And people knew and know what it meant ... ..that does not stop people arguing for another Referendum BUT the decision should not be undermined just because people did not get what they want.....as promised in the letter we all received, pre-owned Referendum I think there is a case for a referendum on the deal (if there is one). However the point is the Brexit referendum has divided Britain and we would be unhappy whatever the result. You’re absolutely right. We weren’t divided until the referendum. They are so divisive. My politics aligns so much with bigjohnritchie and yet we couldn’t possibly be further apart of the EU issue. I suspect he objectively agrees with lots of what the EU does, he just vehemently opposes the depletion of sovereignty and the ever closer union bit. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 17:22:12 GMT
The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. Touched a nerve have I!? It was tongue in cheek, which you’d know if you read the back and forth |
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Sept 26, 2018 17:41:37 GMT
Sorry my friend you've just lost all credibility with that last post, calling 17 million BRITISH (not just English) people thick and racist because they voted leave. As for the old chestnut of what was on the side of a bus, where exactly did it say "let's fund all of the £350 million to the NHS"? I like most people interpreted it as we could fund the NHS with extra money from the £350 million. Not all of it. Tongue in cheek! Of course not all of the 52% are think and racist! *thick |
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 26, 2018 17:44:32 GMT
You’re absolutely right. We weren’t divided until the referendum. They are so divisive. The only people who have made anything divisive are the hard core Remoaners who just can't let go of the fact they lost. None of the Brexiteers have changed in the slightest, likewise the vast majority of decent Remain voters have accepted the result & moved along like adults. The only ones still kicking & screaming, who simply refuse to accept that some other people think differently to them, are the Remoaners. (Ironically these are also the people who're more than likely to call themselves 'progressive' & 'tolerant' & love 'diversity'... Unless it comes to being tolerant towards diverse opinions of course.) |
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Sept 26, 2018 18:02:57 GMT
Tongue in cheek! Of course not all of the 52% are think and racist! *thick And ironic as it turned out unintentionally  |
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Sept 26, 2018 18:05:26 GMT
The bus thing was called out at the time and discussed heavily, its an urban myth that people thought it was all going to go there just like the oft repeated claim by remainers that Liam Fox, Davis etc said the deal with the EU would be easy they actually said it SHOULD be easy which is true if the EU wanted to make it that way. Anyway let the remainers keep pointing to these 10 year forecasts of impending doom based on unknown assumptions and final deals produced by the same people who can't even accurately produce a forecast of the yearly budget deficit 6 months in advance. The biggest mistake the remain camp has made is to assume this was either a financial decision or a decision based on immigration it is about taking back control and that is why their arguments still do not cut through. Yes, let’s take back control by having to follow EU regulations if we wish to sell anything there, but let’s have no say in those regulations anymore. What say do we get in regulations of the USA or china or india ? We still sell there ok without feeling like we are under there control. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 18:16:34 GMT
You’re absolutely right. We weren’t divided until the referendum. They are so divisive. The only people who have made anything divisive are the hard core Remoaners who just can't let go of the fact they lost. None of the Brexiteers have changed in the slightest, likewise the vast majority of decent Remain voters have accepted the result & moved along like adults. The only ones still kicking & screaming, who simply refuse to accept that some other people think differently to them, are the Remoaners. (Ironically these are also the people who're more than likely to call themselves 'progressive' & 'tolerant' & love 'diversity'... Unless it comes to being tolerant towards diverse opinions of course.) I love the way that you are kicking and screaming about me thinking differently to you, whilst criticising “remoaners “ for the same thing. Or are you saying democracy means sitting down and shutting up if you don’t support the popular view at that moment and time??? |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 18:34:39 GMT
Yes, let’s take back control by having to follow EU regulations if we wish to sell anything there, but let’s have no say in those regulations anymore. What say do we get in regulations of the USA or china or india ? We still sell there ok without feeling like we are under there control. We sell far less there than we do in the EU. And there is a lot of investment and business here from outside of the EU as they see the UK as the perfect base to sell to the EU. That of course will end. |
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Sept 26, 2018 18:38:53 GMT
The only people who have made anything divisive are the hard core Remoaners who just can't let go of the fact they lost. None of the Brexiteers have changed in the slightest, likewise the vast majority of decent Remain voters have accepted the result & moved along like adults. The only ones still kicking & screaming, who simply refuse to accept that some other people think differently to them, are the Remoaners. (Ironically these are also the people who're more than likely to call themselves 'progressive' & 'tolerant' & love 'diversity'... Unless it comes to being tolerant towards diverse opinions of course.) I love the way that you are kicking and screaming about me thinking differently to you, whilst criticising “remoaners “ for the same thing. Or are you saying democracy means sitting down and shutting up if you don’t support the popular view at that moment and time??? Sounds like he touched a nerve, Oggster. Unfortunately democracy does mean that once the votes are cast and the results are in the losing side need to put up and shut up until the next opportunity to vote comes along. That's how things used to roll, before the days of social media anyway. Otherwise, we'll be left in a state of anarchy because no election or referendum result anywhere will make everybody happy. |
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Sept 26, 2018 18:50:20 GMT
.  |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 19:14:30 GMT
I love the way that you are kicking and screaming about me thinking differently to you, whilst criticising “remoaners “ for the same thing. Or are you saying democracy means sitting down and shutting up if you don’t support the popular view at that moment and time??? Sounds like he touched a nerve, Oggster. Unfortunately democracy does mean that once the votes are cast and the results are in the losing side need to put up and shut up until the next opportunity to vote comes along. That's how things used to roll, before the days of social media anyway. Otherwise, we'll be left in a state of anarchy because no election or referendum result anywhere will make everybody happy. What can i say, I don’t like hypocrites Absolutely. But that assumes there is going to be another chance to vote. And it also assumes the original vote was clear in the outcome, I don’t mean in terms of numbers, i mean in terms of what the vote was actually for |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 26, 2018 19:15:26 GMT
. Following the Switzerland model would not be a bad thing at all. |
|
