|
|
Post by followyoudown on Sept 25, 2018 10:35:31 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 10:43:34 GMT
You could be right Wizard. I guess it depends to some degree on how much the politicians/ negotiators want to make it an issue. Interesting six months to come. As an aside I can recall being in Naples some years ago and was told by some Neopolitans ( whom I think I could believe) that the corruption of the port, controlled by the Camorra, was off the scale in terms of drugs and weapons coming into Europe. I'd imagine that many on the EE board know more about this than me. Perhaps the EU should try to do something about that.It is only anecdotal but I do believe an issue with' one size fits all, top down EU directives, is that one size doesn't fit all-Largely I think that the Brits do like to keep to the rules/ I'm not sure that's the case in every European country's culture.....and I don't blame them to some degree in that the system does not necessarily work for those at the chalk face It's fairly widely understand that the Camorra have a big amount of control in Naples - to the point where it wouldn't be a case of if they are running illegal goods (some of which I'm sure would come through the port), it's more a case of how much they are doing it. In the south of Italy it's such a big issue that it's become more of a cultural problem than a crime problem - while obviously still being a crime problem. I'm not sure what the EU can do about it, given the Italian government has been completely unable to do anything it for decades - probably due to a mix of incompetence and corruption. I'm also fairly sure if the EU were to override the Italian government and try to intervene there would be a lot of criticism of the EU. Yes Italy's problem..... unless you have open borders across the continent in which it becomes our problem. We are better controlling our own borders. But as you mention cultures, you are correct, they are not the same across Europe and some try to play by the rules more than others.... culturally |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 25, 2018 10:59:32 GMT
It's fairly widely understand that the Camorra have a big amount of control in Naples - to the point where it wouldn't be a case of if they are running illegal goods (some of which I'm sure would come through the port), it's more a case of how much they are doing it. In the south of Italy it's such a big issue that it's become more of a cultural problem than a crime problem - while obviously still being a crime problem. I'm not sure what the EU can do about it, given the Italian government has been completely unable to do anything it for decades - probably due to a mix of incompetence and corruption. I'm also fairly sure if the EU were to override the Italian government and try to intervene there would be a lot of criticism of the EU. Yes Italy's problem..... unless you have open borders across the continent in which it becomes our problem. We are better controlling our own borders. But as you mention cultures, you are correct, they are not the same across Europe and some try to play by the rules more than others.... culturally The Mafia really has nothing to do with the EU, open borders or Schengen. They probably exploit existing conditions, but if the EU fell apart tomorrow you can bet your arse that they would be just as powerful, and they would still be exporting their particular brand of crime-based power worldwide (including to many, many non-EU countries) and would still be using foreign banks (many of which are based in London and turn a tidy profit thanks to this sort of dark, foreign money) to clean their dirty money. In fact, probably the biggest financial threat to the Mafia right now is the EU's clampdown on tax avoidance. No doubt some of these people will find a way to get away with it (as always) but I'd bet it's causing them a few more problems. Anyway, if you've got any evidence that the Mafia have been able flourish because of the EU or open borders, let me know. I'd be genuinely interested to read it. Personally I think the EU has been neither a positive or negative force in this area - the mafia were up and running long before the EU came into existence and, such is the length and breadth of their influence, it's highly unlikely anything the EU could do to stop them would be successful - that's even if the EU had the power to do such things, which they don't. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 11:11:42 GMT
Yes Italy's problem..... unless you have open borders across the continent in which it becomes our problem. We are better controlling our own borders. But as you mention cultures, you are correct, they are not the same across Europe and some try to play by the rules more than others.... culturally The Mafia really has nothing to do with the EU, open borders or Schengen. They probably exploit existing conditions, but if the EU fell apart tomorrow you can bet your arse that they would be just as powerful, and they would still be exporting their particular brand of crime-based power worldwide (including to many, many non-EU countries) and would still be using foreign banks (many of which are based in London and turn a tidy profit thanks to this sort of dark, foreign money) to clean their dirty money. In fact, probably the biggest financial threat to the Mafia right now is the EU's clampdown on tax avoidance. No doubt some of these people will find a way to get away with it (as always) but I'd bet it's causing them a few more problems. Anyway, if you've got any evidence that the Mafia have been able flourish because of the EU or open borders, let me know. I'd be genuinely interested to read it. Personally I think the EU has been neither a positive or negative force in this area - the mafia were up and running long before the EU came into existence and, such is the length and breadth of their influence, it's highly unlikely anything the EU could do to stop them would be successful - that's even if the EU had the power to do such things, which they don't. It's not about the Mafia flourishing, it's about different cultures with different attitudes to the law , and having open borders with insecure outer borders....mind you Merkel's encouragement of mass uncontrolled immigration didn't help either. |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 25, 2018 12:52:37 GMT
The Mafia really has nothing to do with the EU, open borders or Schengen. They probably exploit existing conditions, but if the EU fell apart tomorrow you can bet your arse that they would be just as powerful, and they would still be exporting their particular brand of crime-based power worldwide (including to many, many non-EU countries) and would still be using foreign banks (many of which are based in London and turn a tidy profit thanks to this sort of dark, foreign money) to clean their dirty money. In fact, probably the biggest financial threat to the Mafia right now is the EU's clampdown on tax avoidance. No doubt some of these people will find a way to get away with it (as always) but I'd bet it's causing them a few more problems. Anyway, if you've got any evidence that the Mafia have been able flourish because of the EU or open borders, let me know. I'd be genuinely interested to read it. Personally I think the EU has been neither a positive or negative force in this area - the mafia were up and running long before the EU came into existence and, such is the length and breadth of their influence, it's highly unlikely anything the EU could do to stop them would be successful - that's even if the EU had the power to do such things, which they don't. It's not about the Mafia flourishing, it's about different cultures with different attitudes to the law , and having open borders with insecure outer borders....mind you Merkel's encouragement of mass uncontrolled immigration didn't help either. I'm struggling to follow the thread here - as you suggested the EU should do something about the Mafia, but now it's not about the Mafia flourishing but it's about open door immigration and Merkel's immigration policy. Maybe the two have got mixed up somewhere, but I thought in your original post about Naples you were talking about the Mafia but now you're writing about open door immigration - which doesn't really have anything to do with the Mafia. |
|
|
|
Post by pearo on Sept 25, 2018 13:43:26 GMT
Keir Starmer 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 13:47:03 GMT
It's not about the Mafia flourishing, it's about different cultures with different attitudes to the law , and having open borders with insecure outer borders....mind you Merkel's encouragement of mass uncontrolled immigration didn't help either. I'm struggling to follow the thread here - as you suggested the EU should do something about the Mafia, but now it's not about the Mafia flourishing but it's about open door immigration and Merkel's immigration policy. Maybe the two have got mixed up somewhere, but I thought in your original post about Naples you were talking about the Mafia but now you're writing about open door immigration - which doesn't really have anything to do with the Mafia. Yes Rip , I think you are struggling with it. Again it's pointless carrying on with this one if you don't get it. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Sept 25, 2018 14:03:16 GMT
I'm struggling to follow the thread here - as you suggested the EU should do something about the Mafia, but now it's not about the Mafia flourishing but it's about open door immigration and Merkel's immigration policy. Maybe the two have got mixed up somewhere, but I thought in your original post about Naples you were talking about the Mafia but now you're writing about open door immigration - which doesn't really have anything to do with the Mafia. Yes Rip , I think you are struggling with it. Again it's pointless carrying on with this one if you don't get it. You aren't making much sense to be fair. |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 25, 2018 14:03:31 GMT
I'm struggling to follow the thread here - as you suggested the EU should do something about the Mafia, but now it's not about the Mafia flourishing but it's about open door immigration and Merkel's immigration policy. Maybe the two have got mixed up somewhere, but I thought in your original post about Naples you were talking about the Mafia but now you're writing about open door immigration - which doesn't really have anything to do with the Mafia. Yes Rip , I think you are struggling with it. Again it's pointless carrying on with this one if you don't get it. Right OK, so there really was no logic that I'd missed. You were trying to make a link between the Mafia and the EU - and when asked for some evidence or faced with a contrary opinion started going on about Merkel's open door policy, which had nothing to do with the topic. All nicely topped off with the usual 'you just don't get it' line to make it look like your some sort of enlightened thinker who us thicko mere mortals will never understand. Lovely stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 25, 2018 14:13:50 GMT
I don't really want to speak for BigJohn but I thought the point he was making was that Italy don't really give a shit about the Mafia (Or have just given up any hope of controlling them) So the Mafia have free reign to bring in guns/drugs/people/whatever through the ports they control. This doesn't only affect Italy though, as these guns/drugs/people/whatever can then be dispersed with minimal fuss all over the continent due to the complete lack of borders.
(The same goes for Mamma Merkel's Millions. Thanks to Europe's complete lack of borders they're all now who knows where.)
I could be wrong, and I'm sure BigJohn will correct me if so, but that was my take on the point he was making.
|
|
|
|
Post by pearo on Sept 25, 2018 14:19:37 GMT
Next say if we leave the EU their prices will rise by at least a half of one percent. I’ve just checked 3 things in my wife’s wardrobe that she has bought from Next, they were manufactured in Tunisia, Sri Lanka and China, none of which were in the EU the last time that I checked. More Remain scaremongering by the look of things.
|
|
|
|
Post by felonious on Sept 25, 2018 14:21:44 GMT
I don't really want to speak for BigJohn but I thought the point he was making was that Italy don't really give a shit about the Mafia (Or have just given up any hope of controlling them) So the Mafia have free reign to bring in guns/drugs/people/whatever through the ports they control. This doesn't only affect Italy though, as these guns/drugs/people/whatever can then be dispersed with minimal fuss all over the continent due to the complete lack of borders. (The same goes for Mamma Merkel's Millions. Thanks to Europe's complete lack of borders they're all now who knows where.) I could be wrong, and I'm sure BigJohn will correct me if so, but that was my take on the point he was making. It's obvious to everyone reading his posts apart from those who just want to be difficult and disingenuous perhaps they should get a job in the EU supposing they aren't already there  |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 14:21:48 GMT
Yes Rip , I think you are struggling with it. Again it's pointless carrying on with this one if you don't get it. Right OK, so there really was no logic that I'd missed. You were trying to make a link between the Mafia and the EU - and when asked for some evidence or faced with a contrary opinion started going on about Merkel's open door policy, which had nothing to do with the topic. All nicely topped off with the usual 'you just don't get it' line to make it look like your some sort of enlightened thinker who us thicko mere mortals will never understand. Lovely stuff. The common element is concern about the security of the EU's external borders... Naples is not secure |
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Sept 25, 2018 14:30:01 GMT
Who was it on here that said he was Cornish first, then European?  What have you got against the Cornish? I already know you hate europeans Just the welsh , French , Germans , Spanish all the rest are tolerable |
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 25, 2018 14:37:42 GMT
Right OK, so there really was no logic that I'd missed. You were trying to make a link between the Mafia and the EU - and when asked for some evidence or faced with a contrary opinion started going on about Merkel's open door policy, which had nothing to do with the topic. All nicely topped off with the usual 'you just don't get it' line to make it look like your some sort of enlightened thinker who us thicko mere mortals will never understand. Lovely stuff. The common element is concern about the security of the EU's external borders... Naples is not secure From the Mafia, which is a very Italian problem and not hugely influenced by the country's external borders. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 14:48:58 GMT
The common element is concern about the security of the EU's external borders... Naples is not secure From the Mafia, which is a very Italian problem and not hugely influenced by the country's external borders. The point I'm making isn't a massive one. Simply there is an issue about the security of the Republic of Ireland/ Northern Ireland border(UK), which effectively will also be the EU border. I am saying that the border at Naples is not secure. Also Merkel had caused problems at the Greek and Italian coastal borders (; effectively also the EU's external border). I'm not suggesting or asking for solutions . Just making an observation |
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Sept 25, 2018 15:03:46 GMT
So he's basically twisting the facts, or lying to justify his views ? Is he a politician  I’m just quoting the headline conclusions set out in a table in the report. But you won’t want a fact to get in the way will you! Fake news, everything you disagree with is fake news!!!!!! Best to practice what you preach then, after all the lectures youve put on here in the past. |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2018 16:48:20 GMT
Next say if we leave the EU their prices will rise by at least a half of one percent. I’ve just checked 3 things in my wife’s wardrobe that she has bought from Next, they were manufactured in Tunisia, Sri Lanka and China, none of which were in the EU the last time that I checked. More Remain scaremongering by the look of things. The next boss voted leave i thought. Edit: the next boss was a prominent brexiteer! Are you suggesting that the conspiracy of project reality, sorry, project fear, has gone full circle with now prominent brexiteers warning us of the total screw up we are turning our country into. Out of interest, how do you think things made abroad get here? Do they simply appear hung up in the shop after the child worker has made them? |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2018 16:50:55 GMT
What have you got against the Cornish? I already know you hate europeans Just the welsh , French , Germans , Spanish all the rest are tolerable The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2018 16:51:24 GMT
I’m just quoting the headline conclusions set out in a table in the report. But you won’t want a fact to get in the way will you! Fake news, everything you disagree with is fake news!!!!!! Best to practice what you preach then, after all the lectures youve put on here in the past. I will continue to do so. |
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 25, 2018 16:53:42 GMT
This chap's worth a follow. Union fella, sensible Lefty. Pro Brexit.
|
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2018 16:57:09 GMT
Having studied it at university from a legal perspective I know more than most. You seem to think there is one country called the EU (or imminently there will be anyway!). The Daily Express have been saying that for 10 years or so. Maybe it will be tomorrow it turns into a superstate. I don't think that you do Oggy. For what it's worth I'm not certain ( who can ever be certain of the future) that it will ever materialise in the way you seem to understand it, but that's not the point. it's a process. "Ever closer union" is an extremely accurate expression of the first, main objective to which all others converge. Bit by bit getting closer , with control from the centre. That's what you are arguing for. That's what the EU stands for and aims for. Political and economic union. They mean it. The " abolition" of the nation state and the emergence of a United States of Europe. It's not just me saying this , the leaders of the EU are saying it and others like us who've studied it , and observed it's growth. All the signs and elements are there. The reason I don't think it will work are probably different from yours.... people like self determination in their lives not dictatorial approaches, particularly if they are detached from the system. Plus the cultures/ values/ economic systems across Europe are not the same. But where it ends is not the important debate now.....it's the direction of travel . You are arguing to be a member of an organisation that explicitly believes in those things.....it has taken power and is working towards a United States of Europe. There are other, better ways for European countries to cooperate. You are totally obsessed by ever closer union! I really want to reassure you, the nations within the EU will never merge into one nation. They have different cultures, values and economic systems. Those aren’t my words...they are someone’s who is very wise. Plus no nation in the EU wants a one nation state. I wish we could go back 3 years when most people in the country didn’t care about the EU because it didn’t actually negatively effect any of us and all the positives were taken for granted. |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 16:58:59 GMT
I don't think that you do Oggy. For what it's worth I'm not certain ( who can ever be certain of the future) that it will ever materialise in the way you seem to understand it, but that's not the point. it's a process. "Ever closer union" is an extremely accurate expression of the first, main objective to which all others converge. Bit by bit getting closer , with control from the centre. That's what you are arguing for. That's what the EU stands for and aims for. Political and economic union. They mean it. The " abolition" of the nation state and the emergence of a United States of Europe. It's not just me saying this , the leaders of the EU are saying it and others like us who've studied it , and observed it's growth. All the signs and elements are there. The reason I don't think it will work are probably different from yours.... people like self determination in their lives not dictatorial approaches, particularly if they are detached from the system. Plus the cultures/ values/ economic systems across Europe are not the same. But where it ends is not the important debate now.....it's the direction of travel . You are arguing to be a member of an organisation that explicitly believes in those things.....it has taken power and is working towards a United States of Europe. There are other, better ways for European countries to cooperate. You are totally obsessed by ever closer union! I really want to reassure you, the nations within the EU will never merge into one nation. They have different cultures, values and economic systems. Those aren’t my words...they are someone’s who is very wise. Plus no nation in the EU wants a one nation state. I wish we could go back 3 years when most people in the country didn’t care about the EU because it didn’t actually negatively effect any of us and all the positives were taken for granted. I got my obsession from the EU. it's in every Treaty and is the main objective. Three very important words. Each means something |
|
|
|
Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2018 17:08:45 GMT
You are totally obsessed by ever closer union! I really want to reassure you, the nations within the EU will never merge into one nation. They have different cultures, values and economic systems. Those aren’t my words...they are someone’s who is very wise. Plus no nation in the EU wants a one nation state. I wish we could go back 3 years when most people in the country didn’t care about the EU because it didn’t actually negatively effect any of us and all the positives were taken for granted. I got my obsession from the EU. it's in every Treaty and is the main objective. Three very important words. Each means something You’d prefer “in perfect isolation” i guess. North Korea are a shining beacon of what we can hope to be like in the future!! Hate your neighbour! |
|
|
|
Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 17:42:37 GMT
I got my obsession from the EU. it's in every Treaty and is the main objective. Three very important words. Each means something You’d prefer “in perfect isolation” i guess. North Korea are a shining beacon of what we can hope to be like in the future!! Hate your neighbour! Not at all.Im all for genuine cooperation and respect. But the EU is about the centralisation of power and the direction of travel is towards a United States of Europe, Political and Economic union. I don't want that. |
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Sept 25, 2018 17:48:08 GMT
I don't think that you do Oggy. For what it's worth I'm not certain ( who can ever be certain of the future) that it will ever materialise in the way you seem to understand it, but that's not the point. it's a process. "Ever closer union" is an extremely accurate expression of the first, main objective to which all others converge. Bit by bit getting closer , with control from the centre. That's what you are arguing for. That's what the EU stands for and aims for. Political and economic union. They mean it. The " abolition" of the nation state and the emergence of a United States of Europe. It's not just me saying this , the leaders of the EU are saying it and others like us who've studied it , and observed it's growth. All the signs and elements are there. The reason I don't think it will work are probably different from yours.... people like self determination in their lives not dictatorial approaches, particularly if they are detached from the system. Plus the cultures/ values/ economic systems across Europe are not the same. But where it ends is not the important debate now.....it's the direction of travel . You are arguing to be a member of an organisation that explicitly believes in those things.....it has taken power and is working towards a United States of Europe. There are other, better ways for European countries to cooperate. You are totally obsessed by ever closer union! I really want to reassure you, the nations within the EU will never merge into one nation. They have different cultures, values and economic systems. Those aren’t my words...they are someone’s who is very wise. Plus no nation in the EU wants a one nation state. I wish we could go back 3 years when most people in the country didn’t care about the EU because it didn’t actually negatively effect any of us and all the positives were taken for granted. All the reasons you give are the reasons we SHOULDNT have an integrated Europe. The one reason why it will inevitably happen is simple , it's called the single currency . For it to work properly the economy's of the euro zone will have to merge and will inevitably be controlled from Frankfurt , we saw it with the Greek dept crisis . Germany was behind the bailout and all of the shit that the citizens of Greece had to put up with |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 17:57:32 GMT
Just the welsh , French , Germans , Spanish all the rest are tolerable The English are the worst. 52% are thick racists who will believe whatever is written on the side of a bus! Sorry my friend you've just lost all credibility with that last post, calling 17 million BRITISH (not just English) people thick and racist because they voted leave. As for the old chestnut of what was on the side of a bus, where exactly did it say "let's fund all of the £350 million to the NHS"? I like most people interpreted it as we could fund the NHS with extra money from the £350 million. Not all of it. |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 25, 2018 18:15:34 GMT
This chap's worth a follow. Union fella, sensible Lefty. Pro Brexit. Hopefully those Labour voters will stand by their principles and vote for someone else. I have heard a few say that they can't vote Labour if they go against Brexit. Labour deserves to be abandoned for this. |
|
|
|
Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Sept 25, 2018 20:12:54 GMT
This chap's worth a follow. Union fella, sensible Lefty. Pro Brexit. Hopefully those Labour voters will stand by their principles and vote for someone else. I have heard a few say that they can't vote Labour if they go against Brexit. Labour deserves to be abandoned for this. I was shocked listening to outtakes and interviews with labour attendees! They were selling people’s vote t shirts and stop Brexit literature! On even stated that he was happy this was being addressed because 80% of the membership was anti Brexit.... I was flabbergasted... the majority of labour heartlands in the midlands and the north were leave.. and still are! This could seriously damage the labour vote! Labour‘s issue is that they are listening to the central party’s point of view and basing it on London centric views as it’s easier than actually reaching out to those outside London.. Wow... |
|
|
|
Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 25, 2018 20:33:58 GMT
Hopefully those Labour voters will stand by their principles and vote for someone else. I have heard a few say that they can't vote Labour if they go against Brexit. Labour deserves to be abandoned for this. I was shocked listening to outtakes and interviews with labour attendees! They were selling people’s vote t shirts and stop Brexit literature! On even stated that he was happy this was being addressed because 80% of the membership was anti Brexit.... I was flabbergasted... the majority of labour heartlands in the midlands and the north were leave.. and still are! This could seriously damage the labour vote! Labour‘s issue is that they are listening to the central party’s point of view and basing it on London centric views as it’s easier than actually reaching out to those outside London.. Wow... And Corbyn seems to be coming around to remaining, now. I predicted this would happen; he's so close to power and doesn't want to blow it. I didn't always agree with him, but I preferred him to some of the other MPs in the Labour Party who opposed him, because I thought he was at least genuine and a conviction politician. Now he's lost his U.S.P. It really saddened me to hear him, Starmer and Thornberry today. They have kicked the working class in teeth. |
|
