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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 8:09:06 GMT
Please have a listen to this.
Verhostadt is talking in the EU PARLIAMENT which obviously is one of the instruments of the EU. He is therefore talking POLITICALLY on BEHALF of all the members( the UK). And Verhostadt carries alot of weight in the EU.
I don't think some people realise how far we have moved along the road. This man WANTS to speak for Europe as a United States of Europe and actually already presumes to do so.
( That is irrespective of whether you agree or not with what he is actually saying)
( Title's a bit loaded)
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 24, 2018 9:11:52 GMT
Please have a listen to this. Verhostadt is talking in the EU PARLIAMENT which obviously is one of the instruments of the EU. He is therefore talking POLITICALLY on BEHALF of all the members( the UK). And Verhostadt carries alot of weight in the EU. I don't think some people realise how far we have moved along the road. This man WANTS to speak for Europe as a United States of Europe and actually already presumes to do so. ( That is irrespective of whether you agree or not with what he is actually saying) ( Title's a bit loaded) He doesn't speak for all of the EU members when he talks in the EU Parliament, no more than Farage represent all EU countries when he talks in the EU Parliament. I don't particularly like the guy, even though I probably broadly share some of his political views, but in this video he's doing his job. The EU Parliament is there to debate and vote on issues - and he has been elected to go there and debate issues, which is what he's doing in this video. You say that by doing so, he is representing all members of the EU - but that is not correct. He is representing the people who voted for him to be in the EU Parliament, similar to how Dennis Skinner represents the electorate of Bolsover in the House of Commons when he stands up to give a speech. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 9:19:28 GMT
Please have a listen to this. Verhostadt is talking in the EU PARLIAMENT which obviously is one of the instruments of the EU. He is therefore talking POLITICALLY on BEHALF of all the members( the UK). And Verhostadt carries alot of weight in the EU. I don't think some people realise how far we have moved along the road. This man WANTS to speak for Europe as a United States of Europe and actually already presumes to do so. ( That is irrespective of whether you agree or not with what he is actually saying) ( Title's a bit loaded) He doesn't speak for all of the EU members when he talks in the EU Parliament, no more than Farage represent all EU countries when he talks in the EU Parliament. I don't particularly like the guy, even though I probably broadly share some of his political views, but in this video he's doing his job. The EU Parliament is there to debate and vote on issues - and he has been elected to go there and debate issues, which is what he's doing in this video. You say that by doing so, he is representing all members of the EU - but that is not correct. He is representing the people who voted for him to be in the EU Parliament, similar to how Dennis Skinner represents the electorate of Bolsover in the House of Commons when he stands up to give a speech. If you trace what he does, where he goes the forums he speaks on I think that you will find that he does. He is Avery powerful man in the EU and like the 5 presidents and Merkel he does ( presume to but in actuality) to speak for the EU. He is in a completely different league than Farage in respect of leadership in the EUYou will agree though Rip that it is absolutely transparent that POLITICAL issues are being discussed, policies developed by the EU in parliament. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 9:20:15 GMT
Totally political
He makes his intentions absolutely clear when he was prime minister of Belgium
" It's a direction of history"... United States of Europe, inevitable
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 24, 2018 9:33:14 GMT
Well all is becoming a lot clearer now
Are main opposition party the socialist shitehawks have cleared up there confusion over there brexit policy
If there is no election which there won’t be well they might support another referendum which will ask the question
Do you want to be in and out at the same time
This after much deliberation and several purges later the inner politburo has decided to call it
THE HOKEY KOKEY position 1 the one is there so Abbott’ doesn’t get to confused
In a statement the shitehawk in chief stated I hope this clears up any confusion and reassures all our northern muppets no sorry voters that were not about to shit on them
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 24, 2018 9:35:28 GMT
Totally political He makes his intentions absolutely clear when he was prime minister of Belgium " It's a direction of history"... United States of Europe, inevitable I think we've discussed this before, and fairly sure I've watched all three videos before (certainly two of them). My point has not changed since the last time we spoke - what you seem to be wanting is for him to shut up and not do his job. Which, given he's an elected politician, I think is hugely anti-democratic. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 24, 2018 9:39:07 GMT
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 24, 2018 9:45:27 GMT
Possibly linked to Len McCluskey's intervention, Rip? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 9:47:25 GMT
Totally political He makes his intentions absolutely clear when he was prime minister of Belgium " It's a direction of history"... United States of Europe, inevitable I think we've discussed this before, and fairly sure I've watched all three videos before (certainly two of them). My point has not changed since the last time we spoke - what you seem to be wanting is for him to shut up and not do his job. Which, given he's an elected politician, I think is hugely anti-democratic. Not at all. Just making the simple point that the EU is about Political union and Verhostadt, a very influential and powerful man within the EU makes it very clear. And he does carry weight and presume to speak for the EU on political forums ( and says very little about trade deals) . Just as long as we know what we are talking about when we talk about the EU... Ever Closer Political and Economic Union |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 24, 2018 9:52:38 GMT
Possibly linked to Len McCluskey's intervention, Rip? No idea where it comes from, although McCluskey also seems to be in favour of not having remain on any proposed ballot paper. It just seems like the most obvious, sensible, moderate solution to me, given the current state of affairs. |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 24, 2018 10:31:00 GMT
Possibly linked to Len McCluskey's intervention, Rip? No idea where it comes from, although McCluskey also seems to be in favour of not having remain on any proposed ballot paper. It just seems like the most obvious, sensible, moderate solution to me, given the current state of affairs. It's not often you see the words McCluskey and moderate close together. We are living in strange times! |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 10:36:33 GMT
So you think the EU will allow potentially substandard (illegal) products to be sold there through N Ire when they don’t elsewhere? Or vice versa in the event our regulations are of higher quality? Customs checks don’t need a 50ft high perimeter fence. I’m not sure you’ve answered my question. Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? . Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about?[/quote] Partick Good point It does focus the mind when issues are addressed pragmatically. It may be that the border is ' insecure'( in the eyes of some) for a period of time as 'ever further disentanglement' progresses after we leave. Hypothetically though,if we weren't already a member and neither were the Republic , would that mean that the UK nor the Republic could join if the other did not... because of the border? As an aside the issue is about how the UK ' governs ' itself. I'm not sure about evolved governments ( as opposed to independence)as such ( you'll know more about this than me) myself but if they seem to be working ( for some) I suppose that must be fine(I guess that the Scottish Nationalists wouldn't agree.....and Stormont isn't working at the moment) Do you think that devolved Parliaments work Partick? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 13:00:48 GMT
Guy is much more than a "back bencher"
We need to be careful of this man IMHO. He really cannot tolerate ANY other view/ comment against a United States of Europe, will not listen, dictates that everything MUST. conform to this goal.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 24, 2018 13:56:33 GMT
I’m not sure you’ve answered my question. Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? . Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? Partick Good point It does focus the mind when issues are addressed pragmatically. It may be that the border is ' insecure'( in the eyes of some) for a period of time as 'ever further disentanglement' progresses after we leave. Hypothetically though,if we weren't already a member and neither were the Republic , would that mean that the UK nor the Republic could join if the other did not... because of the border? As an aside the issue is about how the UK ' governs ' itself. I'm not sure about evolved governments ( as opposed to independence)as such ( you'll know more about this than me) myself but if they seem to be working ( for some) I suppose that must be fine(I guess that the Scottish Nationalists wouldn't agree.....and Stormont isn't working at the moment) Do you think that devolved Parliaments work Partick? [/quote] It depends! I'm a believer in the idea that "Less is More" and that definitely applies to Government. So for devolution to work, we need to see very effective separation of powers between Holyrood and Westminster which generally has been the case with one significant exception - the role of Scottish MPs in Westminster which is now diminished (because of the powers devolved to Scotland) but whose numbers (and cost) hasn't. This does need sorting at some point. But back to the question of a border in Ireland - the reason why it is so hard to answer who will physically put one in place is noone will do it. So the Irish border question is entirely bogus. It's an example of Brussels looking for reasons not to negotiate fairly with the U.K. because they are shameless, self-interested theocrats. They care nothing for people; it's their ideas that matter - even when it is shit for people. Ask the Greeks for their thoughts on this there are any doubts. |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 24, 2018 14:35:14 GMT
. Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? Partick Good point It does focus the mind when issues are addressed pragmatically. It may be that the border is ' insecure'( in the eyes of some) for a period of time as 'ever further disentanglement' progresses after we leave. Hypothetically though,if we weren't already a member and neither were the Republic , would that mean that the UK nor the Republic could join if the other did not... because of the border? As an aside the issue is about how the UK ' governs ' itself. I'm not sure about evolved governments ( as opposed to independence)as such ( you'll know more about this than me) myself but if they seem to be working ( for some) I suppose that must be fine(I guess that the Scottish Nationalists wouldn't agree.....and Stormont isn't working at the moment) Do you think that devolved Parliaments work Partick? It depends! I'm a believer in the idea that "Less is More" and that definitely applies to Government. So for devolution to work, we need to see very effective separation of powers between Holyrood and Westminster which generally has been the case with one significant exception - the role of Scottish MPs in Westminster which is now diminished (because of the powers devolved to Scotland) but whose numbers (and cost) hasn't. This does need sorting at some point. But back to the question of a border in Ireland - the reason why it is so hard to answer who will physically put one in place is noone will do it. So the Irish border question is entirely bogus. It's an example of Brussels looking for reasons not to negotiate fairly with the U.K. because they are shameless, self-interested theocrats. They care nothing for people; it's their ideas that matter - even when it is shit for people. Ask the Greeks for their thoughts on this there are any doubts.[/quote] Been saying this for months the whole border issue is just a diversion tactic, it's an issue easily solved with goodwill on both sides . The government of Ireland are doing their level best to make brexit as tricky as possible, when in fact if we do leave with no deal they are the ones who will suffer more than any other |
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Post by felonious on Sept 24, 2018 16:23:55 GMT
Cameron got a majority by getting less than 25% of the possible votes It must be distressing for a fully paid up EU member like you to see the appalling record at EU elections across the member states. It makes a mockery of any thoughts of real democracy within the chamber. Shocking figures apart from Belgium and Luxembourg.
www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-turnout.htm
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Post by capto on Sept 24, 2018 16:37:18 GMT
Carole CadwalladrVerified account @carolecadwalla · NEW: significant intervention by tom_watson on the ‘new Cold War’ that ‘Russia is winning’. Demands answers from govt on what intel services knew about @arron_banks’ Russian dealings. Did Theresa May block investigation? www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/23/tom-watson-uk-on-frontier-of-new-cold-war-that-russia-is-winning1. For every £1.00 (0.6% of GDP) we contribute to the EU, the country earns over £10 from membership 2. For every £10 the UK earns, 82%, so £8-20 goes to the top 1% of the population. 3. Everything quitters, leavers, brexiteers, far-right, MSM etc you about the EU is lies 4. Ask the question - why would they lie? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 17:20:22 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 24, 2018 19:33:57 GMT
So you think the EU will allow potentially substandard (illegal) products to be sold there through N Ire when they don’t elsewhere? Or vice versa in the event our regulations are of higher quality? Customs checks don’t need a 50ft high perimeter fence. I’m not sure you’ve answered my question. Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? The EU will perform checks on people and products coming in if we no longer have free movement or are in the customs union |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 24, 2018 19:36:05 GMT
Cameron got a majority by getting less than 25% of the possible votes It must be distressing for a fully paid up EU member like you to see the appalling record at EU elections across the member states. It makes a mockery of any thoughts of real democracy within the chamber. Shocking figures apart from Belgium and Luxembourg.
www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-turnout.htm
It’s awful when a democratic election gets a low turnout. The people to blame are those not exercising their democratic right to vote which many millions of people across the world have died for over the years. Shame on anyone who doesn’t vote. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 24, 2018 19:39:15 GMT
It’s never going to happen. Before the EU under Nazi germany we were close to a one nation europe. The EU has massively reduced the chances of there ever being a one nation europe. If the EU’s goal was command and conquer, why hasn’t it invited every nation on earth to join? I honestly don't think that you understand the EU Oggy Having studied it at university from a legal perspective I know more than most. You seem to think there is one country called the EU (or imminently there will be anyway!). The Daily Express have been saying that for 10 years or so. Maybe it will be tomorrow it turns into a superstate. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 24, 2018 19:40:16 GMT
I honestly don't think that you understand the EU Oggy Who was it on here that said he was Cornish first, then European?  What have you got against the Cornish? I already know you hate europeans  |
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Post by felonious on Sept 24, 2018 19:52:13 GMT
Who was it on here that said he was Cornish first, then European? What have you got against the Cornish? I already know you hate europeans Whoever it was I'm sure deleted it before I had chance to quote presumably having issues with his convictions  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 20:01:35 GMT
I honestly don't think that you understand the EU Oggy Having studied it at university from a legal perspective I know more than most. You seem to think there is one country called the EU (or imminently there will be anyway!). The Daily Express have been saying that for 10 years or so. Maybe it will be tomorrow it turns into a superstate. I don't think that you do Oggy. For what it's worth I'm not certain ( who can ever be certain of the future) that it will ever materialise in the way you seem to understand it, but that's not the point. it's a process. "Ever closer union" is an extremely accurate expression of the first, main objective to which all others converge. Bit by bit getting closer , with control from the centre. That's what you are arguing for. That's what the EU stands for and aims for. Political and economic union. They mean it. The " abolition" of the nation state and the emergence of a United States of Europe. It's not just me saying this , the leaders of the EU are saying it and others like us who've studied it , and observed it's growth. All the signs and elements are there. The reason I don't think it will work are probably different from yours.... people like self determination in their lives not dictatorial approaches, particularly if they are detached from the system. Plus the cultures/ values/ economic systems across Europe are not the same. But where it ends is not the important debate now.....it's the direction of travel . You are arguing to be a member of an organisation that explicitly believes in those things.....it has taken power and is working towards a United States of Europe. There are other, better ways for European countries to cooperate. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 24, 2018 20:17:59 GMT
It must be distressing for a fully paid up EU member like you to see the appalling record at EU elections across the member states. It makes a mockery of any thoughts of real democracy within the chamber. Shocking figures apart from Belgium and Luxembourg.
www.ukpolitical.info/european-parliament-election-turnout.htm
It’s awful when a democratic election gets a low turnout. The people to blame are those not exercising their democratic right to vote which many millions of people across the world have died for over the years. Shame on anyone who doesn’t vote. Except in a referendum, when they are derided for exercising that right and voting the "wrong" way. |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 24, 2018 21:29:17 GMT
I’m not sure you’ve answered my question. Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? The EU will perform checks on people and products coming in if we no longer have free movement or are in the customs union Hmmmm - yes, that's the only answer. I wonder if they are familiar with Ireland's history. |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Sept 25, 2018 8:43:14 GMT
Great twitter thread here.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 25, 2018 8:57:40 GMT
Leave means leave, John, the only question up for debate is HOW we leave. Despite what Harry says above I still believe that the Irish border will be a major problem. The fact that the DUP are propping up The Tories adds another layer of complications. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 25, 2018 9:36:40 GMT
Leave means leave, John, the only question up for debate is HOW we leave. Despite what Harry says above I still believe that the Irish border will be a major problem. The fact that the DUP are propping up The Tories adds another layer of complications. You could be right Wizard. I guess it depends to some degree on how much the politicians/ negotiators want to make it an issue. Interesting six months to come. As an aside I can recall being in Naples some years ago and was told by some Neopolitans ( whom I think I could believe) that the corruption of the port, controlled by the Camorra, was off the scale in terms of drugs and weapons coming into Europe. I'd imagine that many on the EE board know more about this than me. Perhaps the EU should try to do something about that.It is only anecdotal but I do believe an issue with' one size fits all, top down EU directives, is that one size doesn't fit all-Largely I think that the Brits do like to keep to the rules/ I'm not sure that's the case in every European country's culture.....and I don't blame them to some degree in that the system does not necessarily work for those at the chalk face |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Sept 25, 2018 9:47:57 GMT
Leave means leave, John, the only question up for debate is HOW we leave. Despite what Harry says above I still believe that the Irish border will be a major problem. The fact that the DUP are propping up The Tories adds another layer of complications. You could be right Wizard. I guess it depends to some degree on how much the politicians/ negotiators want to make it an issue. Interesting six months to come. As an aside I can recall being in Naples some years ago and was told by some Neopolitans ( whom I think I could believe) that the corruption of the port, controlled by the Camorra, was off the scale in terms of drugs and weapons coming into Europe. I'd imagine that many on the EE board know more about this than me. Perhaps the EU should try to do something about that.It is only anecdotal but I do believe an issue with' one size fits all, top down EU directives, is that one size doesn't fit all-Largely I think that the Brits do like to keep to the rules/ I'm not sure that's the case in every European country's culture.....and I don't blame them to some degree in that the system does not necessarily work for those at the chalk face It's fairly widely understand that the Camorra have a big amount of control in Naples - to the point where it wouldn't be a case of if they are running illegal goods (some of which I'm sure would come through the port), it's more a case of how much they are doing it. In the south of Italy it's such a big issue that it's become more of a cultural problem than a crime problem - while obviously still being a crime problem. I'm not sure what the EU can do about it, given the Italian government has been completely unable to do anything it for decades - probably due to a mix of incompetence and corruption. I'm also fairly sure if the EU were to override the Italian government and try to intervene there would be a lot of criticism of the EU. |
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