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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:59:14 GMT
The Irish issue is being used to try to ensure that the UK cannot leave. The Irish question does not and should not mean that the UK cannot be a sovereign independent country. Some things are not easy, but that does not mean that they should not be done. At worst in the short term it would be an insecure border..... possibly a bigger problem for the EU. Rees Mogg and Davies have out forward a workable solution. Do you now believe in ever closer union towards a United States of Europe? Do you still believe that EU regulations and directives are irrelevant. Do you oppose everything that Guy Verhostadt says? The Swiss borders with the EU are open and use a lot of technology to monitor trade goods . It seems this system is workable and in use despite Barnier saying it's unworkable Yes, they are a EFTA member. We should do the same |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 14:01:22 GMT
So you want a hard border with Ireland and to rip up the GFA? Interesting. WTO will not be good for us at all. Frankly I don't care about the border it's a red herring I wonder how the people of N Ire (remain voters) would feel about that approach! It won’t just go away if you close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears! |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 14:01:54 GMT
The Irish issue is being used to try to ensure that the UK cannot leave. The Irish question does not and should not mean that the UK cannot be a sovereign independent country. Some things are not easy, but that does not mean that they should not be done. At worst in the short term it would be an insecure border..... possibly a bigger problem for the EU. Rees Mogg and Davies have out forward a workable solution. Do you now believe in ever closer union towards a United States of Europe? Do you still believe that EU regulations and directives are irrelevant. Do you oppose everything that Guy Verhostadt says? Rees-Mogg wants to follow EU rules to prevent a hard border. He wants to be a rule taker. Then if the EU changes their rules we have a hard border and no more GFA, unless we change our rules to match theirs. Davis’ Canada style agreement doesn’t alifn customs and so creates a hard border. As I say the Irish question should not be used to deny our sovereignty and democracy. What about my other questions? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 23, 2018 14:13:25 GMT
Do you vote in the UK elections or are they an irrelevance?  I always vote. But usually my vote is an irrelevance because of our first past the post electoral system which means getting 25% of the vote can give you a big majority. That I do agree with. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 14:32:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 15:19:38 GMT
Saw a bit of the Andrew Marr show this morning. They were saying that some of the string pullers' behind the Tory party, are having a special meeting during the Tory party conference, to tell May to drop this Chequers paper business, or words to that effect. Whosoever they may be, they are not happy with her, or it!
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Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2018 15:23:16 GMT
Because corbyn has always been a fierce opponent of the EU , it now suits his political aspirations to change track . The Irish border question is just the EU commission weaponisation of this issue it now seems to be a pre condition of a deal without any real basis in fact . The EU have suggested the border issue could spark paramilitary conflict again . Nobody else has said this , certainly not any of the parties involved I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? Give Northern Ireland to the Irish. The Protestant minority in Ulster whatever they are,they aren't British. |
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Post by hoffgreen on Sept 23, 2018 16:01:29 GMT
What an absolute shower our politicians are.... from all sides....
We need to resuscitate Oliver Cromwell!
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Post by M on Sept 23, 2018 16:41:53 GMT
I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? Give Northern Ireland to the Irish. The Protestant minority in Ulster whatever they are,they aren't British. I actually think that’s the only workable solution. That said, no government wants to be the government that does precisely that. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Sept 23, 2018 16:50:14 GMT
A few years back we had a vote where one party ran on giving us a referendum on the EU - This party won that vote.
The party in question then, for once, stood by their promise & gave us the referendum on the EU - The vote which won was 'Leave'.
We then had another vote where the two parties backing the 'Leave' vote took an overwhelming share of the vote - And the party which oppossed it got pretty much naff all.
In the bizarre world that Remoaners live in this was all utterly undemocratic.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 17:15:41 GMT
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Post by Northy on Sept 23, 2018 18:21:57 GMT
Give it to Scotland, it used to be pictland Electronic borders like there are between Estonia and Russia, it works there so the software and surveillance equipment is proven already I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? Give Northern Ireland to the Irish. The Protestant minority in Ulster whatever they are,they aren't British. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 18:32:23 GMT
Rees-Mogg wants to follow EU rules to prevent a hard border. He wants to be a rule taker. Then if the EU changes their rules we have a hard border and no more GFA, unless we change our rules to match theirs. Davis’ Canada style agreement doesn’t alifn customs and so creates a hard border. As I say the Irish question should not be used to deny our sovereignty and democracy. What about my other questions? I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 18:36:50 GMT
I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? Give Northern Ireland to the Irish. The Protestant minority in Ulster whatever they are,they aren't British. I don’t disagree that logically it should be one unified nation. But it would probably lead to significant violence and you and I know that won’t happen. PlusI am not sure what the party in government, the DUP would make of that suggestion! I don’t think May could get that suggestion through Parliament even with a unified Tory party! |
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Post by felonious on Sept 23, 2018 18:37:47 GMT
Do you vote in the UK elections or are they an irrelevance? I always vote. But usually my vote is an irrelevance because of our first past the post electoral system which means getting 25% of the vote can give you a big majority. That's right 42% of the vote gave Mrs May a massive majority. 25% barely gets you second place.
www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/uktable.htm
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 19:18:48 GMT
As I say the Irish question should not be used to deny our sovereignty and democracy. What about my other questions? I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). If you don't believe in Ever Closer Union towards a United States of Europe then you don't believe in the EU. Verhostadt is one of the main spokespersons for the Ezu and this mantra as you call it is the main objective of the EU. Verhostadt is in line with Merkel, Tuck, Selmayr, Juncker , Weber, Barnier etc etc . Your version of the EU project ( don't its a work in progress) doesn't actually exist. It would be much simpler and easier for your arguments if you stepped in line and said that a United States of Europe would be s good thing |
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 23, 2018 19:43:50 GMT
As I say the Irish question should not be used to deny our sovereignty and democracy. What about my other questions? I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). Question for you. Who is going to build the customs checkpoints that will make a hard border in NI? The British - no The Irish - unlikely Which leaves who? |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 23, 2018 20:39:55 GMT
I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). Question for you. Who is going to build the customs checkpoints that will make a hard border in NI? The British - no The Irish - unlikely Which leaves who? The Donald? |
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Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2018 21:25:36 GMT
Give Northern Ireland to the Irish. The Protestant minority in Ulster whatever they are,they aren't British. I don’t disagree that logically it should be one unified nation. But it would probably lead to significant violence and you and I know that won’t happen. PlusI am not sure what the party in government, the DUP would make of that suggestion! I don’t think May could get that suggestion through Parliament even with a unified Tory party! Indeed tail will wag the dog. |
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Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2018 21:26:36 GMT
I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). Question for you. Who is going to build the customs checkpoints that will make a hard border in NI? The British - no The Irish - unlikely Which leaves who? The Irish would have to if they want (& they do) enjoy the benefits of being in the EU. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 22:15:08 GMT
I always vote. But usually my vote is an irrelevance because of our first past the post electoral system which means getting 25% of the vote can give you a big majority. That's right 42% of the vote gave Mrs May a massive majority. 25% barely gets you second place.
www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/uktable.htm
Cameron got a majority by getting less than 25% of the possible votes |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 22:20:31 GMT
I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). Question for you. Who is going to build the customs checkpoints that will make a hard border in NI? The British - no The Irish - unlikely Which leaves who? So you think the EU will allow potentially substandard (illegal) products to be sold there through N Ire when they don’t elsewhere? Or vice versa in the event our regulations are of higher quality? Customs checks don’t need a 50ft high perimeter fence. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 22:23:07 GMT
I believe ever closer union is a mantra of the EU. I don’t believe there will ever be a united states of europe. I don’t believe everything Ver-whatshisface says. What are you referring to specifically? What were your other questions? So you want to (or are willing to) rip up the GFA and have a hard border in Ireland to leave the EU? Doing so would lead to massive problems in N ire (mostly remain voters remember) including an inevitable push to break up the UK (as would Scotland with a hard brexit). If you don't believe in Ever Closer Union towards a United States of Europe then you don't believe in the EU. Verhostadt is one of the main spokespersons for the Ezu and this mantra as you call it is the main objective of the EU. Verhostadt is in line with Merkel, Tuck, Selmayr, Juncker , Weber, Barnier etc etc . Your version of the EU project ( don't its a work in progress) doesn't actually exist. It would be much simpler and easier for your arguments if you stepped in line and said that a United States of Europe would be s good thing It’s never going to happen. Before the EU under Nazi germany we were close to a one nation europe. The EU has massively reduced the chances of there ever being a one nation europe. If the EU’s goal was command and conquer, why hasn’t it invited every nation on earth to join? |
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Post by shangamuzo on Sept 23, 2018 23:02:43 GMT
If you don't believe in Ever Closer Union towards a United States of Europe then you don't believe in the EU. Verhostadt is one of the main spokespersons for the Ezu and this mantra as you call it is the main objective of the EU. Verhostadt is in line with Merkel, Tuck, Selmayr, Juncker , Weber, Barnier etc etc . Your version of the EU project ( don't its a work in progress) doesn't actually exist. It would be much simpler and easier for your arguments if you stepped in line and said that a United States of Europe would be s good thing It’s never going to happen. Before the EU under Nazi germany we were close to a one nation europe. The EU has massively reduced the chances of there ever being a one nation europe. If the EU’s goal was command and conquer, why hasn’t it invited every nation on earth to join? That might be true militarily but economically, Germany controls the European Union. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 5:35:50 GMT
STEALTH
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 24, 2018 5:59:42 GMT
Question for you. Who is going to build the customs checkpoints that will make a hard border in NI? The British - no The Irish - unlikely Which leaves who? So you think the EU will allow potentially substandard (illegal) products to be sold there through N Ire when they don’t elsewhere? Or vice versa in the event our regulations are of higher quality? Customs checks don’t need a 50ft high perimeter fence. I’m not sure you’ve answered my question. Try again. Who will put in the hard border you talk about? |
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Post by raythesailor on Sept 24, 2018 6:10:44 GMT
The Irish situation is typical of this crazy situation. The EU wanting there cake and eat it.
If NI and the republic can have a open border why cant the rest of the UK?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 24, 2018 7:36:28 GMT
If you don't believe in Ever Closer Union towards a United States of Europe then you don't believe in the EU. Verhostadt is one of the main spokespersons for the Ezu and this mantra as you call it is the main objective of the EU. Verhostadt is in line with Merkel, Tuck, Selmayr, Juncker , Weber, Barnier etc etc . Your version of the EU project ( don't its a work in progress) doesn't actually exist. It would be much simpler and easier for your arguments if you stepped in line and said that a United States of Europe would be s good thing It’s never going to happen. Before the EU under Nazi germany we were close to a one nation europe. The EU has massively reduced the chances of there ever being a one nation europe. If the EU’s goal was command and conquer, why hasn’t it invited every nation on earth to join? I honestly don't think that you understand the EU Oggy |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 7:47:18 GMT
It’s never going to happen. Before the EU under Nazi germany we were close to a one nation europe. The EU has massively reduced the chances of there ever being a one nation europe. If the EU’s goal was command and conquer, why hasn’t it invited every nation on earth to join? I honestly don't think that you understand the EU Oggy It’s one of the most mental statements I’ve ever read and that’s saying something because I’ve ventured quite far down the rabbit hole at times. |
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Post by felonious on Sept 24, 2018 7:52:08 GMT
It’s never going to happen. Before the EU under Nazi germany we were close to a one nation europe. The EU has massively reduced the chances of there ever being a one nation europe. If the EU’s goal was command and conquer, why hasn’t it invited every nation on earth to join? I honestly don't think that you understand the EU Oggy Who was it on here that said he was Cornish first, then European?  |
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