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Post by 4372 on Sept 23, 2018 12:31:20 GMT
Is it possible that someone don't want a new Referendum because they have not got the courage of their convictions?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 12:44:50 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ?
It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum.
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Post by felonious on Sept 23, 2018 12:46:53 GMT
The working classes wanted Brexit. Your hero has abandoned them. He is totally without principle in the pursuit of power. He is a spineless turd. I loathe him and the current Labour party. Who is my hero? I have never voted labour and certainly will not be voting for them again at the next opportunity unless they change significantly. So who is my hero? To defend Corbyn’s view to do as he his instructed by the people who put him in his position is not to make him my hero or to say I am a fan or supporter of him. Do you vote in the UK elections or are they an irrelevance?  |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 23, 2018 12:49:48 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. Don't fucking bank on it, Deeside. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 12:54:49 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. Don't fucking bank on it, Deeside. I know Tricky, it's a bloody farce ! |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 12:55:26 GMT
Who is my hero? I have never voted labour and certainly will not be voting for them again at the next opportunity unless they change significantly. So who is my hero? To defend Corbyn’s view to do as he his instructed by the people who put him in his position is not to make him my hero or to say I am a fan or supporter of him. Do you vote in the UK elections or are they an irrelevance? I always vote. But usually my vote is an irrelevance because of our first past the post electoral system which means getting 25% of the vote can give you a big majority. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:02:55 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. So democracy means one vote that is binding forever? Does that what you mean by it being “democratic”. You have highlighted what i have said all along; referenda are idiotic and have no place in a democracy (unless you have them regularly, repeating the question asked each time). Our elected officials should do their job and not abdicate responsibility, particularly when most people have no clue about the EU (hence the misconceptions repeated on here and even by politicians on a daily basis). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 13:03:05 GMT
Don't fucking bank on it, Deeside. I know Tricky, it's a bloody farce ! If there were to be a second referendum I'd urge all voters to buycott the polling stations if not picketing them. I'd also urge nobody to campaign for vote leave and not to recognise the outcome of the vote. I've already cast my vote on it and the EU AND the elite will not force me to vote again as they have in the Netherlands and Ireland. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 23, 2018 13:07:42 GMT
Do you vote in the UK elections or are they an irrelevance? I always vote. But usually my vote is an irrelevance because of our first past the post electoral system which means getting 25% of the vote can give you a big majority. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:10:07 GMT
I always vote. But usually my vote is an irrelevance because of our first past the post electoral system which means getting 25% of the vote can give you a big majority. Aren’t they currently in power (and in opposition!?)?!? |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2018 13:18:40 GMT
Why is it cowardly to say I will do what the majority of my party’s members want? Also, leave voters, how do you propose leaving the EU with there being no hard border in Ireland? That’s not a loaded question. I’m genuinely interested because nobody has come up with any solutions yet (save for remaining in a customs union of course) which I think most Brexiteers oppose. Or are you saying a hard border will be an inevitable downside of leaving the EU (and the customs union) as will changing or binning the Good Friday Agreement as a result? Genuinely interested in leave voters’ views on this. Because corbyn has always been a fierce opponent of the EU , it now suits his political aspirations to change track . The Irish border question is just the EU commission weaponisation of this issue it now seems to be a pre condition of a deal without any real basis in fact . The EU have suggested the border issue could spark paramilitary conflict again . Nobody else has said this , certainly not any of the parties involved |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2018 13:21:12 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. It would have been a one off vote had we voted to remain , does anyone think another vote would have been clambered for had we voted remain |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 13:22:19 GMT
A third, fourth and fifth vote. One a week, it could be run like a reality TV/ game show. It isn't the working class asking for a second ( third) vote it's Remoaners What if remoaners outweight Brexiteers now? Or does the will of the people only apply when you agree? You are outlining the argument I have put forward time and time again about why referenda are totally undemocratic and a ridiculous why to govern. Oggy We have not even implemented the result of the last Referendum yet! Simply it's part of the concerted attempt to undermine the decision. " What ifs" are pretty pointless. You don't believe in Referenda unless they agree with you. Remember " they are not democratic". A bit hypocritical that! |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2018 13:24:04 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. So democracy means one vote that is binding forever? Does that what you mean by it being “democratic”. You have highlighted what i have said all along; referenda are idiotic and have no place in a democracy (unless you have them regularly, repeating the question asked each time). Our elected officials should do their job and not abdicate responsibility, particularly when most people have no clue about the EU (hence the misconceptions repeated on here and even by politicians on a daily basis). One vote and there was me thinking we also had a general election where the two parties backing brexit took what 80% of the vote and the Lib Dems... Best of 5 then  |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2018 13:28:38 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. It would have been a one off vote had we voted to remain , does anyone think another vote would have been clambered for had we voted remain Exactly the greatest vote winner for leave is dear old gina, the people voted she wanted parliament to approve, they approved it now she wants the people to have a vote again. The greatest mistake remain made was at least not pretending to accept the result, by continuing non stop they have never looked credible, no deal was ever going to be good enough for them. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:33:35 GMT
Why is it cowardly to say I will do what the majority of my party’s members want? Also, leave voters, how do you propose leaving the EU with there being no hard border in Ireland? That’s not a loaded question. I’m genuinely interested because nobody has come up with any solutions yet (save for remaining in a customs union of course) which I think most Brexiteers oppose. Or are you saying a hard border will be an inevitable downside of leaving the EU (and the customs union) as will changing or binning the Good Friday Agreement as a result? Genuinely interested in leave voters’ views on this. Because corbyn has always been a fierce opponent of the EU , it now suits his political aspirations to change track . The Irish border question is just the EU commission weaponisation of this issue it now seems to be a pre condition of a deal without any real basis in fact . The EU have suggested the border issue could spark paramilitary conflict again . Nobody else has said this , certainly not any of the parties involved I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 13:36:09 GMT
So what happens if Labour now get their way and there is a second referendum and Leave wins again - do Labour, plus all the Remoaners, Gina Bloody Miller et al keep banging on for yet another referendum, and another, and another etc until they get the result they wanted (and then the subject would be closed) ? It's pathetic. The referendum took place AS A ONE OFF VOTE, was decided, was democratic, and I just hope May has the balls to stand by her word that there will NOT be a second referendum. It would have been a one off vote had we voted to remain , does anyone think another vote would have been clambered for had we voted remain Exactly H, it's all the bloody Remoaners being unwilling to accept a totally DEMOCRATIC referendum and constantly bleating on about it being unfair and necessary to have another referendum, and another, and another, until they, Juncker and Co. get the decision they want, and then it's subject closed. So theoretically the Remoaners win the second one, the Leavers then badger, heckle, march, cry, and complain (just like the Remoaners have consistently done) for a further referendum - can we really see there being a third one ? Not a bloody chance ! Well f*ck 'em, I'm sick to death of listening to the sodding Remoaners, Oggy, and the rest constantly bleating on about another vote. We voted, Leave won, and May and Co. should have the determination and conviction to deliver. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:36:46 GMT
What if remoaners outweight Brexiteers now? Or does the will of the people only apply when you agree? You are outlining the argument I have put forward time and time again about why referenda are totally undemocratic and a ridiculous why to govern. Oggy We have not even implemented the result of the last Referendum yet! Simply it's part of the concerted attempt to undermine the decision. " What ifs" are pretty pointless. You don't believe in Referenda unless they agree with you. Remember " they are not democratic". A bit hypocritical that! I never thought having a referendum was sensible. It’s proven that way considering we are 2 and a bit years on and still don’t have a clue what our relationship with our closest neighbours and biggest trading partners will be. We don’t know what the alternative to remaining is yet. We haven’t implemented the first vote. Plenty of times one government starts something and another changes course of bins it before implementation. If something in a manifesto is not implemented does that mean there cann be no new election until tue government have implemented everything? What if there’s a U turn? And what’s your solution to the Irish issue? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:38:38 GMT
So democracy means one vote that is binding forever? Does that what you mean by it being “democratic”. You have highlighted what i have said all along; referenda are idiotic and have no place in a democracy (unless you have them regularly, repeating the question asked each time). Our elected officials should do their job and not abdicate responsibility, particularly when most people have no clue about the EU (hence the misconceptions repeated on here and even by politicians on a daily basis). One vote and there was me thinking we also had a general election where the two parties backing brexit took what 80% of the vote and the Lib Dems... Best of 5 then So you believe May must be PM until death as she won te last vote and we cannot vote again? What’s your solution to the Irish issue? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 13:40:49 GMT
It is understandable if people don't feel represented by the main political parties. The leader of the Conservative government elected on a ticket " Brexit means BREXIT" doesn't believe in it and doesn't intend to deliver it ( even though the previous leader made promises on behalf of the party/ government).
The leader of the opposition ,also elected on a Brexit ticket, does believe in Brexit but won't deliver it because his party is more interested in short term political ' gain'. ( I honestly think that it is the Labour party that is going to suffer most from this , particularly the Momentum branch, because it will ( medium term) lead to the break up of the party).
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:41:00 GMT
It would have been a one off vote had we voted to remain , does anyone think another vote would have been clambered for had we voted remain Exactly the greatest vote winner for leave is dear old gina, the people voted she wanted parliament to approve, they approved it now she wants the people to have a vote again. The greatest mistake remain made was at least not pretending to accept the result, by continuing non stop they have never looked credible, no deal was ever going to be good enough for them. Gina helped leave more than remain by making sure the result would be binding rather than just a glorified poll. You don’t understand what Gina did at all! |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2018 13:46:08 GMT
Because corbyn has always been a fierce opponent of the EU , it now suits his political aspirations to change track . The Irish border question is just the EU commission weaponisation of this issue it now seems to be a pre condition of a deal without any real basis in fact . The EU have suggested the border issue could spark paramilitary conflict again . Nobody else has said this , certainly not any of the parties involved I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? Leave on WTO rules and leave the EU to resolve the border issue , it then becomes their problem |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2018 13:46:46 GMT
One vote and there was me thinking we also had a general election where the two parties backing brexit took what 80% of the vote and the Lib Dems... Best of 5 then So you believe May must be PM until death as she won te last vote and we cannot vote again? What’s your solution to the Irish issue? Straw man, straw man, straw man. The solution to the irish issue is technology or the EU puts up a hard border entirely up to them. |
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Post by M on Sept 23, 2018 13:49:33 GMT
Don’t try and rewrite history. The working class was abandoned by Blair. The movement of many away from Labour happened long before Corbyn came to power. He’s also said he doesn’t want to go to the polls but if the democratic will of his party say otherwise (hundreds of motions with huge seats in direction have been logged by local parties nationwide) then he’d follow their will! So Corbyn can follow the 'democratic will' of his party to push for a second referendum at the same time as ignoring the democratic will of the whole country after the first referendum. Gotcha.  So if the will of his party (stories of 81% in favour) want the party to and the democratic right of parliament decide to give another referendum and the democratic right of voters then gives a different verdict to last time, yeah. Gotcha was it? |
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2018 13:50:01 GMT
Exactly the greatest vote winner for leave is dear old gina, the people voted she wanted parliament to approve, they approved it now she wants the people to have a vote again. The greatest mistake remain made was at least not pretending to accept the result, by continuing non stop they have never looked credible, no deal was ever going to be good enough for them. Gina helped leave more than remain by making sure the result would be binding rather than just a glorified poll. You don’t understand what Gina did at all! Gee thats why I said she was leaves best vote winner, it seems you and Gina dont understand what she did at all, she got parliament to activate a50 and approve it with a fixed leaving date, there is no option to revoke it or have another vote we are out of time, the last one took 6 months to decide the question. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 23, 2018 13:51:03 GMT
Oggy We have not even implemented the result of the last Referendum yet! Simply it's part of the concerted attempt to undermine the decision. " What ifs" are pretty pointless. You don't believe in Referenda unless they agree with you. Remember " they are not democratic". A bit hypocritical that! I never thought having a referendum was sensible. It’s proven that way considering we are 2 and a bit years on and still don’t have a clue what our relationship with our closest neighbours and biggest trading partners will be. We don’t know what the alternative to remaining is yet. We haven’t implemented the first vote. Plenty of times one government starts something and another changes course of bins it before implementation. If something in a manifesto is not implemented does that mean there cann be no new election until tue government have implemented everything? What if there’s a U turn? And what’s your solution to the Irish issue? The Irish issue is being used to try to ensure that the UK cannot leave. The Irish question does not and should not mean that the UK cannot be a sovereign independent country. Some things are not easy, but that does not mean that they should not be done. At worst in the short term it would be an insecure border..... possibly a bigger problem for the EU. Rees Mogg and Davies have out forward a workable solution. Do you now believe in ever closer union towards a United States of Europe? Do you still believe that EU regulations and directives are irrelevant. Do you oppose everything that Guy Verhostadt says? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:55:08 GMT
I don’t care for Corbyn. So what’s your solution to the Ireland issue then? Leave on WTO rules and leave the EU to resolve the border issue , it then becomes their problem So you want a hard border with Ireland and to rip up the GFA? Interesting. WTO will not be good for us at all. |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2018 13:57:51 GMT
I never thought having a referendum was sensible. It’s proven that way considering we are 2 and a bit years on and still don’t have a clue what our relationship with our closest neighbours and biggest trading partners will be. We don’t know what the alternative to remaining is yet. We haven’t implemented the first vote. Plenty of times one government starts something and another changes course of bins it before implementation. If something in a manifesto is not implemented does that mean there cann be no new election until tue government have implemented everything? What if there’s a U turn? And what’s your solution to the Irish issue? The Irish issue is being used to try to ensure that the UK cannot leave. The Irish question does not and should not mean that the UK cannot be a sovereign independent country. Some things are not easy, but that does not mean that they should not be done. At worst in the short term it would be an insecure border..... possibly a bigger problem for the EU. Rees Mogg and Davies have out forward a workable solution. Do you now believe in ever closer union towards a United States of Europe? Do you still believe that EU regulations and directives are irrelevant. Do you oppose everything that Guy Verhostadt says? The Swiss borders with the EU are open and use a lot of technology to monitor trade goods . It seems this system is workable and in use despite Barnier saying it's unworkable |
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 23, 2018 13:58:06 GMT
I never thought having a referendum was sensible. It’s proven that way considering we are 2 and a bit years on and still don’t have a clue what our relationship with our closest neighbours and biggest trading partners will be. We don’t know what the alternative to remaining is yet. We haven’t implemented the first vote. Plenty of times one government starts something and another changes course of bins it before implementation. If something in a manifesto is not implemented does that mean there cann be no new election until tue government have implemented everything? What if there’s a U turn? And what’s your solution to the Irish issue? The Irish issue is being used to try to ensure that the UK cannot leave. The Irish question does not and should not mean that the UK cannot be a sovereign independent country. Some things are not easy, but that does not mean that they should not be done. At worst in the short term it would be an insecure border..... possibly a bigger problem for the EU. Rees Mogg and Davies have out forward a workable solution. Do you now believe in ever closer union towards a United States of Europe? Do you still believe that EU regulations and directives are irrelevant. Do you oppose everything that Guy Verhostadt says? Rees-Mogg wants to follow EU rules to prevent a hard border. He wants to be a rule taker. Then if the EU changes their rules we have a hard border and no more GFA, unless we change our rules to match theirs. Davis’ Canada style agreement doesn’t alifn customs and so creates a hard border. |
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 23, 2018 13:58:53 GMT
Leave on WTO rules and leave the EU to resolve the border issue , it then becomes their problem So you want a hard border with Ireland and to rip up the GFA? Interesting. WTO will not be good for us at all. Frankly I don't care about the border it's a red herring |
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