|
Post by thehartshillbadger on May 22, 2023 18:29:32 GMT
It’s another pointless poll. Take no notice If only everyone had taken that attitude the day after the referendum Maybe so but that wasn’t a vote to 100 people like an edition of Family Fortunes
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 22, 2023 18:39:03 GMT
Yeah I noticed that too, odd but pretty inconsequential rather than 'shocking'. 😁 The point (which I assume you did realise) is that as each new poll comes out, there are more and more people who voted to leave, who believe that Brexit has failed. Obviously realised that. My point is that I don’t think people who know it’s a mess would therefore seek to reverse the decision. I would guess (and I could be wrong) you’re at least 2 GEs away from rejoin being on the table. Because the option of blaming the management of brexit will still be there for that long. Yeah that absolutely might be the case, I guess it depends on how much and how quickly things get even worse. I though (like you) would be surprised to see it happen before 2030.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on May 22, 2023 18:54:16 GMT
This latest poll will also be affected by Brexiteers realising that it's not illegal immigration that's the real problem. The latest figures for legal immigration are mind boggling and make illegals just a small part of the problem. On top of that the problems with with Brexit are starting to hit home to them, especially those travelling to the Continent when they get stuck getting out of the country. It's one of the biggest cock-ups in history is Brexit with Bojo's 'oven ready deal'.
OS.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on May 22, 2023 19:10:47 GMT
Would that be "the lot" who lived through Thatcher's Britain? Yeah, some of them. I'm not saying things were easier or harder btw, just that most people I know round my age and younger feel screwed over and notice a lot of things that seem targeted against us. There's a shitload of resentment so it's a hard sell for conservative policies since we've lived through them and not really felt like winning from them. Eh up Lad, you don't know how lucky you are ....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2023 20:02:59 GMT
Yeah, some of them. I'm not saying things were easier or harder btw, just that most people I know round my age and younger feel screwed over and notice a lot of things that seem targeted against us. There's a shitload of resentment so it's a hard sell for conservative policies since we've lived through them and not really felt like winning from them. Eh up Lad, you don't know how lucky you are .... Careful. You'll coax eebygum out of retirement.
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on May 23, 2023 5:42:38 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 23, 2023 16:52:03 GMT
Some news MrCoke won't bring you...!
DT: "UK companies invest 750m euros in Germany after Brexit.
British companies have poured more than 750m euros into Germany after setting up EU outposts in the wake of Brexit. British investors set up 170 projects in 2022, making them the third largest cohort of foreign investors, after the US and Switzerland. The UK recorded the largest year on year rise in projects of any of the top four countries investing in Germany in 2022, knocking China into fourth place. In total, the British invested at least 750m euros in 2022. The largest investment was from Mike Ashley's Frasers Group, which is building a central hub in Bitburg that will be its second largest location worldwide".
It goes on in similar vein.
What a shame all that investment now goes abroad instead of in this country.
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on May 24, 2023 20:10:47 GMT
Some news MrCoke won't bring you...! DT: "UK companies invest 750m euros in Germany after Brexit. British companies have poured more than 750m euros into Germany after setting up EU outposts in the wake of Brexit. British investors set up 170 projects in 2022, making them the third largest cohort of foreign investors, after the US and Switzerland. The UK recorded the largest year on year rise in projects of any of the top four countries investing in Germany in 2022, knocking China into fourth place. In total, the British invested at least 750m euros in 2022. The largest investment was from Mike Ashley's Frasers Group, which is building a central hub in Bitburg that will be its second largest location worldwide". It goes on in similar vein. What a shame all that investment now goes abroad instead of in this country. Yes. Apparently Dusseldorf is going to be the new European commercial powerhouse in the next decade. What a cluckin shambles.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 24, 2023 20:17:40 GMT
It really makes me mad.
No idea how people could have been so fucking stupid.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 24, 2023 20:30:54 GMT
As each new poll comes out, it seems that the direction of travel for public opinion is travelling in only one (and pretty rapid) direction ... There’s remain voters who think brexit has been more of a success?? That’s the most shocking part of that poll. Also I’m not sure a leave voter saying brexit is bad = someone who would therefore vote rejoin. It'll be an anomaly purely down to wagastokie being asked
|
|
|
Post by generationex on May 24, 2023 21:34:12 GMT
It really makes me mad. No idea how people could have been so fucking stupid. That makes me annoyed but what makes me mad is that their lack of judgment and gullibility impacts me and my family. If you’re daft enough to get conned into plastic windows by a snake-oil salesman that’s your lookout. But why does every house in the street have to have shite windows now too?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 24, 2023 21:47:37 GMT
It really makes me mad. No idea how people could have been so fucking stupid. That makes me annoyed but what makes me mad is that their lack of judgment and gullibility impacts me and my family. If you’re daft enough to get conned into plastic windows by a snake-oil salesman that’s your lookout. But why does every house in the street have to have shite windows now too? Yup same. Gullible idiots.
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on May 24, 2023 22:36:02 GMT
Farage says this isn't the Brexit he wanted.
It's the Tory's fault.
😆
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 0:12:37 GMT
That makes me annoyed but what makes me mad is that their lack of judgment and gullibility impacts me and my family. If you’re daft enough to get conned into plastic windows by a snake-oil salesman that’s your lookout. But why does every house in the street have to have shite windows now too? Yup same. Gullible idiots. So in a binary referendum, everyone who voted the opposing side to how you voted is a "gullible idiot"? Also, welcome to democracy generationex. That's actually a reasonable summary of how it can work yes.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 25, 2023 0:33:17 GMT
Farage says this isn't the Brexit he wanted. It's the Tory's fault. 😆 He's a piece of work isn't he? This is a man who was advocating a 'Norway type deal' (remaining in the SM and the CU) during the referendum campaign and yet, here he is, blaming that the Brexit we've got, hasn't been hard enough. All the problems we currently have, that he named on Peston tonight, are EXACTLY the problems that the remain campaign suggested we would end up with, if we went through with Brexit. He knows it too but also he knows there's enough people out there, who will continue to swallow his nonsense and keep his career going just that little bit longer.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 25, 2023 6:46:43 GMT
Yup same. Gullible idiots. So in a binary referendum, everyone who voted the opposing side to how you voted is a "gullible idiot"? Also, welcome to democracy generationex. That's actually a reasonable summary of how it can work yes. Yes, they’ve been conned.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 25, 2023 6:47:26 GMT
Farage says this isn't the Brexit he wanted. It's the Tory's fault. 😆 He's a piece of work isn't he? This is a man who was advocating a 'Norway type deal' (remaining in the SM and the CU) during the referendum campaign and yet, here he is, blaming that the Brexit we've got, hasn't been hard enough. All the problems we currently have, that he named on Peston tonight, are EXACTLY the problems that the remain campaign suggested we would end up with, if we went through with Brexit. He knows it too but also he knows there's enough people out there, who will continue to swallow his nonsense and keep his career going just that little bit longer. Some would call them gullible idiots….
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 18:30:23 GMT
So in a binary referendum, everyone who voted the opposing side to how you voted is a "gullible idiot"? Also, welcome to democracy generationex. That's actually a reasonable summary of how it can work yes. Yes, they’ve been conned. Come on dude. There are people far brighter and far more well informed than you/me/anyone else on this forum who voted leave/remain/couldn’t decide. You aren’t going to help your own political causes by labelling everyone who disagreed with you 7 years ago over such a complex decision as a “gullible idiot”.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 25, 2023 19:03:44 GMT
Yes, they’ve been conned. Come on dude. There are people far brighter and far more well informed than you/me/anyone else on this forum who voted leave/remain/couldn’t decide. You aren’t going to help your own political causes by labelling everyone who disagreed with you 7 years ago over such a complex decision as a “gullible idiot”. It’s the only Brexit benefit.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on May 25, 2023 19:10:17 GMT
Come on dude. There are people far brighter and far more well informed than you/me/anyone else on this forum who voted leave/remain/couldn’t decide. You aren’t going to help your own political causes by labelling everyone who disagreed with you 7 years ago over such a complex decision as a “gullible idiot”. It’s the only Brexit benefit. This made me chuckle 😂 I do agree with stokiepmre89 though too.
|
|
|
Post by smallthorner on May 25, 2023 19:24:22 GMT
Yes, they’ve been conned. Come on dude. There are people far brighter and far more well informed than you/me/anyone else on this forum who voted leave/remain/couldn’t decide. You aren’t going to help your own political causes by labelling everyone who disagreed with you 7 years ago over such a complex decision as a “gullible idiot”. Yes.. I prefer to call some of the people who voted leave "naive" or "misguided". Not in a derogatory term I have to say. As you alluded to earlier, a lot of very intelligent, informed folk voted out. A lot more informed than me ... But my decision (to remain) was based on more of a "gut" feeling and sense of unity rather than isolation. I wanted to embrace Europe not distance myself from it. I never "got" the sovereignty thing and never will. Nigel Farage should be arrested for crimes against the state. And I still maintain to this day that "the bus" influenced a large proportion of leave voters. Que sera sera.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2023 0:28:29 GMT
Yes, they’ve been conned. Come on dude. There are people far brighter and far more well informed than you/me/anyone else on this forum who voted leave/remain/couldn’t decide. You aren’t going to help your own political causes by labelling everyone who disagreed with you 7 years ago over such a complex decision as a “gullible idiot”. Yeah I must admit, I don't feel at all comfortable with all this finger pointing that seems to be happening at the moment. Yes I'm pissed off that me and my kids have lost our freedom of movement and of course I'm devastated that our country has become poorer but really, people's anger shouldn't be directed at those folks who voted for it (and they most certainly shouldn't be belittled) but rather, that anger should be directed at the fuckin charlatans who orchestrated it, for their own personal gains. We shouldn't be at each other's throats (no matter how people voted) we should be squarely at the throats of those people responsible for it happening in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 4:48:49 GMT
It’s the only Brexit benefit. This made me chuckle 😂 It was a perfect reply. Completely disarmed me.
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on May 26, 2023 8:45:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 26, 2023 10:13:01 GMT
This latest poll will also be affected by Brexiteers realising that it's not illegal immigration that's the real problem. The latest figures for legal immigration are mind boggling and make illegals just a small part of the problem. On top of that the problems with with Brexit are starting to hit home to them, especially those travelling to the Continent when they get stuck getting out of the country. It's one of the biggest cock-ups in history is Brexit with Bojo's 'oven ready deal'. OS. We agree on many things but I strongly disagree on immigration. Everyone of us is an immigrant or descended from an immigrant. People have been migrating to these shores for thousands of years. The Romans brought African and Asians to work on building cities and walls centuries before the Anglo Saxons and Danes and Normans arrived. Immigrants make a huge contribution to our economy . Where would our NHS and welfare services be without them? We need a buoyant economy to pay for public services. Indian businesses are now contributing massively to our economy. The idea that we are overcrowded is nonsense. Other countries like the Netherlands have far higher density of population. This article in the Guardian by Portes is worth a read: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/23/panic-immigration-brexit-wages-uk-economyPortes has been an arch anti Brexiteer but his forecasts have been repeatedly proven wrong over the economy, and he now appears to be softening his attitude to Brexit. Maybe he is beginning to realising that there is a great big world economy out there that the EU only represents a small (15%) closed corner of. The only part of the EU that is growing significantly is eastern Europe, so the idea that workers were still going to keep coming from there to do jobs in the UK is a false premise. As is the idea that western EU countries would continue to buy increasing amounts of goods and services from the UK when they can get them cheaper from Eastern Europe.
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on May 26, 2023 10:52:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on May 26, 2023 11:49:41 GMT
Some news MrCoke won't bring you...! DT: "UK companies invest 750m euros in Germany after Brexit. British companies have poured more than 750m euros into Germany after setting up EU outposts in the wake of Brexit. British investors set up 170 projects in 2022, making them the third largest cohort of foreign investors, after the US and Switzerland. The UK recorded the largest year on year rise in projects of any of the top four countries investing in Germany in 2022, knocking China into fourth place. In total, the British invested at least 750m euros in 2022. The largest investment was from Mike Ashley's Frasers Group, which is building a central hub in Bitburg that will be its second largest location worldwide". It goes on in similar vein. What a shame all that investment now goes abroad instead of in this country. I don't share your concern that the UK is a considerable investor in Germany; third largest after the US and Switzerland. 2022 was also a record year for UK investment in France. uk.ambafrance.org/2022-a-record-year-for-British-investment-in-FranceIn 2021 the US was the largest foreign investor in Germany, accounting for 16.9% of FDI projects, followed by Switzerland with 10.3% and the UK third with 8.1%. This seems to upset those opposed to Brexit but it is no surprise and is to be expected. The UK is a major world economy and as such attracts worldwide investment and makes investments worldwide. Having left the customs union of the EU it is only natural that UK businesses will seek to establish a “foothold” in the single market to ameliorate the red tape burden of the EU customs barrier. There are countless (hundreds of) examples of UK businesses expanding their worldwide operations, such as Osbit, the offshore wind technology company has recently established, and is now operating, a Netherlands business entity and office in Rotterdam in order to further grow its local offering and capabilities for its Dutch customer base. There is of course huge investment in the opposite direction, particularly in financial services. We should not expect there to be many steel works, cement works, power stations, refineries, etc. to be built in the UK should we? Can you imagine the public outrage if one was even suggested? news.cityoflondon.gov.uk/the-uk-bounces-back-from-pandemic-with-record-amount-of-foreign-investment-in-financial-services/#:~:text=Between%202018%20and%202022%2C%20the,followed%20by%20Switzerland%20and%20Germany. Between 2018 and 2022, well after the decision to leave the EU, the UK attracted investment from 65 countries over the world; the highest among all financial centres. Deutsche Bank employs more than 7,000 employees in the UK from a diverse range of backgrounds. It is one of the largest employers in the City of London. The US was the largest investor into the UK financial services followed by Switzerland and Germany. In 2022 investment from Europe increased by 54% from the previous year. As well as financial services there have been huge recent investments by Bosch and Lidl from Germany. Scotland is home to 160 French-owned business corporations, with French investment in Scotland being second only to US. In terms of foreign direct investment into Europe as a whole, naturally the war in Ukraine has had an adverse impact In 2022, France remained the highest in terms of the number of projects for the fourth year running with 1,259 projects, a 3% increase. This is followed by the UK with 929 projects, down 6% on the previous year, and Germany fairly steady at 832 projects, a 1% drop. In terms of employment though, the UK FDIs created 46,779 jobs compared with France’s 38,102. www.ey.com/en_gl/attractiveness/ey-europe-attractiveness-surveyI think you can rest easy about investment in post Brexit UK.
|
|
|
Post by tuum on May 26, 2023 12:58:06 GMT
I read somewhere that the economic success of the ROI is built on foundations of sand. Their GDP is up at the top but 50% of it is US Tech Giants establishing their European offices there. Shell companies similar to Luxembourg. Employing 10 people whilst 1000's are employed in their London office. Profits/Income declared in ROI and then moved offshore. The average Irish worker is suffering just like the Brits (perhaps a little less so). I will see if I can dig out the article. I think it was a YouTube economic analysis by some bloke who seemed to know what he was talking about. He was explaining how the Irish had benefitted from Brexit but noting that it was not the success story that it would appear to be on paper.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on May 26, 2023 13:20:14 GMT
I read somewhere that the economic success of the ROI is built on foundations of sand. Their GDP is up at the top but 50% of it is US Tech Giants establishing their European offices there. Shell companies similar to Luxembourg. Employing 10 people whilst 1000's are employed in their London office. Profits/Income declared in ROI and then moved offshore. The average Irish worker is suffering just like the Brits (perhaps a little less so). I will see if I can dig out the article. I think it was a YouTube economic analysis by some bloke who seemed to know what he was talking about. He was explaining how the Irish had benefitted from Brexit but noting that it was not the success story that it would appear to be on paper. When is it ever a success story for the average person?
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on May 26, 2023 14:20:40 GMT
I read somewhere that the economic success of the ROI is built on foundations of sand. Their GDP is up at the top but 50% of it is US Tech Giants establishing their European offices there. Shell companies similar to Luxembourg. Employing 10 people whilst 1000's are employed in their London office. Profits/Income declared in ROI and then moved offshore. The average Irish worker is suffering just like the Brits (perhaps a little less so). I will see if I can dig out the article. I think it was a YouTube economic analysis by some bloke who seemed to know what he was talking about. He was explaining how the Irish had benefitted from Brexit but noting that it was not the success story that it would appear to be on paper. Not so, this is a list of Top 1000 Companies located in Ireland (Foreign and Domestic) with the numbers employed in Ireland www.top1000.ie/companiesThis is a blurb on the type of Industries www.educationinireland.com/en/why-study-in-ireland-/ireland-s-strengths/leading-global-companies-in-ireland.html#:~:text=Ireland%20is%20the%20European%20hub%20to%20over%201%2C000%20leading%20multinational%20companies! There are more than 300,000 employed by Multinational Companies about 12% of total employed There is no doubt there is a dual Economy heavily dependent on FDI but I doubt the average tax payer is concerned as long as they are contributing Corporation Tax as well as Employment
|
|