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Post by mrcoke on May 26, 2023 14:48:40 GMT
I read somewhere that the economic success of the ROI is built on foundations of sand. Their GDP is up at the top but 50% of it is US Tech Giants establishing their European offices there. Shell companies similar to Luxembourg. Employing 10 people whilst 1000's are employed in their London office. Profits/Income declared in ROI and then moved offshore. The average Irish worker is suffering just like the Brits (perhaps a little less so). I will see if I can dig out the article. I think it was a YouTube economic analysis by some bloke who seemed to know what he was talking about. He was explaining how the Irish had benefitted from Brexit but noting that it was not the success story that it would appear to be on paper. Ireland's economy is doing very well. The upturn started a long time ago (c.20 years) well before Brexit happened. Ireland became a tax haven and has done very well and so far resisted the EU's attempts to reign them in. Obviously there are many individuals who have benefitted hugely, just as in London's financial services, but how much better the average Irish citizen is is marginal, but no doubt wealth will trickle down to the rest of society. Where Ireland has struck lucky is Brexit. The country has benefitted hugely being English speaking and in the EU. There is less of a barrier to trade with the UK so exports to the UK have boomed. How long will it last is anyone's guess. I think Ireland is safe from the EU Commission as long as Biden's around. The bigger issue is the Irish people's views going forward. Ireland is going to be making an ever increasing contribution to the EU budget, which could be eye watering in the future if Turkey, Ukraine, et al join the EU. How long will EU membership be popular if the vast bulk of trade is with the UK and North America earning huge revenue only to hand over large sums to the other EU countries? Time will tell, meanwhile Ireland is doing OK. It should be remembered how Brexit happened and how the vote went. Those areas that benefitted from EU membership most, London, Scotland, and NI, voted remain, while the rest of England and Wales voted leave. Within the regions, the split was between rich areas and poorer areas, with the wealthy areas voting remain. In my own north east, only Harrogate voted remain. www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/distorted-irish-economy-means-high-payments-to-the-eu/ |
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Post by tuum on May 26, 2023 14:56:55 GMT
Happy to be corrected. It was a while back so my memory was sketchy.
This is the YouTube video I was referring to.
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Post by wannabee on May 26, 2023 18:09:08 GMT
I read somewhere that the economic success of the ROI is built on foundations of sand. Their GDP is up at the top but 50% of it is US Tech Giants establishing their European offices there. Shell companies similar to Luxembourg. Employing 10 people whilst 1000's are employed in their London office. Profits/Income declared in ROI and then moved offshore. The average Irish worker is suffering just like the Brits (perhaps a little less so). I will see if I can dig out the article. I think it was a YouTube economic analysis by some bloke who seemed to know what he was talking about. He was explaining how the Irish had benefitted from Brexit but noting that it was not the success story that it would appear to be on paper. Ireland's economy is doing very well. The upturn started a long time ago (c.20 years) well before Brexit happened. Ireland became a tax haven and has done very well and so far resisted the EU's attempts to reign them in. Obviously there are many individuals who have benefitted hugely, just as in London's financial services, but how much better the average Irish citizen is is marginal, but no doubt wealth will trickle down to the rest of society. Where Ireland has struck lucky is Brexit. The country has benefitted hugely being English speaking and in the EU. There is less of a barrier to trade with the UK so exports to the UK have boomed. How long will it last is anyone's guess. I think Ireland is safe from the EU Commission as long as Biden's around. The bigger issue is the Irish people's views going forward. Ireland is going to be making an ever increasing contribution to the EU budget, which could be eye watering in the future if Turkey, Ukraine, et al join the EU. How long will EU membership be popular if the vast bulk of trade is with the UK and North America earning huge revenue only to hand over large sums to the other EU countries? Time will tell, meanwhile Ireland is doing OK. It should be remembered how Brexit happened and how the vote went. Those areas that benefitted from EU membership most, London, Scotland, and NI, voted remain, while the rest of England and Wales voted leave. Within the regions, the split was between rich areas and poorer areas, with the wealthy areas voting remain. In my own north east, only Harrogate voted remain. www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/distorted-irish-economy-means-high-payments-to-the-eu/Very amusing Mr Coke a 3 year old nonsensical article written by Graham Gudgin Economist at Brexit Central  he tops it off by quoting Ray Bassett who gets wheeled out as an anti EU Commentator In the Financial Year 2021/22 UK collected <£63Bn in Corporation Tax. In 2022 ROI collected €25Bn in Corporation Tax with a Population 13 times less. 57% of that Corporation Tax was paid by 10 Multinationals, what's not to like. ROI is one of the most enthusiastic supporters of EU the most recent poll I could find Mayy 2022 shows 88% support BBC/ITV is practically Free to Air in ROI enough to convince anyone that watches what a debacle its been for UK including NI www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/public-support-for-irish-membership-of-eu-remains-high-poll-finds-1.4873236"There is less of a barrier to trade with the UK so exports to the UK have boomed."
This is a very strange comment ROIs Terms of Trade with UK is no different to any EU Country ROIs biggest export markets are to US by far followed by Germany then Belgium and UK about equal then Netherlands Even if you don't reply to the above could you explain why ROI should fear EU Commission but are OK because they have Biden's protection. I can see no basis for this comment? |
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Post by toppercorner on May 27, 2023 16:59:42 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 27, 2023 19:02:12 GMT
It's not remarkable at all, it was bloody inevitable! And as accurate as his predictions were, the one bit he got wrong, was that the likes of Farage and Johnson were now terrified of what was going to happen. They absolutely aren't and weren't terrified, they never ever gave a shit about what would happen. |
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Post by wannabee on May 27, 2023 22:36:39 GMT
Happy to be corrected. It was a while back so my memory was sketchy. This is the YouTube video I was referring to. I think that's a fairly accurate if a little out of date. As I said and the YouTube said ROI is a dual Economy so it can be difficult sometimes to compare like for like ROI Gross National Product (GNP) which stripes out Multinationals is $76K per Capita www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/gnp-gross-national-productUK GNP per Capita I.e. comparing like for like is $44.5K www.macrotrends.net/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/gnp-gross-national-productOn top of that the Top 10 Multinationals contribute 57% of Corporation Tax of €25Bn UK collects £63Bn of just less than 3 times more but has a population 13 times more One of the threats to Ireland Economy from Brexit was previously 2/3 of Exports to EU went via UK Land Bridge now its barely 20% with UK ports suffering loss of Trade Like all all Countries UK, ROI, EU Brexit has forced a rethink on logistics o overtime it will become more stark. Trade between ROI and UK in numerical terms has remained largely the same because UK has yet to impose Custom checks on Imports from EU. If and when it does we may see changes. Ireland is UKs 4th biggest Trading Partner behind US, Netherlands and Germany but ahead of e.g. China and France and considerably more than the 12 combined Countries of CPTPP Trade Deal recently concluded www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/ |
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 30, 2023 19:49:41 GMT
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Post by tuum on May 30, 2023 22:30:55 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 30, 2023 22:47:37 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. I don't think it's about being smug but more of a direct attack on the reputation of Farage. At the end of the day, he promised his followers that he would leave the country if Brexit failed and yet he's still here. |
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Post by lordb on May 31, 2023 7:30:05 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. [/quote ] Think you are confusing smug with anger Simply putting a line under it, 'never mind', isn't an acceptable option Farage is still a public campaigner, he's proven to be a dangerously liar, he has to be called out. I think a campaign to rejoin the EU isn't immediately on the cards but it will be something that grows as such actions like this will form part of that |
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Post by tuum on May 31, 2023 15:21:00 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. [/quote ] Think you are confusing smug with anger Simply putting a line under it, 'never mind', isn't an acceptable option Farage is still a public campaigner, he's proven to be a dangerously liar, he has to be called out. I think a campaign to rejoin the EU isn't immediately on the cards but it will be something that grows as such actions like this will form part of that Not sure why you are so upset/angry with Farage for lying. He is a politician that is what they do. Everyone apparently knew Brexit was a shitshow in 2019. Great opportunity for the Labour party to stand with the Greens and Lib Dems on a manifesto to take us back into the EU. They chose not to and returned the Tories with a massive majority because the Tories said they would get Brexit done. I am angry with Labour for being evasive on this subject when it mattered. Why not be angry with Labour for making a complete pig's ear of the 2019 GE. Or maybe we should be angry with the 18-25 year olds who couldn't be arsed to vote in the referendum. If they had turned out in numbers then perhaps the ref result would have been different. We should be angry with the 48% of the population who were too thick to see through the Brexiteers arguments or maybe that was due to a lack of education.. so let's blame the Tories for that as well. I am not advocating putting a line under it but to be angry with Farage for Brexit because he may/may not have lied about certain things is a simplification of all the issues that have got us to where we are today.... and I didn't even mention, austerity, covid, Tory sleaze or the war in Ukraine. If we don't get back in the EU in the next 5-10yrs or so then I don't think we ever will. In 2030 people will be wandering what all the fuss was about. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on May 31, 2023 16:20:54 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. The first step on a long, long road towards getting public opinion to the point that re-joining the EU would be acceptable? |
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Post by smallthorner on May 31, 2023 19:13:31 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. I don't think it's about being smug but more of a direct attack on the reputation of Farage. At the end of the day, he promised his followers that he would leave the country if Brexit failed and yet he's still here. Absolutely. Don't know about people being "smug".. They are lucky there aren't riots. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2023 8:39:37 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Jun 2, 2023 10:16:03 GMT
Doesn't it make you proud of the UK unelected Trade Negotiators (Lord Frost) professionalism in concluding favourable Trade Deals rather than those incompetent unelected EU Bureaucrats An arrogant bunch of clowns 🤡 |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2023 10:26:42 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 2, 2023 10:27:29 GMT
The question I have is, what would the re-entry deal look like? I doubt that it would include some of the special exemptions that the UK once enjoyed, for example. What would happen to any deals that we have signed that don’t work for the EU?
It wouldn’t shock me if voter turnout on any referendum was lower than previous, as people seem to be tired of talking about it. Possibly tired enough to not care that their lives are affected by it. A sort of bury my head in the sand while my ass burns in the sun kind of moment.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 12:00:23 GMT
The question I have is, what would the re-entry deal look like? I doubt that it would include some of the special exemptions that the UK once enjoyed, for example. What would happen to any deals that we have signed that don’t work for the EU? It wouldn’t shock me if voter turnout on any referendum was lower than previous, as people seem to be tired of talking about it. Possibly tired enough to not care that their lives are affected by it. A sort of bury my head in the sand while my ass burns in the sun kind of moment. We wouldn't get anything like as good a deal as the one we had and I'd assume we'd probably have to adopt the Euro too. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 12:03:05 GMT
The question I have is, what would the re-entry deal look like? I doubt that it would include some of the special exemptions that the UK once enjoyed, for example. What would happen to any deals that we have signed that don’t work for the EU? It wouldn’t shock me if voter turnout on any referendum was lower than previous, as people seem to be tired of talking about it. Possibly tired enough to not care that their lives are affected by it. A sort of bury my head in the sand while my ass burns in the sun kind of moment. I think you're right. Although, the general apathy thing might be assuaged through the passage of time. Eventually, (10-15 years maybe?) once most of the Brexiteers have died off, everyone who is left is going to be well aware what a fuck up leaving was and, hopefully, prepared to put things right, so we might have moved beyond that stage of reluctance to engage. The re-entry deal is a very good point. We have effectively done ourselves a double whammy of damage by leaving. While Brexiteers were routinely encouraged by the Tory press to piss their pants about how unfairly treated we were by the EU, the reality was that the opposite was true. We had levels of subsidiarity that simply didn't apply to many other countries. Will we be offered such favourable terms this time around? Unlikely, at first glance, although if the EU was smart, that would go a long way to encouraging Brits to get over any resistance they might have. On the plus side, and I use the word plus in its loosest possible connotation, by the time re-joining is a possibility our economy is likely to have shrunk to a point where the size of our contributions is likely to be less of an issue! |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 12:06:23 GMT
Meanwhile, in loony Tory press land...  2017  2023  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2023 12:16:51 GMT
Not like me to quote a former Tory party chairman but every single word he says here, is bang on the money ...
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Post by wannabee on Jun 2, 2023 13:29:14 GMT
The question I have is, what would the re-entry deal look like? I doubt that it would include some of the special exemptions that the UK once enjoyed, for example. What would happen to any deals that we have signed that don’t work for the EU? It wouldn’t shock me if voter turnout on any referendum was lower than previous, as people seem to be tired of talking about it. Possibly tired enough to not care that their lives are affected by it. A sort of bury my head in the sand while my ass burns in the sun kind of moment. Personally I can't see that happening anytime soon Your question presupposes that if a Referendum were in favour re-entry would follow, I'm not convinced. On the one hand the optouts UK enjoyed as Members would unlikely to be still available except perhaps Sterling remaining. Also regulation of the City of London is/will diverge fundamentally from EU regulation making it incompatible. Finally recent events in Ukraine has focused EU minds for more integrated design making not less and a large dissenter would be unwelcome. An intermediary step would be to become a member of EFTA like Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein which then leads to membership of EEA with the 27 EU Members. I also feel this is highly unlikely as it means accepting the 4 freedoms, persons, goods, services and capital. Joining EFTA would also restrict UK concluding Trade Deals on its own behalf. Why EFTA works for example for Norway is that quite frankly they have competent Government. At the same time as Thatcher was flogging off UK Oil and Gas as well as Privatising Public Utilities, Norway retained ownership of its natural resources for the benefit of its people to build up a Sovereign Wealth Fund with the excess profits. It currently stands at $1.4 Trillion earning $86 Billion in Q1 2023 I think the most likely outcome in the Medium Term 5/15 years are a la carte changes to the basic TCA to make Trading between UK and EU easier where it is mutually beneficial similar to the Winsor Framework e.g. a potential SPS Agreement and potentiality mutual recognition of Standards in Manufacturing Historians will reflect that since the early 1970s when literally the lights went out and UK entered EEC as the "sick man of Europe " instead of embracing EU differing Governments resisted further integration ironically not too dissimilar to Denmark and to a lesser extent Ireland who joined the EEC at the same time primarily to protect its exports to UK. Over time both these Countries have become enthusiastic members and prospered from it embracing further integration brought to a head by Ukraine War. Conversely UK has been in Perennial decline not as a result of decisions taken at EU level but bizarre idealogical decisions taken by UK Governments from Thatchers selling of the Family Silver followed by a period of "Things can only get better " and to be fair they did for a while before a Global Financial Crash made worse by poorly regulated Banks and followed by 13 years of Austerity when investment was called for during a period of historically low Interest Rates. I think most people in UK would settle for a happiness index where Public Services are adequate and a Meritocracy enabled the advancement of individuals through equal opportunity rather than from privilege Instead we have had the trickle down philosophy which did benefit some in home ownership but didn't replace the stock followed by the hoard and retain philosophy of the present administration |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 14:02:18 GMT
Doesn't it make you proud of the UK unelected Trade Negotiators (Lord Frost) professionalism in concluding favourable Trade Deals rather than those incompetent unelected EU Bureaucrats An arrogant bunch of clowns 🤡 Bizarrely, the Telegraph still seems to hold Lord Frost as some form of exalted EU legend, despite being principle negotiator for the deal which is now considered unworkable! That said, they also give regular column inches to Nick Timothy who was the "brains" behind Theresa May's 2017 election campaign which resulted in a resounding -5 majority |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 2, 2023 14:03:25 GMT
The question I have is, what would the re-entry deal look like? I doubt that it would include some of the special exemptions that the UK once enjoyed, for example. What would happen to any deals that we have signed that don’t work for the EU? It wouldn’t shock me if voter turnout on any referendum was lower than previous, as people seem to be tired of talking about it. Possibly tired enough to not care that their lives are affected by it. A sort of bury my head in the sand while my ass burns in the sun kind of moment. Personally I can't see that happening anytime soon Your question presupposes that if a Referendum were in favour re-entry would follow, I'm not convinced. On the one hand the optouts UK enjoyed as Members would unlikely to be still available except perhaps Sterling remaining. Also regulation of the City of London is/will diverge fundamentally from EU regulation making it incompatible. Finally recent events in Ukraine has focused EU minds for more integrated design making not less and a large dissenter would be unwelcome. An intermediary step would be to become a member of EFTA like Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein which then leads to membership of EEA with the 27 EU Members. I also feel this is highly unlikely as it means accepting the 4 freedoms, persons, goods, services and capital. Joining EFTA would also restrict UK concluding Trade Deals on its own behalf. Why EFTA works for example for Norway is that quite frankly they have competent Government. At the same time as Thatcher was flogging off UK Oil and Gas as well as Privatising Public Utilities, Norway retained ownership of its natural resources for the benefit of its people to build up a Sovereign Wealth Fund with the excess profits. It currently stands at $1.4 Trillion earning $86 Billion in Q1 2023 I think the most likely outcome in the Medium Term 5/15 years are a la carte changes to the basic TCA to make Trading between UK and EU easier where it is mutually beneficial similar to the Winsor Framework e.g. a potential SPS Agreement and potentiality mutual recognition of Standards in Manufacturing Historians will reflect that since the early 1970s when literally the lights went out and UK entered EEC as the "sick man of Europe " instead of embracing EU differing Governments resisted further integration ironically not too dissimilar to Denmark and to a lesser extent Ireland who joined the EEC at the same time primarily to protect its exports to UK. Over time both these Countries have become enthusiastic members and prospered from it embracing further integration brought to a head by Ukraine War. Conversely UK has been in Perennial decline not as a result of decisions taken at EU level but bizarre idealogical decisions taken by UK Governments from Thatchers selling of the Family Silver followed by a period of "Things can only get better " and to be fair they did for a while before a Global Financial Crash made worse by poorly regulated Banks and followed by 13 years of Austerity when investment was called for during a period of historically low Interest Rates. I think most people in UK would settle for a happiness index where Public Services are adequate and a Meritocracy enabled the advancement of individuals through equal opportunity rather than from privilege Instead we have had the trickle down philosophy which did benefit some in home ownership but didn't replace the stock followed by the hoard and retain philosophy of the present administration Good summary. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 3, 2023 13:24:16 GMT
How sad ...
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Post by wannabee on Jun 3, 2023 16:47:10 GMT
Another half a Billion Taxpayer subsidy or offski What does 100+ years of Expertise and Tradition matter when you can flog some Software to Vietnam instead |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 3, 2023 17:31:28 GMT
Another half a Billion Taxpayer subsidy or offski What does 100+ years of Expertise and Tradition matter when you can flog some Software to Vietnam instead Always going to happen, wasn't it. I'm sure the Board at Vauxhall sat up and took note as soon as it was revealed that Sunak would be bunging £500mill of taxpayers' money to JLR to get them to build their battery plant here rather than Spain. |
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Post by smallthorner on Jun 3, 2023 18:53:30 GMT
Yeah...but...to be fair, this isn't the Brexit they voted for is it? 🤣 |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 3, 2023 19:29:22 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. I think it is helpful. It shows how the brexiteers lied to win the referendum vote, and it has been a failure. It should mean fewer people vote for the brexiteer party (Tory). |
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Post by smallthorner on Jun 3, 2023 20:02:12 GMT
Is there some meaningful point to these posters or are they just an excuse for a section of the population to feel smug? I could understand if they were put up a month before a GE and one of the parties was campaigning on a commitment to rejoin the EU. Not sure this kind of thing is helpful. I think it is helpful. It shows how the brexiteers lied to win the referendum vote, and it has been a failure. It should mean fewer people vote for the brexiteer party (Tory). Reckon Dishy Rishi will gradually dissociate himself from Brexit over the next 18 months up to the GE. He will then blame Farage and Johnson. Platforming a new Britain to think about joining in a watered down membership or a Norway type. Wankers. |
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he tops it off by quoting Ray Bassett who gets wheeled out as an anti EU Commentator
