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Post by skemstokie on Mar 28, 2023 21:00:30 GMT
Countryfile this week covered the plight of Lea Valley salad growers. Basically they are saying tgat unless things change,the UK probably has 5 years left in the industry. The high energy prices and 6 month temporary worker contracts since Brexit were cited as major factors,along with UK pricing policies . What was interesting was the Government rep who basically said that it's not natural growing salad in the Uk in winter, so it looks like just another sector they are not bothered about keeping. Is there anything the Tories do actually want to keep in the UK? Turnip growers if Coffey has her way.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Mar 28, 2023 21:46:50 GMT
Yesterday, I visited Stoke town centre briefly. Its my place of birth, but I can't look it in the face since Brexit. However, I did see that the town centre has not improved one little bit since 2016, and despite what Brexshiteers promised. What a surprise. What's even sadder is that probably about 70% of the population of Stoke on Trent voted for Brexit. That bus has a lot to answer for. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone voted for Brexit. I know reasonably intelligent people who thought it was a great idea for the UK to be independent. Not that it makes one iota of difference but I'm pleased to say that I shouted from the rooftops that it was a fucking dreadful idea. We now all know what it means for us and the consequences that we are now facing. In my view, anyone who still considers it to be beneficial,is a stupid fucking halfwit.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 28, 2023 22:01:42 GMT
What's even sadder is that probably about 70% of the population of Stoke on Trent voted for Brexit. That bus has a lot to answer for. I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone voted for Brexit. I know reasonably intelligent people who thought it was a great idea for the UK to be independent. Not that it makes one iota of difference but I'm pleased to say that I shouted from the rooftops that it was a fucking dreadful idea. We now all know what it means for us and the consequences that we are now facing. In my view, anyone who still considers it to be beneficial,is a stupid fucking halfwit. I wouldn't call MrCoke a stupid fucking halfwit. I think he's a bit like Jeremy Clarkson: doesn't really believe half the stuff he says but he's so stuck now he has to keep churning it out! At least Clarkson gets paid for his nonsense I suppose.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Mar 28, 2023 22:27:35 GMT
I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone voted for Brexit. I know reasonably intelligent people who thought it was a great idea for the UK to be independent. Not that it makes one iota of difference but I'm pleased to say that I shouted from the rooftops that it was a fucking dreadful idea. We now all know what it means for us and the consequences that we are now facing. In my view, anyone who still considers it to be beneficial,is a stupid fucking halfwit. I wouldn't call MrCoke a stupid fucking halfwit. I think he's a bit like Jeremy Clarkson: doesn't really believe half the stuff he says but he's so stuck now he has to keep churning it out! At least Clarkson gets paid for his nonsense I suppose. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Just people who still think it's a good idea. Does fucking stubborn, idiotic clowns sound any better? Surely nobody has an argument for supporting Brexit.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 29, 2023 6:23:39 GMT
I wouldn't call MrCoke a stupid fucking halfwit. I think he's a bit like Jeremy Clarkson: doesn't really believe half the stuff he says but he's so stuck now he has to keep churning it out! At least Clarkson gets paid for his nonsense I suppose. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Just people who still think it's a good idea. Does fucking stubborn, idiotic clowns sound any better? Surely nobody has an argument for supporting Brexit. I know you weren't referring to anyone specifically, but MrCoke popped into my head as being just about the only one on here who fitted the bill for stubbornly persisting with this nonsense. Like I said, he's not stupid and I doubt whether even he really believes half of the stuff he says!
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 29, 2023 13:28:00 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2023 13:41:08 GMT
On the post Brexit journey to where?
We've relinquished our role as one of the major players in the biggest trading block in the world, so we can play a peripheral role in a significantly smaller one.
"Its impact is likely to be somewhere between zero and inconsequential for most of us. The FT’s trade correspondent likens it in decibel terms to “a cat sneezing three rooms away” – and that may well be an exaggeration.
The UK already has trade agreements with nine CPTPP members: Australia, Canada, Chile, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam. The only new ones are Brunei and Malaysia.
Britain’s GDP would see an increase of £1.8bn over the same period. These are all at 2019 values when UK GDP was £2,238bn. In other words, in a decade and a half’s time we are likely to see an increase in our wealth of 0.08%. This is not even a rounding error in the national accounts. To return to the decibel analogy, it is more like listening for a small woodland animal breaking wind at the side of a busy motorway.
On the other side of the balance sheet, the loss of GDP due to exiting the EU single market is put conservatively by the independent Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) at 4% of GDP by 2030, at least 50 times greater.
The FT points to credible evidence that the actual Brexit-related hit to GDP is likely to be much higher and has already reached 5.5%. It is the equivalent of being mugged of £700 and then offered a tenner as consolation by the mugger – better than nothing but not much."
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 29, 2023 19:38:51 GMT
Another compromise on the latest step of the UK's post-Brexit journey: "UK trade deal in Asia-Pacific to see palm oil import tariffs slashed" carbon-pulse.com/195748/
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 29, 2023 20:14:57 GMT
But if leaving the EU hasn’t made trade with the EU worse in any way (and certainty not increased prices for consumers), why on earth are we entering into a trading agreement with anyone else? They don’t boost supply according to some brexiteers. They don’t reduce prices either. They don’t encourage good relations with the other nations. They just reduce sovereignty (apparently). What’s the point when they are so bad? I thought we voted to be free of all international interference? Why should we have to comply with this trading blocs standards? Why should we listen to the decisions of foreign judges sitting in the Investor-state dispute settlement tribunal to resolve disputes in the trading bloc? Or, is the reality that trade deals are actually a good thing? No matter how many of these minor ones we sign, none will replicate the benefits of the single market.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 29, 2023 20:47:02 GMT
But if leaving the EU hasn’t made trade with the EU worse in any way (and certainty not increased prices for consumers), why on earth are we entering into a trading agreement with anyone else? They don’t boost supply according to some brexiteers. They don’t reduce prices either. They don’t encourage good relations with the other nations. They just reduce sovereignty (apparently). What’s the point when they are so bad? I thought we voted to be free of all international interference? Why should we have to comply with this trading blocs standards? Why should we listen to the decisions of foreign judges sitting in the Investor-state dispute settlement tribunal to resolve disputes in the trading bloc? Or, is the reality that trade deals are actually a good thing? No matter how many of these minor ones we sign, none will replicate the benefits of the single market. Why stop at trade we belong to numerous multinational colaborative organisations. Surely we should have left them too. I mean we're Great Britain we should just do whatever we like whenever we want to and neither cede nor compromise with anyone. Take our ball home if we can't get our own way. I know lets be the DUP.
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 29, 2023 21:09:18 GMT
On the post Brexit journey to where?
We've relinquished our role as one of the major players in the biggest trading block in the world, so we can play a peripheral role in a significantly smaller one.
"Its impact is likely to be somewhere between zero and inconsequential for most of us. The FT’s trade correspondent likens it in decibel terms to “a cat sneezing three rooms away” – and that may well be an exaggeration.
The UK already has trade agreements with nine CPTPP members: Australia, Canada, Chile, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam. The only new ones are Brunei and Malaysia.
Britain’s GDP would see an increase of £1.8bn over the same period. These are all at 2019 values when UK GDP was £2,238bn. In other words, in a decade and a half’s time we are likely to see an increase in our wealth of 0.08%. This is not even a rounding error in the national accounts. To return to the decibel analogy, it is more like listening for a small woodland animal breaking wind at the side of a busy motorway.
On the other side of the balance sheet, the loss of GDP due to exiting the EU single market is put conservatively by the independent Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) at 4% of GDP by 2030, at least 50 times greater.
The FT points to credible evidence that the actual Brexit-related hit to GDP is likely to be much higher and has already reached 5.5%. It is the equivalent of being mugged of £700 and then offered a tenner as consolation by the mugger – better than nothing but not much."
Great Post.👍
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Post by wannabee on Mar 29, 2023 21:29:02 GMT
As this journey seems to be a downward spiral of UK Economy which this new agreement does nothing to address What is your view on Sovereignty erosion as highlighted in Article Paul linked? So now UK will be constrained by commitments under TCA with EU but also new constraints and commitments to CPTPP Members A rather strange journey don't you think? One signatory is New Zealand, but not everyone there is behind it. Opponents of the CPTPP claim NZ is now “ruled by a TPP Federal Government” and say the treaty is “binding” on member nations, “overriding the domestic laws and constitutions of the individual countries”.What Sir Bill Cash and his band of sovereignty-worshippers will make of it is not known. Will the UK’s sovereignty be eroded? In the trade and cooperation agreement (TCA) with the EU, the UK has already agreed to level playing field and non-regression measures limiting its ability to dramatically change employment protection and environmental laws. The CPTPP agreement does the same. The 30 chapters in total cover government procurement, regulatory coherence, sanitary and phytosanitary measures, employment and environmental issues, financial services, competition policy, intellectual property, dispute settlement and so on. The chapter on labour laws for example, “prohibits TPP parties from weakening the protections afforded to workers under their labour laws, or from failing to enforce them”. And on environmental matters, a party to the CPTPP “shall not waive or otherwise derogate from, or offer to waive or otherwise derogate from, its environmental laws in a manner that weakens or reduces the protection afforded in those laws in order to encourage trade or investment between the Parties”. This will have important implications for the retained EU law bill currently going through parliament; not only will the 27 members of the EU take a dim view of any watering down of our current regulations, the 11 CPTPP members will be equally peeved.
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 29, 2023 22:05:02 GMT
As this journey seems to be a downward spiral of UK Economy which this new agreement does nothing to address What is your view on Sovereignty erosion as highlighted in Article Paul linked? So now UK will be constrained by commitments under TCA with EU but also new constraints and commitments to CPTPP Members A rather strange journey don't you think? One signatory is New Zealand, but not everyone there is behind it. Opponents of the CPTPP claim NZ is now “ruled by a TPP Federal Government” and say the treaty is “binding” on member nations, “overriding the domestic laws and constitutions of the individual countries”.What Sir Bill Cash and his band of sovereignty-worshippers will make of it is not known. Will the UK’s sovereignty be eroded? In the trade and cooperation agreement (TCA) with the EU, the UK has already agreed to level playing field and non-regression measures limiting its ability to dramatically change employment protection and environmental laws. The CPTPP agreement does the same. The 30 chapters in total cover government procurement, regulatory coherence, sanitary and phytosanitary measures, employment and environmental issues, financial services, competition policy, intellectual property, dispute settlement and so on. The chapter on labour laws for example, “prohibits TPP parties from weakening the protections afforded to workers under their labour laws, or from failing to enforce them”. And on environmental matters, a party to the CPTPP “shall not waive or otherwise derogate from, or offer to waive or otherwise derogate from, its environmental laws in a manner that weakens or reduces the protection afforded in those laws in order to encourage trade or investment between the Parties”. This will have important implications for the retained EU law bill currently going through parliament; not only will the 27 members of the EU take a dim view of any watering down of our current regulations, the 11 CPTPP members will be equally peeved. Don’t forget the foreign judges sitting in the Investor-state dispute settlement tribunal to resolve disputes in the trading bloc. How does that sit with the brexiteer red lines re the ECJ?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 31, 2023 8:01:04 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 31, 2023 8:55:41 GMT
So what was seen as the second biggest trade prize possible post brexit (after a US deal) has been achieved. And the government said the deal, which will cut tariffs on exports of food, drink and cars, would generate £1.8bn of extra income once it had been up and running for 10 years, which is about 0.08% of the UK’s annual gross national product (GDP).
So to compensate for the 4% drop in GDP caused by Brexit (according to the Office of Budget Responsibility), we have signed the second biggest possible deal out there, and in 10 years time, that will boost GDP by 0.08%.
What an absolute joke. Brexit continues to be a disaster.
And still no brexiteer wants to mention the double standards of being fine with foreign judges determining disputes under this trade deal, something that was a red line with the EU negotiations (that we caved on) and something that was a leading reason for brexit! Strange double standards.
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Post by phileetin on Mar 31, 2023 9:02:19 GMT
moan moan moan
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2023 9:50:33 GMT
You do realise that you're actually moaning about other people, erm ... moaning? Having said that, I'd suggest that they're simply making observations and it's not their fault, that those observations are (inevitably) negative. Don't blame you at all for not taking the opportunity to make some positive ones.
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Post by gawa on Mar 31, 2023 10:02:28 GMT
Lol. "those corrupt unelected EU officials".
Enter the UK Conservative government. 😂
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Post by phileetin on Mar 31, 2023 10:11:54 GMT
a trade deal has been agreed , a positive affect on the gdp , why moan about it ?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 31, 2023 10:26:12 GMT
a trade deal has been agreed , a positive affect on the gdp , why moan about it ? It is -3.92% of GDP compared with being in the single market though. And it is the second biggest possible trade deal available after a US deal. And it means cheaper palm oil….great. If you like this deal, you must be chomping at the bit for single market and customs union access. And as a brexiteer, why is ok for foreign judges to deal with disputes in this trade deal but not in a trade deal with the EU? Please explain this contradiction.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 31, 2023 10:30:25 GMT
a trade deal has been agreed , a positive affect on the gdp , why moan about it ? It beggars belief that you can't see why.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Mar 31, 2023 10:53:41 GMT
a trade deal has been agreed , a positive affect on the gdp , why moan about it ? It beggars belief that you can't see why. Moan, moan, moan - and more wokie moan. I mean the benefits are endless. For example, no more straight bananas. Our own smart dark blue passports - enables us to travel much more freely than the useless burgundy ones. No more EU star flag on registration plates. Nowhere in the economy (eg hospitality) needing to hire people to plug gaps.
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Post by phileetin on Mar 31, 2023 11:06:46 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 31, 2023 11:16:12 GMT
So what was seen as the second biggest trade prize possible post brexit (after a US deal) has been achieved. And the government said the deal, which will cut tariffs on exports of food, drink and cars, would generate £1.8bn of extra income once it had been up and running for 10 years, which is about 0.08% of the UK’s annual gross national product (GDP). So to compensate for the 4% drop in GDP caused by Brexit (according to the Office of Budget Responsibility), we have signed the second biggest possible deal out there, and in 10 years time, that will boost GDP by 0.08%. What an absolute joke. Brexit continues to be a disaster. And still no brexiteer wants to mention the double standards of being fine with foreign judges determining disputes under this trade deal, something that was a red line with the EU negotiations (that we caved on) and something that was a leading reason for brexit! Strange double standards. Just when you thought it couldn't get even worse ...
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 31, 2023 11:16:52 GMT
Yes, that’s how politics works. A decision once made can never be spoken about or critiqued or undone again. That’s what democracy is about! You still haven’t addressed the foreign judge contradiction.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Mar 31, 2023 11:17:02 GMT
That's true. Wokie Remoaners should keep their traps shut. Just like the ERG and their predecessors and cheerleaders did, from the moment the ink dried on the Accession Treaty in 1972. ( Keir).
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 31, 2023 11:20:25 GMT
I don't recall any of you leavers suggesting we leave the CU and SM. We have and to be frank, that's where the damage has been done mostly.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 31, 2023 11:25:57 GMT
Brexit is making most people poorer. It has priven a relentless stream of compromise and failures. That is recognised even by the fuckwits in government who supported it , with the exception of a few ultra Tory fuckwits and a few self-serving Tories doing very nicely out of it. Rejoining the EU is unlikely in my lifetime, but the challenge now is to try and limit the damage Brexit has caused. Glad I got that off my chest, I feel much better for a good moan. And if enough moan then it can if course bring about change- Brexit was itself brought about by people who just moaned and moaned and moaned about the EU, when of course most of the problems lay closer to home.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 31, 2023 11:30:13 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 31, 2023 11:56:01 GMT
Brexit is making most people poorer. It has priven a relentless stream of compromise and failures. That is recognised even by the fuckwits in government who supported it , with the exception of a few ultra Tory fuckwits and a few self-serving Tories doing very nicely out of it. Rejoining the EU is unlikely in my lifetime, but the challenge now is to try and limit the damage Brexit has caused. Glad I got that off my chest, I feel much better for a good moan. And if enough moan then it can if course bring about change- Brexit was itself brought about by people who just moaned and moaned and moaned about the EU, when of course most of the problems lay closer to home. Labour will slowly realign with the EU, claim they aren't and most people will turn a blind eye because either they knew we shouldn't have left in the first place or they now know full well we shouldn't have done it and are happy to see the problem just go away. The Tories will do the same - the ERG/Truss wing of the party will get purged and Boris will get written out of history once his lying about lying about lying is exposed in Parliament. Once my generation of nostalgic clueless old farts have died off we'll just quietly rejoin. Because in terms of practical economics it's the sane thing to do. Brexit is the political equivalent of waking up and finding a traffic cone at the end of your bed...seemed like a great idea at the time but in the cold light of day....The standard response is roll over, close your eyes and hope it's gone when you're ready to take another look but you will get some claiming it's a great feature that helps bring the room together - like the Dude's rug in The Big Lewbowski.
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