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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 26, 2023 12:57:30 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 26, 2023 13:42:58 GMT
An interesting take on how Brexit is going from the US.
The stats on the massive rise in legal immigration from Africa since Brexit, to replace the missing Europeans, will alarm some people, I'm sure.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Mar 27, 2023 8:25:51 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on Mar 27, 2023 9:09:08 GMT
what we all knew anyway
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Post by stokiepmre89 (Tom) on Mar 27, 2023 9:13:41 GMT
An interesting take on how Brexit is going from the US. The stats on the massive rise in legal immigration from Africa since Brexit, to replace the missing Europeans, will alarm some people, I'm sure. But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. |
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Post by lordb on Mar 27, 2023 9:18:57 GMT
An interesting take on how Brexit is going from the US. The stats on the massive rise in legal immigration from Africa since Brexit, to replace the missing Europeans, will alarm some people, I'm sure. But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. 'a small insignificant minority' come on, you can't believe that surely? millions voted for Brexit because they believed that immigration would be more controlled after Brexit we can argue how many millions, and we will never really know, but it was a key factor in Leave winning |
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 27, 2023 11:05:09 GMT
But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. 'a small insignificant minority' come on, you can't believe that surely? millions voted for Brexit because they believed that immigration would be more controlled after Brexit we can argue how many millions, and we will never really know, but it was a key factor in Leave winning You are correct. Some may have believed Brexit was about stopping immigration but it was always really about controlling immigration. Under the Maasricht Treaty EU citizenship took priority over national citizenship and it gave the rights of freedom of movement, settlement, and employment to all EU citizens anywhere in the EU. Naturally many moved to the UK with our open attitude having accepted immigration from all parts of the world, notably the Commonwealth for decades, our education system, our NHS, welfare etc. Leaving the EU has restored control. 100,000s of immigrants are still coming but now it is controlled to those joining relatives, study/education, and taking jobs where there is a shortage of numbers to fill those jobs such as the NHS. Consequently we now have the lowest unemployment since before the UK joined the EEC in the 70s. Naturally it takes time to adjust and now we are granting temporary work visas for low paid jobs such as agriculture where there are not enough UK citizens wanting the work. The longer term benefit will be that UK employers will be forced to improve productivity by automation etc. This is an area the UK has been very poor at because it has been easier for employers to take on cheap foreign labour than to automate. This year under the Agriculture Act which is phasing out the EU CAP by 2028, farmers can apply for financial assistance to automate to reduce the need for foreign temporary labour. I think it will take longer than 2028, it took New Zealand over a decade to turn round its agriculture to get rid of subsidies. Now like Australia they have a highly efficient modern agriculture industry. The UK can do the same. |
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Post by stokiepmre89 (Tom) on Mar 27, 2023 11:05:48 GMT
But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. 'a small insignificant minority' come on, you can't believe that surely? millions voted for Brexit because they believed that immigration would be more controlled after Brexit we can argue how many millions, and we will never really know, but it was a key factor in Leave winning I didn't say that. I theorised that CNN might be operating under the assumption that brexit was a far-right nationalist movement; and therefore using increased immigration from other parts of the world (and they specifically singled out some countries in Africa) as some sort of stick to beat the brexiteers with. And if that theory of their view and understanding of their point is correct (it might not be) then it's a mischaracterisation of the vast majority of people who voted for brexit as far-right nationalists. I'm not saying immigration control wasn't a major factor for many people voting brexit. But better control of immigration policies (without getting into whether that's been achieved or not which is obvious) is not a political desire exclusive to far-right nationalists. |
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Post by foster on Mar 27, 2023 11:38:50 GMT
An interesting take on how Brexit is going from the US. The stats on the massive rise in legal immigration from Africa since Brexit, to replace the missing Europeans, will alarm some people, I'm sure. But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. Personally, I'm for the British culture and way of life being preserved and respected. I see this as more likely to happen with people coming from 'the West', than say Africa, Asia, etc, where cultures differ greatly. You could also assume that immigrants from Western countries are more likely to decide to return to their home nations later in life, whereas immigrants from poorer nations may be more likely to try to get their entire families into the UK. This has nothing to do with colour by the way. Of course refugees and those in need should be allowed to come to the UK to better their lives, that goes without saying. But a broader assessment of immigration and the 'potential' impact that it may have on the existing British population and way of life should be made. Note that I'm also a Remainer (or Remoaner). |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 27, 2023 12:45:02 GMT
An interesting take on how Brexit is going from the US. The stats on the massive rise in legal immigration from Africa since Brexit, to replace the missing Europeans, will alarm some people, I'm sure. But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. I think (with respect) you've completely missed their point. It's got nothing to do with race (unless you want it to be) it's the fact that immigration hasn't fallen since Brexit, indeed it's increased. To suggest that's what an insignificant minority voted for, is a little disingenuous imho. EDIT: I replied to your post before realising that other posters had already made a similar point to you and I've now seen your reply to lordb that you were only 'theorizing' anyway. |
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 27, 2023 12:49:53 GMT
But that CNN piece says that many of the immigrants arriving are largely skilled; filling shortfall positions. I don’t see how that is specifically being used as a criticism? Is it that because many of those new immigrants aren’t white, is that the stick CNN are using to beat the brexiteers with? No doubt that will infuriate a small number of people who voted brexit but it really will be a small insignificant minority. Even farage went on about not discriminating against the rest of the world with pre-brexit immigration policies. I’m not saying the immigration system doesn’t still have issues but, of all the thought provoking points in that piece, I don’t think the immigration part was relevant unless from the false narrative angle that brexit was some sort of far right uprising. Personally, I'm for the British culture and way of life being preserved and respected. I see this as more likely to happen with people coming from 'the West', than say Africa, Asia, etc, where cultures differ greatly. You could also assume that immigrants from Western countries are more likely to decide to return to their home nations later in life, whereas immigrants from poorer nations may be more likely to try to get their entire families into the UK. This has nothing to do with colour by the way. Of course refugees and those in need should be allowed to come to the UK to better their lives, that goes without saying. But a broader assessment of immigration and the 'potential' impact that it may have on the existing British population and way of life should be made. Note that I'm also a Remainer (or Remoaner). There were a lot of sweeping statements in your post, were they just your assumptions or do you have facts to support your views? Why is it OK for Brits to go to all parts of the world but not OK for all parts of the world to come to the UK? I feel closer to Australia and New Zealand where my wife and I both have relatives than Europe. I'm sure those with relatives in Europe feel the same, if you follow my meaning. I have worked for French, Dutch, and Indian bosses and found Indians the best to work for. The Dutch were great as well. I found the French very "mixed" - some were good and others obnoxious. I always loved my trips to the US and Canada - great people. My church and prayer group have lots of Africans and Asians and are all lovely people. The world and our country are in constant flux. The Romans brought Africans and Asians to Britain long before any Anglo Saxons arrived. When I was brought up in 'Castle in the 50s it was rare to see a non-white face, but when I lived in Brum in the 60s during my university days, I studied with Indians and lived in a road where we were the only white people. That was 55 years ago! I think its getting time to redefine "Remainer". I want to remain outside the EU government area.  |
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Post by foster on Mar 27, 2023 14:14:01 GMT
Personally, I'm for the British culture and way of life being preserved and respected. I see this as more likely to happen with people coming from 'the West', than say Africa, Asia, etc, where cultures differ greatly. You could also assume that immigrants from Western countries are more likely to decide to return to their home nations later in life, whereas immigrants from poorer nations may be more likely to try to get their entire families into the UK. This has nothing to do with colour by the way. Of course refugees and those in need should be allowed to come to the UK to better their lives, that goes without saying. But a broader assessment of immigration and the 'potential' impact that it may have on the existing British population and way of life should be made. Note that I'm also a Remainer (or Remoaner). There were a lot of sweeping statements in your post, were they just your assumptions or do you have facts to support your views? Why is it OK for Brits to go to all parts of the world but not OK for all parts of the world to come to the UK? I feel closer to Australia and New Zealand where my wife and I both have relatives than Europe. I'm sure those with relatives in Europe feel the same, if you follow my meaning. I have worked for French, Dutch, and Indian bosses and found Indians the best to work for. The Dutch were great as well. I found the French very "mixed" - some were good and others obnoxious. I always loved my trips to the US and Canada - great people. My church and prayer group have lots of Africans and Asians and are all lovely people. The world and our country are in constant flux. The Romans brought Africans and Asians to Britain long before any Anglo Saxons arrived. When I was brought up in 'Castle in the 50s it was rare to see a non-white face, but when I lived in Brum in the 60s during my university days, I studied with Indians and lived in a road where we were the only white people. That was 55 years ago! I think its getting time to redefine "Remainer". I want to remain outside the EU government area. As I said, if people respect the UK and it's traditions/culture then no problem for me. As I respect how things work in Belgium and do not criticise the country like many other non-Belgians here do. My sentiments regarding respecting your home nation apply to everywhere, not only the UK. My main point being that people from the West (includes Australia and New Zealand by the way) would have less of a culture shock and find it easier to integrate in the UK. I didn't set a limit on the EU only. I don't see that as a sweeping statement either, I see it as logical and common sense. Obviously though it won't apply to everyone, and I don't think I implied that it did. As for mixed heritage, I'm from mixed parentage and both of my parents are too. By blood I'm only 1/4 English (or less if I go back to my great grandparents, one of whom was Italian and 2 others from eastern Europe. Here, I work almost exclusively with non-UK nationals from more than 30 countries just in my brussels office (including, but limited to France, Holland and India). I also have plenty of other 'life' experience to draw upon that I won't bore you of the details with. |
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 27, 2023 16:07:35 GMT
There were a lot of sweeping statements in your post, were they just your assumptions or do you have facts to support your views? Why is it OK for Brits to go to all parts of the world but not OK for all parts of the world to come to the UK? I feel closer to Australia and New Zealand where my wife and I both have relatives than Europe. I'm sure those with relatives in Europe feel the same, if you follow my meaning. I have worked for French, Dutch, and Indian bosses and found Indians the best to work for. The Dutch were great as well. I found the French very "mixed" - some were good and others obnoxious. I always loved my trips to the US and Canada - great people. My church and prayer group have lots of Africans and Asians and are all lovely people. The world and our country are in constant flux. The Romans brought Africans and Asians to Britain long before any Anglo Saxons arrived. When I was brought up in 'Castle in the 50s it was rare to see a non-white face, but when I lived in Brum in the 60s during my university days, I studied with Indians and lived in a road where we were the only white people. That was 55 years ago! I think its getting time to redefine "Remainer". I want to remain outside the EU government area. As I said, if people respect the UK and it's traditions/culture then no problem for me. As I respect how things work in Belgium and do not criticise the country like many other non-Belgians here do. My sentiments regarding respecting your home nation apply to everywhere, not only the UK. My main point being that people from the West (includes Australia and New Zealand by the way) would have less of a culture shock and find it easier to integrate in the UK. I didn't set a limit on the EU only. I don't see that as a sweeping statement either, I see it as logical and common sense. Obviously though it won't apply to everyone, and I don't think I implied that it did. As for mixed heritage, I'm from mixed parentage and both of my parents are too. By blood I'm only 1/4 English (or less if I go back to my great grandparents, one of whom was Italian and 2 others from eastern Europe. Here, I work almost exclusively with non-UK nationals from more than 30 countries just in my brussels office (including, but limited to France, Holland and India). I also have plenty of other 'life' experience to draw upon that I won't bore you of the details with. I like your reply and my comments were really focused on your statement of retaining British culture. The point I was trying to make maybe clumsily was British culture is in constant change. Thatcher said she did not think there would ever be a female PM in her lifetime, then became the first. Since then we have had two more female PMs so the male dominated culture of the the pre 60s has long gone. I laugh at videos of Churchill speeches when there isn't a women in sight! We now have a Hindu PM and today the SNP have a Muslim leader, the world is changing rapidly and all nations/peoples are welcome to the UK in my book to continue the enrichment and development of our British culture. But before I/we get smug UK society is still dominated by "Oxbridge types" who went to public schools and corporate interests, just as, I'm sure you're aware corporate interests dominate the EU Commission as evidenced by them caving in to the German car industry interests. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 27, 2023 21:53:55 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 27, 2023 22:05:49 GMT
Is anyone daft enough to still think it’s a good thing?
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Post by wannabee on Mar 27, 2023 22:32:06 GMT
Paul it's quite tragic that UK has taken itself out of Investment Opportunities as a result of Brexit. Industry doesn't do uncertainty nor does it do Investment while uncertainty exists The Express in particular have been running a Mr Coke false type of disinformation campaign since 2019 when Tesla first made its decision. I won't bother linking its available on Google if anyone is interested Astra Zeneca was cited by Bozo as the biggest Brexit success for rolling out the first Covid Vaccine have recently decided to build new £500M facility in Dublin rather than UK as a result of Brexit In the short/medium term the debate may continue because the long lasting effects of reduced Investment since 2016 takes some time to manifest, but in further years Brexit will become a University Textbook Study of why a Country voluntarily decided to commit an act of Economic Self-harming |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 28, 2023 6:55:29 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 28, 2023 11:26:27 GMT
Countryfile this week covered the plight of Lea Valley salad growers. Basically they are saying tgat unless things change,the UK probably has 5 years left in the industry.
The high energy prices and 6 month temporary worker contracts since Brexit were cited as major factors,along with UK pricing policies
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What was interesting was the Government rep who basically said that it's not natural growing salad in the Uk in winter, so it looks like just another sector they are not bothered about keeping.
Is there anything the Tories do actually want to keep in the UK?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 28, 2023 16:52:27 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 28, 2023 17:18:28 GMT
Countryfile this week covered the plight of Lea Valley salad growers. Basically they are saying tgat unless things change,the UK probably has 5 years left in the industry. The high energy prices and 6 month temporary worker contracts since Brexit were cited as major factors,along with UK pricing policies . What was interesting was the Government rep who basically said that it's not natural growing salad in the Uk in winter, so it looks like just another sector they are not bothered about keeping. Is there anything the Tories do actually want to keep in the UK? Poverty, lower life expectancy, higher retirement age and a weights and measures system that makes no sense whatsoever? |
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Post by 4372 on Mar 28, 2023 17:57:00 GMT
Yesterday, I visited Stoke town centre briefly. Its my place of birth, but I can't look it in the face since Brexit. However, I did see that the town centre has not improved one little bit since 2016, and despite what Brexshiteers promised. What a surprise.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 28, 2023 18:45:01 GMT
Much as I'd like to blame Brexit for everything, in Northern Ireland nothing is ever what it seems. The only Party in NI that campaigned for Brexit DUP are the only (major) Party to object to Protocol/Windsor Framework and refuse to take up seats in Parliament a requirement to form a Power Sharing Executive in NI under Belfast/Good Friday Agreement The new Windsor Framework gives DUP a ladder to climb down which it's leader Jeffrey Donaldson will probably take but two things stand in the way. A more fundamentalist branch of DUP represented by Ian Paisley, Sammy Wilson etc are opposed as it would install Sinn Fein's Michelle O'Neil as First Minister as the biggest Party in NI Secondly local Elections take place in May and DUP fear if they enter Government now they may lose seats to an even more extreme Unionist Party TUV No doubt MI5 have good reason to raise threat level especially after shooting of Police Inspector Caldwell by allegedly "New IRA" Caldwell is seen as a fearsome investigator of not only Terrorists but Criminal Gangs Even supposedly terrorist organisations become clouded as they are essentially Criminal Gangs masquerading as Terrorists. There is strong evidence that the shooting of Inspector Caldwell may have been carried out by "New IRA" but in a joint enterprise with Unionist Terrorist Organisations UDA/UVF |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 28, 2023 19:46:04 GMT
Yesterday, I visited Stoke town centre briefly. Its my place of birth, but I can't look it in the face since Brexit. However, I did see that the town centre has not improved one little bit since 2016, and despite what Brexshiteers promised. What a surprise. What's even sadder is that probably about 70% of the population of Stoke on Trent voted for Brexit. That bus has a lot to answer for. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 28, 2023 19:56:39 GMT
Much as I'd like to blame Brexit for everything, in Northern Ireland nothing is ever what it seems. The only Party in NI that campaigned for Brexit DUP are the only (major) Party to object to Protocol/Windsor Framework and refuse to take up seats in Parliament a requirement to form a Power Sharing Executive in NI under Belfast/Good Friday Agreement The new Windsor Framework gives DUP a ladder to climb down which it's leader Jeffrey Donaldson will probably take but two things stand in the way. A more fundamentalist branch of DUP represented by Ian Paisley, Sammy Wilson etc are opposed as it would install Sinn Fein's Michelle O'Neil as First Minister as the biggest Party in NI Secondly local Elections take place in May and DUP fear if they enter Government now they may lose seats to an even more extreme Unionist Party TUV No doubt MI5 have good reason to raise threat level especially after shooting of Police Inspector Caldwell by allegedly "New IRA" Caldwell is seen as a fearsome investigator of not only Terrorists but Criminal Gangs Even supposedly terrorist organisations become clouded as they are essentially Criminal Gangs masquerading as Terrorists. There is strong evidence that the shooting of Inspector Caldwell may have been carried out by "New IRA" but in a joint enterprise with Unionist Terrorist Organisations UDA/UVF Things in N Ire would be so much better had brexit not happened. There would be a government for a start. Tensions would be far lower. Threat levels less likely to be raised. Brexit is very much undermining years of extremely hard fought peace. But that was supposed to just be project fear… |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 28, 2023 20:13:36 GMT
Yesterday, I visited Stoke town centre briefly. Its my place of birth, but I can't look it in the face since Brexit. However, I did see that the town centre has not improved one little bit since 2016, and despite what Brexshiteers promised. What a surprise. What's even sadder is that probably about 70% of the population of Stoke on Trent voted for Brexit. That bus has a lot to answer for. Oh ah one look at that bus turned Stoke into Brexit zombies🙄 It’s a quite disparaging remark about your fellow citizens you make there tbh |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 28, 2023 20:20:00 GMT
What's even sadder is that probably about 70% of the population of Stoke on Trent voted for Brexit. That bus has a lot to answer for. Oh ah one look at that bus turned Stoke into Brexit zombies🙄 It’s a quite disparaging remark about your fellow citizens you make there tbh Not really. The bus made a statement. In my immediate circle of let's say twelve people, ten voted out. Six of those told me they were influenced by that statement on the bus. I'm not being disrespectful or holier than thou... just stating facts. Two of my children voted out. My boss voted out. I tried to tell them of course it would be a disaster but I was politely informed I was in the minority and somewhat of a wishy washy liberal. Que sera sera. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 28, 2023 20:22:02 GMT
Oh ah one look at that bus turned Stoke into Brexit zombies🙄 It’s a quite disparaging remark about your fellow citizens you make there tbh Not really. The bus made a statement. In my immediate circle of let's say twelve people, ten voted out. Six of those told me they were influenced by that statement on the bus. I'm not being disrespectful or holier than thou... just stating facts. Two of my children voted out. My boss voted out. I tried to tell them of course it would be a disaster but I was politely informed I was in the minority and somewhat of a wishy washy liberal. Que sera sera. Fair enough mate if that’s your experience but I don’t know anyone who was persuaded by a message on a bus. Everyone had made their mind up before the campaigning even began. |
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Post by smallthorner on Mar 28, 2023 20:32:59 GMT
Not really. The bus made a statement. In my immediate circle of let's say twelve people, ten voted out. Six of those told me they were influenced by that statement on the bus. I'm not being disrespectful or holier than thou... just stating facts. Two of my children voted out. My boss voted out. I tried to tell them of course it would be a disaster but I was politely informed I was in the minority and somewhat of a wishy washy liberal. Que sera sera. Fair enough mate if that’s your experience but I don’t know anyone who was persuaded by a message on a bus. Everyone had made their mind up before the campaigning even began. Yes of course. But I said "influenced" Personally I was quite surprised how many people I knew and worked with had such strong views. Perhaps my own naivety... They all blamed EU for immigration, cost of living, labour rates, NHS malfunction, local council ineptitude... Anyway.. don't want to get into a debate about it on specifics. I'm not that clever, but my gut feeling in 2016 was "stick with what we know" and I sincerely hope and pray that I'm wrong. Cheers. |
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Post by lordb on Mar 28, 2023 20:45:34 GMT
Not really. The bus made a statement. In my immediate circle of let's say twelve people, ten voted out. Six of those told me they were influenced by that statement on the bus. I'm not being disrespectful or holier than thou... just stating facts. Two of my children voted out. My boss voted out. I tried to tell them of course it would be a disaster but I was politely informed I was in the minority and somewhat of a wishy washy liberal. Que sera sera. Fair enough mate if that’s your experience but I don’t know anyone who was persuaded by a message on a bus. Everyone had made their mind up before the campaigning even began. I know of people who specifically voted leave because they believed that the NHS would get the extra £350m a week |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 28, 2023 20:50:25 GMT
Fair enough mate if that’s your experience but I don’t know anyone who was persuaded by a message on a bus. Everyone had made their mind up before the campaigning even began. I know of people who specifically voted leave because they believed that the NHS would get the extra £350m a week Sounds like you have some gullible friends. It’ll come as no surprise to anyone I voted leave but I’d made my mind up before the campaigning. In hindsight I’m happy to admit I may possibly have been wrong but I’m happy to wait longer for things to settle down. It couldn’t really have happened at a worse time in terms of world events so with that in mind I’m giving it longer than I normally would. |
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