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Post by wannabee on Oct 18, 2022 16:44:19 GMT
I agree with all the above but would still like a EU passport with ALL its benefits. Unlike Uber Hypocrites Nigel Lawson and Stanley Johnson who became French Citizens Not sure if Nige got his German Passport which he applied for the day after Referendum I was able to obtain mine via Historic Family connections đ¤Ť
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 18, 2022 16:46:40 GMT
This statement was attributed to Mark Carney in the FT a few days ago. I would be grateful if you could supply any supporting information/facts. I canât access the FT article so cannot say where the figures are from. But I doubt that both the FT and Marina Hyde (winner for the last three years of comment journalist of the year at the British Journalism Awards) would lie or not check their sources.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 18, 2022 16:51:15 GMT
This statement was attributed to Mark Carney in the FT a few days ago. I would be grateful if you could supply any supporting information/facts. I canât access the FT article so cannot say where the figures are from. But I doubt that both the FT and Marina Hyde (winner for the last three years of comment journalist of the year at the British Journalism Awards) would lie or not check their sources. Thankyou. I will address the issue of UK GDP in my next quarterly review of Brexit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 18, 2022 16:58:10 GMT
I canât access the FT article so cannot say where the figures are from. But I doubt that both the FT and Marina Hyde (winner for the last three years of comment journalist of the year at the British Journalism Awards) would lie or not check their sources. Thankyou. I will address the issue of UK GDP in my next quarterly review of Brexit. Iâll save you the bother. Your conclusion: The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announcement in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit and it is just a massive coincidence, a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putinâs fault, and just coincidentally at exactly the same time as Kwarteng was delivering his budget. And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits Project Fear has now become reality. There you go Mr Coke! Iâve saved you hours.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 19, 2022 9:32:32 GMT
Thankyou. I will address the issue of UK GDP in my next quarterly review of Brexit. Iâll save you the bother. Your conclusion: The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announcement in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit and it is just a massive coincidence, a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putinâs fault, and just coincidentally at exactly the same time as Kwarteng was delivering his budget. And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits Project Fear has now become reality. There you go Mr Coke! Iâve saved you hours. You have! And several episodes of judicious looking the other way when confronted by evidence that doesn't fit the bill!
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2022 11:30:59 GMT
Thankyou. I will address the issue of UK GDP in my next quarterly review of Brexit. Iâll save you the bother. Your conclusion: The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announcement in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit and it is just a massive coincidence, a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putinâs fault, and just coincidentally at exactly the same time as Kwarteng was delivering his budget. And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits Project Fear has now become reality. There you go Mr Coke! Iâve saved you hours. Your post seems to have elicited some support so I will respond. You say "The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announced in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit, it is just a massive coincidence".The UK economy continued to grow after the referendum with record exports in 2018 followed by record exports in 2019. It only went into recession when the pandemic struck. The UK was severely hit by the pandemic due to government policy, GDP dropping more than any of the other peer countries. But the UK came out of recession quicker than the EU due to pursuing our own vaccination policy which the EU derided and actually tried to damage by suggesting what the UK was doing was unsafe/risky. The UK left the EU and had the largest growth of GDP in the G7 in 2021 the first year out of the EU; that performance may have shocked you and others opposed to Brexit. You say "a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putin's fault".The UK economy is not tanking. By tanking I assume recession, which is two quarters of negative growth which will not happen till the end of the year at the earliest. Yes there is a world economic turndown which started in the US, the world's largest economy last year. The US has been in recession and it was always said " When the US sneezes, the UK catches a cold". The UK economy was still growing, not " tanking", in Q2 this year. The world economy has entered into a decline due to post pandemic shortages, such as microchips and building materials, and the zero Covid policy in China, the world's second largest economy. The massive dependence Germany has on Russia and China is now coming home to roost, with the rest of the EU so heavily dependent on the German economy. Which leads to Putin causing the present economic crisis; yes he has. Don't believe me believe the OECD: www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/september-2022/You say "same time as Kwateng delivering his budget".Karteng sacked his chief civil servant and introduced highly irresponsible budget. Don't blame Brexit, because it would not have happened if Johnson had stayed in power, or Sunak became PM, or any of the other candidates probably. You blame Brexit if you want to, you will be wrong as usual on Brexit. You say "And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits that Project Fear has now become reality".There are two issues here. Firstly I think the Telegraph is referring to Kwarteng's budget and its impact on the economy, interest rates, mortgages, etc. In other words Kwarteng is responsible for triggering things that Project Fear said Brexit would do. Seconomy, yes, the Telegraph is wrong. Project Fear said a vote for Brexit would cause a recession; it didn't. We are now entering world recession due to energy inflation as stated by the OECD not Brexit. Project fear said there would be unemployment; it hasn't, unemployment is the lowest for half a century, since before we joined Europe in fact. Project Fear said house prices would tumble; they haven't and have continued to increase despite efforts by the BoE increasing interest rates most of this year. Today the inflation rate was announced to be 10.1%. Virtually the same level as Germany and lower than Belgium and The Netherlands. UK inflation would be lower than the Eurozone if it were not for Makron capping electricity prices in France last year because he wanted to win the presidential election. Something he was able to do because France's electricity is 70% based on nuclear power and government owned. Not that I support France's nuclear programme as they face the prospect of replacing dozens of nuclear power stations or building alternatives; think of all the nuclear waste on our doorstep! It is no coincidence that world inflation rates are lower outside of Europe. To conclude and return to your initial false premises, " the shocking state of the UK economy".If you care to read the OECD latest forcast linked above, they are forecasting that this year the UK will have the joint highest increase in GDP in the G7, higher the Germany, France, US, and Japan. Not bad for an economy that is " tanking" and "in a shocking state" in the second year of Brexit is it ? As for the forcast of UK growth being worse next year, we will see, but I caution those who like to keep knocking the UK, that our performance is invariably better the than international organizations like the OECD, IMF, and world bank predict.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 19, 2022 13:20:19 GMT
Iâll save you the bother. Your conclusion: The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announcement in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit and it is just a massive coincidence, a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putinâs fault, and just coincidentally at exactly the same time as Kwarteng was delivering his budget. And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits Project Fear has now become reality. There you go Mr Coke! Iâve saved you hours. Your post seems to have elicited some support so I will respond. You say "The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announced in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit, it is just a massive coincidence".The UK economy continued to grow after the referendum with record exports in 2018 followed by record exports in 2019. It only went into recession when the pandemic struck. The UK was severely hit by the pandemic due to government policy, GDP dropping more than any of the other peer countries. But the UK came out of recession quicker than the EU due to pursuing our own vaccination policy which the EU derided and actually tried to damage by suggesting what the UK was doing was unsafe/risky. The UK left the EU and had the largest growth of GDP in the G7 in 2021 the first year out of the EU; that performance may have shocked you and others opposed to Brexit. You say "a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putin's fault".The UK economy is not tanking. By tanking I assume recession, which is two quarters of negative growth which will not happen till the end of the year at the earliest. Yes there is a world economic turndown which started in the US, the world's largest economy last year. The US has been in recession and it was always said " When the US sneezes, the UK catches a cold". The UK economy was still growing, not " tanking", in Q2 this year. The world economy has entered into a decline due to post pandemic shortages, such as microchips and building materials, and the zero Covid policy in China, the world's second largest economy. The massive dependence Germany has on Russia and China is now coming home to roost, with the rest of the EU so heavily dependent on the German economy. Which leads to Putin causing the present economic crisis; yes he has. Don't believe me believe the OECD: www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/september-2022/You say "same time as Kwateng delivering his budget".Karteng sacked his chief civil servant and introduced highly irresponsible budget. Don't blame Brexit, because it would not have happened if Johnson had stayed in power, or Sunak became PM, or any of the other candidates probably. You blame Brexit if you want to, you will be wrong as usual on Brexit. You say "And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits that Project Fear has now become reality".There are two issues here. Firstly I think the Telegraph is referring to Kwarteng's budget and its impact on the economy, interest rates, mortgages, etc. In other words Kwarteng is responsible for triggering things that Project Fear said Brexit would do. Seconomy, yes, the Telegraph is wrong. Project Fear said a vote for Brexit would cause a recession; it didn't. We are now entering world recession due to energy inflation as stated by the OECD not Brexit. Project fear said there would be unemployment; it hasn't, unemployment is the lowest for half a century, since before we joined Europe in fact. Project Fear said house prices would tumble; they haven't and have continued to increase despite efforts by the BoE increasing interest rates most of this year. Today the inflation rate was announced to be 10.1%. Virtually the same level as Germany and lower than Belgium and The Netherlands. UK inflation would be lower than the Eurozone if it were not for Makron capping electricity prices in France last year because he wanted to win the presidential election. Something he was able to do because France's electricity is 70% based on nuclear power and government owned. Not that I support France's nuclear programme as they face the prospect of replacing dozens of nuclear power stations or building alternatives; think of all the nuclear waste on our doorstep! It is no coincidence that world inflation rates are lower outside of Europe.  To conclude and return to your initial false premises, " the shocking state of the UK economy".If you care to read the OECD latest forcast linked above, they are forecasting that this year the UK will have the joint highest increase in GDP in the G7, higher the Germany, France, US, and Japan. Not bad for an economy that is " tanking" and "in a shocking state" in the second year of Brexit is it ? As for the forcast if the UK growth being worse next year, we will see, but I caution those who like to keep knocking the UK, that our performance is invariably better the than international organizations like the OECD, IMF, and world bank predict. Out of interest, where you say we had the largest growth of the G7 in 2021, is that compared to 2020? When we had the worst economic drop due to covid compared with elsewhere? Itâs easy to grow if you have done abysmally the year before. We have ripped up our trade agreements, rolled over a handful, increased costs for businesses to trade, and we get about 20% less for ÂŁ1 than we did pre-vote. Even if exports increased by 20% since the vote, that brings you to the same value as 2016 to account for our devalued currency. Next you need to account for inflation, which is very high. So exports of goods and services have in fact dropped in real value. You seem to think our economy is doing well. It isnât. It is suffering more than most. We still havenât recovered to pre pandemic levels. Everywhere else has. Why is that? Brexit and our brexiteer government. Increased GDP could mean the top 1% of businesses are thriving and billionaires are getting richer, but the remaining 99% are suffering and the poor is getting poorer. It doesnât measure the economy very well. Measure wealth by looking at the difference to average incomes. What does that tell us? www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945 âOn present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. â What part of that screams out that our economy is doing well, or even heading in the right direction? They are 2 countries more impacted by the Ukraine war and also suffered through covid. We are going to on average have less income than Slovenians at the end of 2024! Soon Poland will be getting Brits in for cheap labour! Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster, just as I said pre vote on this thread.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2022 16:03:34 GMT
Your post seems to have elicited some support so I will respond. You say "The shocking state of the UK economy since the referendum result announced in 2016 is absolutely nothing to do with brexit, it is just a massive coincidence".The UK economy continued to grow after the referendum with record exports in 2018 followed by record exports in 2019. It only went into recession when the pandemic struck. The UK was severely hit by the pandemic due to government policy, GDP dropping more than any of the other peer countries. But the UK came out of recession quicker than the EU due to pursuing our own vaccination policy which the EU derided and actually tried to damage by suggesting what the UK was doing was unsafe/risky. The UK left the EU and had the largest growth of GDP in the G7 in 2021 the first year out of the EU; that performance may have shocked you and others opposed to Brexit. You say "a bit like the latest tanking of our economy was all Putin's fault".The UK economy is not tanking. By tanking I assume recession, which is two quarters of negative growth which will not happen till the end of the year at the earliest. Yes there is a world economic turndown which started in the US, the world's largest economy last year. The US has been in recession and it was always said " When the US sneezes, the UK catches a cold". The UK economy was still growing, not " tanking", in Q2 this year. The world economy has entered into a decline due to post pandemic shortages, such as microchips and building materials, and the zero Covid policy in China, the world's second largest economy. The massive dependence Germany has on Russia and China is now coming home to roost, with the rest of the EU so heavily dependent on the German economy. Which leads to Putin causing the present economic crisis; yes he has. Don't believe me believe the OECD: www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/september-2022/You say "same time as Kwateng delivering his budget".Karteng sacked his chief civil servant and introduced highly irresponsible budget. Don't blame Brexit, because it would not have happened if Johnson had stayed in power, or Sunak became PM, or any of the other candidates probably. You blame Brexit if you want to, you will be wrong as usual on Brexit. You say "And the Telegraph is wrong when it admits that Project Fear has now become reality".There are two issues here. Firstly I think the Telegraph is referring to Kwarteng's budget and its impact on the economy, interest rates, mortgages, etc. In other words Kwarteng is responsible for triggering things that Project Fear said Brexit would do. Seconomy, yes, the Telegraph is wrong. Project Fear said a vote for Brexit would cause a recession; it didn't. We are now entering world recession due to energy inflation as stated by the OECD not Brexit. Project fear said there would be unemployment; it hasn't, unemployment is the lowest for half a century, since before we joined Europe in fact. Project Fear said house prices would tumble; they haven't and have continued to increase despite efforts by the BoE increasing interest rates most of this year. Today the inflation rate was announced to be 10.1%. Virtually the same level as Germany and lower than Belgium and The Netherlands. UK inflation would be lower than the Eurozone if it were not for Makron capping electricity prices in France last year because he wanted to win the presidential election. Something he was able to do because France's electricity is 70% based on nuclear power and government owned. Not that I support France's nuclear programme as they face the prospect of replacing dozens of nuclear power stations or building alternatives; think of all the nuclear waste on our doorstep! It is no coincidence that world inflation rates are lower outside of Europe. To conclude and return to your initial false premises, " the shocking state of the UK economy".If you care to read the OECD latest forcast linked above, they are forecasting that this year the UK will have the joint highest increase in GDP in the G7, higher the Germany, France, US, and Japan. Not bad for an economy that is " tanking" and "in a shocking state" in the second year of Brexit is it ? As for the forcast if the UK growth being worse next year, we will see, but I caution those who like to keep knocking the UK, that our performance is invariably better the than international organizations like the OECD, IMF, and world bank predict. Out of interest, where you say we had the largest growth of the G7 in 2021, is that compared to 2020? When we had the worst economic drop due to covid compared with elsewhere? Itâs easy to grow if you have done abysmally the year before. We have ripped up our trade agreements, rolled over a handful, increased costs for businesses to trade, and we get about 20% less for ÂŁ1 than we did pre-vote. Even if exports increased by 20% since the vote, that brings you to the same value as 2016 to account for our devalued currency. Next you need to account for inflation, which is very high. So exports of goods and services have in fact dropped in real value. You seem to think our economy is doing well. It isnât. It is suffering more than most. We still havenât recovered to pre pandemic levels. Everywhere else has. Why is that? Brexit and our brexiteer government. Increased GDP could mean the top 1% of businesses are thriving and billionaires are getting richer, but the remaining 99% are suffering and the poor is getting poorer. It doesnât measure the economy very well. Measure wealth by looking at the difference to average incomes. What does that tell us? www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945 âOn present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. â What part of that screams out that our economy is doing well, or even heading in the right direction? They are 2 countries more impacted by the Ukraine war and also suffered through covid. We are going to on average have less income than Slovenians at the end of 2024! Soon Poland will be getting Brits in for cheap labour! Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster, just as I said pre vote on this thread. It is easier to grow from a poor position and difficult if you leave the EU customs union, the fact is the economy grew after leaving the EU faster than the rest of the G7. I'm not aware of ripping up any trade agreements, just leaving the EU customs union to reestablish sovereignty so we can make our own trade agreements and making steady progress. There were well over 60 former EU trade agreements with other countries rolled over, not a "handful" , and modified the terms with Japan and African countries. We have reestablished the sovereignty of Parliament to make our laws, unfortunately the current inmates are in charge, and we are no longer subject to EUCJ except in NI. The falling value of the ÂŁ has been happening for generations. It fell by half against the $ while the UK was in EEC/EU. So you think that UK EU membership was a success for the ÂŁ? We can play games with statistics for ever, which something those opposed to Brexit have been doing the last 6 years. You can extrapolate numbers and trends and get silly statements like your references to Slovenia and Poland. Incidentally have you seen wages rises in Poland, inflation in Poland (17%), and how much money Poland gets from the EU*, that thank God, the UK is no longer funding? You seem to consider Brexit totally in monetary terms so this should make you happy: tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gross-national-product* www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 19, 2022 16:32:33 GMT
Out of interest, where you say we had the largest growth of the G7 in 2021, is that compared to 2020? When we had the worst economic drop due to covid compared with elsewhere? Itâs easy to grow if you have done abysmally the year before. We have ripped up our trade agreements, rolled over a handful, increased costs for businesses to trade, and we get about 20% less for ÂŁ1 than we did pre-vote. Even if exports increased by 20% since the vote, that brings you to the same value as 2016 to account for our devalued currency. Next you need to account for inflation, which is very high. So exports of goods and services have in fact dropped in real value. You seem to think our economy is doing well. It isnât. It is suffering more than most. We still havenât recovered to pre pandemic levels. Everywhere else has. Why is that? Brexit and our brexiteer government. Increased GDP could mean the top 1% of businesses are thriving and billionaires are getting richer, but the remaining 99% are suffering and the poor is getting poorer. It doesnât measure the economy very well. Measure wealth by looking at the difference to average incomes. What does that tell us? www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945 âOn present trends, the average Slovenian household will be better off than its British counterpart by 2024, and the average Polish family will move ahead before the end of the decade. â What part of that screams out that our economy is doing well, or even heading in the right direction? They are 2 countries more impacted by the Ukraine war and also suffered through covid. We are going to on average have less income than Slovenians at the end of 2024! Soon Poland will be getting Brits in for cheap labour! Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster, just as I said pre vote on this thread. It is easier to grow from a poor position and difficult if you leave the EU customs union, the fact is the economy grew after leaving the EU faster than the rest of the G7. I'm not aware of ripping up any trade agreements, just leaving the EU customs union to reestablish sovereignty so we can make our own trade agreements and making steady progress. There were well over 60 former EU trade agreements with other countries rolled over, not a "handful" , and modified the terms with Japan and African countries. We have reestablished the sovereignty of Parliament to make our laws, unfortunately the current inmates are in charge, and we are no longer subject to EUCJ except in NI. The falling value of the ÂŁ has been happening for generations. It fell by half against the $ while the UK was in EEC/EU. So you think that UK EU membership was a success for the ÂŁ? We can play games with statistics for ever, which something those opposed to Brexit have been doing the last 6 years. You can extrapolate numbers and trends and get silly statements like your references to Slovenia and Poland. Incidentally have you seen wages rises in Poland, inflation in Poland (17%), and how much money Poland gets from the EU*, that thank God, the UK is no longer funding? You seem to consider Brexit totally in monetary terms so this should make you happy: tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gross-national-product*Â www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/We lost every trade agreement we were a signatory to when we left. Thatâs how EU membership works. You cannot sign other free trade agreements. Sovereignty!? Like how our government makes a load of laws, then the markets say no forcing our government to U turn. North Korea is the most sovereign nation on earth. Why do you aspire to not be part of the globalised world? Our economy is in a bad way, and the trend here is worse than elsewhere when you compare with comparable nations. So much so average income will be less here than slovenia by the end of 2024 and poland by the end of the decade, unless things change. Is that what you voted for? Even the daily telegraph disagrees with you and admits project fear has come to pass. But you will never admit you are and were wrong about your beloved right wing free marketeer anti foreigner brexit!
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 19, 2022 17:01:21 GMT
Brexit - a vanity project to stop the Tory Party disintegrating- well that's going well.
Behind every Prime Minister breaking his own rules, every mini-budget catastrophe, lies Brexit.
The idea we got Brexit done is laughable, the first thing politicians start talking about when the Home Secretary is replaced is how the replacement voted on Brexit.
What a shambles this naive, futile exercise has been.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2022 17:01:22 GMT
It is easier to grow from a poor position and difficult if you leave the EU customs union, the fact is the economy grew after leaving the EU faster than the rest of the G7. I'm not aware of ripping up any trade agreements, just leaving the EU customs union to reestablish sovereignty so we can make our own trade agreements and making steady progress. There were well over 60 former EU trade agreements with other countries rolled over, not a "handful" , and modified the terms with Japan and African countries. We have reestablished the sovereignty of Parliament to make our laws, unfortunately the current inmates are in charge, and we are no longer subject to EUCJ except in NI. The falling value of the ÂŁ has been happening for generations. It fell by half against the $ while the UK was in EEC/EU. So you think that UK EU membership was a success for the ÂŁ? We can play games with statistics for ever, which something those opposed to Brexit have been doing the last 6 years. You can extrapolate numbers and trends and get silly statements like your references to Slovenia and Poland. Incidentally have you seen wages rises in Poland, inflation in Poland (17%), and how much money Poland gets from the EU*, that thank God, the UK is no longer funding? You seem to consider Brexit totally in monetary terms so this should make you happy: tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gross-national-product* www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/We lost every trade agreement we were a signatory to when we left. Thatâs how EU membership works. You cannot sign other free trade agreements. Sovereignty!? Like how our government makes a load of laws, then the markets say no forcing our government to U turn. North Korea is the most sovereign nation on earth. Why do you aspire to not be part of the globalised world? Our economy is in a bad way, and the trend here is worse than elsewhere when you compare with comparable nations. So much so average income will be less here than slovenia by the end of 2024 and poland by the end of the decade, unless things change. Is that what you voted for? Even the daily telegraph disagrees with you and admits project fear has come to pass. But you will never admit you are and were wrong about your beloved right wing free marketeer anti foreigner brexit! I think this answers your first statement: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_agreements_of_the_United_KingdomI want the UK to be sovereign like over 150 self-governing members of the United Nations like Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc. Not a member of an ever closer union making laws that the UK cannot change by a majority of people we cannot change. I've already answered your 3rd and 4th points above. I am a free marketeer and welcome the UK action to reduce barriers to trade with Africa* and other developing countries. I am not right wing and neither are many left wing politicians opposed to EU membership. I am not anti foreigner and neither are the immigrants from Asia and Africa in the church and prayer group I attend who all support Brexit. My brother lived in Australia and a sister in New Zealand, and was married to a Dubliner, so I feel very "globalised" thankyou. * www.africanews.com/2022/08/16/uk-to-cut-taxes-from-around-99-of-goods-imported-from-africa//
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 19, 2022 17:03:45 GMT
We lost every trade agreement we were a signatory to when we left. Thatâs how EU membership works. You cannot sign other free trade agreements. Sovereignty!? Like how our government makes a load of laws, then the markets say no forcing our government to U turn. North Korea is the most sovereign nation on earth. Why do you aspire to not be part of the globalised world? Our economy is in a bad way, and the trend here is worse than elsewhere when you compare with comparable nations. So much so average income will be less here than slovenia by the end of 2024 and poland by the end of the decade, unless things change. Is that what you voted for? Even the daily telegraph disagrees with you and admits project fear has come to pass. But you will never admit you are and were wrong about your beloved right wing free marketeer anti foreigner brexit! I think this answers your first statement: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_agreements_of_the_United_KingdomI want the UK to be sovereign like over 150 self-governing members of the United Nations like Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc. Not a member of an ever closer union making laws that the UK cannot change by a majority of people we cannot change. I've already answered your 3rd and 4th points above. I am a free marketeer and welcome the UK action to reduce barriers to trade with Africa* and other developing countries. I am not right wing and neither are many left wing politicians opposed to EU membership. I am not anti foreigner and neither are the immigrants from Asia and Africa in the church and prayer group I attend who all support Brexit. My brother lived in Australia and a sister in New Zealand, and was married to a Dublin, so I feel very "globalised" thankyou. If the Uk is sovereign, why donât we just lower the price of gas?
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2022 17:08:13 GMT
I think this answers your first statement: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_agreements_of_the_United_KingdomI want the UK to be sovereign like over 150 self-governing members of the United Nations like Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand etc. Not a member of an ever closer union making laws that the UK cannot change by a majority of people we cannot change. I've already answered your 3rd and 4th points above. I am a free marketeer and welcome the UK action to reduce barriers to trade with Africa* and other developing countries. I am not right wing and neither are many left wing politicians opposed to EU membership. I am not anti foreigner and neither are the immigrants from Asia and Africa in the church and prayer group I attend who all support Brexit. My brother lived in Australia and a sister in New Zealand, and was married to a Dublin, so I feel very "globalised" thankyou. If the Uk is sovereign, why donât we just lower the price of gas? The government just have. My bill goes up substantially later this month but less than world market price because of government action, which any government can do.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 19, 2022 17:25:37 GMT
If the Uk is sovereign, why donât we just lower the price of gas? The government just have. My bill goes up substantially later this month but less than world market price because of government action, which any government can do. It's not less than the market price though is it? The market for wholesale energy has plummeted. Furthermore the Government has done nothing more than spend our tax for us and put us all in years of debt. We could have done all if that inside the EU.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Oct 19, 2022 17:51:16 GMT
I see Comical Ali Coke still banging on about his beloved Brexit - what a disaster.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 19, 2022 18:32:39 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Oct 19, 2022 19:08:30 GMT
You just type stuff without reading anything don't you?
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 20, 2022 6:17:27 GMT
Here is some more up to date evidence against you: Trade to the EU is down 16% what it should be. Trade from the EU to the UK is down 20%. The exception is of course N Ire which is trading much more than the rest of the UK with the EU because it has no barriers to trade. Our trade with the rest of the world has grown comparatively slowly compared with the EUâs trade with the rest of the world also. www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/20/trade-from-uk-to-eu-16-lower-than-if-brexit-had-not-happened-report-findsOne third of businesses no longer export abroad. So many livelihoods lost. You will say who cares, as long as the biggest UK businesses are still exporting and their multi millionaire shareholders are making massive profits then you will say that is evidence of brexit being a success. Screw the small and medium businesses and the thousands of livelihoods lost, as long as the rich are doing well!
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 20, 2022 9:09:23 GMT
Here is some more up to date evidence against you: Trade to the EU is down 16% what it should be. Trade from the EU to the UK is down 20%. The exception is of course N Ire which is trading much more than the rest of the UK with the EU because it has no barriers to trade. Our trade with the rest of the world has grown comparatively slowly compared with the EUâs trade with the rest of the world also. www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/20/trade-from-uk-to-eu-16-lower-than-if-brexit-had-not-happened-report-findsOne third of businesses no longer export abroad. So many livelihoods lost. You will say who cares, as long as the biggest UK businesses are still exporting and their multi millionaire shareholders are making massive profits then you will say that is evidence of brexit being a success. Screw the small and medium businesses and the thousands of livelihoods lost, as long as the rich are doing well! Trade with the EU is not down 16% on what it " should be" because: 1. We are still recovering from the pandemic and there are still shortages of materials. 2. We have left the customs union and that is bound to reduce trade with the EU, it is nonsense to suggest things would remain the same. 3. Transport costs have increased due to the higher costs of fuel, labour, container hire, etc. making a great deal of marginal business not worth while for businesses. 4. EU red tape makes it not worth while small businesses engaging in selling to the EU. 5. Many small businesses, particularly food are concentrating more on the home market, because: 5.1. Since the pandemic UK home demand for UK products has increased. 5.2. EU exporters are meeting the same problems as UK exporters in 3 above.
6. There was a sharp drop in trade immediately after Brexit and as your link states it is slowly recovering as exporters get used to the rules and take action like setting up offices and depots in the EU. 7. The "Rotterdam Effect" has significantly changed how trade is measured. Previously if an African country (X) exports corn oil to the UK, it is likely that it will pass through Rotterdam, on its way to the UK. If this is recorded as a flow from country X to the EU, and then from the EU to the UK, it will have the effect of over-valuing EU trade with the UK, and undervaluing non-EU trade with the UK. While this distortionary effect would arise from trade through any EU port such as Antwerp, Rotterdam is a particularly significant port, especially in terms of trade in oil and other commodities. The UK (and other oil exporters) ship large quantities of crude oil to the Netherlands to take advantage of its oil refining capacity, but the refined oil ends up in a variety of countries, many of which are not in the EU. Ireland imports a great deal from the EU that travels through the UK. Some of this would previously be counted as import from UK, the amount is unknown. Now the same goods are either transport directly from the continent to Ireland or credited with the true country of origin. The full effect of the "Rotterdam Effect" is unknown, analysis of nations consumption per head have been done which show The Netherlands is higher than other countries which confirms its significance. 8. In January 2021 and January 2022 the UK government changed the method of calculating trade. UK trade with the rest of the world is growing, albeit slowly due to the pandemic effect, recession in US, economic slowdown in China and and common sense will appreciate that the UK will not instantly replace lost EU trade with other trade; it will take years to build up and we make trade agreements and businesses focus on other markets. I think your comment " Screw the small and medium businesses and the thousands of livelihoods lost, as long as the rich are doing well!" does not fit the facts. 93 new businesses were created every hour across the UK in the first half of 2022, according to small business lender iwoca. Analysis of Companies House data revealed that over 402,000 businesses were registered in the UK between January and June 2022. London saw the highest business creation rate per capita with 1,587 new businesses per 100,000 residents, followed by the West Midlands with 571. In July the Northern Echo reported that 4,135 new businesses were established in the North East alone in quarter 2, according to analysis by insolvency and restructuring trade body R3 of new data provided by CreditSafe. This was on the back of 4,187 in quarter 1. Unemployment is at its lowest level since 1974, before we joined the EEC/EU! This sort of good news gets little press though, and it is an inevitable fact that record new business will lead to record business failures as a fifth of new businesses fail in their first year and 60% within 3 years. That is the sort of news the media love to shout about, so we can expect a lot of grim news in the media, no doubt blaming Brexit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 20, 2022 9:38:52 GMT
Here is some more up to date evidence against you: Trade to the EU is down 16% what it should be. Trade from the EU to the UK is down 20%. The exception is of course N Ire which is trading much more than the rest of the UK with the EU because it has no barriers to trade. Our trade with the rest of the world has grown comparatively slowly compared with the EUâs trade with the rest of the world also. www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/20/trade-from-uk-to-eu-16-lower-than-if-brexit-had-not-happened-report-findsOne third of businesses no longer export abroad. So many livelihoods lost. You will say who cares, as long as the biggest UK businesses are still exporting and their multi millionaire shareholders are making massive profits then you will say that is evidence of brexit being a success. Screw the small and medium businesses and the thousands of livelihoods lost, as long as the rich are doing well! Trade with the EU is not down 16% on what it " should be" because: 1. We are still recovering from the pandemic and there are still shortages of materials. 2. We have left the customs union and that is bound to reduce trade with the EU, it is nonsense to suggest things would remain the same. 3. Transport costs have increased due to the higher costs of fuel, labour, container hire, etc. making a great deal of marginal business not worth while for businesses. 4. EU red tape makes it not worth while small businesses engaging in selling to the EU. 5. Many small businesses, particularly food are concentrating more on the home market, because:   5.1. Since the pandemic UK home demand for UK products has increased.   5.2. EU exporters are meeting the same problems as UK exporters in 3 above.
6. There was a sharp drop in trade immediately after Brexit and as your link states it is slowly recovering as exporters get used to the rules and take action like setting up offices and depots in the EU. 7. The "Rotterdam Effect" has significantly changed how trade is measured. Previously if an African country (X) exports corn oil to the UK, it is likely that it will pass through Rotterdam, on its way to the UK. If this is recorded as a flow from country X to the EU, and then from the EU to the UK, it will have the effect of over-valuing EU trade with the UK, and undervaluing non-EU trade with the UK. While this distortionary effect would arise from trade through any EU port such as Antwerp, Rotterdam is a particularly significant port, especially in terms of trade in oil and other commodities. The UK (and other oil exporters) ship large quantities of crude oil to the Netherlands to take advantage of its oil refining capacity, but the refined oil ends up in a variety of countries, many of which are not in the EU. Ireland imports a great deal from the EU that travels through the UK. Some of this would previously be counted as import from UK, the amount is unknown. Now the same goods are either transport directly from the continent to Ireland or credited with the true country of origin. The full effect of the "Rotterdam Effect" is unknown, analysis of nations consumption per head have been done which show The Netherlands is higher than other countries which confirms its significance. 8. In January 2021 and January 2022 the UK government changed the method of calculating trade. UK trade with the rest of the world is growing, albeit slowly due to the pandemic effect, recession in US, economic slowdown in China and and common sense will appreciate that the UK will not instantly replace lost EU trade with other trade; it will take years to build up and we make trade agreements and businesses focus on other markets. I think your comment " Screw the small and medium businesses and the thousands of livelihoods lost, as long as the rich are doing well!" does not fit the facts. 93 new businesses were created every hour across the UK in the first half of 2022, according to small business lender iwoca. Analysis of Companies House data revealed that over 402,000 businesses were registered in the UK between January and June 2022. London saw the highest business creation rate per capita with 1,587 new businesses per 100,000 residents, followed by the West Midlands with 571. In July the Northern Echo reported that 4,135 new businesses were established in the North East alone in quarter 2, according to analysis by insolvency and restructuring trade body R3 of new data provided by CreditSafe. This was on the back of 4,187 in quarter 1. Unemployment is at its lowest level since 1974, before we joined the EEC/EU! This sort of good news gets little press though, and it is an inevitable fact that record new business will lead to record business failures as a fifth of new businesses fail in their first year and 60% within 3 years. That is the sort of news the media love to shout about, so we can expect a lot of grim news in the media, no doubt blaming Brexit.     And the earth is flat, the sky isnât blue, covid isnât real, Truss is a great leader and Brexit wasnât a mistake!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 21, 2022 5:56:54 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 21, 2022 6:36:57 GMT
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Post by Gob Bluth on Oct 21, 2022 7:19:57 GMT
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Post by toppercorner on Oct 21, 2022 11:22:11 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 21, 2022 14:24:29 GMT
Thanks for that, I have a few observations. Firstly I am genuinely sorry for those businesses that have suffered as a direct consequence of leaving the EU. I have always said that those dealing with the EU were bound to see an adverse impact. On the other side of the coin, as I have posted in my quarterly reviews, there are businesses benefitting. Surely the acid test is how many bankruptcies and unemployment there is as a consequence of Brexit? Secondly, I am pleased that the article admits the much of project fear was incorrect and exaggerations. Unlike many on this MB, Guardian, Independent, and commentators like James O'Brien the film says Brexit is not a car crash more like a slow puncture. I agree with the article that the impacts of the pandemic and war are masking Brexit impacts. We will not know the true picture for years to come. It annoys me intensely that Brexit gets the blame for everything as though the pandemic never happened, the war doesn't exist, and even government policies and upheavals weren't happening, and other countries are suffering the same economic problems. The US has been in recession this year, when did it leave the EU? There are EU countries with higher inflation than the UK. To conclude and return to the slow puncture. Trade with the EU is growing back (I'll give details in my next quarterly review) not declining. The EU will always be our main trading partner driven by gravity theory. I am confident that the rest of the world's over 80% of the world economy will keep UK trade inflated in years to come, especially as it is growing faster than the <20% EU share of world economy. Furthermore I believe it can be achieved by still avoiding to be massively dependent on Russia and China the way the EU has become, for which it will pay heavily.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 21, 2022 14:35:45 GMT
Thanks for that, I have a few observations. Firstly I am genuinely sorry for those businesses that have suffered as a direct consequence of leaving the EU. I have always said that those dealing with the EU were bound to see an adverse impact. On the other side of the coin, as I have posted in my quarterly reviews, there are businesses benefitting. Surely the acid test is how many bankruptcies and unemployment there is as a consequence of Brexit? Secondly, I am pleased that the article admits the much of project fear was incorrect and exaggerations. Unlike many on this MB, Guardian, Independent, and commentators like James O'Brien the film says Brexit is not a car crash more like a slow puncture. I agree with the article that the impacts of the pandemic and war are masking Brexit impacts. We will not know the true picture for years to come. It annoys me intensely that Brexit gets the blame for everything as though the pandemic never happened, the war doesn't exist, and even government policies and upheavals weren't happening, and other countries are suffering the same economic problems. The US has been in recession this year, when did it leave the EU? There are EU countries with higher inflation than the UK. To conclude and return to the slow puncture. Trade with the EU is growing back (I'll give details in my next quarterly review) not declining. The EU will always be our main trading partner driven by gravity theory. I am confident that the rest of the world's over 80% of the world economy will keep UK trade inflated in years to come, especially as it is growing faster than the <20% EU share of world economy. Furthermore I believe it can be achieved by still avoiding to be massively dependent on Russia and China the way the EU has become, for which it will pay heavily. So why didnât the leave campaign sell brexit to us by describing it as a âslow punctureâ? Oh, because punctures are bad. Not good. And brexit has been bad, not good.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 21, 2022 17:45:31 GMT
Thanks for that, I have a few observations. Firstly I am genuinely sorry for those businesses that have suffered as a direct consequence of leaving the EU. I have always said that those dealing with the EU were bound to see an adverse impact. On the other side of the coin, as I have posted in my quarterly reviews, there are businesses benefitting. Surely the acid test is how many bankruptcies and unemployment there is as a consequence of Brexit? Secondly, I am pleased that the article admits the much of project fear was incorrect and exaggerations. Unlike many on this MB, Guardian, Independent, and commentators like James O'Brien the film says Brexit is not a car crash more like a slow puncture. I agree with the article that the impacts of the pandemic and war are masking Brexit impacts. We will not know the true picture for years to come. It annoys me intensely that Brexit gets the blame for everything as though the pandemic never happened, the war doesn't exist, and even government policies and upheavals weren't happening, and other countries are suffering the same economic problems. The US has been in recession this year, when did it leave the EU? There are EU countries with higher inflation than the UK. To conclude and return to the slow puncture. Trade with the EU is growing back (I'll give details in my next quarterly review) not declining. The EU will always be our main trading partner driven by gravity theory. I am confident that the rest of the world's over 80% of the world economy will keep UK trade inflated in years to come, especially as it is growing faster than the <20% EU share of world economy. Furthermore I believe it can be achieved by still avoiding to be massively dependent on Russia and China the way the EU has become, for which it will pay heavily. With acknowledgement to Oggy who posted the Link to excellent Politico Article The Quote from Article brilliantly sums up the Jam Tomorrow excuses of Brexiteers and anything not equivalent to pre Brexit never mind an improvement is put down to a multitude of external factors and Brexit is never a factor " When the spaceship doesnât arrive,â he said, âthe cultists simply say âwe got the date wrongâ, and that it will be coming in two yearsâ time.â Tim Bale, Professor of Politics at Queen Mary University London"Mr Coke I'm sure you'll highlight/exclude the LNG momentarily passing through UK to EU which is artificially inflating your Report. Come to think of it a pity UK shut down its own Gas Storage capacity leaving us with only 1% of total European Gas Storage Capacity it could have provided some security on the possibility of the lights going out this winter.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Oct 22, 2022 15:56:53 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 22, 2022 20:39:28 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 24, 2022 8:16:47 GMT
Perhaps they all voted leave and have now realised what a mistake that was.
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