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Post by wannabee on Oct 15, 2022 20:18:23 GMT
Whoosh, your lack of intelligence failed to comprehend that 80,000 Tory Party Members Elected the PM I still don’t get the point and I don’t know how it’s got anything to do with Brexit. I have no issue with a party voting in their own leader. If you want to change the electoral system itself, perhaps start a petition and get enough signatories for it to be debated? There is a notable Poster on this thread who maintains for him Sovereignty was the essential reason for him voting for Brexit, although he does try to defend the Economic consequences He maintains that Sovereignty has been restored whereby MPs are Elected and can be removed at periodic Elections and decisions are not taken in Brussels and Strasbourg All fair enough up to a point. What defines a Parliamentary Democracy is that the MPs of the Party(s) will the most MPs elect The Prime Minister This recent farce of Tory Party Members deciding the Prime Minister is the Antithesis of Parliamentary Democracy et ergo Sovereignty My Barb was directed towards said Poster
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Post by toppercorner on Oct 15, 2022 23:00:28 GMT
the telegraph admitting brexit is a disaster is a huge turn of events
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Post by wannabee on Oct 16, 2022 0:20:21 GMT
the telegraph admitting brexit is a disaster is a huge turn of events This sad State of Affairs and its belated recognition brings me nothing but sadness These Madcap Brexiteers have visited irreparable harm on a once proud Nation renowned for Prudence and the International Rule of Law, all abandoned. The Soft Power UK may once have enjoyed has been eroded and is now ridiculed because of the external policies it has pursued for the last six years The sideshow of corrupt and incompetent Government pales against the arrogance of more fundamental self harming decisions
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 16, 2022 0:30:48 GMT
I can’t believe how thick people are for actually thinking it would work.
People conned.
We had the best deal. And spunked it up the wall and what for?
Fucking Brexiteers. Thick as.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 16, 2022 6:21:41 GMT
I can’t believe how thick people are for actually thinking it would work. People conned. We had the best deal. And spunked it up the wall and what for? Fucking Brexiteers. Thick as. It was blind faith. They voted brexit without being told what brexit was, and they were too stupid to work it out for themselves (or to listen my thousands of posts on this thread). Now we are all suffering the consequences. The biggest joke is the man who led the leave campaign was PM and he was still too scared of the damage brexit would cause to the country if he fully implemented his deal he struck with the EU! We still haven’t even implemented what brexit means yet!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 16, 2022 6:26:17 GMT
Let's just revisit that statement from the arch-Brexiteer newspaper, The Daily Telegraph..."Project Fear was right all along".
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 16, 2022 8:20:16 GMT
Rees-Mogg and Farage - what they said about the mini-budget was bollocks and what they said about Brexit was bollocks, yet the die-hard Brexit supporters somehow say that while the mini-budget was crap, Brexit was great. No it wasn't- both were shite.
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Post by skemstokie on Oct 16, 2022 8:24:25 GMT
This new Sovereignty, which we always had is working really well First Tory MPs got rid of Boris who had blotted his copybook once too often. Fair enough I suppose Next we had a Talentless Contest of Coquettish hopefuls parading their alleged talents. Importantly MPs voted them off one by one. Also fair enough Ultimately we get down to the Two Candidates most favoured by MPs. The Tory Membership then made the final selection, all 80,000 of them How on God's Green Earth is this Sovereignty by any definition The fact the Tory Membership selected a Total Lunatic as PM who trashed the Economy is merely incidental We then had a Coup where the PMs co-conspirator in the trashing of the Economy was ousted and replaced by another as Chancellor This new Chancellor has/will now reverse everything The Lunatic had asked the previous Chancellor to put in place. The Lunatic remains in Office as PM but new Chancellor is in Power A peculiar British kind of Sovereignty You don’t vote for a party leader in a general election, you vote for your local MP. It’s not that hard to understand. Sooner we go to P.R. voting the better are system does not represent the views of the majority,first past the post my arse.
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 16, 2022 8:28:27 GMT
I can’t believe how thick people are for actually thinking it would work. People conned. We had the best deal. And spunked it up the wall and what for? Fucking Brexiteers. Thick as. 🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱
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Post by yeswilko on Oct 16, 2022 8:40:28 GMT
I can’t believe how thick people are for actually thinking it would work. People conned. We had the best deal. And spunked it up the wall and what for? Fucking Brexiteers. Thick as. I have come across a few brexiters that weren't as thick as mince, but tbf they had realised the drastic mistake that they'd made, and were open and honest about falling for complete lies.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 16, 2022 8:41:46 GMT
I can’t believe how thick people are for actually thinking it would work. People conned. We had the best deal. And spunked it up the wall and what for? Fucking Brexiteers. Thick as. I have come across a few brexiters that weren't as thick as mince, but tbf they had realised the drastic mistake that they'd made, and were open and honest about falling for complete lies. Respect to them but I’m still not having how anyone could have been duped in the first place with such blatant bullshit.
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Post by yeswilko on Oct 16, 2022 9:09:18 GMT
I have come across a few brexiters that weren't as thick as mince, but tbf they had realised the drastic mistake that they'd made, and were open and honest about falling for complete lies. Respect to them but I’m still not having how anyone could have been duped in the first place with such blatant bullshit. I suppose the bullshit went hand in hand with xenophobia.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 16, 2022 12:23:19 GMT
Let's just revisit that statement from the arch-Brexiteer newspaper, The Daily Telegraph..."Project Fear was right all along". This will help those who still sign their name with crayons. Bug seriously, someone should check in on The Telegraph, clearly been infiltrated by the anti-growth coalition.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 16, 2022 22:33:11 GMT
It's pretty clear the only way this country saves itself is rejoining the EU.
What a fucking shitshow.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 17, 2022 0:19:29 GMT
It's pretty clear the only way this country saves itself is rejoining the EU. What a fucking shitshow. A lot of people will instantly dismiss this article because it's Jonathan Freedland but I'd suggest, it's a truth that six years on, they just simply don't want to even contemplate, yet imho, it's one of the articles of the year ...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 17, 2022 5:57:09 GMT
It's pretty clear the only way this country saves itself is rejoining the EU. What a fucking shitshow. A lot of people will instantly dismiss this article because it's Jonathan Freedland but I'd suggest, it's a truth that six years on, they just simply don't want to even contemplate, yet imho, it's one of the articles of the year ... And it was so utterly predictable.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Oct 17, 2022 6:16:50 GMT
A lot of people will instantly dismiss this article because it's Jonathan Freedland but I'd suggest, it's a truth that six years on, they just simply don't want to even contemplate, yet imho, it's one of the articles of the year ... And it was so utterly predictable. There are quite a few football related posts that I disagree with you on but I'm in full agreement with you on your views around Brexit. It was quite frankly the worst decision that we have made as a country. What an absolute fucking disaster! I'm pleased that I wasn't stupid enough to fall for the shit. If Farage spouting his shit propaganda wasn't enough for people to realise that it was going to be a shit show....
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Post by wannabee on Oct 17, 2022 8:59:43 GMT
It's pretty clear the only way this country saves itself is rejoining the EU. What a fucking shitshow. A lot of people will instantly dismiss this article because it's Jonathan Freedland but I'd suggest, it's a truth that six years on, they just simply don't want to even contemplate, yet imho, it's one of the articles of the year ... There will be some, even on this MB, who will cling to the "Sovereignty Delusion" and will blame "Trussonomics" which is the outcome rather than "Brexit" which is the disease The "Sovereignty Delusionists" will never accept that an Imperial Britain can not stand alone on the Global Stage because it's just not that relevant anymore It is a shock even an affront to their system that Brexit has reduced the size of the Economy rather than other Countries clammering for our Trade. To such an extent UK is even running a Current Account Deficit and when it asked Johnny Foreigner for some money to finance the Overdraft it came with very specific conditions, not at all fitting the Global Britain Delusion. These Archetypal Believers will never give up the dream and will trot out many reasons to justify their woolly thinking They weren't alone in voting for this disaster but for others the reasons were more prosaic For "Red Wallers" who had been fed a diet of Austerity for 6 years at this point and with Inflation and Interest Rates low it seemed a low risk decision Having made the decision and been on the "winning side" , for a change, they defended their decision with a febrile passion It seems Turkeys do sometimes vote for Christmas and the painful reality is now coming home to roost Immigration in its many dimensions was also a factor It must be interesting to those who saw this as a motivation to vote for Brexit to see the actual Immigration numbers go up since Brexit They will console themselves that it is now controlled Immigration (as if the Home Office could control anything) The recent drip drip from right-wing MSN that Immigration must increase further to allow UK to grow Economy must come as quite a shock to the system The real Villains of course are the "Wide-Boys" like Rees-Mogg and his Acolytes who financed the Brainwashing They saw it as an opportunity to Deregulate The City outside of a Rules Based EU to pursue all sorts of nefarious activities. They are The Puppeteers and they've already had significant wins. First off on a plunging Pound on night of Brexit result More recently by installed Puppets Truss/Kwarteng removing Bonus Cap (no it hasn't been reversed) and then making another killing by Shorting the Pound while it's useful Idiot carried out its bidding. These "Chaps" are still in place and have the wherewithal to corrupt any Government for its own ends
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Post by roylandstoke on Oct 17, 2022 14:13:37 GMT
A sensible brexit was possible.
Britain decided to elect a right-wing tory government instead.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 17, 2022 14:25:37 GMT
Ha ha Right on cue
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Post by foster on Oct 17, 2022 14:40:35 GMT
Brexit has been an absolute shocker, but as that guy on LBC said, there's no point gloating about it.
I think it's time the UK just accepted that going it alone isn't going to work in todays globalised world and that sovereignty in whatever form Brexiteers thought it would be isn't as sovereign as they signed up for.
Just re-join the EU. We'll go back with our tail between our legs and be a laughing stock for a few months but we can get through that. The important thing is to do what's best for the UK and it's population.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 17, 2022 16:37:06 GMT
Brexit has been an absolute shocker, but as that guy on LBC said, there's no point gloating about it. I think it's time the UK just accepted that going it alone isn't going to work in todays globalised world and that sovereignty in whatever form Brexiteers thought it would be isn't as sovereign as they signed up for. Just re-join the EU. We'll go back with our tail between our legs and be a laughing stock for a few months but we can get through that. The important thing is to do what's best for the UK and it's population. I think James O'Brien may not have been outright gloating but he couldn't hold back on who visited this appalling vista upon us I'm as anti-Brexit as the next but even I would accept that rejoining EU now although I believe it would be carried by a Referendum, if that were the Test, would only prolong uncertainty and upheaval at this point in time The severity of the negative impact of Brexit was magnified by the type of Brexit chosen. It has turned Brexit into a Pissing Contest with the biggest loser (and there are 2) the one with the smallest appendage At a stroke if UK Government wished it could agree to Harmonisation on Manufacturing and Agriculture Rules eliminating at a stroke much of the Export Red Tape If you take this approach to its logical conclusion UK has Rolled over most if not all EU Trade Deals which are obviously compliant with EU Rules. There would be no impediment in striking further Trade Deals on these terms. Of course it might hinder a Mythical Trade Deal with US as it couldn't include Hormone Treated Meat etc More difficult but not impossible to negotiate Harmonisation of The City could lead to restoration of "Passporting" Obviously the first step to better cooperation with EU is by negotiation to fix the NI Protocol and implement the CTA we signed up to and not pursue a Bill through HoC which trashes the CTA and breaks International Law and could ultimately lead to a Trade War There are other ad hoc EU programs that UK could participate in as Associate Members such as Horizon, Erasmus etc which again is on mutual benefit is said pissing contest stopped
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 17, 2022 17:09:47 GMT
Brexit has been an absolute shocker, but as that guy on LBC said, there's no point gloating about it. I think it's time the UK just accepted that going it alone isn't going to work in todays globalised world and that sovereignty in whatever form Brexiteers thought it would be isn't as sovereign as they signed up for. Just re-join the EU. We'll go back with our tail between our legs and be a laughing stock for a few months but we can get through that. The important thing is to do what's best for the UK and it's population. Nice idea, but ideology will get in the way of what's best for the UK and it's population. That, and an inability to accept that it might not have been such a good idea, based on six years worth of evidence of what it's done to us as a country.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 17, 2022 17:14:19 GMT
It's pretty clear the only way this country saves itself is rejoining the EU. What a fucking shitshow. I’m afraid this country is beyond “saving itself”
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Post by foster on Oct 17, 2022 20:27:47 GMT
Brexit has been an absolute shocker, but as that guy on LBC said, there's no point gloating about it. I think it's time the UK just accepted that going it alone isn't going to work in todays globalised world and that sovereignty in whatever form Brexiteers thought it would be isn't as sovereign as they signed up for. Just re-join the EU. We'll go back with our tail between our legs and be a laughing stock for a few months but we can get through that. The important thing is to do what's best for the UK and it's population. I think James O'Brien may not have been outright gloating but he couldn't hold back on who visited this appalling vista upon us I'm as anti-Brexit as the next but even I would accept that rejoining EU now although I believe it would be carried by a Referendum, if that were the Test, would only prolong uncertainty and upheaval at this point in time The severity of the negative impact of Brexit was magnified by the type of Brexit chosen. It has turned Brexit into a Pissing Contest with the biggest loser (and there are 2) the one with the smallest appendage At a stroke if UK Government wished it could agree to Harmonisation on Manufacturing and Agriculture Rules eliminating at a stroke much of the Export Red Tape If you take this approach to its logical conclusion UK has Rolled over most if not all EU Trade Deals which are obviously compliant with EU Rules. There would be no impediment in striking further Trade Deals on these terms. Of course it might hinder a Mythical Trade Deal with US as it couldn't include Hormone Treated Meat etc More difficult but not impossible to negotiate Harmonisation of The City could lead to restoration of "Passporting" Obviously the first step to better cooperation with EU is by negotiation to fix the NI Protocol and implement the CTA we signed up to and not pursue a Bill through HoC which trashes the CTA and breaks International Law and could ultimately lead to a Trade War There are other ad hoc EU programs that UK could participate in as Associate Members such as Horizon, Erasmus etc which again is on mutual benefit is said pissing contest stopped I didn't say he was gloating. He said that gloating isn't going to get us anywhere. Which is what I agree with and which is something others do a lot on this thread. If you voted brexit then so what. It's done. Time to reflect on where we are moving forward.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 17, 2022 22:08:58 GMT
I think James O'Brien may not have been outright gloating but he couldn't hold back on who visited this appalling vista upon us I'm as anti-Brexit as the next but even I would accept that rejoining EU now although I believe it would be carried by a Referendum, if that were the Test, would only prolong uncertainty and upheaval at this point in time The severity of the negative impact of Brexit was magnified by the type of Brexit chosen. It has turned Brexit into a Pissing Contest with the biggest loser (and there are 2) the one with the smallest appendage At a stroke if UK Government wished it could agree to Harmonisation on Manufacturing and Agriculture Rules eliminating at a stroke much of the Export Red Tape If you take this approach to its logical conclusion UK has Rolled over most if not all EU Trade Deals which are obviously compliant with EU Rules. There would be no impediment in striking further Trade Deals on these terms. Of course it might hinder a Mythical Trade Deal with US as it couldn't include Hormone Treated Meat etc More difficult but not impossible to negotiate Harmonisation of The City could lead to restoration of "Passporting" Obviously the first step to better cooperation with EU is by negotiation to fix the NI Protocol and implement the CTA we signed up to and not pursue a Bill through HoC which trashes the CTA and breaks International Law and could ultimately lead to a Trade War There are other ad hoc EU programs that UK could participate in as Associate Members such as Horizon, Erasmus etc which again is on mutual benefit is said pissing contest stopped I didn't say he was gloating. He said that gloating isn't going to get us anywhere. Which is what I agree with and which is something others do a lot on this thread. If you voted brexit then so what. It's done. Time to reflect on where we are moving forward. I agreed O'Brien wasn't gloating, but he was angry I disagreed with your proposition of rejoining EU, at this time, as unworkable, even if I wished it never happened in the first place. What people say or not say on this obscure Football MB doesn't amount to a hill of Beanz My acknowledgement of continuation of Status Quo would suggest I believe its immaterial which way people voted. I made certain proposals of what might be done "moving forward" to alleviate the pain Do you disagree with those ideas or do you have alternative proposals, short of rejoining EU, or do you think rejoining is the only solution to what you acknowledge has been an "absolute shocker"?
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 18, 2022 6:19:38 GMT
A sensible brexit was possible. Britain decided to elect a right-wing tory government instead. But that was inevitable because brexit only happened because of about 20 millionaires on the right of the tory party, and because the leave vote was blind and wasn’t actually for anything to replace what we had. The brexiteers are in power as the tory party purged all remainers who refused to be a born again brexiteer. If we elected in a general election a party who had a manifesto that just said “not the current government” and “sunny uplands, more money, less foreigners” without saying how to get any of those, what would the outcome be? No mandate for anything tangible and chaos, which is precisely what we have seen in government since the brexit vote. Chaos. The brexit vote was very close. We should have left the EU and joined the EEA and customs union to reflect the narrow margins and then taken 5 years to reflect. Instead the government acted as if the majority voted for a hard brexit. And project fear has become reality (as per the daily telegraph).
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Post by skemstokie on Oct 18, 2022 16:20:47 GMT
Brexit has been an absolute shocker, but as that guy on LBC said, there's no point gloating about it. I think it's time the UK just accepted that going it alone isn't going to work in todays globalised world and that sovereignty in whatever form Brexiteers thought it would be isn't as sovereign as they signed up for. Just re-join the EU. We'll go back with our tail between our legs and be a laughing stock for a few months but we can get through that. The important thing is to do what's best for the UK and it's population. I think James O'Brien may not have been outright gloating but he couldn't hold back on who visited this appalling vista upon us I'm as anti-Brexit as the next but even I would accept that rejoining EU now although I believe it would be carried by a Referendum, if that were the Test, would only prolong uncertainty and upheaval at this point in time The severity of the negative impact of Brexit was magnified by the type of Brexit chosen. It has turned Brexit into a Pissing Contest with the biggest loser (and there are 2) the one with the smallest appendage At a stroke if UK Government wished it could agree to Harmonisation on Manufacturing and Agriculture Rules eliminating at a stroke much of the Export Red Tape If you take this approach to its logical conclusion UK has Rolled over most if not all EU Trade Deals which are obviously compliant with EU Rules. There would be no impediment in striking further Trade Deals on these terms. Of course it might hinder a Mythical Trade Deal with US as it couldn't include Hormone Treated Meat etc More difficult but not impossible to negotiate Harmonisation of The City could lead to restoration of "Passporting" Obviously the first step to better cooperation with EU is by negotiation to fix the NI Protocol and implement the CTA we signed up to and not pursue a Bill through HoC which trashes the CTA and breaks International Law and could ultimately lead to a Trade War There are other ad hoc EU programs that UK could participate in as Associate Members such as Horizon, Erasmus etc which again is on mutual benefit is said pissing contest stopped I agree with all the above but would still like a EU passport with ALL its benefits.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 18, 2022 16:31:29 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 18, 2022 16:42:22 GMT
This statement was attributed to Mark Carney in the FT a few days ago. I would be grateful if you could supply any supporting information/facts.
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