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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 20:41:44 GMT
I understand that....but its not my point. The link isn't the same as Red posted.. I'm not supporting Truss. The EU article link from the same source is equally an opinion. It's an opinion but it's not equally, if my explanation makes sense? Apologies, it is ( I think ) the same....I'll have to read it again.....I' m just trying to find out who wrote it. But, my point is different from yours ( I'm not particularly looking at Left/ Right media) I'm saying there has also been some reporting that the EU are facing similar problems as the UK....not a FACT , but opinion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 20:53:54 GMT
It's an opinion but it's not equally, if my explanation makes sense? Apologies, it is ( I think ) the same....I'll have to read it again.....I' m just trying to find out who wrote it. But, my point is different from yours ( I'm not particularly looking at Left/ Right media) I'm saying there has also been some reporting that the EU are facing similar problems as the UK....not a FACT , but opinion. Ben Marlow their chief City correspondent wrote it. Maybe it's me, I'll try one more time ... the opinion offered, that claims that the EU is facing similar problems, doesn't carry the same weight in a newspaper that you would EXPECT to have such an opinion, as an opinion criticising the Government in a newspaper that you wouldn't expect to publish such an opinion. Or to put it another way, if an article appeared in (say) the Guardian or the Independent offering an opinion that the EU were facing similar problems, then THAT article would carry much more weight than one offering the same opinion published in The Telegraph.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 21:06:42 GMT
Apologies, it is ( I think ) the same....I'll have to read it again.....I' m just trying to find out who wrote it. But, my point is different from yours ( I'm not particularly looking at Left/ Right media) I'm saying there has also been some reporting that the EU are facing similar problems as the UK....not a FACT , but opinion. Ben Marlow their chief City correspondent wrote it. Maybe it's me, I'll try one more time ... the opinion offered, that claims that the EU is facing similar problems, doesn't carry the same weight in a newspaper that you would EXPECT to have such an opinion, as an opinion criticising the Government in a newspaper that you wouldn't expect to publish such an opinion. Or to put it another way, if an article appeared in (say) the Guardian or the Independent offering an opinion that the EU were facing similar problems, then THAT article would carry much more weight than one offering the same opinion published in The Telegraph. Paul I do understand that/ the Political leanings of the media. In the past I have often quoted the Guardian/ Independent on issues which go against their normal stance. I'm this case I have not bothered to look, but no doubt uou are right. But thst isn't the point I was trying to make. Sometimes opinions transform are often repeated and then become accepted as facts....the point I was making ( and it isn't relevant to me that it was in the Telegraph ( which I realise was Reds and your point) ) was thst there is also a prediction by some that rhe EU will face similar challenges to the EU and some of Truss's problems were caused by the IMF, experts who have got it wrong, and the media in general, in my opinion. And to be clear I'm not trying to defend Truss, where all "this" is going( and I'm thinking of wider than the UK) I have not got a clue....I'm including Ukraine, the Environment, the Cost of Living crisis and Energy crisis in this....issues shared outside the UK. Like many people, I feel that there is a complete disconnect between me/ people and those who supposedly represent us.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 21:45:05 GMT
Apologies, it is ( I think ) the same....I'll have to read it again.....I' m just trying to find out who wrote it. But, my point is different from yours ( I'm not particularly looking at Left/ Right media) I'm saying there has also been some reporting that the EU are facing similar problems as the UK....not a FACT , but opinion. Ben Marlow their chief City correspondent wrote it. Maybe it's me, I'll try one more time ... the opinion offered, that claims that the EU is facing similar problems, doesn't carry the same weight in a newspaper that you would EXPECT to have such an opinion, as an opinion criticising the Government in a newspaper that you wouldn't expect to publish such an opinion. Or to put it another way, if an article appeared in (say) the Guardian or the Independent offering an opinion that the EU were facing similar problems, then THAT article would carry much more weight than one offering the same opinion published in The Telegraph. I would add Paul, Reds quote is.... The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. The actual quote is....... The Government may never admit it but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK’s standing among international investors. Not actually identical .
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Post by wannabee on Oct 1, 2022 22:06:30 GMT
In a volatile Market you could never rule anything out but the article is less than convincing I can see the hand of one of the Barclay Brothers requesting a counterbalancing Article to the one Red posted I thought it was a nice touch leading with a Photo of Christine Lagarde holding her hands to her head yet not one comment from or about her in the Article The Article itself listed every calamity that happened after Karzi's "mini budget" and reimagined it in a Parallel Universe happening to the Euro The only piece in the Article I would completely concur with is that ECB rates are going to rise. The next scheduled meeting of ECB is on 5th October in Cyprus where I fully expect ECB to raise the Base by 0.75 points to 2.00% hardly likely to cause a panic among Mortgage Holders, but painful nonetheless Of course, it's just an opinion .....any prediction of the future is really an opinion. The IMF , the experts, have said that they have got it wrong in their forecast following Truss' s mini budget, and I'm no fan of Truss.....the IMF and the media added yo the problem.....I'm just posting an opinion about the EU from the same source as Red, but he doesn't seem to have the link to it.....I was interested in who actually wrote it, the Telegraph seem to have removed it . BJR I'm replying here but I have read your subsequent exchanges with Paul so I'm taking them into account There is an essential difference between the two Articles The Red original is a critique of ACTUAL events which occurred and purports to establish why (For Instance Liz Truss has Blamed the War in Ukraine, Daniel Hannan blames Keir Starmer, Odious Odey blames Remainers in the City while pocketing beaucoup millions) The writer Ben Marlow gives his reasons for the Clusterfuck You decide which you prefer but the fact it has happened is not in doubt The second Article written by Tom Rees is an IMAGINING of what if all those nasty happenings also happened to the Euro. Anything is possible but the Fundamentals make it HIGHLY unlikely
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 22:10:19 GMT
Of course, it's just an opinion .....any prediction of the future is really an opinion. The IMF , the experts, have said that they have got it wrong in their forecast following Truss' s mini budget, and I'm no fan of Truss.....the IMF and the media added yo the problem.....I'm just posting an opinion about the EU from the same source as Red, but he doesn't seem to have the link to it.....I was interested in who actually wrote it, the Telegraph seem to have removed it . BJR I'm replying here but I have read your subsequent exchanges with Paul so I'm taking them into account There is an essential difference between the two Articles The Red original is a critique of ACTUAL events which occurred and purports to establish why (For Instance Liz Truss has Blamed the War in Ukraine, Daniel Hannan blames Keir Starmer, Odious Odey blames Remainers in the City while pocketing beaucoup millions) The writer Ben Marlow gives his reasons for the Clusterfuck You decide which you prefer but the fact it has happened is not in doubt The second Article written by Tom Rees is an IMAGINING of what if all those nasty happenings also happened to the Euro. Anything is possible but the Fundamentals make it HIGHLY unlikely Boom!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 22:12:53 GMT
Ben Marlow their chief City correspondent wrote it. Maybe it's me, I'll try one more time ... the opinion offered, that claims that the EU is facing similar problems, doesn't carry the same weight in a newspaper that you would EXPECT to have such an opinion, as an opinion criticising the Government in a newspaper that you wouldn't expect to publish such an opinion. Or to put it another way, if an article appeared in (say) the Guardian or the Independent offering an opinion that the EU were facing similar problems, then THAT article would carry much more weight than one offering the same opinion published in The Telegraph. I would add Paul, Reds quote is.... The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. The actual quote is....... The Government may never admit it but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK’s standing among international investors. Not actually identical . I'm not really following your point. Red has clearly copy and pasted from the Telegraph, there is no doubt that what he posted, did appear in that newspaper.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 22:18:33 GMT
I would add Paul, Reds quote is.... The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. The actual quote is....... The Government may never admit it but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK’s standing among international investors. Not actually identical . I'm not really following your point. Red has clearly copy and pasted from the Telegraph, there is no doubt that what he posted, did appear in that newspaper. I that case it has since been changed to the bit I've quoted.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 22:20:49 GMT
I'm not really following your point. Red has clearly copy and pasted from the Telegraph, there is no doubt that what he posted, did appear in that newspaper. I that case it has since been changed to the bit I've quoted. I would of thought that was obvious mate. The press regularly update/tinker with slightly their articles as the day progresses.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 22:29:15 GMT
I that case it has since been changed to the bit I've quoted. I would of thought that was obvious mate. The press regularly update/tinker with slightly their articles as the day progresses. That's true Paul....I don't get the slight changes in this case.....I'm not saying they didn't happen. For me, Truss's " mini budget" is a result of the government in power not Brexit....so for me the specific phrase implyinh a link isn't strictly speaking true....in other words a different government ( Labour?) post Brexit , could take a completely different path.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 22:47:16 GMT
I would of thought that was obvious mate. The press regularly update/tinker with slightly their articles as the day progresses. That's true Paul....I don't get the slight changes in this case.....I'm not saying they didn't happen. For me, Truss's " mini budget" is a result of the government in power not Brexit....so for me the specific phrase implyinh a link isn't strictly speaking true....in other words a different government ( Labour?) post Brexit , could take a completely different path. I don't think either the article or Red IS asserting that the budget is a result of Brexit. Rather that a combination of Brexit AND the budget have created a loss of faith in the markets. Indeed Red prefaced the article he quoted by saying ... "this was in today's Telegraph business section and is about the long term cost of Kamikwase's blunder AND the reality of post-Brexit life on the City." As for the slight changes, FWIW, I think the updated version reads much better.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 2, 2022 2:04:57 GMT
I'm not quite sure why all the mystery prevails or why it should be a point of contention. For comparison I have copied each of the "quotes" and highlighted the differences RED'S Quote The government may never admit [ nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. TELEGRAPH Quote The Government may never admit it but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK’s standing among international investors.
In Red's Quote It's fairly obvious to me at least Red couldn't resist having a dig at some of the posters on this thread, but he didn't try to conceal it by using parentheses to show those words were his not part of the original Telegraph Quote
In the actual Telegraph Quote Red simply didn't copy the last three words which ironically are in fact the most damning as it explains exactly in who's eyes the UK's standing has been damaged
I think being too pedantic overlooks the essential issue
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 2, 2022 3:29:36 GMT
Kamikwasi is a great nickname.
Had a chat with a Lyft driver yesterday who says he's big into finance and is a successful businessman and accountant.
He didn't think Brexit or Kwarteng had anything to do with it, he just thought the American dollar is really strong because America is great. Then again he didn't know who Kwarteng is or that he's decided to YOLO the economy.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 2, 2022 8:41:06 GMT
No I meant Gisela Stuart. Couldn't really care less where my passport's made as long as it's valid, and I've had no problems getting through numerous airports- the only small delays I've experienced are due to COVID paperwork checks and those infernal passport scanners (I always seem to pick the ropey one). Sorry mate 🙂 PS I mentioned Johnny Foreigner as your comment about apologising for using a German word seem to allude that I was xenophobic. Do try to keep up. You obviously don't do irony of course I knew you meant Gisela, but my comment re Farage stands She seems a complex individual with a propensity to change her mind constantly She was born a German Citizen and became a British one. She married a Mr Stuart and when she divorced him and married a Mr Scott yet she remained Stuart. She was a Labour MP and when she stepped down urged voters to vote Conservative and now sits in HoL as an Independent Strange indeed. You're not intlegent enough to reinterpret the meaning of what I write so don't bother And by the way I could never envisage a scenario where I I would be your mate or pal, pal. 1. If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, please try and make sure you spell 'intelligent' correctly. No flimsy spellchecker excuses here! 2. Right back at you with the mate thing, I'd rather inject tapeworms into my eyelids than class a nimrod like yourself as a friend in the real world. By calling you (and your other accounts,,,) mate/pal etc, I'm being patronising, I'm not reaching out a hand of friendship. I thought you were a master of irony and interpretation? (Plus I know that you and your kind like to sit in echo chambers and only associate yourselves with people of a similar delusional mindset) Typical progressive- get shown up in a discussion and you resort to insults about intelligence. It's as predictable as night following day. Excellent Wikipedia skills with Gisela Stuart though. At least you can navigate a search engine. Mate 🙂
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Post by wannabee on Oct 2, 2022 10:16:57 GMT
You obviously don't do irony of course I knew you meant Gisela, but my comment re Farage stands She seems a complex individual with a propensity to change her mind constantly She was born a German Citizen and became a British one. She married a Mr Stuart and when she divorced him and married a Mr Scott yet she remained Stuart. She was a Labour MP and when she stepped down urged voters to vote Conservative and now sits in HoL as an Independent Strange indeed. You're not intlegent enough to reinterpret the meaning of what I write so don't bother And by the way I could never envisage a scenario where I I would be your mate or pal, pal. 1. If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, please try and make sure you spell 'intelligent' correctly. No flimsy spellchecker excuses here! 2. Right back at you with the mate thing, I'd rather inject tapeworms into my eyelids than class a nimrod like yourself as a friend in the real world. By calling you (and your other accounts,,,) mate/pal etc, I'm being patronising, I'm not reaching out a hand of friendship. I thought you were a master of irony and interpretation? (Plus I know that you and your kind like to sit in echo chambers and only associate yourselves with people of a similar delusional mindset) Typical progressive- get shown up in a discussion and you resort to insults about intelligence. It's as predictable as night following day. Excellent Wikipedia skills with Gisela Stuart though. At least you can navigate a search engine. Mate 🙂 What is obvious doesn't need to be stated. I suggest you have a lie-down with a nice cup of tea and a biscuit You'll feel better later.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 2, 2022 12:48:31 GMT
1. If you're going to insult someone's intelligence, please try and make sure you spell 'intelligent' correctly. No flimsy spellchecker excuses here! 2. Right back at you with the mate thing, I'd rather inject tapeworms into my eyelids than class a nimrod like yourself as a friend in the real world. By calling you (and your other accounts,,,) mate/pal etc, I'm being patronising, I'm not reaching out a hand of friendship. I thought you were a master of irony and interpretation? (Plus I know that you and your kind like to sit in echo chambers and only associate yourselves with people of a similar delusional mindset) Typical progressive- get shown up in a discussion and you resort to insults about intelligence. It's as predictable as night following day. Excellent Wikipedia skills with Gisela Stuart though. At least you can navigate a search engine. Mate 🙂 What is obvious doesn't need to be stated. I suggest you have a lie-down with a nice cup of tea and a biscuit You'll feel better later. Top notch riposte, that. I think we'll say I won this one. Mate 🙂
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Post by wannabee on Oct 2, 2022 14:32:36 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 2, 2022 19:54:25 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 2, 2022 21:20:39 GMT
Potentially it's a shift in policy, but I'd be cautious. A number of things are aligning together First Lizzy has decided to attend Macron''s Vanity Project the Inaugural meeting of European Political Community this week in Prague. Cleverly talked with Sefcovic by phone on Friday for the first time since UK suspended talks on the NI Protocol last February. and agreed to reopen talks. Lizzy obviously got rebuffed in London then New York by Biden to get her shit sorted. As NI Parliament is suspended because DUP refuse to participate by end of October NI Secretary is obliged to call new Elections At best DUP may hold their second place position to Sinn Fein but more likelly lose seats. Baker can go on record with his Mea Culpa"s but as he's behind the Minister it can easily be denied if expedient Finally there isn't enough Bandwidth in Government to fight Battles on all fronts they have enough problems to sort out the Economy which they have contributed to by their actions I hope it's a realisation that Jaw-Jaw is better than War-War with EU but I won't hold my breath yet.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 3, 2022 6:56:53 GMT
Potentially it's a shift in policy, but I'd be cautious. A number of things are aligning together First Lizzy has decided to attend Macron''s Vanity Project the Inaugural meeting of European Political Community this week in Prague. Cleverly talked with Sefcovic by phone on Friday for the first time since UK suspended talks on the NI Protocol last February. and agreed to reopen talks. Lizzy obviously got rebuffed in London then New York by Biden to get her shit sorted. As NI Parliament is suspended because DUP refuse to participate by end of October NI Secretary is obliged to call new Elections At best DUP may hold their second place position to Sinn Fein but more likelly lose seats. Baker can go on record with his Mea Culpa"s but as he's behind the Minister it can easily be denied if expedient Finally there isn't enough Bandwidth in Government to fight Battles on all fronts they have enough problems to sort out the Economy which they have contributed to by their actions I hope it's a realisation that Jaw-Jaw is better than War-War with EU but I won't hold my breath yet. Yes, maybe it's a positive move, an acknowledgement of Brexit realities finally which likewise wouldn't go amiss on here! Although, given how much shit she's in already, you can imagine the eurosceptics sharpening their knives in response.
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 3, 2022 8:19:43 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 3, 2022 10:08:53 GMT
These Brexit idiots are all Soundbite and Spin and no Substance One of the Cockamamie ideas they peddled before Brexit was that it would reduce paperwork It didn't, the reality is that it has increased paperwork to Export to EU due to Non Tarrif Barriers It may convince a Gullible Public, but SME's themselves know better Fully One Third of them have stopped Exporting to EU altogether as they are unable to absorb the additional costs of new Export Regulations The number of UK SME's Exporting to EU reduced from 27,321 in 2020 to 18,357 in 2021 the First Year of New Regulations Rees-Mogg and his sycophants need to understand that they have no influence over what other Countries Regulations are www.google.com/amp/s/www.cityam.com/brexit-onslaught-deepens-as-a-third-of-all-uk-firms-exporting-to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/%3famp=1
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 3, 2022 14:33:49 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 3, 2022 15:55:11 GMT
Just to further debunk Rees-Mogg's drive to remove EU Bureaucracy Depending on which size of the Brexit Debate you are on. Some people wil talk about the Gross Contributions to EU. Some will talk about Net Contributions after Financial Supports for Regional UK Projects etc. Very few talk about the increase in Civil Servants to carry out functions previously performed by EU or not previously required while in EU The most recent Official numbers I could find was were from 2020 (I believe they were dropped to save embarrassment) which showed the number of Civil Servants were employed due to Brexit was 25,000 A back of the envelope calculation could be 25,000 x £40,000 (London Centric Jobs) = £1B just on Salary Costs www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/publication/whitehall-monitor-2020/civil-serviceThere are currently around 25,000 civil servants working on Brexit; this is more than the number in the nine smallest Whitehall departments combined. The total number of staff working on Brexit has more than tripled since the summer of 2018. Departments have been loaning each other staff, which means Brexit has had an impact even on parts of government not directly affected by it.
much of the increase is in departments most affected by Brexit, such as the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), the Department for International Trade (DIT) and the Cabinet Office.
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Post by toppercorner on Oct 3, 2022 17:39:47 GMT
This is Farage's neck of the woods. I'm sure he'll be over to help as soon as he's put his fag out and drank his beer, after all, he did promise them things would be better.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 3, 2022 20:05:43 GMT
This is Farage's neck of the woods. I'm sure he'll be over to help as soon as he's put his fag out and drank his beer, after all, he did promise them things would be better. Nige can bung 'em a few quid, surely. Bound to have made a tidy profit on the pound fiasco last week.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 4, 2022 13:21:29 GMT
It seems U-Turns are a very popular with the Liz Truss Administration The ELM package to replace EU CAP (much Vaunted by DEFRA and Mr Coke) and (much critised by HoC PAC and HoL STC) has not aged well and is being scrapped before it even started. I'm not saying the decision is wrong but it's yet another example of Brexiteers Hubris believing, incorrectly, that they know better www.google.com/amp/s/www.edie.net/reports-defra-set-to-scrap-plans-to-pay-farmers-for-nature-restoration-and-creation/%3famp=trueIt is being reported that the schemes, in their current form, have been “put on pause” as the Department considers an area-based payout system instead. This would be closer to the EU’s CAP, once again encouraging farmers to use a lot of land and maximise production.
It has been pointed out that many people have already changed their business plans to account for the [ELM] proposals. Ha ha what Jokers
The Wildlife Trusts’ chief executive Craig Bennett said: “If now, this government is going back to area-based payments, then it will have dumped the one silver lining around Brexit that perhaps might have been good for the environment. It seems there is an all-out attack on the environment under Liz Truss’s government"
To compound the irony the above comparisons are to old CAP not Re-CAP set to commence on 1st January 2023 which is much more geared towards Small Farmers, Sustainability and the Environment The 10 Key objectives are
to ensure a fair income for farmers; to increase competitiveness; to improve the position of farmers in the food chain; climate change action; environmental care; to preserve landscapes and biodiversity; to support generational renewal; vibrant rural areas; to protect food and health quality; fostering knowledge and innovation
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Post by foster on Oct 4, 2022 13:46:22 GMT
It seems U-Turns are a very popular with the Liz Truss Administration
How's that budget working out Liz?
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 4, 2022 23:02:11 GMT
It seems U-Turns are a very popular with the Liz Truss Administration The ELM package to replace EU CAP (much Vaunted by DEFRA and Mr Coke) and (much critised by HoC PAC and HoL STC) has not aged well and is being scrapped before it even started. I'm not saying the decision is wrong but it's yet another example of Brexiteers Hubris believing, incorrectly, that they know better www.google.com/amp/s/www.edie.net/reports-defra-set-to-scrap-plans-to-pay-farmers-for-nature-restoration-and-creation/%3famp=trueIt is being reported that the schemes, in their current form, have been “put on pause” as the Department considers an area-based payout system instead. This would be closer to the EU’s CAP, once again encouraging farmers to use a lot of land and maximise production.
It has been pointed out that many people have already changed their business plans to account for the [ELM] proposals. Ha ha what Jokers
The Wildlife Trusts’ chief executive Craig Bennett said: “If now, this government is going back to area-based payments, then it will have dumped the one silver lining around Brexit that perhaps might have been good for the environment. It seems there is an all-out attack on the environment under Liz Truss’s government"
To compound the irony the above comparisons are to old CAP not Re-CAP set to commence on 1st January 2023 which is much more geared towards Small Farmers, Sustainability and the Environment The 10 Key objectives are
to ensure a fair income for farmers; to increase competitiveness; to improve the position of farmers in the food chain; climate change action; environmental care; to preserve landscapes and biodiversity; to support generational renewal; vibrant rural areas; to protect food and health quality; fostering knowledge and innovation
I think it is a great shame that the new Tory government is supposedly planning to water down the Agriculture Act and reverse the proposed environmental improvements. I imagine this is in part due to the war in Ukraine leading to a world shortage of food, escalation of the cost of food, and a consequential need to maximise food output. It is a consequence of restoring sovereignty that we are subject to the policies of the UK government, whether we agree or disagree, whether it is good or bad in our opinion, and not subject to government from Brussels. I recognise that some would prefer to be ruled by Brussels. The UK agriculture policy has been criticised for not going far enough by environmentalists and unworkable by politicians. Well the former would say that wouldn't they (?), and the latter represent vested interests. There seems little point of discussing the present UK government policy further, at least until we get another government or U turn. As for the revised CAP, you seem to be in love with it (!), contrary to most other organizations; I quote: WWF have said "The deal ... shatters any hopes of significantly increasing the environmental aspirations of the Common Agricultural Policy ..." Ref . 1. ClientEarth have said " Unfortunately, the agreement struck by the co-legislators falls short of protecting the environment and tackle the climate crisis 2 . The governance framework of the CAP political compromise fails to guarantee that agricultural subsidies will significantly contribute to achieving the European Green Deal (EGD). This confirms that agriculture unacceptably continues to benefit from a ‘special status’ compared to other EU laws and policies." BirdLife have stated " The overwhelming majority of Common Agricultural Policy strategic plans delivered by Member States to the European Commission fail to adequately address the urgent crises of biodiversity loss and climate change. " Ref.2 Friends of the Earth Europe have said "It fails to address the loss of small- and medium-sized farmers " Ref.3. plantbasednews.org are a lot stronger in their condemnation and quote Greenpeace saying the new legislation " would prohibit national governments from introducing higher environmental standards that farmers in their country would have to meet to get public subsidies’ and " the regressive proposals would set maximum national spending limits on some environmental programs" and will ‘scale down current requirements to leave space for nature on land farmed or to protect carbon-rich peatlands and grasslands’. Ref.4. Pretty damning stuff. Environmental groups generally have labelled the new CAP as " green-washing". The Greens and the European Free Alliance in the European Parliament opposed the legislation, describing it as " unfair, dangerous for our farming system and farmers and bad for the climate, biodiversity and animal welfare ". One Green MEP said it is " inadequate to fight the climate and biodiversity crisis and the loss of small farmers all over Europe”.“This is not a reform, or even a stepping stone for a reform. It is, indeed, a mess,” Christine Chemnitz, head of international agricultural policy at the Heinrich Böll Foundation, has described the policy change “a desperately missed opportunity” to transform the EU’s agricultural production, and "The EU’s highly industrialised and intensive model has harmful knock on effects for developing countries, ...... For example, EU livestock consume large amounts of soy imported from deforested areas of Latin America, while EU surplus milk has been dumped on the West African market, undercutting local farmers." Ref. 5. Well little has changed there, the EU has been guilty in the past of dumping excess Italian subsidised tomato production in West Africa damaging local farmers. Reference 6 below contains a link to a report by a group of environmental activists. In your post above you list the 10 key objectives of the new CAP. The report reviews the most important features of the new CAP and assesses whether the content and governance of this new policy match up to 10 Tests for a Green Deal-compatible EU Farm Policy. With 8 tests ranking red and 2 ranking orange, the analysis is overwhelmingly negative.
My own view of the revised CAP is different and does not seem to have been picked up elsewhere; so here goes: One of the issues with the CAP in the past has been misappropriation of funds, which have found their way into the coffers of East European oligarchs in the past and the revenue of food progressing companies and not where it was intended. The Commission have addressed this issue by introducing a far more prescriptive and accountable system, similar to the Covid recovery programme Next Generation EU. Each EU nation is required to submit a National Strategic Plan to the unelected EU Commission, to be submitted to the Commission by 1st January 2022. Belgium, Bulgaria, Germany, Romania, Slovakia. The Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania and Luxembourg all missed the deadline. The report I referred to above stated last February " The assessment scored 18 out of the 23 strategic plans submitted to date as either poor or very poor across the dimensions explored, which covered: space for nature, protection of grasslands, peatlands and wetlands, money for biodiversity protection and climate action, harmful subsidies, and the involvement of environmental NGOs." (Ref. 7) IFOAM Organics Europe have stated that the first 19 plans submitted are not ambitious enough to properly support organic farming and reach the 25% target of land under organic production in Europe by 2030. The unelected officers of the Commission had 6 months to assess and approve the plan, during which the Commission send observation letters to the member nations pointing out things they may be unhappy with or are unsatisfactory. It is down to the individual nations to implement their plan; it is not clear to me who ensures this is done in compliance. To say the Commissions comments on the plans submitted are copious would be the understatement of the year. I noticed France had nearly 200 comments on its submission. I have been accused on the MB of being unduly critical of France and Germany, so at random here is a comment (out of nearly 300) in the letter to the Dutch : . " The Commission notes, in particular, a lack of specific ambition in the Plan and considers that what is proposed does not go far enough to address the environmental, biodiversity and climate challenges faced by the Netherlands and that its coherence with, and contribution to, other objectives of EU environmental legislation ..." (Ref. 8) I have made repeated reference to unelected Eurocrats making decisions on member countries plans. This is undemocratic. In the UK the law is administered by civil servants such as DEFRA who are accountable to a minister (usually elected, but possibly a Lord) who in turn is accountable to parliament. We have seen all too often in recent years what happens to PMs and other politicians if they fall down on the job. There is no such "control" of Eurocrats who slavishly work towards ever closer European union. Need I say any more on the new EU CAP? This post is in response to a statement that " The ELM package to replace EU CAP .... is being scrapped". A statement that is denied by DEFRA (Ref. 9) Surprise! Surprise! The European Commission has agreed to delay new environmental rules of the new CAP till 2024 to increase the EU's grain production and plug the trade gap left by the war in Ukraine (Ref. 10 ) Seems the UK is not the only one who does U turns. References: 1. www.wwf.eu/?3888816/EU-farm-ministers-sabotage-attempts-to-strengthen-environmental-elements-of-new-CAP2. www.birdlife.org/news/2022/02/21/cap-national-strategic-plans-will-fail-to-deliver-on-eu-green-deal-environmental-and-climate-objectives/3. friendsoftheearth.eu/press-release/cap-fails-small-farmers-and-the-environment-yet-again/4. plantbasednews.org/culture/european-parliament-blasted-regressive-cap-reforms/5. www.climatechangenews.com/2021/11/23/eus-reformed-agricultural-policy-fails-climate-goals-say-green-groups/6. www.greenpeace.org/eu-unit/issues/nature-food/45754/does-the-new-eu-farm-policy-measure-up/7. eeb.org/cap-national-strategic-plans-will-fail-to-deliver-on-european-green-deal-environmental-and-climate-objectives-ngo-assessment-reveals/8. agriculture.ec.europa.eu/cap-my-country/cap-strategic-plans/observation-letters_en9. www.fwi.co.uk/business/business-management/agricultural-transition/defra-rejects-claims-its-elm-scheme-could-be-axed10. ihsmarkit.com/research-analysis/eu-commission-delays-new-cap-environmental-rules-to-boost-eu-g.html
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Post by wannabee on Oct 5, 2022 10:31:12 GMT
A reasonable attempt to do a Snow Job. Your post looks authoritive but lacks credibility The ELM scheme was already being watered down under the Johnson administration (as I pointed out to you before) The 3 strands of the scheme were to have equal share of the £2.4B funding (under CAP it was £3.5B) Yet in June the Environmental element was cut from £800M to £50M per year. Bwahahaha Fine Words are OK but without funding nothing can get done www.endsreport.com/article/1789504/utter-disgrace-funding-slashed-elms-rewilding-projects-say-reportsYour reliance on DEFRA reporting honestly I fear is misplaced when has a Government Department ever done so especially under this Tory Regime I prefer to trust BBC and Observer to have fully sourced its reporting The reality is that the Farming Lobby have won over the Environmental Lobby (probably with CAP as well as ELMS What frightened this Government was the by-election loss of the Porn Watchers seat and Food Security focused by events in Ukraine You do know that each Country within EU has its own Agriculture/Environmental Plan Right? Not understanding your Sovereignty again Each Countries Plan fits into the overall EU objective. It's called a spirit of Mutual Cooperation to Achieve Common Goals. Perhaps Liz may see it in action when she attends the Inaugural EU Organised European Political Community Meeting tomorrow in Prague There are 3 items on the Agenda Ukraine, Energy and The Economic Situation. I'm sure she will at least be relieved to be in Prague not Birmingham I could quote literally dozens of Articles criticising ELMS, not the objectives but the implementation "Rich gifts wax poor when givers prove unkind"
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