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Post by 4372 on Sept 26, 2022 11:48:18 GMT
The sovereignty argument for leaving the EU is not looking very good today.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 26, 2022 16:58:21 GMT
The sovereignty argument for leaving the EU is not looking very good today. The loss of Sovereignty within EU was always a Chimera
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Post by 4372 on Sept 28, 2022 13:25:43 GMT
This thread needs to be up here right now, not allowed to drift into nowhere pages.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 28, 2022 16:10:18 GMT
This thread needs to be up here right now, not allowed to drift into nowhere pages. Austerity, then Brexit followed by the Johnson Interlude of constant lying corruption and sex scandals and now an Economically Incompetent Regime which has Crashed the Economy for Idealogical reasons is a Panoply of Tory Failure for the last 12 years and are inextricably mixed. Even in the face of this unprecedented level of sustained incompetence Labour will still have to overcome the complicit Right Wing Press and their Attack Dogs printing absolute garbage for the masses
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Post by wannabee on Sept 29, 2022 2:32:50 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2022 6:45:23 GMT
Our economy is 0.2% smaller than pre pandemic levels. We still have not recovered to pre pandemic levels when most advanced economies had very quickly after. This is despite us being out of lockdown before anyone.
The brexit effect.
Also we have the arch brexiteers in control right now. That’s going well.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 30, 2022 6:51:23 GMT
Our economy is 0.2% smaller than pre pandemic levels. We still have not recovered to pre pandemic levels when most advanced economies had very quickly after. This is despite us being out of lockdown before anyone. The brexit effect. Also we have the arch brexiteers in control right now. That’s going well. Truss was a Remainer. That's the problem, you see. If she really understood Brexit, none of the chaos of the last week would've happened....are the conversations currently circulating in the Tory Party.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 30, 2022 6:55:04 GMT
Our economy is 0.2% smaller than pre pandemic levels. We still have not recovered to pre pandemic levels when most advanced economies had very quickly after. This is despite us being out of lockdown before anyone. The brexit effect. Also we have the arch brexiteers in control right now. That’s going well. Truss was a Remainer. That's the problem, you see. If she really understood Brexit, none of the chaos of the last week would've happened....are the conversations currently circulating in the Tory Party. Oh! A bit the leader of the leave campaign Boris Johnson. He didn’t understand brexit either I guess. What lunatic would? Do we have to wait until rapey Mark François is PM before seeing the real brexit benefits!?
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Post by maxplonk on Sept 30, 2022 7:22:44 GMT
This thread needs to be up here right now, not allowed to drift into nowhere pages. Attachment Deleted
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Post by Davef on Sept 30, 2022 14:28:10 GMT
Well isn't that nice? Tim Martin may not be everybody's cup of tea and he may be on dodgy ground complaining about the difficulties he faces but wanting his business to fail impacts on the lives of many people, from employees of Wetherspoons to their suppliers and those who rely on the chain to enjoy an affordable social life.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 30, 2022 16:26:27 GMT
People losing their jobs, top bantz. Still, let's not let it get in the way of a bit of point scoring!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 30, 2022 17:03:30 GMT
People losing their jobs, top bantz. Still, let's not let it get in the way of a bit of point scoring! Meanwhile back in 2018. The Brexit-supporting chairman of J D Wetherspoon is to rise from his sick bed to campaign for a "no deal" withdrawal from the EU. Tim Martin, who has been taking time out from the office in recent weeks following emergency surgery to remove his appendix, said he would be visiting more than 100 of the pub chain's sites over the next two months. The businessman said he wanted to speak to customers about the "huge economic advantages" of a hard Brexit. He became a rare voice in the business community to speak out against Theresa May's draft withdrawal agreement with Brussels, describing the terms as an "appalling deal" that would see the UK "trapped in an undemocratic and financially inefficient system". Not aged well really has it. Sad folk are losing their jobs - and sadder that its not only his company - but he's one of the dickheads largely responsible.
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Post by wannabee on Sept 30, 2022 17:09:16 GMT
People losing their jobs, top bantz. Still, let's not let it get in the way of a bit of point scoring! Replying to you and Davef who have made the same point I doubt people are going to drink any less Beer, provided they can afford it under this shitshow of a Government, just not at one of Tim Martins establishments You do know these Pubs are being sold as a going concern right? In a magnanimous gesture in April this year Weatherspoons gave all its staff a 20P an hour increase or about 2% which brings them to about £10 an hour www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10708535/amp/Wetherspoons-staff-receive-20p-hour-pay-rise-taking-hourly-wage-roles-10.htmlI doubt many staff if any will be discommoded by this downturn in Mr Martins fortunes and will be simply absorbed by new ownership or easily find a new job on at least these pay rates If you don't find it Hypocritical of Mr Martin to go crying in his beer and calling for a relaxation of Free Movement from EU barely six months after it began when he was one of the most High Profile Business People Trumpeting for Brexit then you don't know the meaning of Schadenfreude apologies for using a German word
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 1, 2022 12:53:23 GMT
Often a more sensible and balanced read than the main body of the paper, this was in today's Telegraph business section and is about the long term cost of Kamikwase's blunder and the reality of post-Brexit life on the City:
The pound has rallied, the panic in the bond markets has receded and the FTSE index has regained a modicum of ground. The reaction to Kwarteng's mini-budget may have been somewhat overblown but the decision to bring in the OBR from the cold is sensible. It has helped restore some calm, which was undoubtedly needed after a week of utter chaos. Yet some of the fallout will be lasting. The UK came close to another financial crisis that could have wiped out the retirement savings of millions. The BoE's intervention was critical but may only be a temporary reprieve, and a full investigation into what happened, and whether it could again, is urgently needed. Elsewhere, the mortgage market, where a staggering 40pc of products have vanished as a result of the mini-budget, is unlikely to recover sufficiently to avoid a housing crash. At some point, Kwarteng must also take a step back and assess the damage he has inflicted on the financial sector. For a govt keen to restore some of the City's allure, the signs are not encouraging. At one stage, UK markets had lost as much as £500bn on Liz Truss's watch, a gift to those who have long sought to steal a march on London in the rankings of the world's financial centres, and a blow to the capital's own ongoing attempts to challenge New York and Singapore for dominance. Some of this week's capital outflow will have been reversed but only some - confidence in UK assets has taken a hammering, heightening fears about the square mile's decline. Central to London's standing is its reputation as a place for international investors and companies to raise capital. But the UK stock market is shrinking quickly. UK equity outflows are heading for a record $18bn this year, according to data from the Bank of America. Meanwhile UK companies including Stagecoach, Biffa and Ted Baker, with a total value of over £40bn, have been taken private or disappeared to overseas buyers this year, further hollowing out an already shrinking stock market. Compounding this trend is the fact that just £1.2bn has been raised via initial public offerings in London in 2022, according to Bloomberg. That is just 14pc of the European total, the lowest since 2010. This has rapidly narrowed the gap between London and its nearest rivals. With the FTSE 100 taking an 8pc hit since January and the FTSE 250 tumbling 29pc, the combined market capitalisation of companies with a main UK quote has shrunk to within relative touching distance of the chief challenger, Paris. With a combined value of $2.5tn, the gap between the pair is now $156bn, close to a record low. This will be music to Emmanuel Macron's ears. Of all Europe's leaders it is France's president who would most love to steal London's crown as Europe's pre-eminent equity market. Macron has made little attempt to hide his true intentions, memorably hosting a lavish dinner at the palace of Versailles after the Brexit referendum for 140 bosses of multinationals, including Goldman Sachs and Facebook, where he urged them to choose France. Of course it doesn't take much to spark a revival. The sort of activity that determines the City's fortunes ebbs and flows according to a multitude of external factors. Inbound deals can quickly reverse, floats can pick up again and capital can easily flood back into equities. Essentially, it boils down to market sentiment, but that's the problem. The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. And though Britain's financial services industry has so far proven sufficiently resilient to withstand the efforts of Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam to topple it, the concern will be that the recent rout in the bond markets and sterling proves decisive. The signs are not great. Dealmakers predict a fresh influx of overseas bids in response to the weak pound. Despite a recovery from recent record lows, sterling is 18pc down against the dollar since the start of the year, while the pipeline for fresh share sales is weak. Ministers must respond assertively. Lord Hill's proposed changes to capital markets are welcome but little more than tinkering at the edges. Kwarteng has promised to go much further with a radical package of tax cuts and de-regulation reforms dubbed Big Bang 2 [Oh God]. The public will lose little sleep over the fate of bankers and insurance brokers but the financial services industry is much broader, employing 1.3m people and the City generates £200bn a year in output, while contributing £100bn in tax revenues. The Chancellor can't afford to drop the ball again.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 1, 2022 14:36:26 GMT
People losing their jobs, top bantz. Still, let's not let it get in the way of a bit of point scoring! Replying to you and Davef who have made the same point I doubt people are going to drink any less Beer, provided they can afford it under this shitshow of a Government, just not at one of Tim Martins establishments You do know these Pubs are being sold as a going concern right? In a magnanimous gesture in April this year Weatherspoons gave all its staff a 20P an hour increase or about 2% which brings them to about £10 an hour www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10708535/amp/Wetherspoons-staff-receive-20p-hour-pay-rise-taking-hourly-wage-roles-10.htmlI doubt many staff if any will be discommoded by this downturn in Mr Martins fortunes and will be simply absorbed by new ownership or easily find a new job on at least these pay rates If you don't find it Hypocritical of Mr Martin to go crying in his beer and calling for a relaxation of Free Movement from EU barely six months after it began when he was one of the most High Profile Business People Trumpeting for Brexit then you don't know the meaning of Schadenfreude apologies for using a German word I'm fully aware of what schadenfreude is, I'm also extensively travelled throughout the EU and beyond and don't hate Johnny Foreigner pal. It's just a shame you can't spell 'Wetherspoon' correctly after all that 😀 On the subject of Germans, the chair of Vote Leave was one don't forget.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 1, 2022 14:40:29 GMT
Excellent Article Red I didn't quote it due to its length. Its almost as long as one of Mr Coke's quarterly reviews
There are a number of takeaways not least a rebuke to Liz and Karzi to get their shit together
The BoE intervention is only temporary and they may be forced to act again mid-October
If they do it will be in a vacuum as Karzi is refusing to issue OBR report until 23 November even though he will receive it on Friday this week
If Housing values tumble the Blue Rinsers will have the Tories out Tout de suite
And obviously what any sane commentator knows is that Brexit has severely damaged the UK Economy and it is now being stated openly in Right Wing Brexit Supporting Broadsheet Media as FACT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 1, 2022 15:02:58 GMT
Replying to you and Davef who have made the same point I doubt people are going to drink any less Beer, provided they can afford it under this shitshow of a Government, just not at one of Tim Martins establishments You do know these Pubs are being sold as a going concern right? In a magnanimous gesture in April this year Weatherspoons gave all its staff a 20P an hour increase or about 2% which brings them to about £10 an hour www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10708535/amp/Wetherspoons-staff-receive-20p-hour-pay-rise-taking-hourly-wage-roles-10.htmlI doubt many staff if any will be discommoded by this downturn in Mr Martins fortunes and will be simply absorbed by new ownership or easily find a new job on at least these pay rates If you don't find it Hypocritical of Mr Martin to go crying in his beer and calling for a relaxation of Free Movement from EU barely six months after it began when he was one of the most High Profile Business People Trumpeting for Brexit then you don't know the meaning of Schadenfreude apologies for using a German word I'm fully aware of what schadenfreude is, I'm also extensively travelled throughout the EU and beyond and don't hate Johnny Foreigner pal. It's just a shame you can't spell 'Wetherspoon' correctly after all that 😀 On the subject of Germans, the chair of Vote Leave was one don't forget. I have given my spellchecker a good kicking on your behalf Not only did I not spell Wetherspoons correctly I most certainly would not drink in one of their establishments I wasn't talking about Johnny or any other Foreigner I was talking about the Fraud Tim Martin I hope you are enjoying your French Designed, Polish Produced Blue Passport and you are not being too inconvenienced at Customs in your extensive travels around Europe Do you mean that Farage Chap, I understand he has a German Passport
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 15:08:03 GMT
Often a more sensible and balanced read than the main body of the paper, this was in today's Telegraph business section and is about the long term cost of Kamikwase's blunder and the reality of post-Brexit life on the City: The pound has rallied, the panic in the bond markets has receded and the FTSE index has regained a modicum of ground. The reaction to Kwarteng's mini-budget may have been somewhat overblown but the decision to bring in the OBR from the cold is sensible. It has helped restore some calm, which was undoubtedly needed after a week of utter chaos. Yet some of the fallout will be lasting. The UK came close to another financial crisis that could have wiped out the retirement savings of millions. The BoE's intervention was critical but may only be a temporary reprieve, and a full investigation into what happened, and whether it could again, is urgently needed. Elsewhere, the mortgage market, where a staggering 40pc of products have vanished as a result of the mini-budget, is unlikely to recover sufficiently to avoid a housing crash. At some point, Kwarteng must also take a step back and assess the damage he has inflicted on the financial sector. For a govt keen to restore some of the City's allure, the signs are not encouraging. At one stage, UK markets had lost as much as £500bn on Liz Truss's watch, a gift to those who have long sought to steal a march on London in the rankings of the world's financial centres, and a blow to the capital's own ongoing attempts to challenge New York and Singapore for dominance. Some of this week's capital outflow will have been reversed but only some - confidence in UK assets has taken a hammering, heightening fears about the square mile's decline. Central to London's standing is its reputation as a place for international investors and companies to raise capital. But the UK stock market is shrinking quickly. UK equity outflows are heading for a record $18bn this year, according to data from the Bank of America. Meanwhile UK companies including Stagecoach, Biffa and Ted Baker, with a total value of over £40bn, have been taken private or disappeared to overseas buyers this year, further hollowing out an already shrinking stock market. Compounding this trend is the fact that just £1.2bn has been raised via initial public offerings in London in 2022, according to Bloomberg. That is just 14pc of the European total, the lowest since 2010. This has rapidly narrowed the gap between London and its nearest rivals. With the FTSE 100 taking an 8pc hit since January and the FTSE 250 tumbling 29pc, the combined market capitalisation of companies with a main UK quote has shrunk to within relative touching distance of the chief challenger, Paris. With a combined value of $2.5tn, the gap between the pair is now $156bn, close to a record low. This will be music to Emmanuel Macron's ears. Of all Europe's leaders it is France's president who would most love to steal London's crown as Europe's pre-eminent equity market. Macron has made little attempt to hide his true intentions, memorably hosting a lavish dinner at the palace of Versailles after the Brexit referendum for 140 bosses of multinationals, including Goldman Sachs and Facebook, where he urged them to choose France. Of course it doesn't take much to spark a revival. The sort of activity that determines the City's fortunes ebbs and flows according to a multitude of external factors. Inbound deals can quickly reverse, floats can pick up again and capital can easily flood back into equities. Essentially, it boils down to market sentiment, but that's the problem. The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. And though Britain's financial services industry has so far proven sufficiently resilient to withstand the efforts of Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam to topple it, the concern will be that the recent rout in the bond markets and sterling proves decisive. The signs are not great. Dealmakers predict a fresh influx of overseas bids in response to the weak pound. Despite a recovery from recent record lows, sterling is 18pc down against the dollar since the start of the year, while the pipeline for fresh share sales is weak. Ministers must respond assertively. Lord Hill's proposed changes to capital markets are welcome but little more than tinkering at the edges. Kwarteng has promised to go much further with a radical package of tax cuts and de-regulation reforms dubbed Big Bang 2 [Oh God]. The public will lose little sleep over the fate of bankers and insurance brokers but the financial services industry is much broader, employing 1.3m people and the City generates £200bn a year in output, while contributing £100bn in tax revenues. The Chancellor can't afford to drop the ball again.Have you got a link for this Red? ( I'm no supporter of Truss, nor her current policies) Another article from today. Just for info. www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/eurozone-risk-financial-meltdown-market-chaos-spreads/Eurozone at risk of financial meltdown as market chaos spreads Bloc exposed to surging inflation and higher rates, say analysts By Tom Rees 1 October 2022 • 4:00pm ECB chief Christine Lagarde eurozone economy The eurozone is at risk of a financial meltdown on the same scale as the crisis it suffered a decade ago amid surging inflation and aggressive interest rate rises worldwide, City investors have warned. Bond experts predicted that the European Central Bank could have no choice but to follow the Bank of England and step in to prevent market disaster as strains within the bloc's financial system threaten to hit debt crisis levels within weeks. Analysts say the eurozone is at risk from the same chaos that struck UK markets this week, temporarily sending the pound to a record low and sparking a surge in borrowing costs as swathes of mortgages were pulled by lenders. Investors fear the eurozone could be next amid early signs of building trouble.
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Post by thevoid on Oct 1, 2022 17:46:39 GMT
I'm fully aware of what schadenfreude is, I'm also extensively travelled throughout the EU and beyond and don't hate Johnny Foreigner pal. It's just a shame you can't spell 'Wetherspoon' correctly after all that 😀 On the subject of Germans, the chair of Vote Leave was one don't forget. I have given my spellchecker a good kicking on your behalf Not only did I not spell Wetherspoons correctly I most certainly would not drink in one of their establishments I wasn't talking about Johnny or any other Foreigner I was talking about the Fraud Tim Martin I hope you are enjoying your French Designed, Polish Produced Blue Passport and you are not being too inconvenienced at Customs in your extensive travels around Europe Do you mean that Farage Chap, I understand he has a German Passport No I meant Gisela Stuart. Couldn't really care less where my passport's made as long as it's valid, and I've had no problems getting through numerous airports- the only small delays I've experienced are due to COVID paperwork checks and those infernal passport scanners (I always seem to pick the ropey one). Sorry mate 🙂 PS I mentioned Johnny Foreigner as your comment about apologising for using a German word seem to allude that I was xenophobic. Do try to keep up.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 1, 2022 19:21:22 GMT
I have given my spellchecker a good kicking on your behalf Not only did I not spell Wetherspoons correctly I most certainly would not drink in one of their establishments I wasn't talking about Johnny or any other Foreigner I was talking about the Fraud Tim Martin I hope you are enjoying your French Designed, Polish Produced Blue Passport and you are not being too inconvenienced at Customs in your extensive travels around Europe Do you mean that Farage Chap, I understand he has a German Passport No I meant Gisela Stuart. Couldn't really care less where my passport's made as long as it's valid, and I've had no problems getting through numerous airports- the only small delays I've experienced are due to COVID paperwork checks and those infernal passport scanners (I always seem to pick the ropey one). Sorry mate 🙂 PS I mentioned Johnny Foreigner as your comment about apologising for using a German word seem to allude that I was xenophobic. Do try to keep up. You obviously don't do irony of course I knew you meant Gisela, but my comment re Farage stands She seems a complex individual with a propensity to change her mind constantly She was born a German Citizen and became a British one. She married a Mr Stuart and when she divorced him and married a Mr Scott yet she remained Stuart. She was a Labour MP and when she stepped down urged voters to vote Conservative and now sits in HoL as an Independent Strange indeed. You're not intlegent enough to reinterpret the meaning of what I write so don't bother And by the way I could never envisage a scenario where I I would be your mate or pal, pal.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 19:29:56 GMT
Often a more sensible and balanced read than the main body of the paper, this was in today's Telegraph business section and is about the long term cost of Kamikwase's blunder and the reality of post-Brexit life on the City: The pound has rallied, the panic in the bond markets has receded and the FTSE index has regained a modicum of ground. The reaction to Kwarteng's mini-budget may have been somewhat overblown but the decision to bring in the OBR from the cold is sensible. It has helped restore some calm, which was undoubtedly needed after a week of utter chaos. Yet some of the fallout will be lasting. The UK came close to another financial crisis that could have wiped out the retirement savings of millions. The BoE's intervention was critical but may only be a temporary reprieve, and a full investigation into what happened, and whether it could again, is urgently needed. Elsewhere, the mortgage market, where a staggering 40pc of products have vanished as a result of the mini-budget, is unlikely to recover sufficiently to avoid a housing crash. At some point, Kwarteng must also take a step back and assess the damage he has inflicted on the financial sector. For a govt keen to restore some of the City's allure, the signs are not encouraging. At one stage, UK markets had lost as much as £500bn on Liz Truss's watch, a gift to those who have long sought to steal a march on London in the rankings of the world's financial centres, and a blow to the capital's own ongoing attempts to challenge New York and Singapore for dominance. Some of this week's capital outflow will have been reversed but only some - confidence in UK assets has taken a hammering, heightening fears about the square mile's decline. Central to London's standing is its reputation as a place for international investors and companies to raise capital. But the UK stock market is shrinking quickly. UK equity outflows are heading for a record $18bn this year, according to data from the Bank of America. Meanwhile UK companies including Stagecoach, Biffa and Ted Baker, with a total value of over £40bn, have been taken private or disappeared to overseas buyers this year, further hollowing out an already shrinking stock market. Compounding this trend is the fact that just £1.2bn has been raised via initial public offerings in London in 2022, according to Bloomberg. That is just 14pc of the European total, the lowest since 2010. This has rapidly narrowed the gap between London and its nearest rivals. With the FTSE 100 taking an 8pc hit since January and the FTSE 250 tumbling 29pc, the combined market capitalisation of companies with a main UK quote has shrunk to within relative touching distance of the chief challenger, Paris. With a combined value of $2.5tn, the gap between the pair is now $156bn, close to a record low. This will be music to Emmanuel Macron's ears. Of all Europe's leaders it is France's president who would most love to steal London's crown as Europe's pre-eminent equity market. Macron has made little attempt to hide his true intentions, memorably hosting a lavish dinner at the palace of Versailles after the Brexit referendum for 140 bosses of multinationals, including Goldman Sachs and Facebook, where he urged them to choose France. Of course it doesn't take much to spark a revival. The sort of activity that determines the City's fortunes ebbs and flows according to a multitude of external factors. Inbound deals can quickly reverse, floats can pick up again and capital can easily flood back into equities. Essentially, it boils down to market sentiment, but that's the problem. The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. And though Britain's financial services industry has so far proven sufficiently resilient to withstand the efforts of Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam to topple it, the concern will be that the recent rout in the bond markets and sterling proves decisive. The signs are not great. Dealmakers predict a fresh influx of overseas bids in response to the weak pound. Despite a recovery from recent record lows, sterling is 18pc down against the dollar since the start of the year, while the pipeline for fresh share sales is weak. Ministers must respond assertively. Lord Hill's proposed changes to capital markets are welcome but little more than tinkering at the edges. Kwarteng has promised to go much further with a radical package of tax cuts and de-regulation reforms dubbed Big Bang 2 [Oh God]. The public will lose little sleep over the fate of bankers and insurance brokers but the financial services industry is much broader, employing 1.3m people and the City generates £200bn a year in output, while contributing £100bn in tax revenues. The Chancellor can't afford to drop the ball again.Have you got a link to this opinion piece Red? ( I'm no supporter of Truss, nor her current policies) Another article from today, offering a different opinion, what do you think? www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/eurozone-risk-financial-meltdown-market-chaos-spreads/Eurozone at risk of financial meltdown as market chaos spreads Bloc exposed to surging inflation and higher rates, say analysts By Tom Rees 1 October 2022 • 4:00pm ECB chief Christine Lagarde eurozone economy The eurozone is at risk of a financial meltdown on the same scale as the crisis it suffered a decade ago amid surging inflation and aggressive interest rate rises worldwide, City investors have warned. Bond experts predicted that the European Central Bank could have no choice but to follow the Bank of England and step in to prevent market disaster as strains within the bloc's financial system threaten to hit debt crisis levels within weeks. Analysts say the eurozone is at risk from the same chaos that struck UK markets this week, temporarily sending the pound to a record low and sparking a surge in borrowing costs as swathes of mortgages were pulled by lenders. Investors fear the eurozone could be next amid early signs of building trouble.
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Post by wannabee on Oct 1, 2022 19:48:22 GMT
Often a more sensible and balanced read than the main body of the paper, this was in today's Telegraph business section and is about the long term cost of Kamikwase's blunder and the reality of post-Brexit life on the City: The pound has rallied, the panic in the bond markets has receded and the FTSE index has regained a modicum of ground. The reaction to Kwarteng's mini-budget may have been somewhat overblown but the decision to bring in the OBR from the cold is sensible. It has helped restore some calm, which was undoubtedly needed after a week of utter chaos. Yet some of the fallout will be lasting. The UK came close to another financial crisis that could have wiped out the retirement savings of millions. The BoE's intervention was critical but may only be a temporary reprieve, and a full investigation into what happened, and whether it could again, is urgently needed. Elsewhere, the mortgage market, where a staggering 40pc of products have vanished as a result of the mini-budget, is unlikely to recover sufficiently to avoid a housing crash. At some point, Kwarteng must also take a step back and assess the damage he has inflicted on the financial sector. For a govt keen to restore some of the City's allure, the signs are not encouraging. At one stage, UK markets had lost as much as £500bn on Liz Truss's watch, a gift to those who have long sought to steal a march on London in the rankings of the world's financial centres, and a blow to the capital's own ongoing attempts to challenge New York and Singapore for dominance. Some of this week's capital outflow will have been reversed but only some - confidence in UK assets has taken a hammering, heightening fears about the square mile's decline. Central to London's standing is its reputation as a place for international investors and companies to raise capital. But the UK stock market is shrinking quickly. UK equity outflows are heading for a record $18bn this year, according to data from the Bank of America. Meanwhile UK companies including Stagecoach, Biffa and Ted Baker, with a total value of over £40bn, have been taken private or disappeared to overseas buyers this year, further hollowing out an already shrinking stock market. Compounding this trend is the fact that just £1.2bn has been raised via initial public offerings in London in 2022, according to Bloomberg. That is just 14pc of the European total, the lowest since 2010. This has rapidly narrowed the gap between London and its nearest rivals. With the FTSE 100 taking an 8pc hit since January and the FTSE 250 tumbling 29pc, the combined market capitalisation of companies with a main UK quote has shrunk to within relative touching distance of the chief challenger, Paris. With a combined value of $2.5tn, the gap between the pair is now $156bn, close to a record low. This will be music to Emmanuel Macron's ears. Of all Europe's leaders it is France's president who would most love to steal London's crown as Europe's pre-eminent equity market. Macron has made little attempt to hide his true intentions, memorably hosting a lavish dinner at the palace of Versailles after the Brexit referendum for 140 bosses of multinationals, including Goldman Sachs and Facebook, where he urged them to choose France. Of course it doesn't take much to spark a revival. The sort of activity that determines the City's fortunes ebbs and flows according to a multitude of external factors. Inbound deals can quickly reverse, floats can pick up again and capital can easily flood back into equities. Essentially, it boils down to market sentiment, but that's the problem. The government may never admit [nor its firmly dug in supporters!] but Brexit and the post-trade issues that have followed, and still fester, continue to eat away at the UK's standing. And though Britain's financial services industry has so far proven sufficiently resilient to withstand the efforts of Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam to topple it, the concern will be that the recent rout in the bond markets and sterling proves decisive. The signs are not great. Dealmakers predict a fresh influx of overseas bids in response to the weak pound. Despite a recovery from recent record lows, sterling is 18pc down against the dollar since the start of the year, while the pipeline for fresh share sales is weak. Ministers must respond assertively. Lord Hill's proposed changes to capital markets are welcome but little more than tinkering at the edges. Kwarteng has promised to go much further with a radical package of tax cuts and de-regulation reforms dubbed Big Bang 2 [Oh God]. The public will lose little sleep over the fate of bankers and insurance brokers but the financial services industry is much broader, employing 1.3m people and the City generates £200bn a year in output, while contributing £100bn in tax revenues. The Chancellor can't afford to drop the ball again.Have you got a link for this Red? ( I'm no supporter of Truss, nor her current policies) Another article from today. Just for info. www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/eurozone-risk-financial-meltdown-market-chaos-spreads/Eurozone at risk of financial meltdown as market chaos spreads Bloc exposed to surging inflation and higher rates, say analysts By Tom Rees 1 October 2022 • 4:00pm ECB chief Christine Lagarde eurozone economy The eurozone is at risk of a financial meltdown on the same scale as the crisis it suffered a decade ago amid surging inflation and aggressive interest rate rises worldwide, City investors have warned. Bond experts predicted that the European Central Bank could have no choice but to follow the Bank of England and step in to prevent market disaster as strains within the bloc's financial system threaten to hit debt crisis levels within weeks. Analysts say the eurozone is at risk from the same chaos that struck UK markets this week, temporarily sending the pound to a record low and sparking a surge in borrowing costs as swathes of mortgages were pulled by lenders. Investors fear the eurozone could be next amid early signs of building trouble. In a volatile Market you could never rule anything out but the article is less than convincing I can see the hand of one of the Barclay Brothers requesting a counterbalancing Article to the one Red posted I thought it was a nice touch leading with a Photo of Christine Lagarde holding her hands to her head yet not one comment from or about her in the Article The Article itself listed every calamity that happened after Karzi's "mini budget" and reimagined it in a Parallel Universe happening to the Euro The only piece in the Article I would completely concur with is that ECB rates are going to rise. The next scheduled meeting of ECB is on 5th October in Cyprus where I fully expect ECB to raise the Base by 0.75 points to 2.00% hardly likely to cause a panic among Mortgage Holders, but painful nonetheless
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 19:59:53 GMT
Have you got a link for this Red? ( I'm no supporter of Truss, nor her current policies) Another article from today. Just for info. www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/eurozone-risk-financial-meltdown-market-chaos-spreads/Eurozone at risk of financial meltdown as market chaos spreads Bloc exposed to surging inflation and higher rates, say analysts By Tom Rees 1 October 2022 • 4:00pm ECB chief Christine Lagarde eurozone economy The eurozone is at risk of a financial meltdown on the same scale as the crisis it suffered a decade ago amid surging inflation and aggressive interest rate rises worldwide, City investors have warned. Bond experts predicted that the European Central Bank could have no choice but to follow the Bank of England and step in to prevent market disaster as strains within the bloc's financial system threaten to hit debt crisis levels within weeks. Analysts say the eurozone is at risk from the same chaos that struck UK markets this week, temporarily sending the pound to a record low and sparking a surge in borrowing costs as swathes of mortgages were pulled by lenders. Investors fear the eurozone could be next amid early signs of building trouble. In a volatile Market you could never rule anything out but the article is less than convincing I can see the hand of one of the Barclay Brothers requesting a counterbalancing Article to the one Red posted I thought it was a nice touch leading with a Photo of Christine Lagarde holding her hands to her head yet not one comment from or about her in the Article The Article itself listed every calamity that happened after Karzi's "mini budget" and reimagined it in a Parallel Universe happening to the Euro The only piece in the Article I would completely concur with is that ECB rates are going to rise. The next scheduled meeting of ECB is on 5th October in Cyprus where I fully expect ECB to raise the Base by 0.75 points to 2.00% hardly likely to cause a panic among Mortgage Holders, but painful nonetheless Of course, it's just an opinion .....any prediction of the future is really an opinion. The IMF , the experts, have said that they have got it wrong in their forecast following Truss' s mini budget, and I'm no fan of Truss.....the IMF and the media added yo the problem.....I'm just posting an opinion about the EU from the same source as Red, but he doesn't seem to have the link to it.....I was interested in who actually wrote it, the Telegraph seem to have removed it .
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 20:13:25 GMT
In a volatile Market you could never rule anything out but the article is less than convincing I can see the hand of one of the Barclay Brothers requesting a counterbalancing Article to the one Red posted I thought it was a nice touch leading with a Photo of Christine Lagarde holding her hands to her head yet not one comment from or about her in the Article The Article itself listed every calamity that happened after Karzi's "mini budget" and reimagined it in a Parallel Universe happening to the Euro The only piece in the Article I would completely concur with is that ECB rates are going to rise. The next scheduled meeting of ECB is on 5th October in Cyprus where I fully expect ECB to raise the Base by 0.75 points to 2.00% hardly likely to cause a panic among Mortgage Holders, but painful nonetheless Of course, it's just an opinion .....any prediction of the future is really an opinion. The IMF , the experts, have said that they have got it wrong in their forecast following Truss' s mini budget, and I'm no fan of Truss.....the IMF and the media added yo the problem.....I'm just posting an opinion about the EU from the same source as Red, but he doesn't seem to have the link to it.....I was interested in who actually wrote it, the Telegraph seem to have removed it . It's here BJR: (Ben Marlow is The Telegraph's chief city commentator). www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/without-drastic-intervention-macron-will-steal-citys-crown/The trick now, is to find an article published in the left wing press that supports Kwarteng's budget.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 20:17:22 GMT
Of course, it's just an opinion .....any prediction of the future is really an opinion. The IMF , the experts, have said that they have got it wrong in their forecast following Truss' s mini budget, and I'm no fan of Truss.....the IMF and the media added yo the problem.....I'm just posting an opinion about the EU from the same source as Red, but he doesn't seem to have the link to it.....I was interested in who actually wrote it, the Telegraph seem to have removed it . It's here BJR: www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/without-drastic-intervention-macron-will-steal-citys-crown/The trick now, is to find an article published in the left wing press that supports Kwarteng's budget. [br Thank you. I'm after no tricks Paul. The EU article is just a different opinion.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 20:21:50 GMT
Of course, it's just an opinion .....any prediction of the future is really an opinion. The IMF , the experts, have said that they have got it wrong in their forecast following Truss' s mini budget, and I'm no fan of Truss.....the IMF and the media added yo the problem.....I'm just posting an opinion about the EU from the same source as Red, but he doesn't seem to have the link to it.....I was interested in who actually wrote it, the Telegraph seem to have removed it . It's here BJR: (Ben Marlow is The Telegraph's chief city commentator). www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/10/01/without-drastic-intervention-macron-will-steal-citys-crown/The trick now, is to find an article published in the left wing press that supports Kwarteng's budget. The link you provide isn't the same article as Red posted Paul, as far as I can see. Where is the bit in bold for instance?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 20:24:33 GMT
[br Thank you. I'm after no tricks Paul. The EU article is just a different opinion. The point being, that The Telegraph (the mouthpiece of The Tory party) has published numerous articles criticising the budget of Kwarteng & Truss, which (imo) makes those criticisms far more legitimate than if they had been published in the Guardian or the Independent. Indeed, I seriously doubt that you will find ANY support for the budget in the left wing press, hence why I'd suggest considering the link that you have posted, with some caution. If that makes sense?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 1, 2022 20:27:00 GMT
[br Thank you. I'm after no tricks Paul. The EU article is just a different opinion. The point being, that The Telegraph (the mouthpiece of The Tory party) has published numerous articles criticising the budget of Kwarteng & Truss, which (imo) makes those criticisms far more legitimate than if they had been published in the Guardian or the Independent. Indeed, I seriously doubt that you will find ANY support for the budget in the left wing press, hence why I'd suggest considering the link that you have posted, with some caution. If that makes sense? I understand that....but its not my point. The link isn't the same as Red posted.. I'm not supporting Truss. The EU article link from the same source is equally an opinion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 20:31:01 GMT
The link you provide isn't the same article as Red posted Paul, as far as I can see. Where is the bit in bold for instance? The entire thing is behind a paywall, so I can only see the opening paragraph (Google is your friend) but what I can see, is IDENTICAL to his original link.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 1, 2022 20:32:45 GMT
The point being, that The Telegraph (the mouthpiece of The Tory party) has published numerous articles criticising the budget of Kwarteng & Truss, which (imo) makes those criticisms far more legitimate than if they had been published in the Guardian or the Independent. Indeed, I seriously doubt that you will find ANY support for the budget in the left wing press, hence why I'd suggest considering the link that you have posted, with some caution. If that makes sense? I understand that....but its not my point. The link isn't the same as Red posted.. I'm not supporting Truss. The EU article link from the same source is equally an opinion. It's an opinion but it's not equally, if my explanation makes sense?
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