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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 1, 2022 12:47:11 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2022 11:03:38 GMT
The pound is trading 23% lower against the dollar today compared with before the brexit vote. Yet where is the massive boost in exports a devalued currency should lead to? And the Euro is below parity, Dollar has got stronger, significantly so in the last month perhaps give it more than a few days to see an increase in exports.....
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2022 11:08:00 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 2, 2022 11:40:34 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted. It's not the SAME end point though is it? I (and I'm sure the majority of the country) would much rather have prices held down, rather than be given a few quid which ultimately wont even touch the sides when it comes to the astronomical rises we are going to have to endure.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2022 11:52:03 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted. It's not the SAME end point though is it? I (and I'm sure the majority of the country) would much rather have prices held down, rather than be given a few quid which ultimately wont even touch the sides when it comes to the astronomical rises we are going to have to endure. Its pretty obvious the current support isn't the final package in terms of quantum, the end point is still massive government spending to pay for the rise in some peoples fuel bills whichever way you do it, but in terms of this article my point is it is not comparing like with like across different countries.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2022 11:54:09 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted. It's not the SAME end point though is it? I (and I'm sure the majority of the country) would much rather have prices held down, rather than be given a few quid which ultimately wont even touch the sides when it comes to the astronomical rises we are going to have to endure. Whether you take direct action on costs like Germany , France, etc. or let prices rise and give money to those in most need is a political decision. The former , such as Labour's proposal to freeze energy prices as Macron has done with electricity in France, helps the rich and high energy users more than the poor. It that fair? My beef is why is this issue on the Brexit thread? UK inflation is higher than the EU mean inflation rate by a small (0.3%) amount despite the huge action taken by France, Italy, Germany, etc. but lower than most EU countries. This link has all European countries' inflation: tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europeIt is not a Brexit issue.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 2, 2022 12:05:45 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted. Yes, it cannot possibly have anything to do with brexit that our economy is tanking in comparison with western european economies. Nothing bad ever has been because of brexit and to say otherwise is blasphemy.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 2, 2022 12:13:00 GMT
The pound is trading 23% lower against the dollar today compared with before the brexit vote. Yet where is the massive boost in exports a devalued currency should lead to? And the Euro is below parity, Dollar has got stronger, significantly so in the last month perhaps give it more than a few days to see an increase in exports..... £1 buys you 1.15 euros at the moment. Pre brexit vote it bought 1.32euros on 23 June 2016. A significant devaluation. It dropped by the largest day drop in 30 years to 1.20 euros after the brexit result was announced. But obviously that had absolutely nothing to do with brexit!!! We have not seen the corresponding boost to exports to make up for this that you might hope to see off the back of a significantly devalued currency (although you say that is still to come!). It a brexiteer’s eyes, it is always too early to judge the impact of brexit. That’s because they are pretty much all bad so far. Meanwhile Downing Street point blank refuses to actually conduct an assessment of the economic impact of brexit on our economy. I wonder why!? Our economy is in dire straits. And brexit is part of the reason it is so bad.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 2, 2022 12:30:42 GMT
It's not the SAME end point though is it? I (and I'm sure the majority of the country) would much rather have prices held down, rather than be given a few quid which ultimately wont even touch the sides when it comes to the astronomical rises we are going to have to endure. Whether you take direct action on costs like Germany , France, etc. or let prices rise and give money to those in most need is a political decision. The former , such as Labour's proposal to freeze energy prices as Macron has done with electricity in France, helps the rich and high energy users more than the poor. It that fair? My beef is why is this issue on the Brexit thread? UK inflation is higher than the EU mean inflation rate by a small (0.3%) amount despite the huge action taken by France, Italy, Germany, etc. but lower than most EU countries. This link has all European countries' inflation: tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europeIt is not a Brexit issue. It never is though, is it! Food shortages and empty shelves - not Brexit. Driver shortages - not Brexit. Fuel shortages - not Brexit. Huge numbers of job vacancies - not Brexit. Biggest economic hit from Covid of the G7 - not Brexit. A collapsing pound - not Brexit. More expensive imports contributing to inflation - not Brexit. Widening balance of trade gap - not Brexit. Businesses giving up exporting - not Brexit. One of the lowest GDP growth rates of the G7 compared to pre-pandemic levels - not Brexit. Lowest forecast growth rate of all the G7 - not Brexit. Given that your position is that we need to wait decades before we'll see the full fruits of Brexit, why not just accept that it's a shitshow for the foreseeable short to medium term? This need to defend the indefensible is as risible as FYD's in relation to the Tory Party! We can all see that Brexit is doing nothing for the country at the moment. If and when some actual benefits of Brexit appear, I'm sure the government (if it's still Conservative) will be only too quick to make a big thing of them and we can all be grateful that we've managed to wring at least something worthwhile from a move which, currently, looks like being an act of national folly that'll bedevil the country for years.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2022 12:31:40 GMT
And the Euro is below parity, Dollar has got stronger, significantly so in the last month perhaps give it more than a few days to see an increase in exports..... £1 buys you 1.15 euros at the moment. Pre brexit vote it bought 1.32euros on 23 June 2016. A significant devaluation. It dropped by the largest day drop in 30 years to 1.20 euros after the brexit result was announced. But obviously that had absolutely nothing to do with brexit!!! We have not seen the corresponding boost to exports to make up for this that you might hope to see off the back of a significantly devalued currency (although you say that is still to come!). It a brexiteer’s eyes, it is always too early to judge the impact of brexit. That’s because they are pretty much all bad so far. Meanwhile Downing Street point blank refuses to actually conduct an assessment of the economic impact of brexit on our economy. I wonder why!? Our economy is in dire straits. And brexit is part of the reason it is so bad. Its groundoggyoggy day again, you post some guff on the USD exchange rate, when its pointed out to you the story is a strong USD, you then start rambling about the Euro exchange rate and pretending my answers were about the euro when I clearly state the usd exchange rate has got significantly stronger in the last month its no wonder less and less people engage with you.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2022 12:46:27 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted. Yes, it cannot possibly have anything to do with brexit that our economy is tanking in comparison with western european economies. Nothing bad ever has been because of brexit and to say otherwise is blasphemy. You use the word " tanking" for the UK economy, how would you describe the economies or US and China? tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-growth-rate?continent=worldI notice you refer to " Western European economies". Is that because it is convenient to ignore the rest of the Europe? Germany's GDP increased by 0.1%, UK declined by 0.1%. I suggest you " tanking" description is hysterical exaggeration. As the huge queues at British and German airports suggest, those countries in the Mediterranean are enjoying a huge tourist boost at present. Spain's tourism is almost back to prepandemic levels. What do you think will happen to Mediterranean economies when the summer is over? The economies of capitalist economies are cyclical, that is its nature. That cycle will be more severe because of post pandemic growth and inflation due to energy costs. Time will tell but the US economy came out of the pandemic faster and stronger than the rest of the world and started to slow down last year and experienced negative growth in the first two quarters of this year. Pandemic issues in China have caused their economy to go into negative growth. The UK is following US and China and I suggest the EU is lagging behind the UK, time will tell. Yes, you are correct the UK economic performance "cannot possibly have anything to do with Brexit". The UK is a world based economy with most of our exports to non EU countries. As I pointed out in my quarterly report, exports to the Commonwealth and countries like Vietnam are growing rapidly. Well no not really, there is bound to be some adverse impact from leaving the EU after over 4 decades membership, but it is minor and wildly exaggerated by anti Brexit press, and wildly distorted by meaningless graphs that do clever comparisons without units and based on some historical point in time like 2010. UK commerce is adjusting to post Brexit life, food for example that was most seriously impacted by EU red tape, is rapidly adjusting to conditions post Brexit by displacing food imports from the EU and increasing exports to the rest of the world. For example: www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2021/02/19/Cheese-maker-Wyke-Farms-posts-record-sales#:~:text=Cheese%20maker%20Wyke%20Farms%20had,the%20highest%20in%20company%20history.
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Post by neworleanstokie on Sept 2, 2022 12:47:44 GMT
£1 buys you 1.15 euros at the moment. Pre brexit vote it bought 1.32euros on 23 June 2016. A significant devaluation. It dropped by the largest day drop in 30 years to 1.20 euros after the brexit result was announced. But obviously that had absolutely nothing to do with brexit!!! We have not seen the corresponding boost to exports to make up for this that you might hope to see off the back of a significantly devalued currency (although you say that is still to come!). It a brexiteer’s eyes, it is always too early to judge the impact of brexit. That’s because they are pretty much all bad so far. Meanwhile Downing Street point blank refuses to actually conduct an assessment of the economic impact of brexit on our economy. I wonder why!? Our economy is in dire straits. And brexit is part of the reason it is so bad. Its groundoggyoggy day again, you post some guff on the USD exchange rate, when its pointed out to you the story is a strong USD, you then start rambling about the Euro exchange rate and pretending my answers were about the euro when I clearly state the usd exchange rate has got significantly stronger in the last month its no wonder less and less people engage with you. if a "strong" USD was matched with a "strong" GBP the net effect would be no change to the exchange rate!
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Post by gawa on Sept 2, 2022 12:57:31 GMT
Can anyone tell me some of the positive impacts of brexit so far which have had a noticeabley positive impact on the lives of people in the uk?
Lots of talk about doom and gloom here and whether or not brexit caused it.
We got brexit done to make our country great again. So let's share some of the positive impacts its had to drown out these woke snowflakes.
And I don't mean shit like being able to pump our literal shit onto beaches which benefits a sewage company. I mean benefits for people like you and I.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2022 13:07:48 GMT
Whether you take direct action on costs like Germany , France, etc. or let prices rise and give money to those in most need is a political decision. The former , such as Labour's proposal to freeze energy prices as Macron has done with electricity in France, helps the rich and high energy users more than the poor. It that fair? My beef is why is this issue on the Brexit thread? UK inflation is higher than the EU mean inflation rate by a small (0.3%) amount despite the huge action taken by France, Italy, Germany, etc. but lower than most EU countries. This link has all European countries' inflation: tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europeIt is not a Brexit issue. It never is though, is it! Food shortages and empty shelves - not Brexit. What food shortages?Driver shortages - not Brexit. Same across western world, made worse in UK by IR35 regsFuel shortages - not Brexit. Due to panic buying triggered by anti Brexit media.Huge numbers of job vacancies - not Brexit. True. There has never been a better time to get a job in UK. We have stopped EU nationals walking in and taking jobs depriving them of our own children. All nations are now treated equally whether they come from Europe, Africa, Asia Oceania, or the Americas.Biggest economic hit from Covid of the G7 - not Brexit. Covid hit before the UK left the EU fully.A collapsing pound - not Brexit. All major currencies are dropping relative to US$.More expensive imports contributing to inflation - not Brexit. Inflation is marginally higher than EU mean which is depressed by German, French, and Italian government action, for which they will eventually have to pay. Most EU nations have higher inflation.Widening balance of trade gap - not Brexit. Toally driven by energy costs and UK dependence on gas for electricity. Other countries rely more on nuclear or coal fired power stations.Businesses giving up exporting - not Brexit. RUBBISH Exports are at record levels.^One of the lowest GDP growth rates of the G7 compared to pre-pandemic levels - not Brexit. Just 1 quarter* result in the cycle. UK has recovered to prepandemic GDP, unlike Germany.Lowest forecast growth rate of all the G7 - not Brexit. We'll see, but all the forcasts for the UK are usually wrong.Given that your position is that we need to wait decades before we'll see the full fruits of Brexit, why not just accept that it's a shitshow for the foreseeable short to medium term? This need to defend the indefensible is as risible as FYD's in relation to the Tory Party! We can all see that Brexit is doing nothing for the country at the moment. If and when some actual benefits of Brexit appear, I'm sure the government (if it's still Conservative) will be only too quick to make a big thing of them and we can all be grateful that we've managed to wring at least something worthwhile from a move which, currently, looks like being an act of national folly that'll bedevil the country for years. See above in bold .* commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn0278^ UK Exports are now above the mean 2019 pre pandemic leveltradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/exports#:~:text=Exports%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom,Million%20in%20June%20of%201955.Major benefits: Now make our own laws. Now make our own trade deals. Record level of investment in UK. Lowest unemployment in over 40 years. Many sectors booming: banking, energy companies, house building, education of foreign students at record level, exports to Commonwealth highest increase in 2 decades, more young people than ever wanting to start their own businesses. PS UK food inflation is lower than the EU mean and most of the EU member countries. tradingeconomics.com/country-list/food-inflation?continent=europeNow the UK is out of the EU, we are free to do trade deals with other countries to import cheaper food from the rest of the world instead of being so reliant on the EU, where food production will decline due to climate change.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 2, 2022 15:21:20 GMT
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Sept 2, 2022 15:47:07 GMT
It's been heading that way for a long time mate . Like you say thankfully we're out now
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 2, 2022 16:51:19 GMT
Its groundoggyoggy day again, you post some guff on the USD exchange rate, when its pointed out to you the story is a strong USD, you then start rambling about the Euro exchange rate and pretending my answers were about the euro when I clearly state the usd exchange rate has got significantly stronger in the last month its no wonder less and less people engage with you. if a "strong" USD was matched with a "strong" GBP the net effect would be no change to the exchange rate! Yes thats true but my point is its not a weak pound, the dollar is going strong against all currencies.
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Post by maxplonk on Sept 2, 2022 18:14:57 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 3, 2022 0:05:38 GMT
Apart from the fact it doesnt really mention brexit, it might also help if the figures were comparative, approach in much of Europe was to hold down prices and subsidise losses, in UK we are generally giving cash to people to pay the bills rather than hold down prices, same end point for consumer but allows guff like you posted. Yes, it cannot possibly have anything to do with brexit that our economy is tanking in comparison with western european economies. Nothing bad ever has been because of brexit and to say otherwise is blasphemy. Uk economy is tanking you say ?
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2022 7:00:09 GMT
£1 buys you 1.15 euros at the moment. Pre brexit vote it bought 1.32euros on 23 June 2016. A significant devaluation. It dropped by the largest day drop in 30 years to 1.20 euros after the brexit result was announced. But obviously that had absolutely nothing to do with brexit!!! We have not seen the corresponding boost to exports to make up for this that you might hope to see off the back of a significantly devalued currency (although you say that is still to come!). It a brexiteer’s eyes, it is always too early to judge the impact of brexit. That’s because they are pretty much all bad so far. Meanwhile Downing Street point blank refuses to actually conduct an assessment of the economic impact of brexit on our economy. I wonder why!? Our economy is in dire straits. And brexit is part of the reason it is so bad. Its groundoggyoggy day again, you post some guff on the USD exchange rate, when its pointed out to you the story is a strong USD, you then start rambling about the Euro exchange rate and pretending my answers were about the euro when I clearly state the usd exchange rate has got significantly stronger in the last month its no wonder less and less people engage with you. It’s groundhog day that you don’t grapple with the issues I have raised. If the euro and the pound have performed the same since the brexit vote and it is only down to the strength of the dollar that has devalued the pound, why has sterling devalued so heavily against the euro since the brexit vote? No doubt you will deflect again.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2022 7:01:44 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 3, 2022 8:14:02 GMT
Your post contains a lot of unsatisfactory things, but why is this debate on the Brexit thread? Firstly all predictions of the UK economy invariably prove to be incorrect so I'll ignore those links. Second much of what you describe is worldwide/Europe wide due to post pandemic effects and the impact of the war in Ukraine. Take food banks, the problem is the same in Germany: newseu.cgtn.com/news/2022-08-03/German-food-banks-suffer-as-former-donors-forced-to-become-recipients-1caW7UfseWI/index.htmlThe reality is food prices are inflating everywhere, but it so happens food inflation is higher in most of Europe than the UK. tradingeconomics.com/country-list/food-inflation?continent=europePoverty is also a major issue across Europe. www.trtworld.com/magazine/millions-of-people-in-germany-are-poor-as-inflation-soars-58481#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIn%20Germany%2C%2013.8%20million%20people,median%20income%20are%20considered%20poor. Personal debt is an issue across Europe where the UK is average: www.statista.com/statistics/1073593/household-debt-ratio-europe-by-country/Thirdly, on some issues you are correct, but you clearly don't read your own links. The UK is the most impacted by energy price increase because of our high reliance on gas for heating homes and to generate electricity, second highest in Europe to Italy (It's in your link.) So is the UK wrong to have swept away coal fired power stations? Is the UK wrong not to have built 56 nuclear power stations like France? (Most of which are currently shutdown, and UK power stations are supplying France with electricity.) Our government has chosen not to cap prices or reduce tax like many European countries; that is a political decision, nothing to do with Brexit. We are where we are after over 4 decades of EU membership where we ended up in 2016 with a trade deficit with the EU of £70billion, £30b with Germany alone. Plus actually paying for 47 years to be a member of "the club". We became Europe's "Treasure Island". That has now stopped, thank God.
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Post by 4372 on Sept 3, 2022 11:21:44 GMT
Of course, the causes and consequences of events and issues are complex, but they need to be discussed, not closed off for debate. What some people see as unimportant or irrelevant can be judged as crucial by others. Life in Britain is grim for many, and it is likely to get worse over winter. People who voted for Johnson to "get Brexit done" have to accept the consequences of their ill-thought out decisions.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 3, 2022 11:26:41 GMT
Yes, it cannot possibly have anything to do with brexit that our economy is tanking in comparison with western european economies. Nothing bad ever has been because of brexit and to say otherwise is blasphemy. Uk economy is tanking you say ? It sure is. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9040/#:~:text=Headline%20Indicators%20summary,compared%20to%20the%20previous%20year. GDP growth last quarter = -0.1% Eurozone growth last quarter = +0.7% UK growth forecast range for 2023 = 0 to 0.5%, the worst of the G7.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 3, 2022 11:54:44 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 3, 2022 11:58:05 GMT
Of course, the causes and consequences of events and issues are complex, but they need to be discussed, not closed off for debate. What some people see as unimportant or irrelevant can be judged as crucial by others. Life in Britain is grim for many, and it is likely to get worse over winter. People who voted for Johnson to "get Brexit done" have to accept the consequences of their ill-thought out decisions. And if starmer hadn’t undermined and backstabbed his leader You might not of had a Johnson government at all
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 3, 2022 12:13:28 GMT
Of course, the causes and consequences of events and issues are complex, but they need to be discussed, not closed off for debate. What some people see as unimportant or irrelevant can be judged as crucial by others. Life in Britain is grim for many, and it is likely to get worse over winter. People who voted for Johnson to "get Brexit done" have to accept the consequences of their ill-thought out decisions. And if starmer hadn’t undermined and backstabbed his leader You might not of had a Johnson government at all Love it. Getting Brexit done and Jeremy Corbyn are the reasons almost everyone gives for excusing electing this current crop of corrupt incompetents, but you keep banging that drum!
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 3, 2022 12:40:00 GMT
And if starmer hadn’t undermined and backstabbed his leader You might not of had a Johnson government at all Love it. Getting Brexit done and Jeremy Corbyn are the reasons almost everyone gives for excusing electing this current crop of corrupt incompetents, but you keep banging that drum! Oh I’ll keep banging it Why do you think they chose Johnson to get brexit done Could it be they didn’t trust labour to deliver the will of the people Due to starmer and his constant undermining
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2022 16:46:45 GMT
Your post contains a lot of unsatisfactory things, but why is this debate on the Brexit thread? Firstly all predictions of the UK economy invariably prove to be incorrect so I'll ignore those links. Second much of what you describe is worldwide/Europe wide due to post pandemic effects and the impact of the war in Ukraine. Take food banks, the problem is the same in Germany: newseu.cgtn.com/news/2022-08-03/German-food-banks-suffer-as-former-donors-forced-to-become-recipients-1caW7UfseWI/index.htmlThe reality is food prices are inflating everywhere, but it so happens food inflation is higher in most of Europe than the UK. tradingeconomics.com/country-list/food-inflation?continent=europePoverty is also a major issue across Europe. www.trtworld.com/magazine/millions-of-people-in-germany-are-poor-as-inflation-soars-58481#:~:text=%E2%80%9CIn%20Germany%2C%2013.8%20million%20people,median%20income%20are%20considered%20poor. Personal debt is an issue across Europe where the UK is average: www.statista.com/statistics/1073593/household-debt-ratio-europe-by-country/Thirdly, on some issues you are correct, but you clearly don't read your own links. The UK is the most impacted by energy price increase because of our high reliance on gas for heating homes and to generate electricity, second highest in Europe to Italy (It's in your link.) So is the UK wrong to have swept away coal fired power stations? Is the UK wrong not to have built 56 nuclear power stations like France? (Most of which are currently shutdown, and UK power stations are supplying France with electricity.) Our government has chosen not to cap prices or reduce tax like many European countries; that is a political decision, nothing to do with Brexit. We are where we are after over 4 decades of EU membership where we ended up in 2016 with a trade deficit with the EU of £70billion, £30b with Germany alone. Plus actually paying for 47 years to be a member of "the club". We became Europe's "Treasure Island". That has now stopped, thank God. And brexit makes all of these things harder and worse. Why do think increased costs and bureaucracy for trade caused by brexit doesn’t impact the economy negatively for businesses and consumers? It increases costs. Else why does any nation sign trade deals?. Whilst you are right that economic predictions are not exactly accurate, they generally get the trends right. For example, inflation is higher (worse) than predicted, but the prediction of the trend for high inflation was correct. The predictions for our economy are as likely to be optimistic as they are pessimistic. You and FYD seem to think our economy is doing well and is in a good shape. And it clearly isn’t.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 3, 2022 16:51:24 GMT
Love it. Getting Brexit done and Jeremy Corbyn are the reasons almost everyone gives for excusing electing this current crop of corrupt incompetents, but you keep banging that drum! Oh I’ll keep banging it Why do you think they chose Johnson to get brexit done Could it be they didn’t trust labour to deliver the will of the people Due to starmer and his constant undermining Brexit is done!? Why is it still one of the main issues for the new PM? Why is there a bill in Parliament to undermine Johnson’s brexit if it is done? The will of the people is that brexit was a mistake.
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