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Post by foster on Jul 9, 2022 10:25:51 GMT
That’s your problem perhaps! You're the one with the problems fella Some top quality banter here
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 9, 2022 11:52:29 GMT
You're the one with the problems fella One “problem” I have is that whenever brexiteers disagree with me, instead of arguing their position on the issue they seem to run out of argument and end up resorting to insults. BigJohnRitchie and Mr Coke are the exception. They always engage in debate which is what this forum should be about. I think I'd include the Right Honourable wagastokie in that too! His Brexit approach is as isolationist, hardline and bonkers as it comes imo, and I couldn't disagree more, but he's never nasty about it.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 10, 2022 22:06:18 GMT
Lots of people understand it perfectly fine, the difference is about £610m per week now for not even being a member whats not too like. OR - it's costing us £1m per hour. www.cityam.com/eu-membership-vs-lost-exports-and-trade-forget-extra-nhs-cash-brexit-costs-britain-173m-per-week/?amp=1So add that to the additional disruption to exports, £50bn spent each year on additional paperwork, fewer planes flying because of 30% of staff gone home and not come back, a complete fuck up over the Northern Ireland protocol, crops rotting in fields while food prices go through the roof, longer queues at airports and ferry terminals, being kicked out of Horizon and Erasmus and the removal of freedoms to live and work in Europe then there's actually quite a lot not to like. Brexit 's happened - fine - but if it's going to work then the very real problems it had caused for people need to be tackled - and I just don't see that , I just see it being flippantly dismissed as 'moaning' ("fuck business"). As for the supposed 'freedom' it has given us I cannot imagine there is one thing that you can do now that you couldn't whilst we were a member of the EU - but I can probably suggest a few things that you can't. But if an imaginary £610m is all you need to make you consider it a success then it's perhaps that same low bar that has got us to where we are. The City AM article is a complete distortion of reality. 1. Firstly you cannot equate tax payers money paid to Brussels for EU membership with exports to the EU, which is income for the UK economy from selling products, most of which goes to paying the cost of production of those products. Exports are not revenue for the government. A small proportion of exports is profit, and only a proportion of that profit goes in taxes to the government. So it is completely erroneous to equate £1m of payment to the EU to £1m exports to the EU, or to suggest that income from exports could be spent on the NHS as the articles claims. (" quitting the European Union means there is £173m a week less to spend on the NHS") 2. It is also hugely misleading when the article states "In January 2021 alone (the first month of Brexit), the value of goods exported to the European Union fell from £14.3bn in the previous month to £7.8bn,” We all remember the long lorry queues in December 2020 due to exporters building stocks in the EU in the possible event of no trade deal being agreed between the UK and the EU. As it happened a trade deal was signed on 30th December, so a huge amount of goods that would normally have been moved in January 2021 were exported in the previous month/year. This is another factor that decreased the 2021 export trade figures making them lower due to stock building in 2020. It seems strange to me that a drop in exports to the EU creates such bother with those wanting to remain in the EU, yet it does not seem to concern them that the UK has been running a massive trade deficit with the EU for decades, and paying a large net financial contribution for the privilege! 3. 2021, the first year out of the EU, was not a normal year like 2018 because the country was still recovering from the pandemic, and even as late as December was impacted by the Omicron variant. Take for example, one of the UK's largest exports vehicles; car manufacturers output and exports are still seriously impaired by the worldwide shortage of microchips which is expected to continue into 2023. It will take years to fully recover from the pandemic before the true impact of Brexit becomes clear. Exports grew in 2021 after the depth of the pandemic impact in 2020 and have continued to recover in 2022. UK goods and services exports in 2021 were £625.4b, and in the 12 months to April 2022 £649.5b. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-trade-in-numbers/uk-trade-in-numbers-web-version4. It is correct that exports to the EU have been reduced by the difficulties of selling to the EU due to the customs barrier. However, costs have also increased for EU exporters selling to the UK, which has resulted in UK businesses displacing imports from the EU. Consequently some UK lost exports to the EU have in effect been replaced by other sales. For example, with all the talk of damage to UK food exports to the EU, it was good to see that in May Highland Fine Cheeses toasted Brexit, because more people shop locally and sales increased by 33% in the past year. They reported that they were on track for record turnover of £2 million during the 12 months to May 2022, up from £1.5m the year before. HFC has expanded rapidly in a year of “extraordinary growth” in the UK. " Brexit has reduced the availability of continental produce, encouraging more shoppers to buy UK cheese," say HFC. " People are thinking more about where food comes from and the conditions in which it is produced," it added. The award-winning company is now also supplying chains such as Waitrose and Marks and Spencer in England www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/local/4337754/ross-shire-cheese-maker-enjoying-soaring-demand/Since there is always fierce competition for supermarket shelf space, it is logical that foreign produce has been displaced from UK supermarket shelves. Cheese is one simple small example where UK products have displaced EU imports. The City AM article highlights loss of UK exports to the EU but says nothing about loss of EU exports to the UK. These lost EU exports have been replaced by UK home produced products and imports from none EU countries. In March Eurostat reported that in 2018 UK exports to the EU were 197 billion Euros and dropped to 146 billion Euros in 2021. It also reported EU exports to the UK in 2018 were 320 billion Euros dropping to 284 billion Euros in 2021. It should be remembered that the UK is still not implemented many of the reciprocal controls on imports from the EU that the EU imposed on the UK. ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=United_Kingdom-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics5. Another reason for the drop in UK exports to the EU is many exporters have switched from selling to the EU to non EU countries. As I reported in my quarterly review on page 1,464, in the last two quarters total UK trade has returned to pre pandemic levels. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1074244/OTS_Release_032022.pdfOne fish exporter reported last year that it is now easier to sell his products to China than the EU. In the case of cheese again, another cheese producer closer to Stoke, Bradbury & Son, on Staden Business Park in Buxton, is expecting to save up to A$1million (around £562,500) a year when tariffs are lifted on cheese exports from the UK to Australia. Having established a successful business selling to large supermarket retailers in the UK, Bradburys began exporting in 2014 and now distributes more than 400 British and European cheeses from 200 suppliers to 25 countries including the US, Canada and Dubai; Australia was added to that list in 2017. One of the main economic benefits from leaving the EU is that outside the EU customs barrier the UK will be able to trade far more freely with the rest of the world which represents over 80% of the world market and is growing faster than the EU market. 6. No reference has been made in the City AM article to the change in the methods of measuring trade since the UK left the EU. Now the UK has left the EU, goods are assigned their country of origin and not necessarily the country from which they came. Previously trade figures were distorted by what is referred to as "the Rotterdam effect" which can inflate UK exports to the EU and EU exports to the UK. The true impact of this is not known. 7. In the interests of balance, mention should be made of inflation, which is also greatly impacting on the cost of trade due to increasing production costs and transport of goods, and the balance of payments. Many exporters have found increased container and transport costs have made marginal profit exports uneconomic. The UK balance of payments has gone into a record deficit because we are a net importer of energy, the cost of which we all know has increased hugely. Conversely Canada is enjoying a huge trade surplus because of the increase in energy price, being an energy exporter thereby boosting their exports and economy. The cost and availability of gas is also impacting on the value of the sterling and the Euro. 8. Why are City AM publishing this article now? The ONS data was available 4 months ago: www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/11/uk-exports-to-eu-fell-by-20bn-last-year-new-ons-data-showsThey must be short of new things to criticize Brexit for. Or is it because if the same misinformation keeps being peddled, more people will be lulled into believing it? I know we live in a post truth age, but I appeal to people not to believe articles like this who twist (spin) data to misrepresent what is actually happening. Yes, UK exports to the EU in 2021 are lower than 2018, but this article prints a fraction of the full facts. Since 2016 we have been bombarded with forecasts of doom and gloom about Brexit, but the reality is the UK is performing economically just as well since Brexit as at least half the other G7 countries. See my last review on page 1,464. Since leaving the EU we are being constantly told all the UK's problems are down to Brexit, but other countries have the same problems and in many cases worse then the UK. There are now repeated claims that the economy is worse than it would have been had the UK stayed in the EU with no concrete evidence of that as a fact. We are being repeatedly subjected to misleading headlines such as: "Manufacturing growth grinds to halt as Brexit bites". www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/manufacturing-growth-grinds-to-halt-as-brexit-bites-324826/The next line of the article stated : " The UK's manufacturing growth has plunged to its lowest level since October." In successive sentences the article proceeds to use the words "plunged", "slowed", "struggled to keep up its growth" and "weaker growth in demand" and mentions troubled supply chains, rising costs and the war in Ukraine. So what is all this about? Answer: the S&P Global/CIPS UK Manufacturing Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) was 54.6 in May, down from 55.8 in April. (Anything above 50 means that the manufacturing sector is growing in the UK. If the score falls below 50 it is shrinking.) The rest of the article talks about the fall in the index number in a foreboding tone, but no context is given. So how bad is 54.6 on the index? During the last 13 years the index has only been consistently above 55 for four periods in 2010-2011, mid 2013 to mid 2014, 2017, and since the recovery from the pandemic in 2021, during which it peaked to its highest level ever. During all the other years since 2008, i.e. most of the time, the index has been below 55, and for over three of those years below 50. tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-pmiIt is stretching beyond credibility to suggest that the PMI dropping below 55 means " Manufacturing growth grinds to halt as Brexit bites" for even the most ardent anti-Brexiteer/Remainer.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 11, 2022 7:22:20 GMT
OR - it's costing us £1m per hour. www.cityam.com/eu-membership-vs-lost-exports-and-trade-forget-extra-nhs-cash-brexit-costs-britain-173m-per-week/?amp=1So add that to the additional disruption to exports, £50bn spent each year on additional paperwork, fewer planes flying because of 30% of staff gone home and not come back, a complete fuck up over the Northern Ireland protocol, crops rotting in fields while food prices go through the roof, longer queues at airports and ferry terminals, being kicked out of Horizon and Erasmus and the removal of freedoms to live and work in Europe then there's actually quite a lot not to like. Brexit 's happened - fine - but if it's going to work then the very real problems it had caused for people need to be tackled - and I just don't see that , I just see it being flippantly dismissed as 'moaning' ("fuck business"). As for the supposed 'freedom' it has given us I cannot imagine there is one thing that you can do now that you couldn't whilst we were a member of the EU - but I can probably suggest a few things that you can't. But if an imaginary £610m is all you need to make you consider it a success then it's perhaps that same low bar that has got us to where we are. The City AM article is a complete distortion of reality. 1. Firstly you cannot equate tax payers money paid to Brussels for EU membership with exports to the EU, which is income for the UK economy from selling products, most of which goes to paying the cost of production of those products. Exports are not revenue for the government. A small proportion of exports is profit, and only a proportion of that profit goes in taxes to the government. So it is completely erroneous to equate £1m of payment to the EU to £1m exports to the EU, or to suggest that income from exports could be spent on the NHS as the articles claims. (" quitting the European Union means there is £173m a week less to spend on the NHS") 2. It is also hugely misleading when the article states "In January 2021 alone (the first month of Brexit), the value of goods exported to the European Union fell from £14.3bn in the previous month to £7.8bn,” We all remember the long lorry queues in December 2020 due to exporters building stocks in the EU in the possible event of no trade deal being agreed between the UK and the EU. As it happened a trade deal was signed on 30th December, so a huge amount of goods that would normally have been moved in January 2021 were exported in the previous month/year. This is another factor that decreased the 2021 export trade figures making them lower due to stock building in 2020. It seems strange to me that a drop in exports to the EU creates such bother with those wanting to remain in the EU, yet it does not seem to concern them that the UK has been running a massive trade deficit with the EU for decades, and paying a large net financial contribution for the privilege! 3. 2021, the first year out of the EU, was not a normal year like 2018 because the country was still recovering from the pandemic, and even as late as December was impacted by the Omicron variant. Take for example, one of the UK's largest exports vehicles; car manufacturers output and exports are still seriously impaired by the worldwide shortage of microchips which is expected to continue into 2023. It will take years to fully recover from the pandemic before the true impact of Brexit becomes clear. Exports grew in 2021 after the depth of the pandemic impact in 2020 and have continued to recover in 2022. UK goods and services exports in 2021 were £625.4b, and in the 12 months to April 2022 £649.5b. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-trade-in-numbers/uk-trade-in-numbers-web-version4. It is correct that exports to the EU have been reduced by the difficulties of selling to the EU due to the customs barrier. However, costs have also increased for EU exporters selling to the UK, which has resulted in UK businesses displacing imports from the EU. Consequently some UK lost exports to the EU have in effect been replaced by other sales. For example, with all the talk of damage to UK food exports to the EU, it was good to see that in May Highland Fine Cheeses toasted Brexit, because more people shop locally and sales increased by 33% in the past year. They reported that they were on track for record turnover of £2 million during the 12 months to May 2022, up from £1.5m the year before. HFC has expanded rapidly in a year of “extraordinary growth” in the UK. " Brexit has reduced the availability of continental produce, encouraging more shoppers to buy UK cheese," say HFC. " People are thinking more about where food comes from and the conditions in which it is produced," it added. The award-winning company is now also supplying chains such as Waitrose and Marks and Spencer in England www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/local/4337754/ross-shire-cheese-maker-enjoying-soaring-demand/Since there is always fierce competition for supermarket shelf space, it is logical that foreign produce has been displaced from UK supermarket shelves. Cheese is one simple small example where UK products have displaced EU imports. The City AM article highlights loss of UK exports to the EU but says nothing about loss of EU exports to the UK. These lost EU exports have been replaced by UK home produced products and imports from none EU countries. In March Eurostat reported that in 2018 UK exports to the EU were 197 billion Euros and dropped to 146 billion Euros in 2021. It also reported EU exports to the UK in 2018 were 320 billion Euros dropping to 284 billion Euros in 2021. It should be remembered that the UK is still not implemented many of the reciprocal controls on imports from the EU that the EU imposed on the UK. ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=United_Kingdom-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics5. Another reason for the drop in UK exports to the EU is many exporters have switched from selling to the EU to non EU countries. As I reported in my quarterly review on page 1,464, in the last two quarters total UK trade has returned to pre pandemic levels. assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1074244/OTS_Release_032022.pdfOne fish exporter reported last year that it is now easier to sell his products to China than the EU. In the case of cheese again, another cheese producer closer to Stoke, Bradbury & Son, on Staden Business Park in Buxton, is expecting to save up to A$1million (around £562,500) a year when tariffs are lifted on cheese exports from the UK to Australia. Having established a successful business selling to large supermarket retailers in the UK, Bradburys began exporting in 2014 and now distributes more than 400 British and European cheeses from 200 suppliers to 25 countries including the US, Canada and Dubai; Australia was added to that list in 2017. One of the main economic benefits from leaving the EU is that outside the EU customs barrier the UK will be able to trade far more freely with the rest of the world which represents over 80% of the world market and is growing faster than the EU market. 6. No reference has been made in the City AM article to the change in the methods of measuring trade since the UK left the EU. Now the UK has left the EU, goods are assigned their country of origin and not necessarily the country from which they came. Previously trade figures were distorted by what is referred to as "the Rotterdam effect" which can inflate UK exports to the EU and EU exports to the UK. The true impact of this is not known. 7. In the interests of balance, mention should be made of inflation, which is also greatly impacting on the cost of trade due to increasing production costs and transport of goods, and the balance of payments. Many exporters have found increased container and transport costs have made marginal profit exports uneconomic. The UK balance of payments has gone into a record deficit because we are a net importer of energy, the cost of which we all know has increased hugely. Conversely Canada is enjoying a huge trade surplus because of the increase in energy price, being an energy exporter thereby boosting their exports and economy. The cost and availability of gas is also impacting on the value of the sterling and the Euro. 8. Why are City AM publishing this article now? The ONS data was available 4 months ago: www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/11/uk-exports-to-eu-fell-by-20bn-last-year-new-ons-data-showsThey must be short of new things to criticize Brexit for. Or is it because if the same misinformation keeps being peddled, more people will be lulled into believing it? I know we live in a post truth age, but I appeal to people not to believe articles like this who twist (spin) data to misrepresent what is actually happening. Yes, UK exports to the EU in 2021 are lower than 2018, but this article prints a fraction of the full facts. Since 2016 we have been bombarded with forecasts of doom and gloom about Brexit, but the reality is the UK is performing economically just as well since Brexit as at least half the other G7 countries. See my last review on page 1,464. Since leaving the EU we are being constantly told all the UK's problems are down to Brexit, but other countries have the same problems and in many cases worse then the UK. There are now repeated claims that the economy is worse than it would have been had the UK stayed in the EU with no concrete evidence of that as a fact. We are being repeatedly subjected to misleading headlines such as: "Manufacturing growth grinds to halt as Brexit bites". www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/manufacturing-growth-grinds-to-halt-as-brexit-bites-324826/The next line of the article stated : " The UK's manufacturing growth has plunged to its lowest level since October." In successive sentences the article proceeds to use the words "plunged", "slowed", "struggled to keep up its growth" and "weaker growth in demand" and mentions troubled supply chains, rising costs and the war in Ukraine. So what is all this about? Answer: the S&P Global/CIPS UK Manufacturing Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) was 54.6 in May, down from 55.8 in April. (Anything above 50 means that the manufacturing sector is growing in the UK. If the score falls below 50 it is shrinking.) The rest of the article talks about the fall in the index number in a foreboding tone, but no context is given. So how bad is 54.6 on the index? During the last 13 years the index has only been consistently above 55 for four periods in 2010-2011, mid 2013 to mid 2014, 2017, and since the recovery from the pandemic in 2021, during which it peaked to its highest level ever. During all the other years since 2008, i.e. most of the time, the index has been below 55, and for over three of those years below 50. tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-pmiIt is stretching beyond credibility to suggest that the PMI dropping below 55 means " Manufacturing growth grinds to halt as Brexit bites" for even the most ardent anti-Brexiteer/Remainer. Which is why I said 'OR' in capital letters. It was a riposte to the misleading and reductive £615m per week. The first point being anyone can come up with an angle to suit their purpose if they want to and the second being that it's a debate that's not going away anytime soon.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 14, 2022 13:18:38 GMT
Is Brexit 'done'?
Interesting that the sole Tory leadership candidate to vote against May's Brexit deal, Suella Braverman, is likely to disappear from the running shortly.
Even arch-Brexiteers like Rees-Mogg, Duncan-Smith and Mark Francois are now behind Liz Truss, who backed Remain. (She's since become something of a euro-sceptic but, in reality, that's probably as convictionless as Bozo's stance on Europe).
Hmmm, perhaps the reality is starting to kick in and all that's left now is a slow, steady and no doubt quiet acceptance of the need to make the best of a very bad hand by aligning more and more with the EU? Makes sense. Now that we have actually left the EU, and no-one in the country wants to hear about it anymore, why continue to pursue such evidently self-destructive policies in the name of political ideology? Who really cares if, ultimately, we're out in name only if it benefits Britain overall? A few on here perhaps but most people will go back to not giving a shit about it, just like it was back in 2010.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 14, 2022 13:59:35 GMT
I think you'll find Mark Francois has bigger issues to worry about 🤔
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Post by wannabee on Jul 14, 2022 22:42:29 GMT
It's taken a Freedom of Information request by the Labour Party for the Government to Officially reveal what anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew that the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand will harm UK Farming and Food Processing and will further put UK Food Security further in danger The shameful thing is that the Impact Assessment was prepared and known to Liz Truss before the signing of these Trade Agreements Remember Liz is one of The Famous Five jockeying to become the next PM on a platform of not being Boris and won't tell lies. I can only assume that Liz sees herself as the Anne character noted for letting her tongue run away with herself www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2022 7:12:50 GMT
It's taken a Freedom of Information request by the Labour Party for the Government to Officially reveal what anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew that the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand will harm UK Farming and Food Processing and will further put UK Food Security further in danger The shameful thing is that the Impact Assessment was prepared and known to Liz Truss before the signing of these Trade Agreements Remember Liz is one of The Famous Five jockeying to become the next PM on a platform of not being Boris and won't tell lies. I can only assume that Liz sees herself as the Anne character noted for letting her tongue run away with herself www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/There is something deeply ironic about agriculture and food being fucked over the most. It'd be blackly funny if it wasn't so head-shakingly moronic, given that farmers were generally quite keen on Brexit and tend to vote Tory.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 15, 2022 11:33:44 GMT
It's taken a Freedom of Information request by the Labour Party for the Government to Officially reveal what anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew that the Trade Deals with Australia and New Zealand will harm UK Farming and Food Processing and will further put UK Food Security further in danger The shameful thing is that the Impact Assessment was prepared and known to Liz Truss before the signing of these Trade Agreements Remember Liz is one of The Famous Five jockeying to become the next PM on a platform of not being Boris and won't tell lies. I can only assume that Liz sees herself as the Anne character noted for letting her tongue run away with herself www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-uk-food-sector-australia-new-zealand-trade-deal/amp/There is something deeply ironic about agriculture and food being fucked over the most. It'd be blackly funny if it wasn't so head-shakingly moronic, given that farmers were generally quite keen on Brexit and tend to vote Tory. Once again you seem to be dismissive of Miss Truss's triumph and just how much this 'great deal' will contribute to the UK economy. About half the cost of refurbishing the House of Commons last time I looked.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 15, 2022 12:19:48 GMT
There is something deeply ironic about agriculture and food being fucked over the most. It'd be blackly funny if it wasn't so head-shakingly moronic, given that farmers were generally quite keen on Brexit and tend to vote Tory. Once again you seem to be dismissive of Miss Truss's triumph and just how much this 'great deal' will contribute to the UK economy. About half the cost of refurbishing the House of Commons last time I looked. I'm just surprised she hasn't driven her Tank to Kyiv to Liberate Ukraine images.app.goo.gl/fpVsPN6EfQ8AyfHM8
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 15, 2022 12:24:47 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 16, 2022 8:23:17 GMT
Liz Truss used government jet for its intended purpose, the £500k is also a load of rubbish as the majority of that is the lease of the plane you pay whether used or not.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 16, 2022 8:41:16 GMT
Liz Truss used government jet for its intended purpose, the £500k is also a load of rubbish as the majority of that is the lease of the plane you pay whether used or not. Don’t lease the plane then. No comments on the appalling trade deals referred to?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 16, 2022 9:16:12 GMT
Liz Truss used government jet for its intended purpose, the £500k is also a load of rubbish as the majority of that is the lease of the plane you pay whether used or not. Don’t lease the plane then. No comments on the appalling trade deals referred to? COP26 is for little people
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 16, 2022 9:58:23 GMT
Liz Truss used government jet for its intended purpose, the £500k is also a load of rubbish as the majority of that is the lease of the plane you pay whether used or not. Don’t lease the plane then. No comments on the appalling trade deals referred to? Yes lets be the only country in the world without a government plane and what appalling trade are referred to ?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 16, 2022 13:58:40 GMT
Don’t lease the plane then. No comments on the appalling trade deals referred to? Yes lets be the only country in the world without a government plane and what appalling trade are referred to ? Read the thread.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 20, 2022 11:48:01 GMT
More lowered standards post-Brexit?
One benefit of Brexit predicted by Michael Gove and others was that the UK would become a beacon of farm animal welfare. Really?
It has taken the European parliament's recent decision to ban caged egg production entirely to prompt a petition calling for the same thing here. Signed by 109,000 it was debated in parliament last week. Farms minister, Victoria Prentis promised a consultation on a cage ban, without saying when. Her reticence might be to do with lobbying by the British Egg Industry Council which argues that a market-driven approach would be better than a ban, and that consumers are more motivated by price than animal welfare.
The BEIC also says that Brexit opens the door to cheap imports from places like India whose huge industry uses the barren cages that were banned in the EU over a decade ago.
That the Uk is in danger of becoming a laggard rather than a beacon of animal welfare should come as no surprise. There was always the contradiction in the Brexit rhetoric that it would be possible to improve farm animal welfare at the same time as pursuing free trade agreements.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 21, 2022 17:04:48 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 22, 2022 11:29:24 GMT
"However, given this is a multi-decade liability, the variables used in this forecast will continue to fluctuate up and down. The agreed scope of the underlying liability remains unchanged, and the UK will continue to pay those liabilities as they come due, according to the actual value at the time". Just how long are we to continue paying £40-odd bn a year for the privilege of being £80bn a year worse off? "They can go whistle". Almost makes you nostalgic for the lies, doesn't it
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 22, 2022 12:18:06 GMT
"However, given this is a multi-decade liability, the variables used in this forecast will continue to fluctuate up and down. The agreed scope of the underlying liability remains unchanged, and the UK will continue to pay those liabilities as they come due, according to the actual value at the time". Just how long are we to continue paying £40-odd bn a year for the privilege of being £80bn a year worse off? "They can go whistle". Almost makes you nostalgic for the lies, doesn't it You're right , it shouldn't have got this far. We should have had the referendum before Maastricht. Denis wouldn't have paid them a penny. Perhaps we needed a Labour Brexit government, that actually believed it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 22, 2022 12:46:37 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 22, 2022 15:22:47 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 23, 2022 9:14:23 GMT
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Post by richie22 on Jul 23, 2022 10:09:11 GMT
the passport check booths at Dover were always there, pre -brexit they would have French nationale police in the booths on 2 or 3 days of the week. These guys would look at your passport, scan it and send you on your way. At present, this isn’t happening as it should, this week for example , Tuesday afternoon , I got simply waved thru to check in… the issue this last two days is that the French have decided to suddenly create a staffing issue. A colleague of mine went thru those booths Thursday morning and only two were open … I believe Friday 6 out of 14 staff (French) showed up for work. A scandal , I would say deliberate from the frogs ! It should be said that this time a month ago you would regular see 10+ French staff in those booths in a period that could be best called off peak travel time. I don’t get the whole ‘it’s a brexit thing’ …. It simply isn’t , same as those brexit checks at port. I’ve still yet to see what these are . It’s all done before arrival at the port electronically …… the French being arses is what they are good at .
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 23, 2022 10:42:51 GMT
the passport check booths at Dover were always there, pre -brexit they would have French nationale police in the booths on 2 or 3 days of the week. These guys would look at your passport, scan it and send you on your way. At present, this isn’t happening as it should, this week for example , Tuesday afternoon , I got simply waved thru to check in… the issue this last two days is that the French have decided to suddenly create a staffing issue. A colleague of mine went thru those booths Thursday morning and only two were open … I believe Friday 6 out of 14 staff (French) showed up for work. A scandal , I would say deliberate from the frogs ! It should be said that this time a month ago you would regular see 10+ French staff in those booths in a period that could be best called off peak travel time. I don’t get the whole ‘it’s a brexit thing’ …. It simply isn’t , same as those brexit checks at port. I’ve still yet to see what these are . It’s all done before arrival at the port electronically …… the French being arses is what they are good at . Pre brexit it wasn’t bad. Post brexit, where we have much worse relations with the EU as a result of brexit and the way we are trying to wriggle out of the deal we signed and championed, the border situation is much worse. Also passports need more checking now and you get stamps for going in and out of France. Of course it is brexit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 23, 2022 10:53:23 GMT
A similar thing could be said of leave voters. They blamed the EU for everything pre referendum and now won’t blame brexit for any of the bad things that happened since the vote and since we left. Some also seem to be blaming the EU for brexit and the impact which is laughable). I don’t bash the UK (I bash our government because it rightly should be bashed and I of course bash the people who voted for this government). On this thread I now highlight all the problems brexit has led to since which prove my pre referendum posts about the negative impacts of blindly voting for leaving the EU without a plan in place for what comes next, which i posted on this very thread time and again.
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Post by richie22 on Jul 23, 2022 10:56:20 GMT
the passport check booths at Dover were always there, pre -brexit they would have French nationale police in the booths on 2 or 3 days of the week. These guys would look at your passport, scan it and send you on your way. At present, this isn’t happening as it should, this week for example , Tuesday afternoon , I got simply waved thru to check in… the issue this last two days is that the French have decided to suddenly create a staffing issue. A colleague of mine went thru those booths Thursday morning and only two were open … I believe Friday 6 out of 14 staff (French) showed up for work. A scandal , I would say deliberate from the frogs ! It should be said that this time a month ago you would regular see 10+ French staff in those booths in a period that could be best called off peak travel time. I don’t get the whole ‘it’s a brexit thing’ …. It simply isn’t , same as those brexit checks at port. I’ve still yet to see what these are . It’s all done before arrival at the port electronically …… the French being arses is what they are good at . Pre brexit it wasn’t bad. Post brexit, where we have much worse relations with the EU as a result of brexit and the way we are trying to wriggle out of the deal we signed and championed, the border situation is much worse. Also passports need more checking now and you get stamps for going in and out of France. Of course it is brexit. [br Again , I use Dover weekly , many times I’ve gone thru without so much as a glance at my passport, and not to dampen your point , you don’t get a stamp every time.. also there has always been delays around this time of the year, same as there is at Easter … after 9 years of trucking thru Europe you get to notice the patterns , as I made the point in a previous post in the heatwave thread, keen cc & port of Dover prepared for this . The French did nothing, which is what they do best …. There behaviour this week was a scandal, like there ignoring of the migrant issue, a scandal . The chaos that we have seen and in part endured this week is because the frogs like nothing more than to be difficult ..
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 23, 2022 10:59:39 GMT
Pre brexit it wasn’t bad. Post brexit, where we have much worse relations with the EU as a result of brexit and the way we are trying to wriggle out of the deal we signed and championed, the border situation is much worse. Also passports need more checking now and you get stamps for going in and out of France. Of course it is brexit. [br Again , I use Dover weekly , many times I’ve gone thru without so much as a glance at my passport, and not to dampen your point , you don’t get a stamp every time.. also there has always been delays around this time of the year, same as there is at Easter … after 9 years of trucking thru Europe you get to notice the patterns , as I made the point in a previous post in the heatwave thread, keen cc & port of Dover prepared for this . The French did nothing, which is what they do best …. There behaviour this week was a scandal, like there ignoring of the migrant issue, a scandal . The chaos that we have seen and in part endured this week is because the frogs like nothing more than to be difficult .. And why do you think the French are in no mood to help the Brits at the moment? And no need for the casual racism. My wife and kids are French and doing nothing is certainly not what they do best. The French asked the UK government for double the number of posts to do the additional checks they needed a couple of months ago and our government rejected the request. Also, the Chief Exec of the Port of Dover and the union for immigration and borders and customs staff know more than you do and they both blame Brexit: Brexit means security checks taking longer, says port chief Doug Bannister, chief executive of the Port of Dover, has said that extra checks needed since Brexit were causing longer transaction times at border control, after French politician Pierre-Henri Dumont blamed Brexit for the disruption seen on Friday. Bannister told the Today programme: We are operating in a post-Brexit environment which does mean that passports need to be checked, they need to be stamped and indeed the capable people that do man the booths – police aux frontieres – they’re doing their job that they need to do now. He added that the port had “created more border capacity so that the overall throughput can be maintained”, and that their modelling had shown there will be some “very peak busy days during the summer season” but “for the most part we should be able to cope with the traffic”. Earlier, the ISU – the union for borders, immigration and customs staff – also said Brexit was to blame for additional checks.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 23, 2022 11:24:26 GMT
A similar thing could be said of leave voters. They blamed the EU for everything pre referendum and now won’t blame brexit for any of the bad things that happened since the vote and since we left. Some also seem to be blaming the EU for brexit and the impact which is laughable). I don’t bash the UK (I bash our government because it rightly should be bashed and I of course bash the people who voted for this government). On this thread I now highlight all the problems brexit has led to since which prove my pre referendum posts about the negative impacts of blindly voting for leaving the EU without a plan in place for what comes next, which i posted on this very thread time and again. Yes. You are exactly the sort of person I suspect the author of the above piece had in mind. The piece fits you like a glove.
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Post by richie22 on Jul 23, 2022 11:37:55 GMT
[br Again , I use Dover weekly , many times I’ve gone thru without so much as a glance at my passport, and not to dampen your point , you don’t get a stamp every time.. also there has always been delays around this time of the year, same as there is at Easter … after 9 years of trucking thru Europe you get to notice the patterns , as I made the point in a previous post in the heatwave thread, keen cc & port of Dover prepared for this . The French did nothing, which is what they do best …. There behaviour this week was a scandal, like there ignoring of the migrant issue, a scandal . The chaos that we have seen and in part endured this week is because the frogs like nothing more than to be difficult .. And why do you think the French are in no mood to help the Brits at the moment? And no need for the casual racism. My wife and kids are French and doing nothing is certainly not what they do best. The French asked the UK government for double the number of posts to do the additional checks they needed a couple of months ago and our government rejected the request. Also, the Chief Exec of the Port of Dover and the union for immigration and borders and customs staff know more than you do and they both blame Brexit: Brexit means security checks taking longer, says port chief Doug Bannister, chief executive of the Port of Dover, has said that extra checks needed since Brexit were causing longer transaction times at border control, after French politician Pierre-Henri Dumont blamed Brexit for the disruption seen on Friday. Bannister told the Today programme: We are operating in a post-Brexit environment which does mean that passports need to be checked, they need to be stamped and indeed the capable people that do man the booths – police aux frontieres – they’re doing their job that they need to do now. He added that the port had “created more border capacity so that the overall throughput can be maintained”, and that their modelling had shown there will be some “very peak busy days during the summer season” but “for the most part we should be able to cope with the traffic”. Earlier, the ISU – the union for borders, immigration and customs staff – also said Brexit was to blame for additional checks. I will let the port of Dover off with this week as they did put things in place to deal with the expected peak, put please don’t put bannister on a plinth . The port is shockingly run in general. There is many questionable practices that his authority have brought about. But it’s simple facts the French have done very little this week , like they do in and around Calais , we paid for those fences , we pay for there ‘patrols’ at sea. They do little with the migrant issue . But we will no doubt agree to differ on that
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