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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2021 10:40:43 GMT
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that a trade deal with the USA is some time away. Have you been asleep when Obama, Trump, and Biden have been making their pronouncements for the last decade. They, like Johnson, tell potential voters what they want to hear. In their case it is "America first". Fortunately the American people put their love of British products high on their wants list. Trade with America is booming and is set to increase further as, for example, UK food exporters turn away from the EU and all its red tape to North America. There is a view, see ambassador's link attached , that says we are better off without a trade deal and tackle the issues on an individual basis, such as the recent agreement to reduce the tariff on whiskey . Personally I think we should not be too hasty on a deal with the USA. We have excellent rapidly growing trade with them. They want to sell huge amounts of food and pharmaceuticals to us. There is huge inward investment from the USA, why should they continue to do that if they can get free access to our markets from their factories. Once Japan got a trade deal with the EU, they started moving car production back to Japan. I think it is better to bide our time, secure deals with India, New Zealand, other Pacific countries, Mexico, and an improved deal with Canada, which, like the Japan trade deal, will be better for the UK than the deal the EU negotiated. Wait till there is a more amenable American government (Biden won't be around long) or they approach us, or seek to rejoin the trans Pacific trade organization, that Trump chose to leave. The UK should concentrate in the short term on the big trade prizes in India, Mexico, and Indonesia which offer huge trade potential in the future. India and China have rapidly growing middle classes with disposable income which is just the market that buys our high spec. products and financial services. The annual increase of the populations of the middle class of China and India is greater than the total population of the middle class of Europe. chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 24, 2021 10:53:37 GMT
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that a trade deal with the USA is some time away. Have you been asleep when Obama, Trump, and Biden have been making their pronouncements for the last decade. They, like Johnson, tell potential voters what they want to hear. In their case it is "America first". Fortunately the American people put their love of British products high on their wants list. Trade with America is booming and is set to increase further as, for example, UK food exporters turn away from the EU and all its red tape to North America. There is a view, see ambassador's link attached , that says we are better off without a trade deal and tackle the issues on an individual basis, such as the recent agreement to reduce the tariff on whiskey . Personally I think we should not be too hasty on a deal with the USA. We have excellent rapidly growing trade with them. They want to sell huge amounts of food and pharmaceuticals to us. There is huge inward investment from the USA, why should they continue to do that if they can get free access to our markets from their factories. Once Japan got a trade deal with the EU, they started moving car production back to Japan. I think it is better to bide our time, secure deals with India, New Zealand, other Pacific countries, Mexico, and an improved deal with Canada, which, like the Japan trade deal, will be better for the UK than the deal the EU negotiated. Wait till there is a more amenable American government (Biden won't be around long) or they approach us, or seek to rejoin the trans Pacific trade organization, that Trump chose to leave. The UK should concentrate in the short term on the big trade prizes in India, Mexico, and Indonesia which offer huge trade potential in the future. India and China have rapidly growing middle classes with disposable income which is just the market that buys our high spec. products and financial services. The annual increase of the populations of the middle class of China and India is greater than the total population of the middle class of Europe. chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/So we should sign up with China, endorse our tacit support for their aggression in the pacific and appalling human rights record and increase our CO2 output with uneccessarily long freight journies rather than trading with our nearest neighbours where human rights are enshrined and peace it all but guaranteed.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 24, 2021 10:53:40 GMT
It's a crank operation and I say that as someone who purchased its founders book Beyond Contempt about phone hacking, its funded by subscribers like huddy who pay for their sub-standard six degrees of kevin bacon journalism that mainly just links something bad with someone who might know someone who is a Tory type bollocks. But as long as they throw in the Trump / Tommy you wont hear this on MSM stuff they all lap it up. I'm not a subscriber and they are far more accurate than your paymasters at CCHQ or Guido. Skawkbox and the Canary more your thing, byline are so accurate they set up their own press regulator and still got ruled against. The fact remains byline have not broken a single story of substance its just a partisan grift funded by people who still think change is coming, guido although predominately right wing breaks actual stories on all parties and has actual reporters which is the reason so many have moved onto msm whereas byline are left peddling sub standard six degrees of kevin bacon journalism.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2021 11:23:40 GMT
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that a trade deal with the USA is some time away. Have you been asleep when Obama, Trump, and Biden have been making their pronouncements for the last decade. They, like Johnson, tell potential voters what they want to hear. In their case it is "America first". Fortunately the American people put their love of British products high on their wants list. Trade with America is booming and is set to increase further as, for example, UK food exporters turn away from the EU and all its red tape to North America. There is a view, see ambassador's link attached , that says we are better off without a trade deal and tackle the issues on an individual basis, such as the recent agreement to reduce the tariff on whiskey . Personally I think we should not be too hasty on a deal with the USA. We have excellent rapidly growing trade with them. They want to sell huge amounts of food and pharmaceuticals to us. There is huge inward investment from the USA, why should they continue to do that if they can get free access to our markets from their factories. Once Japan got a trade deal with the EU, they started moving car production back to Japan. I think it is better to bide our time, secure deals with India, New Zealand, other Pacific countries, Mexico, and an improved deal with Canada, which, like the Japan trade deal, will be better for the UK than the deal the EU negotiated. Wait till there is a more amenable American government (Biden won't be around long) or they approach us, or seek to rejoin the trans Pacific trade organization, that Trump chose to leave. The UK should concentrate in the short term on the big trade prizes in India, Mexico, and Indonesia which offer huge trade potential in the future. India and China have rapidly growing middle classes with disposable income which is just the market that buys our high spec. products and financial services. The annual increase of the populations of the middle class of China and India is greater than the total population of the middle class of Europe. chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/So we should sign up with China, endorse our tacit support for their aggression in the pacific and appalling human rights record and increase our CO2 output with uneccessarily long freight journies rather than trading with our nearest neighbours where human rights are enshrined and peace it all but guaranteed. Where did I say "we should sign up with China"? I am opposed to supporting that regime unlike the EU Commission which set up an investment agreement with China. I have never proposed a trade deal with them or Russia. In fact in the latter case we should secure our own metallurgical coal in Cumbria, instead of buying it from Russia and elsewhere. But neither do I believe we should thumb our noses at them. If they want to buy from us and invest in us like Saudi Arabia then I'm not opposed to that. The only way to soften such regimes is to trade with them and progressively influence them. But at the same time, we should not allow ourselves to become dependant on them, the way the EU is in the hands of Russia for gas supply. Freight journies is irrelevant; the energy used by ships carrying containers per unit of product is minimal. When we bought coal from Australia to Teesside steelworks, the transport cost was lower than from Co Durham because fuel cost per tonne is so much lower. The vast amount of our exports are services and sophisticated products. We don't export bulk matarials. Neither do I propose we stop trading with the EU. We have a free trade agreement, but our exports to the EU have grown miserably for decades. There is no future significant growth in exporting to the EU which is a mature market. Treding with the RoW does not lead to loss of peace in Europe.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 24, 2021 12:00:29 GMT
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that a trade deal with the USA is some time away. Have you been asleep when Obama, Trump, and Biden have been making their pronouncements for the last decade. They, like Johnson, tell potential voters what they want to hear. In their case it is "America first". Fortunately the American people put their love of British products high on their wants list. Trade with America is booming and is set to increase further as, for example, UK food exporters turn away from the EU and all its red tape to North America. There is a view, see ambassador's link attached , that says we are better off without a trade deal and tackle the issues on an individual basis, such as the recent agreement to reduce the tariff on whiskey . Personally I think we should not be too hasty on a deal with the USA. We have excellent rapidly growing trade with them. They want to sell huge amounts of food and pharmaceuticals to us. There is huge inward investment from the USA, why should they continue to do that if they can get free access to our markets from their factories. Once Japan got a trade deal with the EU, they started moving car production back to Japan. I think it is better to bide our time, secure deals with India, New Zealand, other Pacific countries, Mexico, and an improved deal with Canada, which, like the Japan trade deal, will be better for the UK than the deal the EU negotiated. Wait till there is a more amenable American government (Biden won't be around long) or they approach us, or seek to rejoin the trans Pacific trade organization, that Trump chose to leave. The UK should concentrate in the short term on the big trade prizes in India, Mexico, and Indonesia which offer huge trade potential in the future. India and China have rapidly growing middle classes with disposable income which is just the market that buys our high spec. products and financial services. The annual increase of the populations of the middle class of China and India is greater than the total population of the middle class of Europe. chinapower.csis.org/china-middle-class/So we should sign up with China, endorse our tacit support for their aggression in the pacific and appalling human rights record and increase our CO2 output with uneccessarily long freight journies rather than trading with our nearest neighbours where human rights are enshrined and peace it all but guaranteed. This......
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Post by thevoid on Sept 24, 2021 12:11:47 GMT
You'd think a reporter worth their salt would be able to spell Kelly correctly too- or at least employ a spell checker.... Does the byline times actually use journalist Or are they just raving left wing loons using there spare bedrooms Beyond Huddy's regular links I can genuinely say that I've never heard of them.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 24, 2021 12:25:25 GMT
So we should sign up with China, endorse our tacit support for their aggression in the pacific and appalling human rights record and increase our CO2 output with uneccessarily long freight journies rather than trading with our nearest neighbours where human rights are enshrined and peace it all but guaranteed. Where did I say "we should sign up with China"? I am opposed to supporting that regime unlike the EU Commission which set up an investment agreement with China. I have never proposed a trade deal with them or Russia. In fact in the latter case we should secure our own metallurgical coal in Cumbria, instead of buying it from Russia and elsewhere. But neither do I believe we should thumb our noses at them. If they want to buy from us and invest in us like Saudi Arabia then I'm not opposed to that. The only way to soften such regimes is to trade with them and progressively influence them. But at the same time, we should not allow ourselves to become dependant on them, the way the EU is in the hands of Russia for gas supply. Freight journies is irrelevant; the energy used by ships carrying containers per unit of product is minimal. When we bought coal from Australia to Teesside steelworks, the transport cost was lower than from Co Durham because fuel cost per tonne is so much lower. The vast amount of our exports are services and sophisticated products. We don't export bulk matarials. Neither do I propose we stop trading with the EU. We have a free trade agreement, but our exports to the EU have grown miserably for decades. There is no future significant growth in exporting to the EU which is a mature market. Treding with the RoW does not lead to loss of peace in Europe. Why mention them then - apart from their ever growing population of potential consumers which is itself an existential threat. And shipping is not irrelevent. It's a filthy mode of transport. grist.org/transportation/cargo-ships-are-cleaning-up-smog-by-dumping-pollution-into-the-seas/You need to stop falling back on your Teeside days. We'll soon waste any dubious CO2 savings several times over that we may or may not gain from the environmental vandalism that is HS2 if the focus of our expansion becomes tbe other side of tbe world.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2021 13:31:59 GMT
Where did I say "we should sign up with China"? I am opposed to supporting that regime unlike the EU Commission which set up an investment agreement with China. I have never proposed a trade deal with them or Russia. In fact in the latter case we should secure our own metallurgical coal in Cumbria, instead of buying it from Russia and elsewhere. But neither do I believe we should thumb our noses at them. If they want to buy from us and invest in us like Saudi Arabia then I'm not opposed to that. The only way to soften such regimes is to trade with them and progressively influence them. But at the same time, we should not allow ourselves to become dependant on them, the way the EU is in the hands of Russia for gas supply. Freight journies is irrelevant; the energy used by ships carrying containers per unit of product is minimal. When we bought coal from Australia to Teesside steelworks, the transport cost was lower than from Co Durham because fuel cost per tonne is so much lower. The vast amount of our exports are services and sophisticated products. We don't export bulk matarials. Neither do I propose we stop trading with the EU. We have a free trade agreement, but our exports to the EU have grown miserably for decades. There is no future significant growth in exporting to the EU which is a mature market. Treding with the RoW does not lead to loss of peace in Europe. Why mention them then - apart from their ever growing population of potential consumers which is itself an existential threat. And shipping is not irrelevent. It's a filthy mode of transport. grist.org/transportation/cargo-ships-are-cleaning-up-smog-by-dumping-pollution-into-the-seas/You need to stop falling back on your Teeside days. We'll soon waste any dubious CO2 savings several times over that we may or may not gain from the environmental vandalism that is HS2 if the focus of our expansion becomes tbe other side of tbe world. I quoted my Teesside experience to demonstrate that energy consumption of huge container ships and bulk carriers (e.g. 250,000 tonnes coal ships) is small per tonne compared to lorries. India has a rapidly growing population and will become the largest nation on the planet by 2030. China have curtailed their population growth, but more than other countries have expansionist plans. I mentioned rapidly growing middle class population in India and China as those countries GDP grows rapidly. The poor people of those countries don't buy a lot from the UK, with the exception of Premier League TV! There will be more energy efficient ships in the future including sails and hydrogen power. We export very little bulk or heavy goods, and you forget that ships have to go both ways. Would you prefer that ships come from China with goods and go back empty, or with exports? > 90% of future economic expansion is outside of the EU. Pre pandemic our balance of payments with the EU has been growing for two decades reaching over £60 billion pa. How bad does it have to get? If we want a higher standard of living and first class social services, health, education, etc. we have to pay our way in the world not have a massive trade deficit with the EU. Why are remainers so anti British? You seem to not want trade with China but ignore what happens in the EU. Germany is the largest economy in the EU, located in the centre of the EU, and its largest trading partner is China. www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Foreign-Trade/_node.htmlWhy is it that Merkel rushed through an investment agreement with China before she gave up the presidency of the EU Council? Because that is what the Commission and German commerce wanted. Fortunately the EU Parliament has so far refused to approve the deal. But we all know the Commission will get their way as they have with feeding chicken waste to livestock, risking the return of mad cows desease. Another benefit of leaving the EU. Money rules in the EU which is why the agriculture lobby has overturned the proposals to green the CAP. The EU is corrupt and rotten. Our politicians aren't much better although even they would not dare to do what the EU Commission has done or tried to do. Look at the debacle of vaccine procurement. This MB is full of criticism of British politicians but at least we can remove them. If the Foreign Secretary messes up, he loses his job, not Van der Leyen.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 24, 2021 14:18:53 GMT
Why mention them then - apart from their ever growing population of potential consumers which is itself an existential threat. And shipping is not irrelevent. It's a filthy mode of transport. grist.org/transportation/cargo-ships-are-cleaning-up-smog-by-dumping-pollution-into-the-seas/You need to stop falling back on your Teeside days. We'll soon waste any dubious CO2 savings several times over that we may or may not gain from the environmental vandalism that is HS2 if the focus of our expansion becomes tbe other side of tbe world. I quoted my Teesside experience to demonstrate that energy consumption of huge container ships and bulk carriers (e.g. 250,000 tonnes coal ships) is small per tonne compared to lorries. India has a rapidly growing population and will become the largest nation on the planet by 2030. China have curtailed their population growth, but more than other countries have expansionist plans. I mentioned rapidly growing middle class population in India and China as those countries GDP grows rapidly. The poor people of those countries don't buy a lot from the UK, with the exception of Premier League TV! There will be more energy efficient ships in the future including sails and hydrogen power. We export very little bulk or heavy goods, and you forget that ships have to go both ways. Would you prefer that ships come from China with goods and go back empty, or with exports? > 90% of future economic expansion is outside of the EU. Pre pandemic our balance of payments with the EU has been growing for two decades reaching over £60 billion pa. How bad does it have to get? If we want a higher standard of living and first class social services, health, education, etc. we have to pay our way in the world not have a massive trade deficit with the EU. Why are remainers so anti British? You seem to not want trade with China but ignore what happens in the EU. Germany is the largest economy in the EU, located in the centre of the EU, and its largest trading partner is China. www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Foreign-Trade/_node.htmlWhy is it that Merkel rushed through an investment agreement with China before she gave up the presidency of the EU Council? Because that is what the Commission and German commerce wanted. Fortunately the EU Parliament has so far refused to approve the deal. But we all know the Commission will get their way as they have with feeding chicken waste to livestock, risking the return of mad cows desease. Another benefit of leaving the EU. Money rules in the EU which is why the agriculture lobby has overturned the proposals to green the CAP. The EU is corrupt and rotten. Our politicians aren't much better although even they would not dare to do what the EU Commission has done or tried to do. Look at the debacle of vaccine procurement. This MB is full of criticism of British politicians but at least we can remove them. If the Foreign Secretary messes up, he loses his job, not Van der Leyen. More nonsense Mr Coke? Von der Leyen can be removed - by a vote of no confidence from elected representatives - which is arguably more democratic than our Foreign Secretary being removed by the whim of one man (or corrupt or incompetent ministers staying in post at the whim of one man - or conscienscious MP's having the whip withdrawn at the whim of the same man for having the temerity to -er - disagree with him in a 'democracy'). Neither can be removed from post by plebicite. And I've absolutely no idea who voted for cabinet member 'Lord' Frost. I can't speak for all remainers but I'm not anti British - but nor am I for a 'Britain First ' policy (for as long as Britain remains as an entity - which seems a fairly short term prospect) - as I believe that 'nation state' approach multiplied by 196(?) will just perpetuate anx accelerate the system that's got us to this existential crisis point in future of mankind and that our interests are best served by close collaboration (and yes - compromise) with near neighbours rather than antagonising them. I'm not suggesting the EU is perfect - far from it - and never have - but it's existence is far less of a threat than it's fragmentation would be.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Sept 24, 2021 14:46:55 GMT
Wonder what beautiful benefits Brexit will bring us today? Just going out to hobble around with the dog Blue sky and sunshine by the looks of it Warm up before Mental Gymnastics?
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2021 16:19:07 GMT
I quoted my Teesside experience to demonstrate that energy consumption of huge container ships and bulk carriers (e.g. 250,000 tonnes coal ships) is small per tonne compared to lorries. India has a rapidly growing population and will become the largest nation on the planet by 2030. China have curtailed their population growth, but more than other countries have expansionist plans. I mentioned rapidly growing middle class population in India and China as those countries GDP grows rapidly. The poor people of those countries don't buy a lot from the UK, with the exception of Premier League TV! There will be more energy efficient ships in the future including sails and hydrogen power. We export very little bulk or heavy goods, and you forget that ships have to go both ways. Would you prefer that ships come from China with goods and go back empty, or with exports? > 90% of future economic expansion is outside of the EU. Pre pandemic our balance of payments with the EU has been growing for two decades reaching over £60 billion pa. How bad does it have to get? If we want a higher standard of living and first class social services, health, education, etc. we have to pay our way in the world not have a massive trade deficit with the EU. Why are remainers so anti British? You seem to not want trade with China but ignore what happens in the EU. Germany is the largest economy in the EU, located in the centre of the EU, and its largest trading partner is China. www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Foreign-Trade/_node.htmlWhy is it that Merkel rushed through an investment agreement with China before she gave up the presidency of the EU Council? Because that is what the Commission and German commerce wanted. Fortunately the EU Parliament has so far refused to approve the deal. But we all know the Commission will get their way as they have with feeding chicken waste to livestock, risking the return of mad cows desease. Another benefit of leaving the EU. Money rules in the EU which is why the agriculture lobby has overturned the proposals to green the CAP. The EU is corrupt and rotten. Our politicians aren't much better although even they would not dare to do what the EU Commission has done or tried to do. Look at the debacle of vaccine procurement. This MB is full of criticism of British politicians but at least we can remove them. If the Foreign Secretary messes up, he loses his job, not Van der Leyen. More nonsense Mr Coke? Von der Leyen can be removed - by a vote of no confidence from elected representatives - which is arguably more democratic than our Foreign Secretary being removed by the whim of one man (or corrupt or incompetent ministers staying in post at the whim of one man - or conscienscious MP's having the whip withdrawn at the whim of the same man for having the temerity to -er - disagree with him in a 'democracy'). Neither can be removed from post by plebicite. And I've absolutely no idea who voted for cabinet member 'Lord' Frost. I can't speak for all remainers but I'm not anti British - but nor am I for a 'Britain First ' policy (for as long as Britain remains as an entity - which seems a fairly short term prospect) - as I believe that 'nation state' approach multiplied by 196(?) will just perpetuate anx accelerate the system that's got us to this existential crisis point in future of mankind and that our interests are best served by close collaboration (and yes - compromise) with near neighbours rather than antagonising them. I'm not suggesting the EU is perfect - far from it - and never have - but it's existence is far less of a threat than it's fragmentation would be. (Warning: Don't bother reading this if you believe Brexit has happened and we should move on.) I am not going to get drawn into a debate about the democracy of the British constitution, particularly when we had Heath take the country into the EEC and Major agree to the formation of the EU, both without any reference to the British people. But I find comfort knowing PMs can be replaced and if necessary forced out of post like Thatcher and May. Yes PMs have too much power and can take the country to war as Thatcher and Blair did, but we can comfort ourselves with the knowledge that future UK governments can reverse any decision. The EU is a completely different animal. Established to head down a road to a united states of Europe. Power is dispersed in such a manner that no one can change the direction. Cameron sought an agreement to allow the UK to not go any further down the unification road, but he was told that is not possible. Power is effectively with the unelected Commission who draft all legislation in one direction and are unduly influenced by big business. The movement is like a glacier or lava flow, very slowly moving in one direction which no one can stop or change. The steady flow of regulations and ECOJ decisions means the change is mostly imperceptible. The EU Parliament is a bit like the House of Lords who sit and debate and vote but they don't have any real power except delaying tactics, and there is no majority consensus other than this is a nice gravy train let's not upset anyone. The Council meet behind closed doors wheeling and dealing which they are used to, having mostly come from PR electoral systems where the politicians decide which coalition group will govern, not the people. The decisions are made by Germany and France deciding what to do, and everyone else toes the line. The European committee I chaired for three years was dominated by Germany and most other countries just nodded agreement. I agree fragmentation would not be good, but as long as the "centre" of the EU enjoys all the benefits while the peripheral nations have little say and suffer unemployment and huge national debts, pressures will build up to breaking point. Then there is the stress between those nations that maintain fiscal prudence and those that don't. Then there is the division between those who want an EU armed force and nations like Ireland, Sweden, and Denmark who have traditionally maintained neutrality. I don't expect fragmentation to happen soon. The EU Pandemic Recovery Fund is effectively a step towards fiscal union where the Commission will control individual national budgets. By controlling the release of recovery funds, the Commission will effectively control each country's budget. They already control VAT and will gradually set rules on Corporation Tax and ultimately income tax. Member countries debt will be such that they are trapped into the Union, unable to find the cost of leaving. I am all in favour of close collaboration of sovereign states as the UK has had with Ireland for a century. There is no reason there cannot be a free trade area of Europe without having to have a mobile Parliament, loads of institutions like ECOJ, Frankfurt, embassies. etc., and enjoy reciprocal agreements between nations. There are plenty of pan European organizations not governed by the EU; we don't need or, for most people, want, a European government.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 24, 2021 16:25:30 GMT
It is interesting that N Ireland was the only part of the UK not to suffer with the CO2 shortage… Brexit is not necessarily to blame for the petrol, food and CO2 shortage, it is Boris Johnson’s ideological brexit that is to blame, that prioritised racist views above everything else. If we had stayed in the single market we would not have many of the issues we face today, and we would have more valuable trade deals in place than we do now.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 24, 2021 16:40:04 GMT
It is interesting that N Ireland was the only part of the UK not to suffer with the CO2 shortage… Brexit is not necessarily to blame for the petrol, food and CO2 shortage, it is Boris Johnson’s ideological brexit that is to blame, that prioritised racist views above everything else. If we had stayed in the single market we would not have many of the issues we face today, and we would have more valuable trade deals in place than we do now. You forgot to mention the bus for your full house in bullshit remain bingo, staying in the single market is basically staying in the EU how can you not know that after 1400+ pages.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 24, 2021 17:05:44 GMT
It is interesting that N Ireland was the only part of the UK not to suffer with the CO2 shortage… Brexit is not necessarily to blame for the petrol, food and CO2 shortage, it is Boris Johnson’s ideological brexit that is to blame, that prioritised racist views above everything else. If we had stayed in the single market we would not have many of the issues we face today, and we would have more valuable trade deals in place than we do now. You forgot to mention the bus for your full house in bullshit remain bingo, staying in the single market is basically staying in the EU how can you not know that after 1400+ pages. I missed you FYD. Forever incapable of debate and only capable of insult and blind unwavering loyalty to a racist ideology. Google EEA and educate yourself about the difference between EU membership and single market membership. Anyway, even though the government insists immigration rules following brexit are absolutely nothing to do with the lorry driver shortages, Johnson is about to U turn (again) and announce the relaxation of immigration rules for lorry drivers. But the shortages are nothing to do with brexit…..
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 24, 2021 17:17:59 GMT
Just going out to hobble around with the dog Blue sky and sunshine by the looks of it Warm up before Mental Gymnastics? No the dog just sulks like hell If he doesn’t get out for his morning walk
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 24, 2021 20:25:42 GMT
You forgot to mention the bus for your full house in bullshit remain bingo, staying in the single market is basically staying in the EU how can you not know that after 1400+ pages. I missed you FYD. Forever incapable of debate and only capable of insult and blind unwavering loyalty to a racist ideology. Google EEA and educate yourself about the difference between EU membership and single market membership. Anyway, even though the government insists immigration rules following brexit are absolutely nothing to do with the lorry driver shortages, Johnson is about to U turn (again) and announce the relaxation of immigration rules for lorry drivers. But the shortages are nothing to do with brexit….. It takes some brass neck to claim to be engaging in debate without insult whilst wittering on about how leaving a trading block is somehow racist. I have no need to google EEA I voted to leave because I wanted to leave, EEA membership would have involved paying membership fees and following EU laws thats not leaving its already been discussed. I voted to leave the EU we did so I am quite happy, bit perplexed how the UK immigration policy which is now the same as 95% of the rest of the world is somehow racist or how I am loyal to some racist ideology, I get bored of saying this I really dont give a fuck about immigration one way or the other, I did say despite the denials it was obvious free movement had kept down wages and what do you know thats being proved right. Whats a u turn pretty certain it was always said immigration policy could be flexed to allow people with skills the uk was short of to come in short term.
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Post by 4372 on Sept 24, 2021 21:55:06 GMT
So, now we are struggling to get petrol. This is because some people in the UK did not want people from Eastern Europe to pick strawberries from a field in England. Is that right?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 24, 2021 22:51:06 GMT
Just reading through some of the pages on this, it's quite something. Certain posters blaming brexit for a crisis that is affecting many European (and non European) nations worse than ourselves. You couldn't make it up. In the US they are having huge issues with recruitment. Frankly, I'm surprised the Biden supporting media haven't blamed Trump.
We even had one particularly deranged chap on the radio today who as a hard line lockdown fanatic is now blaming fuel shortages, staff shortages and inflation on Brexit, completely oblivious to the fact that the world has spent over 18 months dropping countless nuclear bombs on the economy and completely shut society down. Anyone would think that might be a contributing factor to the issues we are facing? Yet when questioned on whether he thought shutting down society was the right think to do, he said it was 🤦♂️
In other news when did Karren Brady turn into a hot milf? She's genuinely pretty decent these days. 😍
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 24, 2021 22:54:59 GMT
Oggy have you been on the bloody radio again? 😉
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2021 0:45:29 GMT
Just reading through some of the pages on this, it's quite something. Certain posters blaming brexit for a crisis that is affecting many European (and non European) nations worse than ourselves. You couldn't make it up. In the US they are having huge issues with recruitment. Frankly, I'm surprised the Biden supporting media haven't blamed Trump. We even had one particularly deranged chap on the radio today who as a hard line lockdown fanatic is now blaming fuel shortages, staff shortages and inflation on Brexit, completely oblivious to the fact that the world has spent over 18 months dropping countless nuclear bombs on the economy and completely shut society down. Anyone would think that might be a contributing factor to the issues we are facing? Yet when questioned on whether he thought shutting down society was the right think to do, he said it was 🤦♂️ In other news when did Karren Brady turn into a hot milf? She's genuinely pretty decent these days. 😍 Those issues with recruitment are very specific to certain industries though. The service and hospitality industry makes up a huge portion of the American workforce and a lot of those who struggled through it have got other jobs. Couple that with the fact that Covid here is far worse than the U.K. and you have yourself a problem recruiting. The full economic consequences of Brexit will take time to decipher. I’m sure the U.K. will carve themselves a path, if be surprised if they did one that was as impressive as it could have been.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2021 0:49:05 GMT
Just reading through some of the pages on this, it's quite something. Certain posters blaming brexit for a crisis that is affecting many European (and non European) nations worse than ourselves. You couldn't make it up. In the US they are having huge issues with recruitment. Frankly, I'm surprised the Biden supporting media haven't blamed Trump. We even had one particularly deranged chap on the radio today who as a hard line lockdown fanatic is now blaming fuel shortages, staff shortages and inflation on Brexit, completely oblivious to the fact that the world has spent over 18 months dropping countless nuclear bombs on the economy and completely shut society down. Anyone would think that might be a contributing factor to the issues we are facing? Yet when questioned on whether he thought shutting down society was the right think to do, he said it was 🤦♂️ In other news when did Karren Brady turn into a hot milf? She's genuinely pretty decent these days. 😍 On a personal note, I left the U.K. following my PhD in Alzheimer’s as I saw limited funding for my research there and even less general career development in STEM based academia. I recently caught up with a former colleague who has a top journal paper list better than my 40year+ boss. He cannot get professorship in the U.K. which means that despite his brilliance, he’s unlikely to lead groups and build upon what he has found anytime soon. He’s one of many ive spoken to about this. It is just one industry, but it is a big growth industry that’s massively affected by Brexit.
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Post by toppercorner on Sept 25, 2021 7:26:00 GMT
Thank you Huddy, but we can all search the internet to find a story that suits our agenda. If you google Paul Kelly turkey farmer you will find masses of stuff. A man who has built up a huge business exploiting low paid workers and possibly made a fortune with his brand Kellybronze. Kelly has also been peddling the story about Christmas shortage due to a CO2 shortage, due to an energy shortage that is a European wide issue as industry surges out of the pandemic and there has to be maintenance of gas plants postponed during the pandemic. uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/turkeys-wont-christmas-menu-co2-161259362.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANEZQAgSqPu-P3Ad8tVZOWY7g-9pnDq0Fme8YeKHnxGLKVLHPIoEgeu4xvz2US_Pb2QKlT8ABW3qqvUk10VznfjRv0avXX5V7cbyqiHsUeY44wXGN6OQ62QEJ-poOqRYtD-RCAbTowVEypg8zHbPsYzPg5A4879Gui3BKCdqA5EII suggest Mr Kelly is on a mission to sell turkeys, but I draw you attention to this link about this particular turkey farmer. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/turkey-farm-kelly-turkeys-animal-cruelty-christmas-dinner-essex-greenbury-poultry-danbury-rights-welfare-viva-undercover-a7486381.htmlIf he treats his employees the same as he treats turkeys, it isn't surprising no one wants to work for him, would you ? Ask yourself if you would. Can someone on this message board please post how they have personally suffered because of Brexit? I would be interested to know. I must live in a bubble; the only thing I can think that has affected me is that there isn't all those guys washing cars that I used to used, they seem to have all disappeared. I did a huge shop at Tesco on Monday, the shelves were full and nothing was in short supply. I didn't try and buy turkey though, but there were loads of chickens of all sizes corn fed, organic, etc., etc. If we have problems they are due to lorry drivers shortage, discussed on another non Brexit thread, and shortage of labour because the economy is booming and employment is back to pre-pandemic record levels. I have no objection to the government allowing people in if they are going to full fill a need. www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-payrolled-employment-rises-by-record-241000-august-2021-09-14/I suspect some remainers would prefer to hear about unemployment they predicted if we left the EU. I have been affected. My work has been cut by approximately 30/40%, and so has everyone i know in my industry. I travel a lot, and used to work in Europe. It's not going to be financially possible when full travel without restrictions opens up again, due to visa's and carnets. Brexit is the worst idea of all time. Simply mind blowing the short term thinking, and little englander mindset a lot of people have, all because they have been conned by crooks like Farage, and taken in by clowns like Boris Johnson. You only have to look at BJ's physical appearance when he's in international PM mode. He combs his hair, he makes an effort with his suits and ties etc, the complete opposite of how he presents himself here. It is all a stage act with us, as he thinks the British Public are gullible idiots who are easily swayed by his laughably 'funny' hair and a Benny Hill approach to dressing. He's taking the piss out of the electorate, and sadly, most have fallen for it.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 25, 2021 7:27:12 GMT
Just reading through some of the pages on this, it's quite something. Certain posters blaming brexit for a crisis that is affecting many European (and non European) nations worse than ourselves. You couldn't make it up. In the US they are having huge issues with recruitment. Frankly, I'm surprised the Biden supporting media haven't blamed Trump. We even had one particularly deranged chap on the radio today who as a hard line lockdown fanatic is now blaming fuel shortages, staff shortages and inflation on Brexit, completely oblivious to the fact that the world has spent over 18 months dropping countless nuclear bombs on the economy and completely shut society down. Anyone would think that might be a contributing factor to the issues we are facing? Yet when questioned on whether he thought shutting down society was the right think to do, he said it was 🤦♂️ In other news when did Karren Brady turn into a hot milf? She's genuinely pretty decent these days. 😍 A survey of road hauliers in this feature has Brexit second in terms of most responses as a factor in the reasons for the driver shortage. Of course Brexiters on here will claim they know more than people running the business . www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58670792As for the pandemic, the timing of that was unforeseen but it was bleedingly obvious that driver testing was stacking up in 2020 (while retirement has been an issue recognised for years ) and yet the government was still happy to forge ahead with its post-Brexit immigration policy this year. Anyway now it seems we're going to try and persuade some Europeans to come and get us out of the shit, whether they will remains to be seen. And they call Starmer Captain Hindsight.....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 25, 2021 7:36:29 GMT
All going a bit shit so far, isn't it...
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Post by toppercorner on Sept 25, 2021 7:39:55 GMT
Just reading through some of the pages on this, it's quite something. Certain posters blaming brexit for a crisis that is affecting many European (and non European) nations worse than ourselves. You couldn't make it up. In the US they are having huge issues with recruitment. Frankly, I'm surprised the Biden supporting media haven't blamed Trump. We even had one particularly deranged chap on the radio today who as a hard line lockdown fanatic is now blaming fuel shortages, staff shortages and inflation on Brexit, completely oblivious to the fact that the world has spent over 18 months dropping countless nuclear bombs on the economy and completely shut society down. Anyone would think that might be a contributing factor to the issues we are facing? Yet when questioned on whether he thought shutting down society was the right think to do, he said it was 🤦♂️ In other news when did Karren Brady turn into a hot milf? She's genuinely pretty decent these days. 😍 A survey of road hauliers in this feature has Brexit second in terms of most responses as a factor in the reasons for the driver shortage. Of course Brexiters on here will claim they know more than people running the business . www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58670792As for the pandemic, the timing of that was unforeseen but it was bleedingly obvious that driver testing was stacking up in 2020 (while retirement has been an issue recognised for years ) and yet the government was still happy to forge ahead with its post-Brexit immigration policy this year. Anyway now it seems we're going to try and persuade some Europeans to come and get us out of the shit, whether they will remains to be seen. And they call Starmer Captain Hindsight..... Don't forget, the government forged ahead with the completely unnecessary introduction of IR35 to punish the self-employed even further. This, I understand also affects many HGV drivers. People like myself who changed company status, on the governments own instruction from sole trader to ltd company, were then told when it came to Self-Employed furlough (SEISS) that were weren't eligible for any financial help as we were new companies, and that 20+ years of being a sole trader accounted for nothing. So I hope people can appreciate what an utter bunch of c*nts the tories are. Billionaire Rishi has also let a company fold whilst owing the taxman over £600K, so we an all see how paying tax doesn't affect him. The most despicable, clueless, corrupt and idiotic government in UK history, and some people still cannot bring themselves to believe they've fucked up by falling for their lies. Fuckng Stockholm Syndrome.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 25, 2021 8:14:32 GMT
Yeah, nothing is Brexit's fault is it?
Relaxing the immigration rules so that more foreigners can come over quicker to do the jobs that Brits ultimately aren't. Couldn't script it. They fuck off, country can't function, we need them back.
How anyone can still defend this shitshow is beyond me, and that applies to the government too.
Have we actually had anything good come out of this yet? Everything seems to be bad news.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 25, 2021 8:25:03 GMT
Yeah, nothing is Brexit's fault is it? Relaxing the immigration rules so that more foreigners can come over quicker to do the jobs that Brits ultimately aren't. Couldn't script it. They fuck off, country can't function, we need them back. How anyone can still defend this shitshow is beyond me, and that applies to the government too. Have we actually had anything good come out of this yet? Everything seems to be bad news. Quite. Completely underlines the fallacy of demonizing foreigners in the way that Leave, and Farage in particular, did so vociferously and regularly during the campaign. Yet reducing foreigners numbers was the number one reason for voting Leave...It's sad how targeting certain sections of society is such an effective vote winner. You'd think people would get this eventually, yet here we are just a few years later with all the same people happily swallowing the same old bullshit about the latest target: all the phoney culture war woke bollocks...
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 25, 2021 8:37:33 GMT
Thank you Huddy, but we can all search the internet to find a story that suits our agenda. If you google Paul Kelly turkey farmer you will find masses of stuff. A man who has built up a huge business exploiting low paid workers and possibly made a fortune with his brand Kellybronze. Kelly has also been peddling the story about Christmas shortage due to a CO2 shortage, due to an energy shortage that is a European wide issue as industry surges out of the pandemic and there has to be maintenance of gas plants postponed during the pandemic. uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/turkeys-wont-christmas-menu-co2-161259362.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANEZQAgSqPu-P3Ad8tVZOWY7g-9pnDq0Fme8YeKHnxGLKVLHPIoEgeu4xvz2US_Pb2QKlT8ABW3qqvUk10VznfjRv0avXX5V7cbyqiHsUeY44wXGN6OQ62QEJ-poOqRYtD-RCAbTowVEypg8zHbPsYzPg5A4879Gui3BKCdqA5EII suggest Mr Kelly is on a mission to sell turkeys, but I draw you attention to this link about this particular turkey farmer. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/turkey-farm-kelly-turkeys-animal-cruelty-christmas-dinner-essex-greenbury-poultry-danbury-rights-welfare-viva-undercover-a7486381.htmlIf he treats his employees the same as he treats turkeys, it isn't surprising no one wants to work for him, would you ? Ask yourself if you would. Can someone on this message board please post how they have personally suffered because of Brexit? I would be interested to know. I must live in a bubble; the only thing I can think that has affected me is that there isn't all those guys washing cars that I used to used, they seem to have all disappeared. I did a huge shop at Tesco on Monday, the shelves were full and nothing was in short supply. I didn't try and buy turkey though, but there were loads of chickens of all sizes corn fed, organic, etc., etc. If we have problems they are due to lorry drivers shortage, discussed on another non Brexit thread, and shortage of labour because the economy is booming and employment is back to pre-pandemic record levels. I have no objection to the government allowing people in if they are going to full fill a need. www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-payrolled-employment-rises-by-record-241000-august-2021-09-14/I suspect some remainers would prefer to hear about unemployment they predicted if we left the EU. I have been affected. My work has been cut by approximately 30/40%, and so has everyone i know in my industry. I travel a lot, and used to work in Europe. It's not going to be financially possible when full travel without restrictions opens up again, due to visa's and carnets. Brexit is the worst idea of all time. Simply mind blowing the short term thinking, and little englander mindset a lot of people have, all because they have been conned by crooks like Farage, and taken in by clowns like Boris Johnson. You only have to look at BJ's physical appearance when he's in international PM mode. He combs his hair, he makes an effort with his suits and ties etc, the complete opposite of how he presents himself here. It is all a stage act with us, as he thinks the British Public are gullible idiots who are easily swayed by his laughably 'funny' hair and a Benny Hill approach to dressing. He's taking the piss out of the electorate, and sadly, most have fallen for it. Thank you for your response. I am sorry to hear that Brexit has affected your work and hope things improve for you. It was always the case that if the UK left the EU, even with a free trade agreement, that there would be those that would be adversely affected. Regarding the rest of your post, I think we all know where Johnson is and what he is like. As a supporter of Brexit, I was afraid he would sell Brexit down the river, having got into power, and do a compromise that May was seeking. I assure you I am not conned by anyone. I will not bore you with my history which i have repeated too often on this MB but through my experience dealing with Europe, I have switched from being a full on supporter in the 1970s to anti membership in the 00s. I was a long time turning because I could also see that there would be adverse impacts from leaving. I am not a "little Englander". The phrase "Global Britain" is in fashion these days. I have always believed that Britain was global. Our strong ties with Commonwealth countries where some of my relatives live, our strong alliance with the USA for over a century, the huge inward investment from USA and India (I worked for Tata the largest manufacturing employer in the UK). Like you I spent a lot of time in Europe and visited IJmuiden countless times having had a boss there. I also had a boss in Paris for 7 years, but always found a closer empathy with the people when visiting North America or India. Despite your personal circumstances, it makes sense to get out of the EU. Most of our trade is with non EU countries, trade with Germany, Ireland etc. is declining, China is now our biggest trading partner, the other world economies are growing rapidly, India's GDP is overtaking us and will soon be the largest population on the planet, Indonesia and Mexico are becoming huge economies, etc. Europe will continue to grow no doubt, but it will be slow and the eastern states like Czechia and Poland will take an increasing share of trade with Germany from Britain. I think the EU will be far slower than the rest of the world to grow out of the pandemic, but that is just my opinion. Hope your job improves, good luck
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 25, 2021 9:32:59 GMT
All going a bit shit so far, isn't it... Yes it is in Romania. Their health service is collapsing due to 43,000 doctors leaving due to freedom of movement in the EU. In post Brexit Britain it is time we stood on our own feet and stop depending on labour from the rest of the EU. Lorry drivers wages are booming apparently, according to this article. www.arcdigital.media/p/the-uks-shortages-are-vindicatingWe will never be totally be sufficient for food, but the way slid into a massive dependancy on Europe is crazy, unable to develop strong supply links from the RoW due to CAP. Yes, we have allowed ourselves to become dependant on labour from east and south Europe, but so have the other core EU countries, but they have gone a step further and put themselves at the mercy of Russia for gas. Booming Britain with employment back to pre pandemic levels is putting a strain on transport services which are struggling to move food and petrol which are in plentiful supply. But extra drivers are available every day and when pay levels are attractive enough, the drivers will be back.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 25, 2021 9:53:51 GMT
All going a bit shit so far, isn't it... Yes it is in Romania. Their health service is collapsing due to 43,000 doctors leaving due to freedom of movement in the EU. I thought you were in favour of immigration to fill the jobs we need filling? Are Romanian doctors now no longer able to come and work in the UK ? I thought you said the driver shortages were due to the pandemic rather than Brexit so why then claim that it is Brexit leading to increased driver wages?
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