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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2021 9:55:22 GMT
I missed you FYD. Forever incapable of debate and only capable of insult and blind unwavering loyalty to a racist ideology. Google EEA and educate yourself about the difference between EU membership and single market membership. Anyway, even though the government insists immigration rules following brexit are absolutely nothing to do with the lorry driver shortages, Johnson is about to U turn (again) and announce the relaxation of immigration rules for lorry drivers. But the shortages are nothing to do with brexit….. It takes some brass neck to claim to be engaging in debate without insult whilst wittering on about how leaving a trading block is somehow racist. I have no need to google EEA I voted to leave because I wanted to leave, EEA membership would have involved paying membership fees and following EU laws thats not leaving its already been discussed. I voted to leave the EU we did so I am quite happy, bit perplexed how the UK immigration policy which is now the same as 95% of the rest of the world is somehow racist or how I am loyal to some racist ideology, I get bored of saying this I really dont give a fuck about immigration one way or the other, I did say despite the denials it was obvious free movement had kept down wages and what do you know thats being proved right. Whats a u turn pretty certain it was always said immigration policy could be flexed to allow people with skills the uk was short of to come in short term. The racist part is the fact that the government will forsake what is good for the country in order to keep out foreigners. What else motivates it when it is so bad for us all!? Why else choose such a self destructive trade policy with by far our biggest trading partners that has been an absolute disaster. The irony is more drivers with altered immigration rules won’t stop the added red tape and bureaucracy that Brexit has caused at borders. The reason deliveries going from Bucharest, to Vienna, to Frankfurt to Paris don’t then come to London now is because of added bureaucracy. So changing immigration rules to allow more drivers in isn’t going to resolve the problems we face and it still means costs of imports that we desperately need will continue to increase. That negatively impacts British businesses and consumers. But obviously you have in your 2 replies to me not addressed any of the issues I raised. You instead declared your unwavering and blind faith and loyalty to Brexit, without actually knowing there is a difference between the EEA and the EU! It is extraordinary that you feel you have anything to say on the topic of brexit when you don’t even know what the EU is!
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 25, 2021 10:16:29 GMT
Yes it is in Romania. Their health service is collapsing due to 43,000 doctors leaving due to freedom of movement in the EU. I thought you were in favour of immigration to fill the jobs we need filling? Are Romanian doctors now no longer able to come and work in the UK ? I thought you said the driver shortages were due to the pandemic rather than Brexit so why then claim that it is Brexit leading to increased driver wages? You really don't get it. Let's try again: I am fully in favour of immigration. I am fully in favour of people coming to the UK to work on a visa to do a specified job we need filling. I am not in favour of EU membership and freedom of movement, where EU citizens can come and go at will, cherry pick jobs, go back to their own country when they feel like it, come briefly to use the NHS, claim benefits for their families back in their own country, avoid tax, etc., etc.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 25, 2021 10:21:46 GMT
I thought you were in favour of immigration to fill the jobs we need filling? Are Romanian doctors now no longer able to come and work in the UK ? I thought you said the driver shortages were due to the pandemic rather than Brexit so why then claim that it is Brexit leading to increased driver wages? You really don't get it. Let's try again: I am fully in favour of immigration. I am fully in favour of people coming to the UK to work on a visa to do a specified job we need filling. I am not in favour of EU membership and freedom of movement, where EU citizens can come and go at will, cherry pick jobs, go back to their own country when they feel like it, come briefly to use the NHS, claim benefits for their families back in their own country, avoid tax, etc., etc. So Romanian doctors can still come and work here on a visa, so Brexit does not stop the migration of doctors from Romania. Do you now agree that Brexit is a significant factor in driver shortages leading to increased wages?
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 25, 2021 11:09:44 GMT
It takes some brass neck to claim to be engaging in debate without insult whilst wittering on about how leaving a trading block is somehow racist. I have no need to google EEA I voted to leave because I wanted to leave, EEA membership would have involved paying membership fees and following EU laws thats not leaving its already been discussed. I voted to leave the EU we did so I am quite happy, bit perplexed how the UK immigration policy which is now the same as 95% of the rest of the world is somehow racist or how I am loyal to some racist ideology, I get bored of saying this I really dont give a fuck about immigration one way or the other, I did say despite the denials it was obvious free movement had kept down wages and what do you know thats being proved right. Whats a u turn pretty certain it was always said immigration policy could be flexed to allow people with skills the uk was short of to come in short term. The racist part is the fact that the government will forsake what is good for the country in order to keep out foreigners. What else motivates it when it is so bad for us all!? Why else choose such a self destructive trade policy with by far our biggest trading partners that has been an absolute disaster. The irony is more drivers with altered immigration rules won’t stop the added red tape and bureaucracy that Brexit has caused at borders. The reason deliveries going from Bucharest, to Vienna, to Frankfurt to Paris don’t then come to London now is because of added bureaucracy. So changing immigration rules to allow more drivers in isn’t going to resolve the problems we face and it still means costs of imports that we desperately need will continue to increase. That negatively impacts British businesses and consumers. But obviously you have in your 2 replies to me not addressed any of the issues I raised. You instead declared your unwavering and blind faith and loyalty to Brexit, without actually knowing there is a difference between the EEA and the EU! It is extraordinary that you feel you have anything to say on the topic of brexit when you don’t even know what the EU is! You are the embodiment of why remain lost you are simply incapable of engaging in a debate without the assumption the other side is stupid or racist. I'd suggest its you who doesn't understand the difference between brexit and the EEA in return for continuing to pay fees, following laws etc you are still not part of the customs union which might make trade move more smoothly so you actually want to pay money for an even worse deal - did you used to work for Theresa May ? There is also no doubt EEA membership would have just been a trojan horse to take us back in on the sly. Keeping out foreigners would be xenophobic not racist and you are in for a shock because I am pretty sure every countries immigration policies deal with keeping out foreigners sherlock, the clue is in the name That would be a government that priortised keeping out foreigners so much it gave 6 million odd "foreigners" the right to live in the uk permanently..... Geography not a strong point either bucherest to vienna etc via London is s bit out of the way old bean, you do realise that EU truckers who come into the UK for a delivery are still able to take jobs within the UK before returning, you wont find that sort of thing reported try listening to Tom Swirback on LBC its quite informative, actual truckers were calling in, they were also explaining about tanker drivers, which has always been higher paid but a bit of a closed shop to go into. I could go on but I'll just point out we left the EU on the 31/1/20 so firstly dry your eyes and secondly ask yourself why did we not experience these shortages immediately its almost like some major event might have taken place which is changing the way business is done (more online) and has caused people to evaluate their lives and some have decided pissing in a bottle is not for them anymore but yeah brexit blah blah blah and you still neec the bus for a full house.
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Post by foster on Sept 25, 2021 12:06:02 GMT
Think we're well past the point of discussing why Brexit happened and should be onto where we go from here.
Brexit is what it is and we should now be discussing what's next, how we handle the current UK issues and also the global climate crisis.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 25, 2021 12:21:03 GMT
You really don't get it. Let's try again: I am fully in favour of immigration. I am fully in favour of people coming to the UK to work on a visa to do a specified job we need filling. I am not in favour of EU membership and freedom of movement, where EU citizens can come and go at will, cherry pick jobs, go back to their own country when they feel like it, come briefly to use the NHS, claim benefits for their families back in their own country, avoid tax, etc., etc. So Romanian doctors can still come and work here on a visa, so Brexit does not stop the migration of doctors from Romania. Do you now agree that Brexit is a significant factor in driver shortages leading to increased wages? Brexit does not stop immigration^ to this country for those who want to come here to settle and contribute to our society. Neither does Brexit stop people obtaining a visa to carry out specific jobs^^ that the government has identified as jobs that need filling in the UK, that includes doctors. ^ immigration: the action of coming to live permanently in a foreign country.- ^^ www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-eligible-occupations-and-codesIf you read the lorry driver thread you will know that I have agreed that Brexit is a factor in the shortage of drivers. How big a factor though I have yet to see a definitive analysis. (1)There was a world wide driver shortage before the pandemic, (2) the pandemic caused people to return to their homelands*, (3) the pandemic stopped training of drivers,(4)the pandemic stopped testing of drivers, (5) a lot of HGV drivers chose not to return to their former lifestyle after the lockdowns, (6) some of those foreign drivers will have chosen not to return to the UK - Brexit or no Brexit, (7) some were unable to return to the UK due to pandemic travel restrictions, lack of vaccination, etc., (8) some will have chosen not to return to the UK because of Brexit, (9) there has bee DVLA strike action that has caused a huge backlog in processing licences, (10) the government introduced tax changes in April to reduce tax avoidance (many migrant workers were not paying tax and then claiming expenses such as travel to and from their homelands) which has dissuaded drivers from continuing to drive, and finally (11) as we have come out of the pandemic there is a huge increase in demand for transport. *(which they would not do if they had settled in the UK unless there were family reasons such as looking after elderly parents like an Indian doctor I know, who then got trapped in India by travel restrictions) I am against freedom of movement practiced by the EU leading to uncontrolled migration. We only carry out a government census each decade to plan resources such as hospitals, schools, etc. With freedom of movement such services can be overloaded, particularly if high migration occurs to a specific region, such as the 25,000 Poles that have moved into Southampton.* By introducing immigration and visa controls on EU citizens, it means they have the same terms as the vast majority off UK immigrants from all over the world. They have to make a decision to settle in the UK. By operating a visa system migrants can only come to do a needed occupation, and not disappear in to the job market legally. * edit:Recent news: www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19604413.number-eu-nationals-stay-southampton-brexit/
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 25, 2021 12:34:40 GMT
Think we're well past the point of discussing why Brexit happened and should be onto where we go from here. Brexit is what it is and we should now be discussing what's next, how we handle the current UK issues and also the global climate crisis. I totally agree with you foster, but I cannot sit back and let lies and misleading headlines pass. Some of our media are irresponsibly talking the country into crises and whipping up panic. There is plenty of petrol, and just 100 stations out of 3,000 have not got their delivery, and panic is being stirred up causing long queues at petrol stations, and people needlessly topping up their tanks. www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/local-fuel-garage-issues-public-statement-we-are-not-short-of-fuel-stop-listening-to-the-mediaI do try and post optimistic posts on many threads to counteract the childish doom and gloom posters. We live in one of the best countries in the world with hugely talented and generous people; just look at how we did in the Paralympics. We have full employment and wonderful health service that is one of the best in the world and an excellent education system. We have tremendous natural resources and one of the best climates in the world. What is there to complain about except the weather! If you don't like our politicians, then do something about it.
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Post by Orbs on Sept 25, 2021 13:13:31 GMT
I wonder what the percentage of people would be who voted for Brexit and would repeat their Brexit vote again with the benefit of hindsight? 100%? 75%? 50?%?
There surely can’t be many who voted remain and would now vote Brexit?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 25, 2021 13:29:01 GMT
Think we're well past the point of discussing why Brexit happened and should be onto where we go from here. Brexit is what it is and we should now be discussing what's next, how we handle the current UK issues and also the global climate crisis. I totally agree with you foster, but I cannot sit back and let lies and misleading headlines pass. Some of our media are irresponsibly talking the country into crises and whipping up panic. There is plenty of petrol, and just 100 stations out of 3,000 have not got their delivery, and panic is being stirred up causing long queues at petrol stations, and people needlessly topping up their tanks. I do try and post optimistic posts on many threads to counteract the childish doom and gloom posters. We live in one of the best countries in the world with hugely talented and generous people; just look at how we did in the Paralympics. We have full employment and wonderful health service that is one of the best in the world and an excellent education system. We have tremendous natural resources and one of the best climates in the world. What is there to complain about except the weather! If you don't like our politicians, then do something about it. I know - shame we seem hell bent on chucking it all away isn't it?😉
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 25, 2021 14:28:42 GMT
I wonder what the percentage of people would be who voted for Brexit and would repeat their Brexit vote again with the benefit of hindsight? 100%? 75%? 50?%? There surely can’t be many who voted remain and would now vote Brexit? If the same vote were to happen again based on what we now know, Remain would be in the majority for sure. I am still yet to hear of any benefits that Brexit has brought to the country, only negatives. I'm happy to hear of them though as I genuinely want to see this country prosper - though it seems to be going backwards.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2021 16:35:06 GMT
I thought you were in favour of immigration to fill the jobs we need filling? Are Romanian doctors now no longer able to come and work in the UK ? I thought you said the driver shortages were due to the pandemic rather than Brexit so why then claim that it is Brexit leading to increased driver wages? You really don't get it. Let's try again: I am fully in favour of immigration. I am fully in favour of people coming to the UK to work on a visa to do a specified job we need filling. I am not in favour of EU membership and freedom of movement, where EU citizens can come and go at will, cherry pick jobs, go back to their own country when they feel like it, come briefly to use the NHS, claim benefits for their families back in their own country, avoid tax, etc., etc. Just to correct you, EU citizens have never been able to come and claim the vast majority of benefits available here. And if they could, they would go to Germany or France instead where the benefits system is far more generous than ours.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 16:45:42 GMT
You really don't get it. Let's try again: I am fully in favour of immigration. I am fully in favour of people coming to the UK to work on a visa to do a specified job we need filling. I am not in favour of EU membership and freedom of movement, where EU citizens can come and go at will, cherry pick jobs, go back to their own country when they feel like it, come briefly to use the NHS, claim benefits for their families back in their own country, avoid tax, etc., etc. Just to correct you, EU citizens have never been able to come and claim the vast majority of benefits available here. And if they could, they would go to Germany or France instead where the benefits system is far more generous than ours. Why are they so keen to leave Calais for the UK? Especially as this country's going to hell in a handcart apparently? It certainly isn't for the weather or food.... Also, could you clarify what you mean by 'vast majority of benefits'? I still can't get my head around why they seem so keen to avoid the glorious EU and pitch up here......
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 25, 2021 16:48:30 GMT
The racist part is the fact that the government will forsake what is good for the country in order to keep out foreigners. What else motivates it when it is so bad for us all!? Why else choose such a self destructive trade policy with by far our biggest trading partners that has been an absolute disaster. The irony is more drivers with altered immigration rules won’t stop the added red tape and bureaucracy that Brexit has caused at borders. The reason deliveries going from Bucharest, to Vienna, to Frankfurt to Paris don’t then come to London now is because of added bureaucracy. So changing immigration rules to allow more drivers in isn’t going to resolve the problems we face and it still means costs of imports that we desperately need will continue to increase. That negatively impacts British businesses and consumers. But obviously you have in your 2 replies to me not addressed any of the issues I raised. You instead declared your unwavering and blind faith and loyalty to Brexit, without actually knowing there is a difference between the EEA and the EU! It is extraordinary that you feel you have anything to say on the topic of brexit when you don’t even know what the EU is! You are the embodiment of why remain lost you are simply incapable of engaging in a debate without the assumption the other side is stupid or racist. I'd suggest its you who doesn't understand the difference between brexit and the EEA in return for continuing to pay fees, following laws etc you are still not part of the customs union which might make trade move more smoothly so you actually want to pay money for an even worse deal - did you used to work for Theresa May ? There is also no doubt EEA membership would have just been a trojan horse to take us back in on the sly. Keeping out foreigners would be xenophobic not racist and you are in for a shock because I am pretty sure every countries immigration policies deal with keeping out foreigners sherlock, the clue is in the name That would be a government that priortised keeping out foreigners so much it gave 6 million odd "foreigners" the right to live in the uk permanently..... Geography not a strong point either bucherest to vienna etc via London is s bit out of the way old bean, you do realise that EU truckers who come into the UK for a delivery are still able to take jobs within the UK before returning, you wont find that sort of thing reported try listening to Tom Swirback on LBC its quite informative, actual truckers were calling in, they were also explaining about tanker drivers, which has always been higher paid but a bit of a closed shop to go into. I could go on but I'll just point out we left the EU on the 31/1/20 so firstly dry your eyes and secondly ask yourself why did we not experience these shortages immediately its almost like some major event might have taken place which is changing the way business is done (more online) and has caused people to evaluate their lives and some have decided pissing in a bottle is not for them anymore but yeah brexit blah blah blah and you still neec the bus for a full house. You still don’t accept we could have left the EU and remained in the single market do you!? You don’t understand the difference. So you think that shortages here aren’t down to brexit? Then you are confirming that you really are thick. Listen to the businessmen and company owners who are suffering. It is all down to Brexit. Else everywhere else would have the same problems if it was only covid related. But they don’t. Truckers do lots of stops. They just don’t come to England as much now because of red tape. Have you not seen the dramatic drop in exports from the UK to the EU? They are shopping elsewhere to save the extra costs of the bureaucracy and it is our businesses that are losing business and money. Self destruction, all for a blue passport we could have had anyway.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 25, 2021 16:55:03 GMT
I wonder what the percentage of people would be who voted for Brexit and would repeat their Brexit vote again with the benefit of hindsight? 100%? 75%? 50?%? There surely can’t be many who voted remain and would now vote Brexit? If the same vote were to happen again based on what we now know, Remain would be in the majority for sure. I am still yet to hear of any benefits that Brexit has brought to the country, only negatives. I'm happy to hear of them though as I genuinely want to see this country prosper - though it seems to be going backwards. I think it'd be pretty close again: whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/People are pretty much dug in to their ways of thinking on the subject and won't change. I'd guess that at least 90% of people who voted Leave have convinced themselves it was the right thing to do irrespective of how it pans out now and that as time passes, any negative impacts will become 'normal' government mismanagement rather than as a consequence of Brexit. Any objective assessment would show that, so far, there have been a fair number of negatives (fishing, farming, NI, driver shortages, lowering of environmental protection, supply chain issues, increased trade friction, export problems etc - even MrCoke acknowledges these!) and hardly any positives beyond the entirely intangible sovereignty aspect. Perhaps we need to wait a few decades for the full benefits to accrue... We've even had to raise NI to generate £12bn a year for the next three years to fund NHS and social care post pandemic, when we could have drawn down that £12bn from the £18bn a year we're saving on EU contributions and had £6bn left over, if only that hadn't been shown up to be the complete bullshit it was. For some, facts continue not to matter or need to be down-played, but this is why it's critical to hold our leaders (many of whom were the ones responsible for promoting and delivering Brexit) to account on what they promised it would bring, rather than simply shrug, say it's all over and pretend everything is fine or stuff going wrong is just random bad luck! Not least so that future promises can be compared with previous ones in the hope that more people eventually come to realise that the emperor is not actually wearing anything and actually never has been.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 17:02:33 GMT
We are not going back, when will this sink in?
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 25, 2021 17:12:12 GMT
You really don't get it. Let's try again: I am fully in favour of immigration. I am fully in favour of people coming to the UK to work on a visa to do a specified job we need filling. I am not in favour of EU membership and freedom of movement, where EU citizens can come and go at will, cherry pick jobs, go back to their own country when they feel like it, come briefly to use the NHS, claim benefits for their families back in their own country, avoid tax, etc., etc. Just to correct you, EU citizens have never been able to come and claim the vast majority of benefits available here. And if they could, they would go to Germany or France instead where the benefits system is far more generous than ours. Just to correct you here is a link to a 2019 pre Brexit government web site that lists the benefits and qualifications the can be claimed: commonslibrary.parliament.uk/how-can-eu-nationals-access-uk-benefits/An EU citizen can simply be a job seeker to claim benefits When the former Soviet Union nations joined the EU Tony Blair gave them unlimited access to the UK, unlike Germany and other countries. theconversation.com/the-huge-political-cost-of-blairs-decision-to-allow-eastern-european-migrants-unfettered-access-to-britain-66077One manager I had working for me had to give time off for one of his employees to go and see the authorities to claim child benefit for his children in easter Europe.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 17:34:17 GMT
Think we're well past the point of discussing why Brexit happened and should be onto where we go from here. Brexit is what it is and we should now be discussing what's next, how we handle the current UK issues and also the global climate crisis. The triumphalism of certain people on here is sickening. Easy to snipe, not so quick in suggesting alternatives. No wonder they'll always be in opposition.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 25, 2021 17:56:46 GMT
Think we're well past the point of discussing why Brexit happened and should be onto where we go from here. Brexit is what it is and we should now be discussing what's next, how we handle the current UK issues and also the global climate crisis. The triumphalism of certain people on here is sickening. Easy to snipe, not so quick in suggesting alternatives. No wonder they'll always be in opposition. What do you expect? They've had 40 years of 'sniping' from people who when they finally get what they want fuck it up. Seems some folk are happy to dish it out but mightily thin skinned when it comes back the other way. None of which helps of course - but its hard to deny them their moment of schadenfreude.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 18:37:57 GMT
The triumphalism of certain people on here is sickening. Easy to snipe, not so quick in suggesting alternatives. No wonder they'll always be in opposition. What do you expect? They've had 40 years of 'sniping' from people who when they finally get what they want fuck it up. Seems some folk are happy to dish it out but mightily thin skinned when it comes back the other way. None of which helps of course - but its hard to deny them their moment of schadenfreude. But we're discussing the future of our nation, not Vale v Stoke. This should transcend triumphalism and one upmanship (which I always thought were Tory values anyway...) What is schadenfreude bringing to the table? Any viable alternatives? I'm yet to hear anything constructive from our Remainer cousins You guys have all the answers, let's have some
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 25, 2021 19:04:30 GMT
You are the embodiment of why remain lost you are simply incapable of engaging in a debate without the assumption the other side is stupid or racist. I'd suggest its you who doesn't understand the difference between brexit and the EEA in return for continuing to pay fees, following laws etc you are still not part of the customs union which might make trade move more smoothly so you actually want to pay money for an even worse deal - did you used to work for Theresa May ? There is also no doubt EEA membership would have just been a trojan horse to take us back in on the sly. Keeping out foreigners would be xenophobic not racist and you are in for a shock because I am pretty sure every countries immigration policies deal with keeping out foreigners sherlock, the clue is in the name That would be a government that priortised keeping out foreigners so much it gave 6 million odd "foreigners" the right to live in the uk permanently..... Geography not a strong point either bucherest to vienna etc via London is s bit out of the way old bean, you do realise that EU truckers who come into the UK for a delivery are still able to take jobs within the UK before returning, you wont find that sort of thing reported try listening to Tom Swirback on LBC its quite informative, actual truckers were calling in, they were also explaining about tanker drivers, which has always been higher paid but a bit of a closed shop to go into. I could go on but I'll just point out we left the EU on the 31/1/20 so firstly dry your eyes and secondly ask yourself why did we not experience these shortages immediately its almost like some major event might have taken place which is changing the way business is done (more online) and has caused people to evaluate their lives and some have decided pissing in a bottle is not for them anymore but yeah brexit blah blah blah and you still neec the bus for a full house. You still don’t accept we could have left the EU and remained in the single market do you!? You don’t understand the difference. So you think that shortages here aren’t down to brexit? Then you are confirming that you really are thick. Listen to the businessmen and company owners who are suffering. It is all down to Brexit. Else everywhere else would have the same problems if it was only covid related. But they don’t. Truckers do lots of stops. They just don’t come to England as much now because of red tape. Have you not seen the dramatic drop in exports from the UK to the EU? They are shopping elsewhere to save the extra costs of the bureaucracy and it is our businesses that are losing business and money. Self destruction, all for a blue passport we could have had anyway. For someone who complains about insults you just cant seem to help yourself throwing them around, typical crying remoaner. We have tariff free access to the single market, remaining a member would have offered little to no benefit to this, we would still be subject to the customs checks / procedures as we would still not be in the customs union even in the EEA and if we stayed in any sort of customs union it would not have been leaving, this really is brexit 101 and has been discussed many times. There's a link to a report from 2018 identifying driver shortages across the EU listing problems of poor pay and conditions and saying the fix of using eastern european drivers would not last forever as they were getting more opportunities at the same or better pay in their own countries. There is countless drivers telling people how shit the job is now once they could make £250 a day now its £80 a day, sleeping in the cab, lack of showers / facilities etc etc. Blue passport, bonus ball tick on the bullshit bingo still need the bus for the full house.
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Post by 4372 on Sept 25, 2021 19:17:45 GMT
Think we're well past the point of discussing why Brexit happened and should be onto where we go from here. Brexit is what it is and we should now be discussing what's next, how we handle the current UK issues and also the global climate crisis. I totally agree with you foster, but I cannot sit back and let lies and misleading headlines pass. Some of our media are irresponsibly talking the country into crises and whipping up panic. There is plenty of petrol, and just 100 stations out of 3,000 have not got their delivery, and panic is being stirred up causing long queues at petrol stations, and people needlessly topping up their tanks. www.taxi-point.co.uk/post/local-fuel-garage-issues-public-statement-we-are-not-short-of-fuel-stop-listening-to-the-mediaI do try and post optimistic posts on many threads to counteract the childish doom and gloom posters. We live in one of the best countries in the world with hugely talented and generous people; just look at how we did in the Paralympics. We have full employment and wonderful health service that is one of the best in the world and an excellent education system. We have tremendous natural resources and one of the best climates in the world. What is there to complain about except the weather! If you don't like our politicians, then do something about it. What you post is anti-EU drivel posing as reasoned fact. You have every right to post your opinions, but don't mislead people on here,by pretending that you are using reliable sources to present your case. You have been found out before. What you and other have done,in my view,is nothing short of vandalism against the fabric of the UK. You see people even on this thread giving examples of how Brexit has degraded their own lives, and have nothing more to offer than jam tomorrow,and personal attacks on EU leaders.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 25, 2021 19:18:20 GMT
What do you expect? They've had 40 years of 'sniping' from people who when they finally get what they want fuck it up. Seems some folk are happy to dish it out but mightily thin skinned when it comes back the other way. None of which helps of course - but its hard to deny them their moment of schadenfreude. But we're discussing the future of our nation, not Vale v Stoke. This should transcend triumphalism and one upmanship (which I always thought were Tory values anyway...) What is schadenfreude bringing to the table? Any viable alternatives? I'm yet to hear anything constructive from our Remainer cousins You guys have all the answers, let's have some Well firstly your premise that Tory = Brexit and Labour = Remain is flawed - so lets get that out of the way. It's not Labour vs Tory and never was. Secondly Remainers voted for the alternative - but you didn't want that. Now when you have got what you wanted and fucked it up you're looking to remainers to dig you out. Come on! Thirdly when you're talking about triumphalism you seem to have very quickly forgotten the vogue phrase 'You lost - get over it" of not so long ago. I haven't. Ultimately we'll come together - we'll have to - but it might happen that little more quickly if some of our triumphist Brexiteers could be a little more gracious and a little less idealogical.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 20:03:49 GMT
But we're discussing the future of our nation, not Vale v Stoke. This should transcend triumphalism and one upmanship (which I always thought were Tory values anyway...) What is schadenfreude bringing to the table? Any viable alternatives? I'm yet to hear anything constructive from our Remainer cousins You guys have all the answers, let's have some Well firstly your premise that Tory = Brexit and Labour = Remain is flawed - so lets get that out of the way. It's not Labour vs Tory and never was. Secondly Remainers voted for the alternative - but you didn't want that. Now when you have got what you wanted and fucked it up you're looking to remainers to dig you out. Come on! Thirdly when you're talking about triumphalism you seem to have very quickly forgotten the vogue phrase 'You lost - get over it" of not so long ago. I haven't. Ultimately we'll come together - we'll have to - but it might happen that little more quickly if some of our triumphist Brexiteers could be a little more gracious and a little less idealogical. I haven't fucked anything up my friend. I have had no say. That's like saying I fucked up the Euro Final because Saka missed. I'm just an observer And I'm not looking for you guys to dig us out of anything- you're not in a position to do shit. Just like me you're spitballing on a messageboard, so lose the sanctimonious attitude
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 25, 2021 20:09:46 GMT
Well firstly your premise that Tory = Brexit and Labour = Remain is flawed - so lets get that out of the way. It's not Labour vs Tory and never was. Secondly Remainers voted for the alternative - but you didn't want that. Now when you have got what you wanted and fucked it up you're looking to remainers to dig you out. Come on! Thirdly when you're talking about triumphalism you seem to have very quickly forgotten the vogue phrase 'You lost - get over it" of not so long ago. I haven't. Ultimately we'll come together - we'll have to - but it might happen that little more quickly if some of our triumphist Brexiteers could be a little more gracious and a little less idealogical. I haven't fucked anything up my friend. I have had no say. That's like saying I fucked up the Euro Final because Saka missed. I'm just an observer. Did you not vote?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 25, 2021 20:21:07 GMT
Well firstly your premise that Tory = Brexit and Labour = Remain is flawed - so lets get that out of the way. It's not Labour vs Tory and never was. Secondly Remainers voted for the alternative - but you didn't want that. Now when you have got what you wanted and fucked it up you're looking to remainers to dig you out. Come on! Thirdly when you're talking about triumphalism you seem to have very quickly forgotten the vogue phrase 'You lost - get over it" of not so long ago. I haven't. Ultimately we'll come together - we'll have to - but it might happen that little more quickly if some of our triumphist Brexiteers could be a little more gracious and a little less idealogical. I haven't fucked anything up my friend. I have had no say. That's like saying I fucked up the Euro Final because Saka missed. I'm just an observer And I'm not looking for you guys to dig us out of anything- you're not in a position to do shit. Just like me you're spitballing on a messageboard, so lose the sanctimonious attitude But I thought you were asking for alternatives? And it's not like Saka at all. Because unlike the England team on the night of the Euros finals with the referendum you did have a say - a very big one - and you won. Now get over it!🤣
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 20:23:25 GMT
I haven't fucked anything up my friend. I have had no say. That's like saying I fucked up the Euro Final because Saka missed. I'm just an observer. Did you not vote? I did indeed, beyond that though I've not had any infuence on how things have unfolded as I wasn't present at any of the negotiations unfortunately. The more people like you try and make me feel guilty though, simply reaffirms my belief that I voted the right way. Sorry fella.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 25, 2021 20:25:58 GMT
I haven't fucked anything up my friend. I have had no say. That's like saying I fucked up the Euro Final because Saka missed. I'm just an observer And I'm not looking for you guys to dig us out of anything- you're not in a position to do shit. Just like me you're spitballing on a messageboard, so lose the sanctimonious attitude But I thought you were asking for alternatives? And it's not like Saka at all. Because unlike the England team on the night of the Euros finals with the referendum you did have a say - a very big one - and you won. Now get over it!🤣 I did win and I am over it mate. Brexit has not inadvertently affected me in any way, shape or form. Snipe all you like. It really is amusing. And yes, let's see some alternatives, O Wise One. You must have a few, that extend beyond being a bit salty on a messageboard? I'm 'all ears'.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 25, 2021 20:31:30 GMT
But I thought you were asking for alternatives? And it's not like Saka at all. Because unlike the England team on the night of the Euros finals with the referendum you did have a say - a very big one - and you won. Now get over it!🤣 I did win and I am over it mate. Brexit has not inadvertently affected me in any way, shape or form. Snipe all you like. It really is amusing Amusing? I thought you said it was 'sickening' a couple of hours ago.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 25, 2021 20:50:45 GMT
I did indeed, beyond that though I've not had any infuence on how things have unfolded as I wasn't present at any of the negotiations unfortunately. The more people like you try and make me feel guilty though, simply reaffirms my belief that I voted the right way. Sorry fella. You've got to love some of the shit posted on here by the remoan side. They just cannot let it go. So when we produced one of the most stunning logistical roll outs in history earlier this year it wasn't because of Brexit. When Europe threaten to breach international law and put a hard border between the UK and Ireland it wasn't Europe's fault. When we have a driver shortage (ignoring the fact that we've had a pandemic, shut down the world for 18 months and Europe also having similar shortages) it's because of Brexit. This total obsession with supporting a hugely inefficient, corrupt, unelected bureaucracy that is creaking at the seams while condescendingly abusing the "peasantry who dare oppose the empire", is quite astounding. To quote the great Maajid Nawaz on LBC yesterday "Just get over it man, get over it!". Seriously.. Get over it. Anyone with a sense of rationality knows that there is a balancing act to be had over these first few years as we transition into "independence" - We were in Europe for the best part of 50 years. There were always going to be challenges along the way, there will be great deals struck and big successes as well as annoyances and mistakes but like many Brexiteers rightly said at the time, we won't know for a good decade or so whether it's been a success or not so any judgement should be reserved. Albeit both sides love to jump on the bandwagon when good or bad things happen - We're all guilty of that 😉 On balance, given the hugely successful vaccine roll out, trade deals struck and relative strength of the pound against the euro, it surely has to be viewed as a good start. This shortage story stirred up by the media is a desperate attempt by remoaners to blame Brexit. Its painful reading and frankly, unfounded and cringe worthy.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 25, 2021 21:06:32 GMT
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