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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 21, 2021 12:12:30 GMT
We were told there would be no change, let's not pretend that we weren't lied to mate. I certainly don’t feel lied to as I fully expected things to change I voted for change I haven’t necessarily got the change I wanted So you didn't get the change you wanted... i.e. you were lied to.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 21, 2021 12:14:03 GMT
We're not rejoining anyway so it's all a load of huffing and puffing over nothing. Some people need to find something more constructive to do with their days rather than wallowing in negativity about things beyond their control 😆 I'd vote to re-join if the arguments were strong enough but from what I've seen and read both before we left and since makes me think it's going to be really tough for anyone who believes the current EU is something worth joining to find anywhere near enough positives to swing me back again. I've never trusted the French and the way they've behaved in not only Brexit but also with AUKUS is embarrasing. Macron needs the back of his bare legs smacking like the naughty little boy that he is. They didn't cover themselves in glory by playing 'Bertrand Big Bollocks' with Jersey either.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 21, 2021 12:15:44 GMT
I certainly don’t feel lied to as I fully expected things to change I voted for change I haven’t necessarily got the change I wanted So you didn't get the change you wanted... i.e. you were lied to. No No major politicians promised me a no deal brexit therefore I wasn’t lied to just disappointed 😢 Plus the fact I never fully believe a word that comes out of any politician’s mouth
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 21, 2021 14:18:50 GMT
So you didn't get the change you wanted... i.e. you were lied to. No No major politicians promised me a no deal brexit therefore I wasn’t lied to just disappointed 😢 Plus the fact I never fully believe a word that comes out of any politician’s mouth You were lied to mate...simple.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 21, 2021 17:04:29 GMT
It’s disappointing that within a year there’s a massive tax hike, despite being told leaving would save the UK billions of pounds every year. Labour shortages and record numbers of Economic migrants being shoo’d out of France. Everything’s a bit shit at the moment. Why do people feel the need to make stuff up ? It was never said leaving would save billions of pounds a year it actually said on a bus we send £350m a week to the EU lets fund the nhs instead or something like that, no mention of saving the money ever surprised the bus hasn't been mentioned on the previous 1407 pages....... It was never said that leaving would save money? www.thesun.co.uk/news/1218703/boris-promises-cheaper-household-gas-bills-if-brits-back-brexit/
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Post by muggleton on Sept 21, 2021 17:30:06 GMT
Personally I think it will get slightly worse Before it gets considerably better It was never going to be sunshine all the way and anyone who thought it would needed to give there head a wobble True freedom for me would of been to have left with a no deal brexit straight after the referendum Regaining control of fishing etc And no Northern Ireland protocol What worries me the most about brexit is the lack of will from all political parties to grab the possibilities of brexit Gas Water Electric Should all be privatised and run as non profit making There should be incentives for companies to return manufacturing to this country We were told there would be no change, let's not pretend that we weren't lied to mate. So things are going better than you expected. Fair enough. I do take issue with your points on Northern Ireland though. I'm from there and think its absolutely bizarre to claim the Govt is doing its best to sort things out (it isn't), and that it isn't giving an inch (it is, repeatedly). And there was never any chance of NI voting leave, so that's odd to even suggest. The NI Protocol issue is likely to calm down not as a result of any UK Govt action, but as it increasingly comes to be seen as a bulwark against the shortages and price rises faced by GB. I know the average Emglish person knows little and cares less about NI, but Brexit has been a rude awakening for unionists who didn't think they'd be surrendered as collateral damage so readily.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 21, 2021 18:22:53 GMT
We were told there would be no change, let's not pretend that we weren't lied to mate. So things are going better than you expected. Fair enough. I do take issue with your points on Northern Ireland though. I'm from there and think its absolutely bizarre to claim the Govt is doing its best to sort things out (it isn't), and that it isn't giving an inch (it is, repeatedly). And there was never any chance of NI voting leave, so that's odd to even suggest. The NI Protocol issue is likely to calm down not as a result of any UK Govt action, but as it increasingly comes to be seen as a bulwark against the shortages and price rises faced by GB. I know the average Emglish person knows little and cares less about NI, but Brexit has been a rude awakening for unionists who didn't think they'd be surrendered as collateral damage so readily. Only one way to sort that, a united Ireland. Just as it should be.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 21, 2021 18:27:35 GMT
So things are going better than you expected. Fair enough. I do take issue with your points on Northern Ireland though. I'm from there and think its absolutely bizarre to claim the Govt is doing its best to sort things out (it isn't), and that it isn't giving an inch (it is, repeatedly). And there was never any chance of NI voting leave, so that's odd to even suggest. The NI Protocol issue is likely to calm down not as a result of any UK Govt action, but as it increasingly comes to be seen as a bulwark against the shortages and price rises faced by GB. I know the average Emglish person knows little and cares less about NI, but Brexit has been a rude awakening for unionists who didn't think they'd be surrendered as collateral damage so readily. Only one way to sort that, a united Ireland. Just as it should be. I agree a United ireland with the queen / king as head of state
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Post by thevoid on Sept 21, 2021 18:31:53 GMT
Only one way to sort that, a united Ireland. Just as it should be. I agree a United ireland with the queen / king as head of state I don't think so 😆
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 21, 2021 18:46:09 GMT
I agree a United ireland with the queen / king as head of state I don't think so 😆 Well we should out of politeness offer If they decline Well they can spend the rest of there lives sucking up to the likes of macron Whilst the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland sail into the sunlit uplands of freedom from the European yoke
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 21, 2021 21:35:17 GMT
You think the government cutting the VAT it receives is saving money for the UK, ok then....... It was also said very regularly being in the EU didn't affect wages well thats clearly been a lie from the start.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 21, 2021 22:19:42 GMT
Let's be a little realistic, any promises made by any politician are rarely fulfilled and as so far as promises pre 2020, the worldwide pandemic has blown the world economy to bits and all nations have a massive debt on their hands for a long time to come. The EU pandemic recovery fund is 1.82 trillion Euros. We can all expect to have to pay for all the borrowing the government have indulged in for the last 18 months. It appears there is more today to pay to keep carbon dioxide production at fertilizer plants which eventually will fall to the tax payer. The country now has £trillions of debt due to the pandemic for furloughing, business assistance, NHS pandemic measures such as vaccination, and more debt mounting due to clearing NHS backlog, climate change measures, etc. plus the interest on the debt. Taxes such as income, VAT, Corporation, Customs and Excise etc. are going to be high for the foreseeable future. As for energy bills they are nothing to do with Brexit but a European wide issue: www.scotsman.com/business/consumer/why-is-there-a-gas-shortage-in-the-uk-heres-why-gas-prices-are-so-high-and-why-energy-prices-are-rising-3385529
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2021 23:13:55 GMT
Brexit. What a fuck up.
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Post by muggleton on Sept 22, 2021 11:58:17 GMT
So things are going better than you expected. Fair enough. I do take issue with your points on Northern Ireland though. I'm from there and think its absolutely bizarre to claim the Govt is doing its best to sort things out (it isn't), and that it isn't giving an inch (it is, repeatedly). And there was never any chance of NI voting leave, so that's odd to even suggest. The NI Protocol issue is likely to calm down not as a result of any UK Govt action, but as it increasingly comes to be seen as a bulwark against the shortages and price rises faced by GB. I know the average Emglish person knows little and cares less about NI, but Brexit has been a rude awakening for unionists who didn't think they'd be surrendered as collateral damage so readily. Only one way to sort that, a united Ireland. Just as it should be. Brexit has certainly made a united Ireland more logical and likely, and I expect to see it in my lifetime. Next to no-one in England will give a damn, but navigating the coming constitutional change peacefully is my biggest priority. I grew-up in the Troubles, and have no interest in going back there.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 22, 2021 16:30:54 GMT
Let's face it, if you still think Brexit is a good idea, all of the shit that has happened as a result (NI tensions, farming and fishing sold down the river, food and labour shortages, lowering of environmental protection standards etc etc) are just minor irritations that don't really matter and should be downplayed at every opportunity, especially if they've only affected other people/businesses. In which case, Brexit is going great...
Conversely, anyone who still thinks Brexit is a shit idea has got plenty of evidence so far to persist in that view, as very very little, if anything, has changed noticeably for the better. That £350mill a week we were supposed to be seeing the benefit of certainly didn't stretch very far...
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 22, 2021 16:37:04 GMT
You think the government cutting the VAT it receives is saving money for the UK, ok then....... It was also said very regularly being in the EU didn't affect wages well thats clearly been a lie from the start. The article says: "They claim the £2 billion tax cut can be funded out of the £11 billion a year saved from Britain’s contributions to the European Commission." I think it was obvious wages would rise as labour supply fell. Achieving that without corresponding improvements in productivity to negate inflationary pressures which make the UK less competitive was always going to be the challenge. I find it surprising that many Brexiters who bemoan the loss of manufacturing from the UK because wages are cheaper overseas seem to think that non-productivity -related wage inflation will not worsen that situation.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 22, 2021 16:59:23 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 22, 2021 20:24:45 GMT
You think the government cutting the VAT it receives is saving money for the UK, ok then....... It was also said very regularly being in the EU didn't affect wages well thats clearly been a lie from the start. The article says: "They claim the £2 billion tax cut can be funded out of the £11 billion a year saved from Britain’s contributions to the European Commission." I think it was obvious wages would rise as labour supply fell. Achieving that without corresponding improvements in productivity to negate inflationary pressures which make the UK less competitive was always going to be the challenge. I find it surprising that many Brexiters who bemoan the loss of manufacturing from the UK because wages are cheaper overseas seem to think that non-productivity -related wage inflation will not worsen that situation. The article might say that a saving to me means you have more money in the bank than before now I know countries are different but a saving still means not spending the money and at no point ever was it suggested the money paid as EU membership fees would be not spent it was always to be spent how the government choose rather than the EU. As for wages, the rises have been in non manufacturing jobs so you are comparing apples and oranges, the impact of the pandemic, climate change, driver shortages and complications of brexit are in my opinion likely over time to lead to a move away from global supply chains as JIT deliveries becone JTFL deliveries.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 22, 2021 21:17:37 GMT
The article says: "They claim the £2 billion tax cut can be funded out of the £11 billion a year saved from Britain’s contributions to the European Commission." I think it was obvious wages would rise as labour supply fell. Achieving that without corresponding improvements in productivity to negate inflationary pressures which make the UK less competitive was always going to be the challenge. I find it surprising that many Brexiters who bemoan the loss of manufacturing from the UK because wages are cheaper overseas seem to think that non-productivity -related wage inflation will not worsen that situation. The article might say that a saving to me means you have more money in the bank than before now I know countries are different but a saving still means not spending the money and at no point ever was it suggested the money paid as EU membership fees would be not spent it was always to be spent how the government choose rather than the EU. As for wages, the rises have been in non manufacturing jobs so you are comparing apples and oranges, the impact of the pandemic, climate change, driver shortages and complications of brexit are in my opinion likely over time to lead to a move away from global supply chains as JIT deliveries becone JTFL deliveries. We clearly have different perception of what constitutes a saving. For me when I was working from home during the pandemic I spent less on fuel but have spent that money elsewhere. To my mind I saved money on fuel , regardless of the fact that money is not sitting in the bank. If wages are currently rising in non-manufacturing jobs do you not think that will have an effect on manufacturing sector wages ? If a manufacturer wants to retain an engineer or technician the wages paid will need to be sufficient to persuade that person they would not be better off in, for example in the current climate, a driving job. Certainly my employer has traditionally attracted many to work as manufacturing technicians from warehousing , hospitality and food processing because the working conditions are typically that bit better but not many would join if they would have been better off where they were. Seemingly great news for the employees but there is no increase in productivity, no technology available to automate , so either my employer squeezes margins or increases prices. Inflation hurts those on the lowest earnings most, as we are about to see discussed at length for, at least, this winter.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 23, 2021 6:00:29 GMT
Let's face it, if you still think Brexit is a good idea, all of the shit that has happened as a result (NI tensions, farming and fishing sold down the river, food and labour shortages, lowering of environmental protection standards etc etc) are just minor irritations that don't really matter and should be downplayed at every opportunity, especially if they've only affected other people/businesses. In which case, Brexit is going great... Conversely, anyone who still thinks Brexit is a shit idea has got plenty of evidence so far to persist in that view, as very very little, if anything, has changed noticeably for the better. That £350mill a week we were supposed to be seeing the benefit of certainly didn't stretch very far... It is indisputable - Brexit is a disaster. And it’s no surprise. After all, the people who voted for it were all, without fail, thicko racists. But what to do? There’s only one thing… bitch, whine, moan, bump your gums. That’ll show ‘em.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 23, 2021 9:31:01 GMT
Let's face it, if you still think Brexit is a good idea, all of the shit that has happened as a result (NI tensions, farming and fishing sold down the river, food and labour shortages, lowering of environmental protection standards etc etc) are just minor irritations that don't really matter and should be downplayed at every opportunity, especially if they've only affected other people/businesses. In which case, Brexit is going great... Conversely, anyone who still thinks Brexit is a shit idea has got plenty of evidence so far to persist in that view, as very very little, if anything, has changed noticeably for the better. That £350mill a week we were supposed to be seeing the benefit of certainly didn't stretch very far... By way of example of the first one, the Telegraph leader today is arguing that the failure of a US/UK trade deal is "not the be all and end all". Of course, getting a deal with the States was going to be "easy", "crucial" and a "signal of the opportunities and attractiveness of the new global Britain post Brexit", all of which were the positions of the pro-Brexit Telegraph previously. This is the way forward apparently. Downplay the shitshow at every opportunity, pretend it's not really happening, try to make out that anything other than World War 3 (as Remainers no doubt predicted!) is a great success.
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Post by foster on Sept 23, 2021 9:57:45 GMT
Let's face it, if you still think Brexit is a good idea, all of the shit that has happened as a result (NI tensions, farming and fishing sold down the river, food and labour shortages, lowering of environmental protection standards etc etc) are just minor irritations that don't really matter and should be downplayed at every opportunity, especially if they've only affected other people/businesses. In which case, Brexit is going great... Conversely, anyone who still thinks Brexit is a shit idea has got plenty of evidence so far to persist in that view, as very very little, if anything, has changed noticeably for the better. That £350mill a week we were supposed to be seeing the benefit of certainly didn't stretch very far... It is indisputable - Brexit is a disaster. And it’s no surprise. After all, the people who voted for it were all, without fail, thicko racists. But what to do? There’s only one thing… bitch, whine, moan, bump your gums. That’ll show ‘em. So you have no evidence of the contrary other than a sarcastic post. Cool.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 23, 2021 10:32:02 GMT
It is indisputable - Brexit is a disaster. And it’s no surprise. After all, the people who voted for it were all, without fail, thicko racists. But what to do? There’s only one thing… bitch, whine, moan, bump your gums. That’ll show ‘em. So you have no evidence of the contrary other than a sarcastic post. Cool. Being cool is another approach.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 23, 2021 14:55:29 GMT
Let's face it, if you still think Brexit is a good idea, all of the shit that has happened as a result (NI tensions, farming and fishing sold down the river, food and labour shortages, lowering of environmental protection standards etc etc) are just minor irritations that don't really matter and should be downplayed at every opportunity, especially if they've only affected other people/businesses. In which case, Brexit is going great... Conversely, anyone who still thinks Brexit is a shit idea has got plenty of evidence so far to persist in that view, as very very little, if anything, has changed noticeably for the better. That £350mill a week we were supposed to be seeing the benefit of certainly didn't stretch very far... 1. The UK (except NI) is no longer subject to EU regulations or ECOJ decisions. Regarding NI the government simply plays the waiting game moving goods from mainland Britain into NI. The EU dare not close the border with Ireland. Eventually the EU will have to recognize that NI is part of a sovereign country. We have a free trade deal with the EU and most trade is carrying on as normal bar pandemic and transport issues such as the worldwide shortage of containers. We are not in the EU customs union which presents a problem to food exporters, musicians, retired persons wanting to leave the country, students, etc. but most of those problems could be easily overcome by reciprocal agreements when the EU stops thinking it has to punish the British for leaving and destroying the united Europe dream. 2. Exports of food to EU down circa £2 billion, which hardly matters when we import massive amounts of food from EU. 80% of what we consume is imported. So the food we don't sell in the EU we can consume ourselves and reduce our import bill and dependency. Alternatively we export to other countries, which is what is happening. Food exports to North America and the Far East are growing rapidly and represent a far greater future market. We are becoming more self sufficient with huge growth in UK intensive farming of chickens, etc. A consultant's view: " My experience as a Consultant helping Food Producers and Brands to develop their business into Europe is that the Distributors are as exasperated with UK companies for not supporting them and taking the easy route out by giving up and complaining, rather than finding out and learning how to Export successfully to the EU after Brexit. The demand and hunger for UK grocery products is still there. UK companies need to stop blaming Brexit and find out how to succeed in a new business environment. They can also engage with independent international Trade Consultants like myself and many others for advice and help. Invest in your EU business. I personally know of a number of Nordic Distribution companies actively looking for new products and brands from the UK. UK is seen as a powerhouse of good quality grocery products. So, I repeat, stop complaining and invest time, money and effort into your EU business." www.export.org.uk/news/578772/New-figures-show-disastrous-drop-in-UK-food-and-drink-exports-to-the-EU-since-2019.htm3. Fishing. Shell fishing has lost out because of the EU ban on importation. There is a 5 year transition in the control of fishing whereby the UK will have sovereignty over British waters. A large part of the UK fishing quota is taken by EU owners. The French and Irish fishermen are complaining, so who is happy with the deal. Actually we have created a more sustainable industry by reducing the fish take in the long term. Over fishing destroyed the industry 20 years ago due to EU policy, and they are still raping the seas. 4. Agriculture. Hooray then dreaded CAP is dead. The UK can now proceed to build a sustainable industry that works in harmony with the environment instead of destroying it. Bird lovers call for CAP to be scrapped: www.birdlife.org/worldwide/news/open-letter-eu-commission-president-withdraw-common-agricultural-policybut EU agricultural big business wins again: www.wwf.eu/?3888816/EU-farm-ministers-sabotage-attempts-to-strengthen-environmental-elements-of-new-CAPThe new UK agricultural policy act is now in place but obviously it will take years to evolve to a more sustainable and environmentally friendly form of agriculture. 5. There are no food shortages, there is a food transport shortage due to a shortage of lorry drivers, which is historical and largely due to the pandemic and change in drivers lifestyle priorities, and only partially due to Brexit, DVLA strike, travel restrictions, etc. 6. There are labour shortages. Britain is booming with The Office for National Statistics reporting the number of payroll employees increased by 241,000 to 29.1 million in August, lifting employment in all regions of the UK to pre-Covid levels (except in London, Scotland and south-east England) which were at record levels. We were told by remainers there would be recession and unemployment, if we voted leave. When that didn't happen, we were told "well we have not left yet". Well we have left and wages are increasing for the low paid. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/u-k-labor-market-tightens-pushing-up-wages-as-economy-reopensOf course the anti Brexit camp will even spin that into bad news if they can. 7. There have been no reported incidents or cases of increased pollution as a result of Brexit or changes in legislation. 8. Are things better? Of course not the world is coming out of the grip of a pandemic that has shaken the whole world to the core. We think we have had it bad, but look at Africa and South America. Thank God we weren't subject to Von der Leyen's management of the vaccine procurement. The next obstacle is tackling climate change, at which the UK is a technology world leader. Virtually all the doom and gloom predictions of Remainers have proved false such a we will never be able to negotiate the same trade deals as the EU we are too small, and new trade deals will take at least 5 years, and other such rubbish. Nevertheless the remainers keep complaining and trying to blame every problem on Brexit.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 23, 2021 17:23:04 GMT
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 23, 2021 17:43:59 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 23, 2021 17:48:23 GMT
We really are turning into a panicking and scare mongering society. Looking at the above link in detail: The headline says "set to become.....shortages" as if definite fact. Paragraph 1 says: " could be faced......with shortage". Paragraph 2 says: "Suppliers warning .... could be shortage". Paragraph 3 says: "...difficult to harvest......tricky to import". Paragraph 4 says: " but ... growers....insisting.....more than enough"It used to be said " lies, lies, and statistics"; nowadays it is more a case of " lies, lies, and the media".
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 23, 2021 18:19:38 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 23, 2021 18:41:09 GMT
We really are turning into a panicking and scare mongering society. Looking at the above link in detail: The headline says "set to become.....shortages" as if definite fact. Paragraph 1 says: " could be faced......with shortage". Paragraph 2 says: "Suppliers warning .... could be shortage". Paragraph 3 says: "...difficult to harvest......tricky to import". Paragraph 4 says: " but ... growers....insisting.....more than enough"It used to be said " lies, lies, and statistics"; nowadays it is more a case of " lies, lies, and the media".I can see it now. Tearful children on Christmas morning gathered round the near-bare stump of last year's tree, no presents delivered and a ready-meal Macaroni cheese for Christmas dinner , being comforted by parental assurances that at least they have their sovereignty.
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Post by foster on Sept 23, 2021 18:53:45 GMT
We really are turning into a panicking and scare mongering society. Looking at the above link in detail: The headline says "set to become.....shortages" as if definite fact. Paragraph 1 says: " could be faced......with shortage". Paragraph 2 says: "Suppliers warning .... could be shortage". Paragraph 3 says: "...difficult to harvest......tricky to import". Paragraph 4 says: " but ... growers....insisting.....more than enough"It used to be said " lies, lies, and statistics"; nowadays it is more a case of " lies, lies, and the media".I can see it now. Tearful children on Christmas morning gathered round the near-bare stump of last year's tree, no presents delivered and a ready-meal Macaroni cheese for Christmas dinner , being comforted by parental assurances that at least they have their sovereignty. Tbh, cutting down less trees is a good thing when you consider protecting the environment.
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