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Post by mrcoke on Sept 14, 2021 14:25:38 GMT
You are quite right we shouldn't have to resort to posting old clips, but the problem nowadays foster is there doesn't appear to be any politicians who have any credibility or could be called honourable. I had to laugh this week when I read Gordon Brown was in favour of rejoining the EU. He opposed the UK joining the Eurozone to his everlasting credit and stopped Tony Blair who wanted to join. But to rejoin the EU we would have to join the Eurozone. So we are resorting to scraping the barrel at times. Funny how the remainers rarely quote anyone isn't it? The wisdom of Soubrey and Campbell maybe!Clearly politicians are only in it for themselves. All of them. Quoting them is just laughable. As for those getting it right. Well, it's the same principle. Those who believe anything that comes out of a politicians mouth are as naïve as they come. Regrettably you are probably correct. We have quoted Benn and Shaw on this Brexit file because of their consistently held views and honourable men. Stoke had Jack Ashley a tireless honest campaigner. There have been others; I 'd be interested in people naming them. Frank Field Denis Howell Roy Hattersly
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 14, 2021 20:20:46 GMT
The UK handed over legislative rights to the EEC when the UK joined in the 1970s without a mandate from the British people. That decision was ratified when Wilson held a referendum and we voted to stay in. The UK then handed over further sovereignty under the Maastricht treaty the terms of which Major tried to keep secret and he had no mandate to do, not even by Parliament. We have now had a referendum and voted to take back control of our laws both by a UK parliament, and other national governments such as Scotland, from the EU, and taken back judicial control by ceasing to be subject to the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg (apart from Northern Ireland who are still subject to some EU regulation). A member state of the EU is not a sovereign nation. Further to the above, the EU is heading for fiscal unity under the terms of the EU Pandemic Recovery Fund, where member countries budgets will be control by Brussels who are under the sway a business corporations. The are also proposals for the EU to dictate foreign policy by majority decision, and EU armed forces to interfere in other sovereign states. I can foresee EU setting taxation rules on other matters such as Corporation Tax. euobserver.com/world/151790Nonsense every member country is still sovereign, I have no idea why you still peddle this falsehood. You have not answered Waga's question on what you consider to be sovereignty. As it happens information has come to light today on the EU movement towards a united states of Europe to manage emergencies. During the pandemic we have debated on this MB the different approaches of European countries, namely lockdown policies, travel restrictions, self isolating, vaccine procurement, vaccination protocol, etc. The UK came in for a lot of criticism for tardiness in locking down, the EU for tardiness in procuring vaccines, etc., etc. In some respects individual countries went their own way such as Sweden not locking down, at other times the EU adopted a unified approach such as procuring vaccines. Generally speaking though countries have gone their own way. What was the correct approach on all these issues? Well maybe we will never know (apart from posters on Oatcake) and experts will be researching and trawling through all the data for generations to come to come up with their findings and theories on what should have been done. But not to worry the EU Commission apparently have the matter in hand. Information has been leaked today that the EU Commission will be seeking emergency powers to dictate policy to all member nations in the event of future pandemics or presumably other EU wide threatening situations. www.brusselsreport.eu/2021/09/14/triggering-an-eu-wide-state-of-emergency-and-other-powers-sought-by-the-european-commission/Clearly a pandemic is in mind, but it does not take much imagination to think of situations where the EU could seize control to tackle what it considers an EU wide state of emergency.
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Post by 4372 on Sept 14, 2021 21:00:37 GMT
Quelle surprise. Mr Coke has again quoted an anti-EU article as evidence of what the EU is planning to do. That's like asking a Port Vale fan to write a report on Stoke City's run to the League Cup quarter final last year.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 15, 2021 9:32:56 GMT
Quelle surprise. Mr Coke has again quoted an anti-EU article as evidence of what the EU is planning to do. That's like asking a Port Vale fan to write a report on Stoke City's run to the League Cup quarter final last year. No it isn't. As false equivalence goes, that's a pearler 😀 Would you prefer a pro-EU source? I bet you would ...
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2021 10:26:50 GMT
Quelle surprise. Mr Coke has again quoted an anti-EU article as evidence of what the EU is planning to do. That's like asking a Port Vale fan to write a report on Stoke City's run to the League Cup quarter final last year. Well you spend quite a lot of posting from pro remain links With there anti brexit propaganda
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 15, 2021 10:34:58 GMT
Nonsense every member country is still sovereign, I have no idea why you still peddle this falsehood. You have not answered Waga's question on what you consider to be sovereignty. As it happens information has come to light today on the EU movement towards a united states of Europe to manage emergencies. During the pandemic we have debated on this MB the different approaches of European countries, namely lockdown policies, travel restrictions, self isolating, vaccine procurement, vaccination protocol, etc. The UK came in for a lot of criticism for tardiness in locking down, the EU for tardiness in procuring vaccines, etc., etc. In some respects individual countries went their own way such as Sweden not locking down, at other times the EU adopted a unified approach such as procuring vaccines. Generally speaking though countries have gone their own way. What was the correct approach on all these issues? Well maybe we will never know (apart from posters on Oatcake) and experts will be researching and trawling through all the data for generations to come to come up with their findings and theories on what should have been done. But not to worry the EU Commission apparently have the matter in hand. Information has been leaked today that the EU Commission will be seeking emergency powers to dictate policy to all member nations in the event of future pandemics or presumably other EU wide threatening situations. www.brusselsreport.eu/2021/09/14/triggering-an-eu-wide-state-of-emergency-and-other-powers-sought-by-the-european-commission/Clearly a pandemic is in mind, but it does not take much imagination to think of situations where the EU could seize control to tackle what it considers an EU wide state of emergency. If you don't know what sovereignty is, there is absolutely no point in engaging with you.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2021 10:58:03 GMT
You have not answered Waga's question on what you consider to be sovereignty. As it happens information has come to light today on the EU movement towards a united states of Europe to manage emergencies. During the pandemic we have debated on this MB the different approaches of European countries, namely lockdown policies, travel restrictions, self isolating, vaccine procurement, vaccination protocol, etc. The UK came in for a lot of criticism for tardiness in locking down, the EU for tardiness in procuring vaccines, etc., etc. In some respects individual countries went their own way such as Sweden not locking down, at other times the EU adopted a unified approach such as procuring vaccines. Generally speaking though countries have gone their own way. What was the correct approach on all these issues? Well maybe we will never know (apart from posters on Oatcake) and experts will be researching and trawling through all the data for generations to come to come up with their findings and theories on what should have been done. But not to worry the EU Commission apparently have the matter in hand. Information has been leaked today that the EU Commission will be seeking emergency powers to dictate policy to all member nations in the event of future pandemics or presumably other EU wide threatening situations. www.brusselsreport.eu/2021/09/14/triggering-an-eu-wide-state-of-emergency-and-other-powers-sought-by-the-european-commission/Clearly a pandemic is in mind, but it does not take much imagination to think of situations where the EU could seize control to tackle what it considers an EU wide state of emergency. If you don't know what sovereignty is, there is absolutely no point in engaging with you. My opinion of sovereignty To be able to control your own borders , currency and taxation Justice and laws Now what would you consider differently
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 15, 2021 11:06:21 GMT
Quelle surprise. Mr Coke has again quoted an anti-EU article as evidence of what the EU is planning to do. That's like asking a Port Vale fan to write a report on Stoke City's run to the League Cup quarter final last year. The article I quoted was a Brusselsreport item. They are a new organisation in Europe to criticise EU policy and try and create some balance to the pro EU propaganda EU citizens are subjected to. So in that sense, yes they are biased, but not, I suggest in the way the Daily Mail or Express are. The article was written by a German and their are many people in Germany concerned at the way the EU is demanding precedence over the German constitution on budgetary matters. The Germans are very wary of government over spending, borrowing, quantitative easing, etc. which the EU are now adopting to manage the EU out of the pandemic. In the UK we are quite relaxed about such matters despite that they will inevitably lead to inflation. On a more person matter, I challenge you to show another quote I have made from an anti-EU organisation, unless you count UK government statements. Redwhitenblue did correctly pull me up for quoting a Spectator article some months ago, but generally I always endeavour to post links to the sources of information or opinion, and endeavour not to quote biased sources, other than those supporting EU membership such as the Independent and Guardian. I did quote Daily Mail link recently on the driver shortage thread, that explained the reason Nando's ran out of chicken, which was nothing to do with a driver shortage or Brexit and totally attributable to a labour shortage at the chicken producer due to so many staff being pinged.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 15, 2021 11:32:56 GMT
If you don't know what sovereignty is, there is absolutely no point in engaging with you. My opinion of sovereignty To be able to control your own borders , currency and taxation Justice and laws Now what would you consider differently You mean like we always were able to.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2021 11:36:23 GMT
My opinion of sovereignty To be able to control your own borders , currency and taxation Justice and laws Now what would you consider differently You mean like we always were able to. So you have still to post what you consider sovereignty
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 15, 2021 11:43:12 GMT
You mean like we always were able to. So you have still to post what you consider sovereignty Just like you mate, just like you.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2021 11:51:27 GMT
So you have still to post what you consider sovereignty Just like you mate, just like you. I’ve stated on numerous what I consider being a sovereign nation I’m just curious as to what you consider to be a sovereign nation It’s not a difficult question and I’m sure we may all learn something from your opinion
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Post by foster on Sept 15, 2021 13:20:39 GMT
Just like you mate, just like you. I’ve stated on numerous what I consider being a sovereign nation I’m just curious as to what you consider to be a sovereign nation It’s not a difficult question and I’m sure we may all learn something from your opinion He just answered you.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2021 13:45:21 GMT
My opinion of sovereignty To be able to control your own borders , currency and taxation Justice and laws Now what would you consider differently You mean like we always were able to. Yes just like we were always able to up until 1973
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Post by 4372 on Sept 16, 2021 21:42:12 GMT
Marks & Spencer blames Brexit as it closes 11 French stores
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 16, 2021 23:25:59 GMT
Marks & Spencer blames Brexit as it closes 11 French stores As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”.
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Post by Kilo on Sept 16, 2021 23:44:17 GMT
Marks & Spencer blames Brexit as it closes 11 French stores As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. I seem to remember that remainers claimed that Britain would have no sandwiches after Brexit as all the fresh produce came form the EU. Now M&S are claiming they're closing the stores because it is "struggling to stock the stores with fresh & chilled products" - because of Brexit.
Strange isn't it that two claims 180° apart are both blamed on Brexit. What next for the result of Brexit? Deforestation? Global Warming? Volcanic Eruptions? More dog poo on the pavement? I'm beginning to think I might have made a mistake.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 17, 2021 5:28:19 GMT
As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. I seem to remember that remainers claimed that Britain would have no sandwiches after Brexit as all the fresh produce came form the EU. Now M&S are claiming they're closing the stores because it is "struggling to stock the stores with fresh & chilled products" - because of Brexit. Strange isn't it that two claims 180° apart are both blamed on Brexit. What next for the result of Brexit? Deforestation? Global Warming? Volcanic Eruptions? More dog poo on the pavement? I'm beginning to think I might have made a mistake.
I was listening to an article on the radio yesterday about the severe shortage of referees in amateur football. Bloody Brexit.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 17, 2021 6:10:43 GMT
Now this does seem to be a story with a definite Brexit angle… ‘Stab in the back’: French fury as Australia scraps submarine dealI’m not commenting on the rights and wrongs of this deal, rather what it shows, or maybe symbolises, in geopolitics. Meaning Britain seeking new partnerships out-with Europe to the disadvantage of an EU member state. What happens next will be interesting. A tougher line on EU trade with the UK (it’s hard not to imagine the French looking for quick easy ways to “punish” their neighbour for this “stab in the back”) is quite possible. But, it could also be a driver to a greater effort for an EU approach to foreign and military affairs. After all, if one of the EU’s biggest members is seen to be impotent on the global stage as a nation state, something else is needed.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 17, 2021 6:56:11 GMT
Marks & Spencer blames Brexit as it closes 11 French stores As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise!
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 17, 2021 7:20:15 GMT
As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise! Oatcake Brexiteer couldn't give a shit!
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 17, 2021 8:19:50 GMT
As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise! Direct quote from Paul Friston, M&S' international director: " As things stand today, the supply chain complexities in place following the UK’s exit from the European Union, now make it near impossible for us to serve fresh and chilled products to customers to the high standards they expect, resulting in an ongoing impact to the performance of our business,".So how is it M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision? Or is the fresh and chilled products sold at those stores not to their high standards? Your post says " as it closes French store" which suggests all stores, not some French stores. The Guardian say: " M&S may close some French stores......."Does the world need to have sandwiches sold in one country to be made and shipped from another country? I imagine the tomato content has had a very long journey! I would suggest that the profit on the business is very small and logistics for shipping chilled food and delay for EU checks have tipped the balance. The only people who will really suffer are the French employees in the Paris shops I would suggest. Presumably M & S are unable to supply their stores from a local French producer and continue their business? Which is cheaper, buy produce produced locally and sell it, or shut the store and remove all the overheads? Other closures: www.thefijinews.net/news/270166213/after-closing-uk-ireland-stores-gap-might-close-french-storeswww.hebergementwebs.com/apple/containment-forces-apple-to-close-17-of-its-20-french-stores
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 17, 2021 10:08:21 GMT
As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise! Simplest way forward is that when companies say that a decision is nothing to do with Brexit then remainers do not argue otherwise, regardless of the suspicions with the industry (eg Honda at Swindon). Similarly when a company say a shortage/ decision is related to Brexit then Brexiters do not argue otherwise.
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Post by foster on Sept 17, 2021 10:33:00 GMT
As usual the headlines in anti Brexit media purvey one stark message, but when you look a little deeper into the facts all is not what it might first appear. Firstly, in the BBC article on the news it says: " One of the main problems Marks & Spencer was facing in France was post-Brexit bureaucracy, a spokesman said." So what are the other problems that M & S facing? Secondly M & S's partner, who operate the shops being closed, mainly operate Paris High Street shops. M & S have closed shops in France in the past and actually left the country in 2001, then reopened in Paris in 2011. I would suggest their profit margins were very slim, especially since the drop in business in high streets, and due to the pandemic, people working from home, people not "going to town" to shop, etc. We have seen a whole host of companies closing the high street outlets. And with the anti British mouthing of the French President in the last year or two I imagine a lot of people have been put off buying British. Thirdly, M & S's other French partner, Lagardere Travel Retail, who operate M&S stores in French airports, railway and Metro stations, are unaffected by this decision. That suggests to me the decision to close stores is not so much because of the difficulty in supplying, but more a decision based on the location of stores and their profitability. Fourthly, M & S are not operating French shops themselves but through a partnership which will reduce the financial return to M & S. I have no doubt the difficulty in supplying stores in France due to the EU importation rules* to protect EU business* will have contributed to the decision by M & S to close some of their stores. I am equally sure that there are other factors affecting the decision on which stores they have chosen to close. In May 2018 M & S announced plans to close plans to close 100 UK stores by 2022. In 2019 M&S announced that 25 UK food stores will close or relocate by April 2024, when it revised its plans to 120 clothing store closures by April 2024. Then the world changed due to the pandemic and the business took another hammering due to lockdowns, people not working in town centres due to working from home, which will continue to some degree, and people visiting town centres less. Having worked for the French for 7 years and having had a French boss in Paris, I visited innumerable times, I know it would not take much to persuade a French business to work from home! The strikes on the Metro being one reason. Is it the least bit surprising M & S have decided to close some of its French high street outlets? Is it the least bit surprising that Brexit is quoted as one of the reasons? Is it at all surprising the anti Brexit media use the opportunity to have banner headlines citing Brexit? * The root cause is the EU customs union that puts up a barrier to competition from outside the EU. That fosters inefficiency and slow growth. The EU implements over 13,000 tariffs on imported goods. Food prices vary enormously throughout the world but on average due to the protectionist CAP and importation rules, EU food prices are 15 to 20% higher than the rest of the world. It is only high prices that prompted M & S to ever open stores in France. Europe is now the second slowest growing continental economy in the world (Antarctica is slowest!). Thatcher warned Brussels in 1988 that praising free trade internally, while neglecting it externally, would be a huge mistake, when she said “ Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club”. Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise! Come on, you know he knows more than anyone else. Anyone who wastes so much time writing essays that no one reads must be in the know.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 17, 2021 10:53:31 GMT
Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise! Come on, you know he knows more than anyone else. Anyone who wastes so much time writing essays that no one reads must be in the know. True, but it's also quite entertaining watching someone who "backs up their posts with sources and facts" squirming to deny the same when the story isn't one that shows Brexit in a very good light!
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 17, 2021 11:44:18 GMT
Direct quote from M&S boss directly blames UK exit from EU for closure of French shops...Oatcake Brexiteer tries to claim otherwise! Simplest way forward is that when companies say that a decision is nothing to do with Brexit then remainers do not argue otherwise, regardless of the suspicions with the industry (eg Honda at Swindon). Similarly when a company say a shortage/ decision is related to Brexit then Brexiters do not argue otherwise. I have never denied that Brexit has or will cause problems. Anyone would realise that leaving the EU is bound to have problems. What I deny is that Brexit is the sole, or indeed in most cases even the main reason for problems. Most of the problems were already there and the pandemic plus Brexit has aggravated them. The main reason that Honda chose to move out of the UK is the EU - Japan trade deal, the high costs of production in Swindon, and it made a better "fit" for them to close that plant. Honda may have done the UK a favour! The 5,000 workers directed or indirectly affected in the supply chain are skilled and much needed in the rest of the economy. We have a record employment rise to pre pandemic and pre Brexit levels: www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-payrolled-employment-rises-by-record-241000-august-2021-09-14/We have over a million job vacancies. www.independent.co.uk/news/business/uk-job-vacancies-unemployment-covid-b1919644.htmlThe Honda site has been snapped up for £700 million development. www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/19189689.hondas-swindon-site-sold-new-owner-planning-700-million-investment/I actually believe car manufacturing will be less important in decades to come due to environmental pressures. If remainers had their way we would still be making carts for horses to pull. Society moves on, as those in the steel, mining, and other industries have found.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 17, 2021 12:37:50 GMT
Come on, you know he knows more than anyone else. Anyone who wastes so much time writing essays that no one reads must be in the know. True, but it's also quite entertaining watching someone who "backs up their posts with sources and facts" squirming to deny the same when the story isn't one that shows Brexit in a very good light! I have no reason the "squirm". I have never denied that leaving the EU would bring its problems for some people. It is remainers and the authors of "project fear" who are squirming and scratching around for any problem to be attributable to Brexit and still making false doom and gloom predictions. What happened to remainers prediction, on the economy, unemployment, house prices, recession, etc.? The value of the £ did dip slightly which actually bosted exports to record levels pre pandemic and has been very stable since Brexit. Inward investment did slow down in 2018 and 2019, but that was due to the impotent May government and those trying to frustrate Brexit, such as second referendum campaign, the Speaker's antics, and the Lords. As soon as Brexit was sorted venture capital investment has jumped to record levels, the highest in Europe. sifted.eu/articles/uk-record-tech-investment-2020/Truss has successfully rolled over all existing EU trade deals which remainers said the UK was too small and weak to do. All (bar 1, > 60 agreed) were done by the end of the transition period, so trade with RoW continued seamlessly bar pandemic issues. The Japan deal has improved terms, and Canada have agreed to negotiate an improved deal. Incidentally lots of EU countries have not ratified the EU - Canada trade deal terms. Canada will be as cheesed off with the EU as Australia are, who were cheesed off by the refusal to send vaccine at one point. Remainers said it would take up to a decade for the UK to negotiate new trade deals. We already have an Australian one, and more are in the pipeline. Truss has been determined to boost trade with the Pacific area where most world future GDP growth will take place. The government are predicting that by 2030, three of the four largest economies in the world will be in the Indo-Pacific region, with the region set to account for 56% of global GDP growth and 44% of global import demand growth over the next 30 years. India will be the largest population on the planet and its economy expanding rapidly. India does not do trade deals, but is now seeking a trade deal with the UK and Australia to act as a check on Chinese influence in the area and the rest of the world. No, it is remainers that are squirming.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 17, 2021 13:08:51 GMT
True, but it's also quite entertaining watching someone who "backs up their posts with sources and facts" squirming to deny the same when the story isn't one that shows Brexit in a very good light! Inward investment did slow down in 2018 and 2019, but that was due to the impotent May government and those trying to frustrate Brexit, such as second referendum campaign, the Speaker's antics, and the Lords. As soon as Brexit was sorted venture capital investment has jumped to record levels, the highest in Europe. sifted.eu/articles/uk-record-tech-investment-2020/It was explained on the radio a couple of weeks ago how inward investment in plant etc in the UK grew for 18 consecutive years but has fallen every year since 2016 (can't recall what happened then) . This is not to be confused with inward 'investment' with overseas companies coming in and buying up UK firms (such as, but excluding Morrisons) which is booming.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 17, 2021 13:21:18 GMT
Inward investment did slow down in 2018 and 2019, but that was due to the impotent May government and those trying to frustrate Brexit, such as second referendum campaign, the Speaker's antics, and the Lords. As soon as Brexit was sorted venture capital investment has jumped to record levels, the highest in Europe. sifted.eu/articles/uk-record-tech-investment-2020/It was explained on the radio a couple of weeks ago how inward investment in plant etc in the UK grew for 18 consecutive years but has fallen every year since 2016 (can't recall what happened then) . This is not to be confused with inward 'investment' with overseas companies coming in and buying up UK firms (such as, but excluding Morrisons) which is booming. You got a link for that. Not saying it’s not right. I’d like to have a read because it sounds interesting.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 17, 2021 13:33:36 GMT
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