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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 30, 2021 17:09:27 GMT
So in one post you're arguing for higher wages and the next we need to grant temporary working visas to ensure there's sufficient cheap labour , even in the longer term. You say cheap I say casual, certain roles in industries like hospitality for example bar staff / waiting staff have and always will rely on relatively low paid staff, 30+ years ago these were jobs fot students / sixth formers, gradually the free movement of labour resulted in these becoming careers for some people whilst wages and opportunities in better paid jobs like driving were driven down (no pun intended), 30+ years ago most companies had training schemes, apprentices etc again gradually these companies just started to recruit trained staff from anywhere in the EU cutting better paid opportunities and career paths for youngsters. So the current immigration policy paraded and trumpeted by Patel, Johnson et al is wrong, as you're saying we need to allow more people into the UK to work in eg hospitality....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 30, 2021 17:52:45 GMT
We've been exploiting cheap foreign labour for decades, you could use all the examples from foghornsgleghorn above, then add in the care sector amongst others and the question is who pays for all the increases? Because I'm absolutely all for it and have been championing it for as long as I can remember, but ultimately the people making the huge profits are the retailers, private care firms etc so they either need to reduce their margins considerably (and shareholder dividends, director bonuses etc) or we as consumers need to pay more. So as I say bring it on, but I think we may have the wrong government in power to champion any radical changes that are required........ There is no great will amongst the UK voting population to bring about the changes. Many of those saying they want high wages are the same ones who want to bin employment red tape and stand in the supermarket shaking their heads to see that the prices have gone up again. Exactly. The country wants fantastic public services without paying for them too. The same folk who believe we are already "taxed to the hilt".
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 30, 2021 19:22:52 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 30, 2021 19:31:22 GMT
As I've posted above, I don't believe the reason for a shortage of workers is primarily due to Brexit. I believe it is because of much lower immigration from non EU countries due to the pandemic. So as we come out of the Pandemic there will be lots of workers and , eg truck drivers' wages will fall again due to oversupply.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 30, 2021 19:35:33 GMT
As I've posted above, I don't believe the reason for a shortage of workers is primarily due to Brexit. I believe it is because of much lower immigration from non EU countries due to the pandemic. So as we come out of the Pandemic there will be lots of workers and , eg truck drivers' wages will fall again due to oversupply. Reverse logic does not always follow but you may be correct. A lot depends on the government's new immigration policy.
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 30, 2021 20:19:31 GMT
I'm loving the left leaning posters advocating cheap foreign labour and dismissing the suggestion that fruit pickers and hospitality staff should be paid a half decent wage...
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 30, 2021 20:39:25 GMT
I'm loving the left leaning posters advocating cheap foreign labour and dismissing the suggestion that fruit pickers and hospitality staff should be paid a half decent wage... Would you like to call out the left leaning posters by name who are advocating underpaying anyone?
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 30, 2021 20:58:15 GMT
I'm loving the left leaning posters advocating cheap foreign labour and dismissing the suggestion that fruit pickers and hospitality staff should be paid a half decent wage... Would you like to call out the left leaning posters by name who are advocating underpaying anyone? There are posters bemoaning Brexit because there aren't enough crop pickers, care workers and hospitality staff etc etc from the EU since Brexit. I don't have to call out posters by name, just scroll through the last 100 odd pages. I'm sure they don't really want to see underpaid EU labour but they can't help but contradict themselves in their attempt to prove that Brexit is a failure
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 30, 2021 21:16:13 GMT
Would you like to call out the left leaning posters by name who are advocating underpaying anyone? There are posters bemoaning Brexit because there aren't enough crop pickers, care workers and hospitality staff etc etc from the EU since Brexit. I don't have to call out posters by name, just scroll through the last 100 odd pages. I'm sure they don't really want to see underpaid EU labour but they can't help but contradict themselves in their attempt to prove that Brexit is a failure Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering".
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Post by numpty40 on Aug 30, 2021 21:26:33 GMT
There are posters bemoaning Brexit because there aren't enough crop pickers, care workers and hospitality staff etc etc from the EU since Brexit. I don't have to call out posters by name, just scroll through the last 100 odd pages. I'm sure they don't really want to see underpaid EU labour but they can't help but contradict themselves in their attempt to prove that Brexit is a failure Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". Whether you accept it or not, Covid has had a massive impact on not just the UK but the rest of the world. I think most Brexit voters accepted that there would be initial problems and these would take a while to iron out. However Covid was a massive global curve ball and it could even be argued that it has given the UK a little breathing space to put things in order for when the world fully opens up again!! Globally, individual nations are struggling, most far worse than the UK.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 30, 2021 21:30:51 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". Whether you accept it or not, Covid has had a massive impact on not just the UK but the rest of the world. I think most Brexit voters accepted that there would be initial problems and these would take a while to iron out. However Covid was a massive global curve ball and it could even be argued that it has given the UK a little breathing space to put things in order for when the world fully opens up again!! Globally, individual nations are struggling, most far worse than the UK. And whether you accept it or not Covid has provided a massive carpet under which to sweep uncomfortable Brexit fuck ups. For the time being at least.
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Post by Kilo on Aug 30, 2021 21:56:40 GMT
There are posters bemoaning Brexit because there aren't enough crop pickers, care workers and hospitality staff etc etc from the EU since Brexit. I don't have to call out posters by name, just scroll through the last 100 odd pages. I'm sure they don't really want to see underpaid EU labour but they can't help but contradict themselves in their attempt to prove that Brexit is a failure Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". It may have escaped your attention but virtually everyone expected the result to be remain as the government of the day spent £9m on leaflets telling us all how bad leaving would be. When they tried to put some backup plans in place just in case leave won, the media ripped them apart for needlessly spending cash.
If your issue is just with the lack of planning, you should head down to that London and join up with Captain Hindsight as he loves people like you.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 30, 2021 22:38:41 GMT
There are posters bemoaning Brexit because there aren't enough crop pickers, care workers and hospitality staff etc etc from the EU since Brexit. I don't have to call out posters by name, just scroll through the last 100 odd pages. I'm sure they don't really want to see underpaid EU labour but they can't help but contradict themselves in their attempt to prove that Brexit is a failure Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out.
My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". You may be correct about the economic aspects of Brexit, although personally I will be disappointed if there is not clear evidence that the country is not better off in 5 years. But in other respects Brexit is already a success. We are no longer subject to new EU laws and regulations and ever closer union, nor ECOJ decisions, or paying for the CAP, or the farce of a European Parliament jumping between Brussels and Strasbourg. We have avoided the EU Recovery Fund which will lead to fiscal union in the EU and commits countries like Italy to debt they have no possibility of ever paying off, or countries like Ireland and Sweden forced to bail out southern European states. You will be pleased to know that the British people can actually elect a left leaning government if it choses and it doesn't even need a majority of people to do it. Whatever the colour of government we elect, we can remove it at the next election. The UK is now free to set its own legislation (Northern Ireland excepted) and has already started to do so on things such as new trade deals, environmental legislation such as phasing out petrol and diesel new cars, a new agricultural policy to replace CAP, immigration law, etc. while the EU discuss such things. We may not all agree with each other on what those policies are but they will be by a British government elected by the British people. Who knows, we might even get Tony Blair back to lead us to war now he has no chance of being President of Europe which he had set his heart on.
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Post by 4372 on Aug 30, 2021 23:12:40 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out.
My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". You may be correct about the economic aspects of Brexit, although personally I will be disappointed if there is not clear evidence that the country is not better off in 5 years. But in other respects Brexit is already a success. We are no longer subject to new EU laws and regulations and ever closer union, nor ECOJ decisions, or paying for the CAP, or the farce of a European Parliament jumping between Brussels and Strasbourg. We have avoided the EU Recovery Fund which will lead to fiscal union in the EU and commits countries like Italy to debt they have no possibility of ever paying off, or countries like Ireland and Sweden forced to bail out southern European states. You will be pleased to know that the British people can actually elect a left leaning government if it choses and it doesn't even need a majority of people to do it. Whatever the colour of government we elect, we can remove it at the next election. The UK is now free to set its own legislation (Northern Ireland excepted) and has already started to do so on things such as new trade deals, environmental legislation such as phasing out petrol and diesel new cars, a new agricultural policy to replace CAP, immigration law, etc. while the EU discuss such things. We may not all agree with each other on what those policies are but they will be by a British government elected by the British people. Who knows, we might even get Tony Blair back to lead us to war now he has no chance of being President of Europe which he had set his heart on. Were the British people not able to elect a left leaning government when the UK was in the EU?
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Post by 4372 on Aug 30, 2021 23:34:54 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". It may have escaped your attention but virtually everyone expected the result to be remain as the government of the day spent £9m on leaflets telling us all how bad leaving would be. When they tried to put some backup plans in place just in case leave won, the media ripped them apart for needlessly spending cash. If your issue is just with the lack of planning, you should head down to that London and join up with Captain Hindsight as he loves people like you. Fail to plan = Plan to fail. Fairly Standard advice, but you think there should have been no planning for Brexit???????????
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Post by 4372 on Aug 30, 2021 23:42:46 GMT
I'm loving the left leaning posters advocating cheap foreign labour and dismissing the suggestion that fruit pickers and hospitality staff should be paid a half decent wage... I'm loving the right leaning posters advocating paying workers more and dismissing the suggestion that Brexit has got nothing to do with the current supply issues.
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Post by Kilo on Aug 31, 2021 0:17:49 GMT
It may have escaped your attention but virtually everyone expected the result to be remain as the government of the day spent £9m on leaflets telling us all how bad leaving would be. When they tried to put some backup plans in place just in case leave won, the media ripped them apart for needlessly spending cash. If your issue is just with the lack of planning, you should head down to that London and join up with Captain Hindsight as he loves people like you. Fail to plan = Plan to fail. Fairly Standard advice, but you think there should have been no planning for Brexit??????????? Where did I say that? You frequently argue against other posters either not understanding what they're saying or contradicting something they didn't say because you can''t disagree with what they actually said.
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Post by thevoid on Aug 31, 2021 5:35:46 GMT
You may be correct about the economic aspects of Brexit, although personally I will be disappointed if there is not clear evidence that the country is not better off in 5 years. But in other respects Brexit is already a success. We are no longer subject to new EU laws and regulations and ever closer union, nor ECOJ decisions, or paying for the CAP, or the farce of a European Parliament jumping between Brussels and Strasbourg. We have avoided the EU Recovery Fund which will lead to fiscal union in the EU and commits countries like Italy to debt they have no possibility of ever paying off, or countries like Ireland and Sweden forced to bail out southern European states. You will be pleased to know that the British people can actually elect a left leaning government if it choses and it doesn't even need a majority of people to do it. Whatever the colour of government we elect, we can remove it at the next election. The UK is now free to set its own legislation (Northern Ireland excepted) and has already started to do so on things such as new trade deals, environmental legislation such as phasing out petrol and diesel new cars, a new agricultural policy to replace CAP, immigration law, etc. while the EU discuss such things. We may not all agree with each other on what those policies are but they will be by a British government elected by the British people. Who knows, we might even get Tony Blair back to lead us to war now he has no chance of being President of Europe which he had set his heart on. Were the British people not able to elect a left leaning government when the UK was in the EU? Yes, they generally chose not to. Strange, that.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 31, 2021 6:46:05 GMT
There are posters bemoaning Brexit because there aren't enough crop pickers, care workers and hospitality staff etc etc from the EU since Brexit. I don't have to call out posters by name, just scroll through the last 100 odd pages. I'm sure they don't really want to see underpaid EU labour but they can't help but contradict themselves in their attempt to prove that Brexit is a failure Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". Most of the impetus for " Leave" came from outside Parliament. Parliament was a Remain Parliament. Many of the current career politicians , the decision makers, have only reluctantly accepted leave. Most are impotent leaders Most, they saw themselves as implementers of the decision makers in Brussels, regional civil servants. Most of their efforts post 2016 had been to theart Brexit, not to plan the future. Brexit wasn't about deals. The left missed the boat completely in respect of Brexit.weve had 40 years of the acceptance of and collusion with ever closer political and economic union. It will take a generation of new politicians to recognise and grow into their responsibilities as an independent country.
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Post by dutchstokie on Aug 31, 2021 7:03:30 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". Most of the impetus for " Leave" came from outside Parliament. Parliament was a Remain Parliament. Many of the current career politicians , the decision makers, have only reluctantly accepted leave. Most are impotent leaders Most, they saw themselves as implementers of the decision makers in Brussels, regional civil servants. Most of their efforts post 2016 had been to theart Brexit, not to plan the future. Brexit wasn't about deals. The left missed the boat completely in respect of Brexit.weve had 40 years of the acceptance of and collusion with ever closer political and economic union. It will take a generation of new politicians to recognise and grow into their responsibilities as an independent country. Very valid points and with one caveat: that being the last line of your post - Instead of growing into their responsibilities, actually TAKING responsibility and sticking their heads up above the parapet. If it goes wrong then be honest and bold enough to put your hand up. Right now its just mud slinging and point scoring and childish actions. All the poiliticians are a fuckin joke right now if we're being honest - on ALL sides.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 31, 2021 8:51:12 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out.
My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". You may be correct about the economic aspects of Brexit, although personally I will be disappointed if there is not clear evidence that the country is not better off in 5 years. But in other respects Brexit is already a success. We are no longer subject to new EU laws and regulations and ever closer union, nor ECOJ decisions, or paying for the CAP, or the farce of a European Parliament jumping between Brussels and Strasbourg. We have avoided the EU Recovery Fund which will lead to fiscal union in the EU and commits countries like Italy to debt they have no possibility of ever paying off, or countries like Ireland and Sweden forced to bail out southern European states. You will be pleased to know that the British people can actually elect a left leaning government if it choses and it doesn't even need a majority of people to do it. Whatever the colour of government we elect, we can remove it at the next election. The UK is now free to set its own legislation (Northern Ireland excepted) and has already started to do so on things such as new trade deals, environmental legislation such as phasing out petrol and diesel new cars, a new agricultural policy to replace CAP, immigration law, etc. while the EU discuss such things. We may not all agree with each other on what those policies are but they will be by a British government elected by the British people. Who knows, we might even get Tony Blair back to lead us to war now he has no chance of being President of Europe which he had set his heart on. Very good MrCoke - an opportunity to repeat yourself with another anti EU rant will never be missed but when asked for practical solution to skilled labour shortages with will have some necessary effect in the short term that doesn't involve visas the silence is deafening
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 31, 2021 8:56:37 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". It may have escaped your attention but virtually everyone expected the result to be remain as the government of the day spent £9m on leaflets telling us all how bad leaving would be. When they tried to put some backup plans in place just in case leave won, the media ripped them apart for needlessly spending cash. If your issue is just with the lack of planning, you should head down to that London and join up with Captain Hindsight as he loves people like you. So what you are saying is that in campaigning for Leave those doing so had no clue as to how they it should be implemented and had undertaken no risk assessments as to the disruptive consequences but were happy to shout 'scaremomgering' at those who had? Whilst the media - who were predominantly Leave undermined any Leave effort to address this. And all of that is Remain's fault? Right you are.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 31, 2021 9:07:28 GMT
Well I'm a left leaning poster and I voted remain - as to whether or not Brexit is a failure it's probably going to be 10-20 years before we find out. My issue is not the success of Brexit or otherwise but the lack of planning on the part of those wishing to leave. It's not just about pay rates - you could offer £50 an hour for HGV drivers starting tomorrow and there still wouldn't be enough to go round now our EU friends have gone home. But when we mentioed this as a note of caution to the No Deal mob it was just 'scaremongering". Most of the impetus for " Leave" came from outside Parliament. Parliament was a Remain Parliament. Many of the current career politicians , the decision makers, have only reluctantly accepted leave. Most are impotent leaders Most, they saw themselves as implementers of the decision makers in Brussels, regional civil servants. Most of their efforts post 2016 had been to theart Brexit, not to plan the future. Brexit wasn't about deals. The left missed the boat completely in respect of Brexit.weve had 40 years of the acceptance of and collusion with ever closer political and economic union. It will take a generation of new politicians to recognise and grow into their responsibilities as an independent country. Which is probably true - I have little faith in politicians of either colour to fully grasp the workings of industry - there are too many that queue up to open their mouths and show they clearly don't. However that does not diminish the propensity of Leave campaigners both in and out of parliament to dismiss - often out of hand - cautions raised by industry bodies as to the potential disruptive effects and in doing so play down the need for any contingencies. In my opinion the majority of prominent Leavers were dogmatic rather than pragmatic.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 31, 2021 9:34:30 GMT
Most of the impetus for " Leave" came from outside Parliament. Parliament was a Remain Parliament. Many of the current career politicians , the decision makers, have only reluctantly accepted leave. Most are impotent leaders Most, they saw themselves as implementers of the decision makers in Brussels, regional civil servants. Most of their efforts post 2016 had been to theart Brexit, not to plan the future. Brexit wasn't about deals. The left missed the boat completely in respect of Brexit.weve had 40 years of the acceptance of and collusion with ever closer political and economic union. It will take a generation of new politicians to recognise and grow into their responsibilities as an independent country. Which is probably true - I have little faith in politicians of either colour to fully grasp the workings of industry - there are too many that queue up to open their mouths and show they clearly don't. However that does not diminish the propensity of Leave campaigners both in and out of parliament to dismiss - often out of hand - cautions raised by industry bodies as to the potential disruptive effects and in doing so play down the need for any contingencies. In my opinion the majority of prominent Leavers were dogmatic rather than pragmatic. The left never grasped , or gave a decisive opinion on " ever closer political and economic union"....the very purpose of the EU. A United States of Europe. That's what the referendum was about. Everything since is down to the government that we elect, not a Remain or Leave government, but a UK government. The Left have simply become irrelevant , self righteous moaners from the sidelines, with very little positive or any leadership to offer, partly due to the realisation that they indeed have become irrelevant, particularly to their own traditional core support....and much of that is due to their political ineptitude around Brexit and internal infighting on important issues, but not important to the electorate to whom they hopeto appeal.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 31, 2021 9:35:21 GMT
It may have escaped your attention but virtually everyone expected the result to be remain as the government of the day spent £9m on leaflets telling us all how bad leaving would be. When they tried to put some backup plans in place just in case leave won, the media ripped them apart for needlessly spending cash. If your issue is just with the lack of planning, you should head down to that London and join up with Captain Hindsight as he loves people like you. So what you are saying is that in campaigning for Leave those doing so had no clue as to how they it should be implemented and had undertaken no risk assessments as to the disruptive consequences but were happy to shout 'scaremomgering' at those who had? Whilst the media - who were predominantly Leave undermined any Leave effort to address this. And all of that is Remain's fault? Right you are. Which media was predominately leave during the referendum
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 31, 2021 9:39:44 GMT
So what you are saying is that in campaigning for Leave those doing so had no clue as to how they it should be implemented and had undertaken no risk assessments as to the disruptive consequences but were happy to shout 'scaremomgering' at those who had? Whilst the media - who were predominantly Leave undermined any Leave effort to address this. And all of that is Remain's fault? Right you are. Which media was predominately leave during the referendum Don't embarrass yourself now.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 31, 2021 9:53:42 GMT
So what you are saying is that in campaigning for Leave those doing so had no clue as to how they it should be implemented and had undertaken no risk assessments as to the disruptive consequences but were happy to shout 'scaremomgering' at those who had? Whilst the media - who were predominantly Leave undermined any Leave effort to address this. And all of that is Remain's fault? Right you are. Which media was predominately leave during the referendum Give over.
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 31, 2021 9:55:09 GMT
Which media was predominately leave during the referendum Don't embarrass yourself now. Well I hardly remember any of the mainstream television media being any other that pro remain The times Financial Times Daily mirror Independent &i Guardian All went remain Telegraph Sun Mail Went leave Express ? Star were still talking about the weather Hardly a predominant leave position
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 31, 2021 10:03:13 GMT
Which is probably true - I have little faith in politicians of either colour to fully grasp the workings of industry - there are too many that queue up to open their mouths and show they clearly don't. However that does not diminish the propensity of Leave campaigners both in and out of parliament to dismiss - often out of hand - cautions raised by industry bodies as to the potential disruptive effects and in doing so play down the need for any contingencies. In my opinion the majority of prominent Leavers were dogmatic rather than pragmatic. The left never grasped , or gave a decisive opinion on " ever closer political and economic union"....the very purpose of the EU. A United States of Europe. That's what the referendum was about. Everything since is down to the government that we elect, not a Remain or Leave government, but a UK government. The Left have simply become irrelevant , self righteous moaners from the sidelines, with very little positive or any leadership to offer, partly due to the realisation that they indeed have become irrelevant, particularly to their own traditional core support....and much of that is due to their political ineptitude around Brexit and internal infighting on important issues, but not important to the electorate to whom they hopeto appeal. Which is actually a critique of the Labour Party rather than 'the left'. However the referendum never was about left and right - and during both the referendum and the exit from the EU neither the Labour party nor 'the left' were in power - the main advocate of Remain being the then Tory Prime Minister and Chancellor.. And whilst they (the left) may have missed an opportunity I'm not sure that's relavent to the outcome or the problems we're talking about now In short I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Aug 31, 2021 10:11:37 GMT
Don't embarrass yourself now. Well I hardly remember any of the mainstream television media being any other that pro remain The times Financial Times Daily mirror Independent &i Guardian All went remain Telegraph Sun Mail Went leave Express ? Star were still talking about the weather Hardly a predominant leave position See you know what happens now, and I hate that you make me do it over and over especially when it's all going so well. Here is the analysis from Loughborough University and their Research Centre in Communication and Culture. 👇 blog.lboro.ac.uk/crcc/eu-referendum/sun-no-longer-hedging-bets-brexit/Comparing Guardian readership to that of the Mail is yet another false equivalence, as was Lammy/Leadsome discussing WTO. Print media with Leave intentions had a reach of <80%. We can now all get back to enjoying our sovereignty and project here.
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